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O_O

>_>

I choose...

1234

<_<

You fool! 13! 13!

The latest two (well, arguably 3) Eldar Previews:

Again, remember it's not the finished thing yet, but it is getting there...

Anyways, enjoy! As ever, all feedback is welcome.

Seems very good. Can't wait to show the finished product to my Eldar playing friend so we can pit Dave against Dave.

Yay! You gave Scorpions the webway upgrades too. Now I'm really curious as to what exactly those will do

Though, no crystal targeting matrix on the tanks?

Haha! Cheers guys!

Don't worry Amanax, you'll find out soon enough.
And no, there's not a Crystal targetting matrix for tanks per se...*

*this may be 'controversial' though.

When do you think you can post your eldar FanDex? You seem to have most off it fixed. *crosses fingers*

Oh yeah, it's almost entirely finished. 99% of the army list is done, I've done most of the wargear etc. I've got to add special rules and equipment, but it should be done by December I hope.

Yay!

I have created a thread (here) for my Eldar Codex.
The Codex itself is not posted yet; for now they're just previews, so for those that have been keeping track it's nothing new.
However, it is confirmation that it is coming. Soon.
Which coincidentally, is what she said.

But hey, don't forget about this one either, eh?

Thanks, Dave.

Commentary to your Fandex

Before beginning I wanted to congratulate with you for your work and for the simplicity with which you have gone beyond to the last Codex, that was, still playable, but too much simple and sometimes out of BG. The edition 3.5 rules you have bought again in, by changing Army Choices, Equipment and Overall Army Rules, in only 59 pages give you the opportunity to represent and play all the Traitor\Renegade Legions\Forces, and to characterize them not only by painting but by rules, and in consequence of this, in style of play an overall strategies. So, again, compliments!
Of course there are some points I would like to discuss with you, because sometimes, writing a Fandex, the situation can slip off your hands and some units become too much powerful or unbalanced or simply out of BG. But, I repeat, should GW use your Codex as new CSM Codex, I would buy it immediately!!!
So here we go!

ICONS
Icon of the Black Legion: maybe you should choose one Veteran Skill only and for the entire battle, representing the Warlord choosing the most appropriate Veterans for the task.

Icon of the Iron Warriors: BS 5 bonus will still be good, counting that a Basilisk has a BS of 3 only!

Icon of the Nightlords: another idea for the Nightlord could be to give to Fast Attack choices Hit and Run USR.

Icon of the Renegade: I suggest only D3+1 Units should gain Scout USR, maybe stating that also their dedicated transports gain it.

Icon of the Death Guard: only 5+ Cover Save and still counting in Cover.

Icon of the Emperors Children: Fleet and Furious Charge together are a bit redundant, counting also that Slaneesh Marked models have +1 Initiative. So I suggest you to give them Fleet only.

UNITS
Special & Unique Characters: I think you made a great work here, not changing them too much and giving more Background flavor to them, like the Justaerin Spearhead for Abaddon, Icon of the Renegade for Huron, or the Duellist rule for Lucius. Also I liked very much the idea of Fabius Bile as an Elite choice and not HQ: this represents Fabius offering his allegiance and not being interested in command, very good!

Daemon Prince: even though fascinating, most of the opponent will oppose to your Fandex if you want to give a Daemon Weapon to a Daemon Prince. This could happen on the 1st Edition Realm of Chaos and The Lost and the Damned but it was a case (with the exception of the Bloodthirster, that had a Daemon Wp with another Bloodthirster inside it, and another, and another…) given by the D1000 roll table. I think that you did the most important thing by giving a brief selections of Gifts and special Mark traits to characterize more the Daemon Prince.

Chaos Terminators: maybe you should discard the option of giving them Daemonic Speed, which is really against their bulky nature. But very good the Stubborn USR!!!

Chaos Dreadnought: I too think that the Fire Frenzy rule (I mean the risk of you Dreddy firing twice on your units) adds an unpredictable taste to this unit. But this I Chaos! So I think the Dreadnought should still had this risk.

