Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well I will be selling cypher model when I get the models. Never a fan of a traitor.

Vorian wrote:
I'll take it off your hands! Hess the only thing I want from it

I will actually take you up on that if it is a 3 pack. I plan on preordering the kit for the grey knight and guilleman anyways.

 Gremore wrote:
Maybe it's because I have no interest in the models or rules presented, but Im really curious about what the fluff reasoning will be for Guiliman's return. I know we've been building up this whole "he's healing in stasis" deus ex for as long as the fluff has existed, but is it going to be as simple as like "hey your primarch hot-pocket is done cookin', let em' out" or will there be something more to it?

Smart approach would be something questionable to keep this going theme of creating inter-factional tensions.

They can use another magic ball to fix him like it fixed vulkans head/brains.

Also didn't they say the orb is what made vulkan immortal .

I am confused why it is gilliman he is the biggest idiot around he has been trying to take over for years.

Loses contact with terra makes a new kingdom, he never helps defend terra. When he losses most of his guys, Robute only has 1000 marines left so he decides everyone else should be the same because it is super not fair for them to have more.

Almost starts a second heresy when people don't do what he wants. Ya he is really the best suited to help save everyone...... the one who took a hissy fit when's horus it in charge. Took 10000 years but he got what he wanted.

 Motograter wrote:

Sheck2 wrote:
Who are the RED Dark Angels behind Cypher?

 Rippy wrote:
Higher res image

Spoiler:

Those are the fallen. Think 13th co. They'd "borrow" armour.

As for this release yet more imperium, really gw. In a release about cadia falling you'd think at least one chaos release but no we get imperial releases. Gaw going to show further disdain to chaos

If I said it once I said it 1000 times gw has been working on minimizing evil guys for years. In aos they are litterally a joke. Chaos marines are the worse army ever made, along with orks. They are there to show how good other armies are. Space marine bob a new guy we are throwing out for you to buy killed a bajillion orks alone then spanked a chaos lord.

If you want models play the good guys. Or good rules.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...

Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?

I sooo hope the answer is NO.

I think the anwser is they are all being merged with imperal of man. Hell even the black templar are homies with them.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...

Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?

I sooo hope the answer is NO.

Short answer: NO.

Long answer: Eldar are going to get further divided. We had the traditional 5 factions (corsairs,craftworlds, dark, exodites, and harlequins) and now this new group, the Ynnari, is a shcism that is happening right now in the three main groups. So no, no merging, further division more like.

wrong answer: That's only supposition and we simply don,t know

There, done for you. Since we DO know the eldar are going to be further separated, with the Haemonculous Covens spearheading the opposition in Commorragh, and at least a whole craftworld (plus groups in others) opposing the Ynnari. Plus quite a few groups of harlequins. This is old news and we've known it for a while that they'd be, for all intents and purposes, a different faction.

@Lightningking. My supposition (and thus take it with salt) will be that he's going to be like Vulkan in the Beast Arises. It will seem he'd be able to solve the problem but ultimately it won't be the case. He'll do a few changes here and there but he won't be around long enough to have a proper and lasting impact. People will make (in and out of universe) a big fuss over him but it will turn to be hot air. Of course, it's just my opinion and guess, so I am likely to be wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...

Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?

I sooo hope the answer is NO.

I think the anwser is they are all being merged with imperal of man. Hell even the black templar are homies with them.

I think a serious answer was what he was looking for. And really, did they share enough screen time during FoC as us being able to say: they are homies with them, even as a joke? I think they didn't.

guy in red eldar or eldar god thingy.

opps forgot their new name. Alalala-eldar

LightKing wrote:
I highly doubt Guilliman will have the same miniscule effect Vulkan had

no disrespect to Vulkan, but Roboute is a administrative genius, he was the whole reason the Imperium survived after the Heresy

I always thought gilliman was a traitor.

He did

started a new empire when he lost contact with terra
Didn't help during the siege of terra screw your home world the betterment of the galaxy all that matters.
After he came when the fighting was over and had a 1000 marines left he threw a tantrum and almost started a second war because he wanted everyone to be the same as him.
Then he refused to back down to the point his brothers said fine you whiny baby have your way.

