Necromunda Underhive - House of Chains Pg272

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**Fayric**

The book of ruin sounds really great. Both rules for actual cults and rules to make your "normal" gang dabble with the dark arts.

Now, if there was only a crew of religious fanatics with blessed flamers and holy evicerators to purg the streets of these abominations.

**H.B.M.C.**

You'll have to wait for the next ~~DLC~~ book release for that.

**Starfarer**

Clearly $290 USD would be an absurdly high price for a similar sized box to Warcry or even the original Kill Team starter.

For now I'm very skeptical about the "leak" as the formatting for the pricing looks wrong. The date format is not US centric - going day > month > year. Additionally Nov. Isn't captilized and the pricing uses a comma instead of a period. None of these things are consistent with US formatting.

All that said, I didn't believe Blood of The Phoenix would be $230 even including the book. However that pricing still follows at least somewhat consistent GW pricing logic. New box set pricing = $170 + $50 campaign book gets you to $230.

If the pricing is accurate is doesn't make me want to leave GW altogether, but it is basically the nail in the coffin for my interest in Necromunda. With the constant changing of rules and new books, it is just too much to keep up with when I get maybe a few games a year.

Kill Team is just a more consistent, better product with a much lower overall investment cost.

The only question that remains for me, is at what price can the terrain be acquired. Give me a Zone Mortalis Kill Team board and I'm good.

**Kanluwen**

Blood of the Phoenix doesn't include the Phoenix Rising book.

The 40-page Blood of the Phoenix campaign book is your guide to the Time of Death Ascendant and the fierce struggles within the Aeldari race. Discover the background of the Craftworlds, Commorragh and beyond as a dark plot is made to slay a Phoenix Lord. Additional rules, meanwhile, give you datasheets for everything in the set, as well as army abilities that let you master their full potential. A set of missions, meanwhile, let you play through a mini-campaign that’s ideal whether you're looking to learn the ropes with the armies in the set or experience an evening of thrilling games with a friend.

Phoenix Rising includes the stuff from Blood of the Phoenix but the box doesn't include the hardback book.

**Starfarer**

Well, my mistake. It thought it did. I wasn't paying too close attention to that release obviously.

Still remaining skeptical on the price due to the formatting issues I pointed out, but even so, the hype for Necromunda itself is going way down considering we're probably looking at a best case scenario price of over $200.

**bullyboy**

tneva82 wrote:
Thargrim wrote:
same reason why people didn't get the grand master edition for AT..

You know right the box sold out fast and gw even doubled back on their words and reprinted it despite initially supposed to be one off release?

Yes, but it was also an initial release of a product that was beloved by so many. If this was the first iteration of Necromunda since the old days...I might agree with you, but it's not.

**Lord Damocles**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
You'll have to wait for the next ~~DLC~~ book release for that.

Given that pointy hoods are problematic now, apparently; I wouldn't hold my breath.

**Racerguy180**

Did anyone notice the necromunda graffiti transfers? I'm 10000% down with it. this mixed with the posters from the community website should make for excellent terrain additions.

otherwise the box is probably gonna be expensive as it includes all new models and ZM.

I want it but my hobby $ is really being stretched by all the new extra $$$$ive stuff.

wtf happened to the $150-170 boxes(not including the Apoc since they're just repackaged)?

**Gimgamgoo**

Oh cmon guys. $290 for the box?
GW probably set this rumour in motion. Then when it's released at a mere $280, everyone will be happy and jump at the bargain.

Sigh.

**Sqorgar**

Gimgamgoo wrote:
Oh cmon guys. $290 for the box?
GW probably set this rumour in motion. Then when it's released at a mere $280, everyone will be happy and jump at the bargain.

It was only a few pages ago that we were complaining when the rumored price was $275.

**drbored**

Sqorgar wrote:
Gimgamgoo wrote:
Oh cmon guys. $290 for the box?
GW probably set this rumour in motion. Then when it's released at a mere $280, everyone will be happy and jump at the bargain.
It was only a few pages ago that we were complaining when the rumored price was $275.

No matter how you slice it, it's a ridiculous price. I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out where the 'savings' are here, and there just... aren't. Gang boxes for Necromunda are 35-45 USD. Terrain sets, even the highest priced ones currently, are like 120? Rulebooks get up to 60. So, assuming the highest price of everything, that still only gets you to 270, and that's zero savings on anything. Usually these boxes are around 20-30% savings, even if most people don't want half of the box.

I can only hope that there's a typo. Even Blood of the Phoenix was only 230. I get that GW wants to slowly raise prices like this, but this sort of jump is going to price people out of Necromunda, a game that's already struggling to grow. At the end of the day, people will just wait for the gangs to be released separately and buy other terrain, or 3d print their own zone mortalis (or buy from people that are 3d printing it)

**callidusx3**

It seems to me that pricing errors in these distributor lists are rare, but they do happen. The LotR Ringwraith repacked releases that went on order today are $65, but the distributor list at the beginning of the week had them at $40. At $290 it is untenable, but I’ll take a wait and see as it could be a typo.