Chaos Dreadnought Magnate: maybe it is too much for it to ignore the first penetration each turn. It should be once per battle, maybe for 2 hits, one Penetrating and one Glancing.

Sorcerers Warcoven: why WS 5? Maybe BS 5, but even that I think that this Unit should be treated as a single Psyker, like the Grey Knights. So you may modify the models’ cost and the Psi-Power costs, and give the chance to still choose one power per model but giving the chance to cast only one-two (as they are marked by Tzeentch) per turn.

Plague Marines: by reading the BG and Apocalipse Heresy Data Sheets I think that was peculiar of this Legion to have 20 men squad, so I think this limit should be kept.

Berserkers: discard Counter-Attack USR in my opinion. They should gain it only by selecting the Icon of the World Eaters and Chief Slaughterer option and having that character within 6”.

Rubric Marines: same question that I made for Sorcerers Coven. For the Aspiring Sorcerer maybe better BS 5 rather than WS 5. And, I know, Relentless is better than Slow and Purposeful, but this latter adds the taste of an automaton, mindless unit at the command of the Aspiring Sorcerer.

Raptors: they could well be restored to the 3.5 Codex version and given the Hit and Run USR.

Chaos Spawn: I think they should remain Beasts and, as they are the negation of Daemonhood for a Chaos Champion, they should not have the Invulnerable Save: an increase to 4 Wounds should be enough to represent their resilience to damage. I understand that these Spawns do occupy a Fast Attack choice so their number could be increased (maybe exchanging this for the additional wound, keeping them to 3 W) to 1-8 (Chaos number!!!). Good the idea of the Marks option: they were champions, so should they hadn’t retained their former powers???

Obliterators: it is difficult here to be sure. You gave them the ability to morph two weapons and to fire with both. Of course if they morph the special TL weapons, they give up the chance to have a Power Fist in HtH, and this is good for a tactical choice of the players. But I think that they are already very powerful! Maybe they should be Cult Units and be limited to 0-1 in one army other than for the Iron Warriors, but still can say. In the way you propose, there will be always armies with the terrible combo 9-Oblis+2-Demon Lash Princes, very, too much, powerful!

Basilisk: this should be operated by traitor Guardsmen and retain a BS of 3, in my opinion.

Greater Daemon: I think that Fleet for the GD of Khorne is too much and out of BG (it’ more Slaneeshi), maybe you should give to all these daemons (maybe excluding Nurgle and Slaneesh) the option to purchase Wings, changing the cost.

PSI-POWERS
Doombolt: the increase to St 5 maybe doesn’t justify the AP2. I think better St 4 AP2 or St 5 AP3.

Wind of Chaos: this a powerful power and I think it should be kept as it is now.

Warp Flare: this justify what I told you about the Warcoven. They should be treated as a single Psyker mind, gaining more power through their number, and not having the chance to use one power per model.

WARGEAR & WEAPONS
Ether Cannon, Warp Cannon, Vomit Cannon, Warp Bomb and Open Topped: as these are new weapons and never descripted in the official BG, I think you should encourage players to make conversions to represent them, as a fixed and express RULE, never to be represented by saying “this counts as”.

Grenade Launcher: Krak profile should be the same as in the rest of the BG so with St 6.

Chain Axe: another idea is to make these axes Rending.

Daemon Weapons: no objections! More saying, a good Chaos Codex should include also a Daemonic\Chaos Property\Talents for its Daemonic Blades, like the one you find in the Codex Grey Knights: why Inquisitors can use that powers and Chaos Lords cannot????

Daemonic Steeds: the Khorne’s mount, the bulky Jugger, is too much heavy have Fleet and should remain as it is. The Disk of Tzeentch should also be considered as a Jet Bike in my opinion, and be given as an option to the entire Sorcerers Warcoven, resurrecting the old Disk Raiders of Tzeentch. Palanquine of Nurgle could gain Relentless, to represent the character sitting confortably and firing at will...

Daemonic Visage: another option for this Gift is to inflict -1 to enemies Morale\Ld.

Daemonic Speed: this could be interpreted in many ways. Another way is +1 I and Fleet, or Fleet and ignore terrains. It should be therefore stated that this ability could not be granted to Terminator armored models.