He literally did nothing but emo threw a crusade.

Only people who did anything was dorn and saguin.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:

LightKing wrote:
I highly doubt Guilliman will have the same miniscule effect Vulkan had

no disrespect to Vulkan, but Roboute is a administrative genius, he was the whole reason the Imperium survived after the Heresy

I always thought gilliman was a traitor.

He did

started a new empire when he lost contact with terra
Didn't help during the siege of terra screw your home world the betterment of the galaxy all that matters.
After he came when the fighting was over and had a 1000 marines left he threw a tantrum and almost started a second war because he wanted everyone to be the same as him.
Then he refused to back down to the point his brothers said fine you whiny baby have your way.

He literally did nothing but emo threw a crusade.

Only people who did anything was dorn and saguin.

Not sure if trolling, but that's not what happened.

Ya it is

In the un remembered empire. He tried to make his own empire til sag came in then he said he guess he can be in charge.
After word bearers attacked he never showed up at terra he stayed home unlike the lion.
In the space marine codex "the last one forget the edition" it said guilman imposed the codex astres, many of his brothers disagreed with it. Then with neither side backing down, which almost cost a second war. Until dorn finally agreed then the white scars followed suit.

oh here is the story

Rogal Dorn initially rejected the Codex Astartes and enmity developed between him and Guilliman. Dorn called Guilliman a coward, citing his lack of participation in the defense of the Imperial Palace. Guilliman accused Dorn of being a traitor for refusing the Codex. This enmity quickly involved other Space Marine Legions and a rift developed, Leman Russ of the Space Wolves stood by the Imperial Fists, while Jaghatai Khan of the White Scars and Corax of the Raven Guard supported the Ultramarines. A second civil war appeared likely when the Imperial Fists strike cruiser Terrible Angel was fired upon by the Imperial Navy in connection with Codex crisis.[7]
However, Dorn ultimately relented after spending seven days meditating in the pain glove. There, he concluded that the Legion could no longer serve the Emperor who had been and must serve the Emperor who was, which involved accepting the new order of which the Codex was a part.[8] Secretly however Dorn formulated his own protocol to possibly circumvent the Codex Astartes known as the Last Wall.[14] The Space Wolves Legion, however, never fully accepted the new doctrine. Rather they held sacred the teachings of their Primarch. One of the few ideals the Codex implemented that the Space Wolves Legion actually followed was the succession of Chapters. However, the Space Wolves Legion was never very large. That combined with the genetic instability of the legion gene-seed lead to the Legion only founding one successor Chapter, the ill-fated Wolfbrothers.

Guilman I KNOW BEST OBEY OR YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO MY KINGDOM!!!!

from the unremembered empire

The unthinkable has happened – Terra has fallen to the traitor forces of Warmaster Horus! Nothing else could explain the sudden disappearance of the Astronomican's guiding light at the heart of the Imperium, or so Roboute Guilliman would believe. Ever the pragmatist, he has drawn all his forces to Ultramar and begun construction of the new empire known as Imperium Secundus. Even with many of his primarch brothers at his side, he still faces war from without and intrigue from within – with the best of intentions, were the full truth to be known it would likely damn them all as traitors for all eternity


And why he never showed

After seeing off the Shadow Crusade, Guilliman decided that if his father could not be saved, His ideals would be, setting up a new government called Imperium Secundus, a second Imperium of Man which would reject Horus's alliance with Chaos. Although potentially traitorous, Guilliman's motives at least appeared sincere, he made a big hoohah about not taking the throne himself, since he would look like a Tyrant if he did. Fortunately/Unfortunately, The Lion arrived at Macragge and didn't like where it was heading. Neither brother trusted the other with the job of ruling the next Imperium, so Sanguinius got the job only to settle the matter between the two and was declared regent of the Imperium in the Emperor's absence, which meant feth all because he promptly got murdered by Horus in the battle of Terra.

Last paragraph came from lexium so grain of salt but how did the blood angles make it and dark angles yet gilly wasnt going to try?