Just to let people know, an update to the Codex will soon be implemented, including two new units: A Drop Pod and this:

"When the towering walker first crashed through the rockcrete wall, we thought it was a Defiler – a fearsome enemy in itself – but, when the streams of energy began to dissipate from its armour, infused with the infernal colours of the warp, we knew it wasn’t a conventional Defiler.

It was then it opened fire, a wicked scream and blinding flash came from the monstrosity. Captain Brustein’s Command Chimera and the pair of Leman Russ beside it disappeared in a howling warp rift, as the energies of another, terrible dimension tore into the battlefield and swallowed the Company Command.

We quickly turned our guns onto the infernal construct, its armour withstanding a prolonged salvo of autocannons, missiles and lascannon, the monstrosity continuing to unleash salvos of missiles into the men. Finally, the thing gave way, its armour rent in several places and leaking the energy of the aether. But rather than collapsing to the ground, the monstrosity convulsed, before exploding, fracturing another warp tear into the world and swallowing a trio of Traitor Astartes."

Report on target designated ‘Warp Stalker’, post-action summary on the Battle of Callon City.
D.U. -M41.

Anglachel wrote:
Obliterators: it is difficult here to be sure. You gave them the ability to morph two weapons and to fire with both. Of course if they morph the special TL weapons, they give up the chance to have a Power Fist in HtH, and this is good for a tactical choice of the players. But I think that they are already very powerful! Maybe they should be Cult Units and be limited to 0-1 in one army other than for the Iron Warriors, but still can say. In the way you propose, there will be always armies with the terrible combo 9-Oblis+2-Demon Lash Princes, very, too much, powerful!

Basilisk: this should be operated by traitor Guardsmen and retain a BS of 3, in my opinion.

PSI-POWERS
Doombolt: the increase to St 5 maybe doesn’t justify the AP2. I think better St 4 AP2 or St 5 AP3.

Daemonic Steeds: the Khorne’s mount, the bulky Jugger, is too much heavy have Fleet and should remain as it is. The Disk of Tzeentch should also be considered as a Jet Bike in my opinion, and be given as an option to the entire Sorcerers Warcoven, resurrecting the old Disk Raiders of Tzeentch. Palanquine of Nurgle could gain Relentless, to represent the character sitting confortably and firing at will...

...official Chaos codex? "Too powerful"?

Basilisk: Hayll naw! Iron Warriors don't give big guns to weak mortals; we take the big guns FROM weak mortals and use them ourselves!

Doombolt: Too many termies and 2+ armor dudes running around compared to when the 'official' dex came out. Leave it AP2!

Daemonic Steeds: Assault units pretty much HAVE to have fleet in 5th ed. I don't use Khorne Lords on Steeds right now because of how slow they are!

Aaaaand The Codex has been updated.

The changes that I can remember are:

Deathrain Drop Pod added.

Warp Stalker added.

Anthame added.

Fluff for Deathrain, Warp Stalker and Open-topped Rhinos added.

Raptors up 5pts as their units base cost, gaining Move Through Cover (read AD-B's Night Lords series, for A) understanding of this and B) awesomeness) and gain the option for purchasing Hit and Run

Chaos Attack Bike added.

Move Through Cover added to the Infiltrate Veteran Skill, to reduce the kick in the teeth to Infiltrating Chosen.
[list]Rubric Marines changed to have a 5+ FNP, rather than re-roll armour saves; cost of Aspiring Sorcerer reduced to compensate and The Sorcerer Commands now includes Ahriman and Sorcerers. As someone pointed out to me, re-rollable 3+ was actually tougher than Plague Marines in most situations, whereas now they have an additional 5+ save under all ranged situations and their other bonuses.

Chaos Spawn charge range reduced, price upped 2pts each, but can embark in Dreathrains and Land Raiders.

Price of Heavy Bolters on Predator increased 5pts as...

... The Heavy Bolter has been slightly boosted. This change will also be implemented in my upcoming Space Marine Codex.

Defiler's have gained AV13 and the ability to fire other heavy weapons on top of their battle cannon, with a points increase to match.