Joyboozer wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I don't know if this has been seen already, but I thought it was worth posting.

That "thier" killed me. My eyes are still sore as all hell. Still, tbh, Guilliman doesn't really fit the AoS aesthethics, rather he fits more the CSM aesthetics.

Just look at DV's chosen and chaos lord: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Dark-Vengeance-EN?_requestid=23353299 switch skulls/flesh for more filigrane and you get a carbon copy of Guilliman's design.

Massive, oversized armour and huge characters aren't the trademark of AoS? Really?

So this is reasonably sized?

https://1d4chan.org/images/d/dd/Blingmarine.jpg

https://1d4chan.org/images/0/09/Iron_Snakes_1.jpg

Whow didn't know pauldrons (don't get me started on the powerfists or legs) should block someone's line of sight, now I'm more relieved that 40k has always had sensible looking armor in both artwork and sculpts!

You realise those aren't actual miniatures?

Plus whats wrong with the second one....

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:
I'd love to see a side by side of the Forge World and GW versions, and a regular marine.

Also throw in the 54mm version of Artemis from the old inquisitor range.

I never felt the forge world versions were that much bigger, maybe a normal marine comes up to their shoulders. But GW guilliman seems to be at least twice the height.
I know the forge world bases add a lot of height, but that works. It helps them stand out on the table without throwing the proportions into stupid territory.

Nah, FW Primarchs are absurdly large too (based on various pictures, I'd say at least five cm tall without a base.) I really don't like them either, as on tabletop they just look like someone put a wrong scale miniature on the table. And they make the normal marines look like hobbits. It is not same with various monsters and dreadnoughts, as those are not just upscaled marines. The new Custodes models are about the size I think would have been good for the primarchs. Obviously larger than normal marines, but not absurdly so. They could use same vehicles, furniture, weapons, etc.

FW Primarchs are the right size relative to human models, it's Space Marine miniatures that are too small. Scale them up to a more appropriate 40mm-ish(38mm-ish if you're a strict "all SM are exactly 7' tall in armour and not one single nanometre taller!" sort) and everything looks roughly appropriate given the fluff. Primarchs aren't supposed to use the same vehicles, furniature, weapons etc, they're genetically and psychically engineered demigods and even the smallest can only barely pass for a freakishly tall Marine(so what, a minimum of 8.5-9' tall?). Russ uses a modified Legionary bolter as a pistol.

Plastic Rowboat, as with everything else in the GW studio these days, takes the concept and ramps it up to the point of unintentional self-parody, but I'm sure they'll have some "his body is basically a dread" or somesuch as an excuse for his embiggening.

Ya I am thinking gillyman is about 12-14 feet tall. He may be able to wrestle a avatar or wraith knight.

SeanDrake wrote:
I know ward retconned/ignored quite a bit of Black Templar lore.

However given how Dorn was blackmailed into breaking up his legion and his distrust of Curly Sue's actual motivations for doing it.

I always thought when he took sigmusund aside to have a word with him to stop the 1st company from kicking the smurfs cowardly asses. He told them to stay fleet bound build up towards legion size and Kurb Stomp the smurfs and curly sue when they make there grab for power and this was the secret/instruction the New high Marshal gets.

haha a man after my own heart dorm should of slapped around gilliman with the wolfs help.

Chikout wrote:
OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.

Spoiler:

After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.

Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.

there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.

Why would gillyman show up to help terra, he didn't bother the first time.

 ImAGeek wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:

Chikout wrote:
OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.

Spoiler:

After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.

Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.

there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.

Why would gillyman show up to help terra, he didn't bother the first time.

Is there an eye roll emoji?

I wish.... I wish he is the only and I mean only primarch I actually hate. Selfish ignorant self cannonizing. Didn't help save the Galaxy but made the rules when it was saved. God I hate him and his coward swarm legions.

I may be wrong in this but, I thought there was no new gene seeds being made so how did the ultramarine become like 2/3 the overall marines? Everyone else is trying to keep it pure and maintain what they got (which this may be from a older edition but) I remember them saying there is no gene seeds being made so any that is lost is tragic event. that's why the apoth gather them so feverly and if it is lost that's 1 less marine.

 Skylifter1000 wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:

Chikout wrote:
OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.

Spoiler:

After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.

Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.

there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.

Why would gillyman show up to help terra, he didn't bother the first time.

Is there an eye roll emoji?

I wish.... I wish he is the only and I mean only primarch I actually hate. Selfish ignorant self cannonizing. Didn't help save the Galaxy but made the rules when it was saved. God I hate him and his coward swarm legions.

Maybe you could stop hating him if you accepted some of the stories about him which show him as a benevolent tactically minded master of warcraft. Most stories about him actually do that.

Hating is not good for yourself, and in the end, it is a fictional universe. I get being passionate about it, I sometimes am, too, but if it hurts you so much, maybe you should try being a tad less passionate.

It doesn't hurt me to hate him I just hate him lol. Then my Scottish blood kicks in and people needs to see why I hate him. But at the end of the day I could care less if he not a demon primarch or dorn he is usless to me........ Poor dorm the Galaxy should of been yours my friend.

Btw less other primarchs more dorn hell they are doubling up on primarchs and I still don't have dorn.

SeanDrake wrote:
Magnus was less of a traitor than Girlyman. In fact until they retcon even more of it the only time girlyman and the UM nearly start a fight is against Dorn,Russ and Vulkan.

Turned Traitor and founded his own imperium at earliest opportunity after Horus rebels - Check

Tried talking other loyalists from heading to Terra - check

Did not turn up to Terra until after battle was finished - check

Threw a hissy fit when Russ called him out for hiding and then demanded the break up of all other legions all most causing another civil war - check

ensured that when his legion was broken up that they were all still subservient to Ultra's and as close to macrage as possible - check

Made sure he was named as a permanent member of the high lords of terra - check

Ensured that most new chapters founded were from UM geneseed - check




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

LightKing wrote:
People say Roboute is a genius

what are exactly his skills in that makes him a genius?

Have you seen the 500 Worlds of Macragge? He managed to get things arranged, pre-reunification to be pretty much the Emperor's ideal for humanity.

Betrayal at Calth? Caught completely with his pants down, struck from a corner he couldn't possibly have predicated at the time - still wiped the floor with his foe as soon as he got a bit of organisation going.

As for the other poster, and Guilliman 'not bothering' to turn up? Someone needs to read up on the Ruinstorm. What it was. Why it was. Here's a hint - the best way to stop the Ultramarine Legion deploying in strength.

Second Founding? A calculated risk. Arguably weaken the whole (no real overall commander for the most part), but preventing betrayal on the scale of the Heresy from ever happening again.

Seriously. Read the sodding background!

I did 2 decades ago sadly since then Girlyman has been getting crowbarred in evermore

Finally someone else who read the fluff about the near heretic emo coward gillyman. I never seen any fluff of him being anything other then that.

 Crimson wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

I looked more at the pic and saw Calagar next to RG and wondered how those gauntlets used to fit RG. I know they had been taken off a chaos warrior at some point, but I thought that RG had worn them in the past as well. Maybe they just sat in a display case in his hall of trophies.

There are other previously primarch-owned items that have the similar issue. The answer is of course that the primarchs originally weren't mean to be this big. It was the BL which (one again) fethed up the fluff.

I think the problem is space marines higth more then the primarchs.

Space marines should be 7 ish feet tall. They are on scale with the average 6 foot guardsman. That's loss of a foot, the Knights are like 16 feet arnt they? But they shrunk to about 12.

So when a primarch is 8-9 feet tall it throws everything off. They never did a ratio scale just a what looks good scale. Only way to fix it is make everything say 1/9th scale or similar. The way GW does it make them look good doesn't work well.

Tanks are like a 1/12 scale
Marines 1/10
Guards 1/9
Primarchs 1/4

Screws the wolrd up.
Seriously why did auto correct make a extra s turn into( is )and hem into (me) and a doesnt with out the ' turn into( does she not)

 Elbows wrote:
New 40K Special Rule?