And I think that's about it.

As ever, changes have been made to improve the experience for the player(s) and keep it characterful, changing things where needed to try and keep it a balanced Codex full of viable options.

As ever, all feedback is welcome.

I don't intend to make any more changes after this unless to fix any issues or to bring it in-line with 6th Edition.
All C&C is welcome.
Thanks!

P.S. Feel free to check out my Eldar Codex, which has also been largely well received, and keep an eye out for my Codex: Space Marines which will be finished within the next couple of months.

Kepora wrote:...official Chaos codex? "Too powerful"?

Basilisk: Hayll naw! Iron Warriors don't give big guns to weak mortals; we take the big guns FROM weak mortals and use them ourselves!

Doombolt: Too many termies and 2+ armor dudes running around compared to when the 'official' dex came out. Leave it AP2!

Daemonic Steeds: Assault units pretty much HAVE to have fleet in 5th ed. I don't use Khorne Lords on Steeds right now because of how slow they are!

You're pretty much in-line with my reasoning here Kepora, except that Doombolt is as it is, mainly due to the short range, requiring to-hit and how rarely Smite is taken, whilst Juggernaut's also loose Fleet in the likelihood of them being run within another unit.

I love it! But why are T-suns worse for the same cost? I mean you can debate worse, but the loss of the 4++ is rough


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Eh nvm, the Sorcerers are now only 10 points more with a free psychic power.. I approve

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the current Codex Thousand Sons only have a 5++, rather than 4++.

Ultimately, in my 'dex, Rubric Marines gain the following for 8pts more than a standard CSM:
- Fearless
- Relentless
- Inferno Bolts
- 5+ Invulnerable Save
- 5+ FNP (against shooting)
- Relatively cheap Aspiring Sorcerer

Albeit with some disadvantages:
- Reliance on a/the Sorcerer
- Somewhat reduced mobility & cannot go-to-ground.

To me, this is a pretty fair deal, whilst separating them also from the likes of the other cult units and the Sorcerer can provide a lot of gameplay options; Enemy Leadership manipulation, anti-tank, improved manoeuvrability, anti-cover, increased firepower, close combat defence etc.

I think, finally, I'm pretty happy with Rubric Marines.

Just Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the current Codex Thousand Sons only have a 5++, rather than 4++.

Ultimately, in my 'dex, Rubric Marines gain the following for 8pts more than a standard CSM:
- Fearless
- Relentless
- Inferno Bolts
- 5+ Invulnerable Save
- 5+ FNP (against shooting)
- Relatively cheap Aspiring Sorcerer

Albeit with some disadvantages:
- Reliance on a/the Sorcerer
- Somewhat reduced mobility & cannot go-to-ground.

To me, this is a pretty fair deal, whilst separating them also from the likes of the other cult units and the Sorcerer can provide a lot of gameplay options; Enemy Leadership manipulation, anti-tank, improved manoeuvrability, anti-cover, increased firepower, close combat defence etc.

I think, finally, I'm pretty happy with Rubric Marines.

Not taking sides here, but I thought I would point out that the current rendition of thousand sons have the following -

Slow & purposeful (Which includes relentless)
Fearless
4++ save
Inferno bolts

They still have a reliance on the sorcerer, or other IC, as without one they only roll 1d6 for Slow & Purposeful
They CAN go to ground, though not much reason to with that constant 4++ (I mean you could potentially gain that 3+ cover, but at a loss of firepower, so take your pick)

But the sorcerer is expensive (So are the sons) and no reliable anti-tank.

All is Dust is a little overpowered, and most special characters were boosted in cost for no apparent reason??

Lightning Shadows wrote: most special characters were boosted in cost for no apparent reason??

How many special characters in their existing Codex are actually used with any regularity?
Next to none it seems. Occasionally Kharn and occasionally Abaddon and that's about it.

All is Dust is a little overpowered

All is Dust itself isn't. Rubric Marines themselves could be.

I really like your codex for the CSM....it is really well tough and very well describe and the images add that bit of chaos rather that just plains words.....
things i like to point out...these is a first glance only just a quick look...
I think the dreadnought is to overpower for the point cost, these may be even better than a venerable dreadnought with the ability to fire twice in the shooting fase, either these rule should include the possibility of firing to your troops or allies nearest too you, or just eliminated.....i know is a bummer but chaos also implicates the risks and benefits..

the general tought that a codex allows you to view your army as different legions is a fantastic idea rather than just have a Hq that changes your especial rule like combat tactics for an other rule , lik in normal marines, but it can be a bit messy and confusing trying to coordinate your HQ's with your army since there are only 5 mayor cults leaders o chaos lords avalible abbadon,ahriman,kharn,lucious and typhus....but the idea is great to allow you to play as the legions where intended too, with ther special tactics and stuff, after all they where also space marines....

i will also review the psychic powers, as the standard issue in the original codex have been improved in yours......and that may have cause tha some of them are overpower, and they seem to bit a lot more options that in other codex, these allow flexibility yes but also produce overpower in units that cast psychic powers, i will suggest cutting some of the down...or introduce more buff/debuff ones

last and least and these is mi partially compromised selfish tough that Ahriman still lack's of what it best in him, casting shooting powers, ill just give him the chance that he can cast 2 the same power in the shooting fase and it can be the same shooting powers instead of 3 stadart powers breaking the general psychic rule, and maybe allow him to automatically pasts hes test..... that's it for now...ill add more later.....




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I love the deathrain drop pod, but i will loose the melta charge special rule i think is to over power, instead i will try to balance the scattering rule, i think that +1D6'' for each unit that is a little bit too much ill just said it will add 1'' for each unit that survived wich is a lot.....

jakingo wrote:I really like your codex for the CSM....it is really well tough and very well describe and the images add that bit of chaos rather that just plains words.....
things i like to point out...these is a first glance only just a quick look...

the general tought that a codex allows you to view your army as different legions is a fantastic idea rather than just have a Hq that changes your especial rule like combat tactics for an other rule , lik in normal marines, but it can be a bit messy and confusing trying to coordinate your HQ's with your army since there are only 5 mayor cults leaders o chaos lords avalible abbadon,ahriman,kharn,lucious and typhus....but the idea is great to allow you to play as the legions where intended too, with ther special tactics and stuff, after all they where also space marines....

Hey, thanks man. I appreciate the kind words, thanks.

I will 'warn' you however, that I'm not longer looking for masses of suggestions as feedback; the Codex has been refined to about as far as it can be IMHO so you may wish to be 'conservative' with what you suggest as it were. It's a point I'm very happy with and is a case of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.
That said, feedback is welcome as ever.

I think the dreadnought is to overpower for the point cost, these may be even better than a venerable dreadnought with the ability to fire twice in the shooting fase, either these rule should include the possibility of firing to your troops or allies nearest too you, or just eliminated.....i know is a bummer but chaos also implicates the risks and benefits..

I can understand you saying that, but IMHO it's still pretty well balanced, as what you loose in control you MAY gain in hitting power. So whilst Rage or Fire Frenzy may be a benefit depending on the circumstances, they can also be a hindrance as ultimately you loose control of the dreadnought. And I think we all know that something like that always happens at the worst possible time!
Personally, I don't like the friendly fire aspect of Fire Frenzy; considering the dread hallucinates etc and is prone to firing at shadows etc. that he fires on his own troops seems odd and is a questionable game mechanic.
I've tried to keep a random element to many areas of this Codex, as i feel that befits chaos. But rather than this random-aspect potentially crippling you by sheer ill-luck, it can instead really help you or simply hinder. I feel this represents Chaos well and is a much more fun mechanic for the player.

i will also review the psychic powers, as the standard issue in the original codex have been improved in yours......and that may have cause tha some of them are overpower, and they seem to bit a lot more options that in other codex, these allow flexibility yes but also produce overpower in units that cast psychic powers, i will suggest cutting some of the down...or introduce more buff/debuff ones