I Opine All the Things (IOATT) +5 Pts.

Once per turn your model may criticize the sculpting work on one enemy unit within 8". The targeted unit must immediately make a Leadership test or it is thrown in the trash.

PS: I stand by my harsh criticism of the Gullyman figure, and it is not without basis. As you said...it's an opinion. I did not state it was fact (quite the opposite). I never stated anyone had to deliver their opinion nicely or with flowery words. If I believe the figure to look like garbage, then so be it. If it just has a weird helmet or shoulder pad...then I'd say so. I'm not here to concern myself with how someone takes my opinion.

Stating your opnion does actually concer you or you would never of gave one you want people to know how you feel or you would of said nothing but to yourself. So do not try to moral high ground people.

But the gillyman model is bad main reasons being

Too big WAY to big, he could of used the land raider as a seat to get to the battle.
His legs connect to his sides like a lizard not like a mammal
He is for some reason trying to do the splits.
His weist is turned to a un-natural angle as tho his weist was like a owls neck it just twirls on the spot.
His head looks swollen the features are off.
His fire sword while in ideal is cool is pointless, having a sword that can heat up to help the cutting edge cool. A sword that is set on fire blinds you while you swing it.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?

Because the guys next to the emperor are custodes (specifically their devastator equivalents).

Not only that, check out the "CSM" next to Horus. He barely reaches his waist.

Not sure why this is directed at me, though.

It isn't, I'm quoting you AND adding another proof of the Primarch's height sorry for the confusion

that csm is in the distance that's why they gave him a fade out effect. The custodian standing next to the emperor is on the same bearing tho.


Also anyone else find it weird that they are called custodians and he ends up on the golden throne?

I thought for sure the primarch would be Russ coming back to crack Magnus over his knee again. To bad it was gilly

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Do we start now our own Version of 40k or should we jump to WP FireFight?

It's naftka we are talking about. I bet anyone ten euros that this is a troll post.

it is not funny anymore, because the same was said after round bases for fantasy were announced

actually I don't really care if it is true, 8th won't getting better and I will skip it anyway
question is just, if GW kill it instandly there is a chance to make a fan based rule set, if they do it not WP is the only alternative

So you've seen 8th edition already? Please tell us what changes are in it.

Bad ones only bad things can come from the future. The past was always better lol

When ever you join tends to be close to if not exactly perfect. Then as things move farther away from said time frame things get worse for you. So no matter what changes atleast 50% will be pissed.

Do not quote me here but isn't it confirmed it is a three part trilogy. Not gathering storm 1/2/3 only but like.

Gathering storm 1/2/3 , series two 1/2/3, series three 1/2/3

I thought that was mentioned but I may be off, think it was mentioned long ago in this topic. One was the gathering, one was the approach one was the ending or close to kinda like a rebirth.

Firefox1 wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

Firefox1 wrote:


I for one love to see an end of the situation of the Imperium, i really hate that stupid church-setting.

That "stupid church-setting" you're referring to is called Gothic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_art

E.g., the point being it's meant to be high medieval, to evoke feelings of the Dark Ages.

By "stupid church-setting" i meant that tech isn´t seen as such but as wondrous artifacts.
Putting sigils on Power armor and other "relics", chanting while doing weapon maintance...
Tech should be seen as what it is, lifeless, soulless tools.
Simply an enlightenend Imperium as it was meant by the Emperor.

I do think even with that and maybe an "alliance" with the eldar, the enemies of Mankind are many, especially now with chaos forces having swept cadia away, the setting would far away from being Star Trek-like.

They are preying for a reason a necron God forget their true names think he was dragon something lives in the heart of Mars. They prey to the meachines God which they may get their tech from him.

Altho when necron became space tomb kings they may have changed it. There was a story of a assassin from the emperium going to attack a traitor government official she snuck in pulled her cyber weapon thing lunged at him. He grabbed her by the throat and said do you not love when your children come home with a gift and then absorbed her blade and killed her. So old lore had some marine tech necron made or inspired atleast.