Actually - and this is something I've considered a lot - I genuinely don't think the psychic powers are overpowered, except for potentially Winds of Chaos, which is likely going to be changed anyway.
In the current Codex, the only worthwhile powers are usually perceived as LoS, Warptime (pre-FAQ) and occasionally winds of chaos. As such, I've improved all powers except for LoS and Warptime and I really don't think any are overpowered, particularly if compared to recent Codices.
As I said, the only one I fear may be overpowered is Winds of Chaos, but then it has such a short range and can pale in comparison to the GK equivalent which requires an Initiative Test or flat-out removes from play!

last and least and these is mi partially compromised selfish tough that Ahriman still lack's of what it best in him, casting shooting powers, ill just give him the chance that he can cast 2 the same power in the shooting fase and it can be the same shooting powers instead of 3 stadart powers breaking the general psychic rule, and maybe allow him to automatically pasts hes test..... that's it for now...ill add more later.....

Ahriman can cast 2 powers in the shooting phase; Master Psyker states "These two Psychic powers may both be cast in the shooting phase – at the same target only – and can be the same power". Furthermore, with Sorcerers Tomes, this powers can be even further improved, so Ahriman is, as you would like, a psychic and shooting beast.
Originally he could auto-pass psychic tests, but that was a bit too much for my - and some others - liking, particularly with 3 powers a turn.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I love the deathrain drop pod, but i will loose the melta charge special rule i think is to over power, instead i will try to balance the scattering rule, i think that +1D6'' for each unit that is a little bit too much ill just said it will add 1'' for each unit that survived wich is a lot.....

Thanks man, it's nice to have some feedback on the Deathrain!
To clarify, if enemy models remain alive under its template, then it scatters D6" (+1" for each surviving model), which combined with the inability to mishap, means it's still fairly reliable.
I don't think Melta Charges are overpowered to be honest, as the enemy will have at least a turn to flee from any models that disembark, whilst they also suffer from the restrictions associated with grenades.
Personally, I feel if anything that the Deathrain is over-costed; as once it lands, it no longer contributes except to contest objectives, provide cover or sacrifice kill points. Whereas loyalist counterparts can at least shoot their Stormbolter or Deathwind.

Cheers.

So using this Codex, what would be some competitive builds besides dual lash\oblit spam?

I like the codex, but it still seems that the best build remains the same.

Kairos wrote:So using this Codex, what would be some competitive builds besides dual lash\oblit spam?

I like the codex, but it still seems that the best build remains the same.

Well, considering Dual Lash/Oblit spam can only be done using the Icon of the Black Legion, it might not be the best.
Hell, that's probably the most user friendly build, but with almost all units being viable (hopefully all, but I'm trying to play it safe here) it should be relatively easy to create competitive builds and I'm sure if it was an official codex, tournament players could create more specialised builds that are more competitive than the more versatile plague/lash build that we know.
But still, it wouldn't surprise me if it was the best, and in a way, why shouldn't it be? However, if anything it's more expensive to do now.

I don't intend to list every possible competitive build to be honest, but they're out there.
Using Night Lords, you can create MSU Rhino's with a special weapon & combi-weapon, which combined with other units can create a strong vehicle spam.
Powerful Daemon-bomb armies can be created, Assault Troops can be delivered in a variety of manners, Deep Striking is more reliable, units are more competitively priced, the list goes on.

Again, I don't have the time atm to go through a list of competitive builds - although I intend to in the future - but needless to say, with the much improved units and options throughout the Codex, a variety of competitive builds are there. Will they be better than Plague/Lash/Oblit? Who knows? But they'll certainly still be competitive builds in themselves.

Oh wow if I take markof tzeentch I auto get a 2+ save

Yeah... No.

But it says to a maximum of 2+?

Yes, but A) that's not automatic, it would have to stack on top of other invulnerable save bonuses and B) please identify to me where in the Codex it is possible to make a 2+ invulnerable save*.


*hint: it's not possible

So does mark of tzeentch do nothing on normal marines then?

It provides them with a 5+ invulnerable save.

"If the model doesn’t already have an invulnerable save, then the Mark of Tzeentch instead confers a 5+ invulnerable save"

ok, well it should say minimum also your warp mask needs to say "12 and 2" it say 12 and 1 ATM.