**angel of death 007**

@ 290 I will tell GW the same thing I told them with Blood of Phoenix and Feast of Bones... Nope you are not getting my money.

We gotta start speaking with our wallets everyone, we are the ones encouraging this insta buy mentality.

Feast of Bones, everyone panicked and bought it because they knew it was going to sell out, thus GW could charge whatever they wanted. It is a marketing gimmick people. When you only make 1000 units available for worldwide ofcourse you are going to sell out. It is funny watching people's reaction thinking that GW made a crap ton of these kits. They don't. They want the demand to be high because they want people looking for these box sets to get them into the new army, so they will buy the book etc with the box set they order and suddenly they are hitting checkout for $500 and don't have buyer's remorse because the item sold out. It is a marketing gimmick pure and simple.

Same as when a club or resturaunt only lets in so many people they want the line there so when people see a line it makes them really want to go there wondering what they are missing.

I know what I won't be missing after the Blood of the Pheonix and the Feast of Bones releases. A almost $500 credit card bill at the end of the month. Thank god i got smart.

**Chopstick**

People bought feast of bone because it's still 15-20$ cheaper than buying all the bone stuff separately.

The value is ace if you split the box at your local store (or ebay them) to some noobs/orge player who'd take the orge half for 50% value of the box. It's still cheaper than buying the Ogors stuff separately but not much, in this case the bone player score jackpot, basically paying SC box price.

**ekwatts**

So we still don't have a confirmed price from GW, which means we don't know that it actually is $290.

Which means we still don't know.

But there are still complaints about a price we're not actually certain about yet.

Carry on.

**Baxx**

I'm less concerned about price than quality. Paying 100$ or even 200$ for the rules would be a bargain compared to the amount of books we have received that may or may not be valid in the next year. At the same time we're buying books, they have terrible quality to the point of being unplayable. And on top of that, we get a ton of cards, so many cards that GW have forgotten the names and effect of them, releasing the same cards over again with new names or new cards with old/existing names. I really wish this would stop. Instead of getting a few quality products, we're showered in large amount of low quality products. Let's have a recap of what we got the first 2 years:

-10 or 11 books (including 5 no longer valid)
-4 campaigns + 1 mini-campaign
-ca 200 distinct weapon profiles (several of which are broken / does not work)
-26 Territory Resources
-26 Racket Resources
-unknown amount of new Resources for the next 'Ruin' campaign
-54 House Sub-Plots
-26 Intrigue Sub-Plots
-6 Environment Badzones
-20 Badzone Events
-13 Pets
-10 Hangers-on
-9 Brutes
-32 special character hive scum / bounty hunters
-37 scenarios
-188 tactics cards
-13 underdog tactics cards

I wonder, who plays with all this? Who remembers to follow all these rules? My impression is no two battles anywhere are played using the same rules. It's great with new books and new content allright, but to what extent? More Brutes? More weapons? More tactics cards? More campaigns? More scenarios?

**Yeovil**

I do!, in fact my whole Necromunda campaign plays with the 4 books, we make use of all resources. At the moment we are playing a Law and Misrule campaign and next one will be using both dominion and missrule, as suggested in the Book of Judgement. We use Guilds, Criminal organizations, environment rules, etc... and we love it

Baxx wrote:
I'm less concerned about price than quality. Paying 100$ or even 200$ for the rules would be a bargain compared to the amount of books we have received that may or may not be valid in the next year. At the same time we're buying books, they have terrible quality to the point of being unplayable. And on top of that, we get a ton of cards, so many cards that GW have forgotten the names and effect of them, releasing the same cards over again with new names or new cards with old/existing names. I really wish this would stop. Instead of getting a few quality products, we're showered in large amount of low quality products. Let's have a recap of what we got the first 2 years:

-10 or 11 books (including 5 no longer valid)
-4 campaigns + 1 mini-campaign
-ca 200 distinct weapon profiles (several of which are broken / does not work)
-26 Territory Resources
-26 Racket Resources
-unknown amount of new Resources for the next 'Ruin' campaign
-54 House Sub-Plots
-26 Intrigue Sub-Plots
-6 Environment Badzones
-20 Badzone Events
-13 Pets
-10 Hangers-on
-9 Brutes
-32 special character hive scum / bounty hunters
-37 scenarios
-188 tactics cards
-13 underdog tactics cards

I wonder, who plays with all this? Who remembers to follow all these rules? My impression is no two battles anywhere are played using the same rules. It's great with new books and new content allright, but to what extent? More Brutes? More weapons? More tactics cards? More campaigns? More scenarios?

**drbored**

Necromunda is also the kind of game that doesn't attract power gamers or competitive players. You have all those duplicate cards, crap that's broken, stuff like that. It sounds more like a game of DnD, where stuff is interpreted differently by different DMs and groups. You could call it bad game design, I call it 'normal' when it comes to this sort of thing.

And no player is ever left in a vacuum to break the game. They play with someone else, and sometimes even with a DM when it comes to Necromunda. A conversation between players is all it takes. It goes something like this,

"Hey, can we both agree that this rule is a little bit wack?"
"Oh yeah? In what way?"
"Like, x doesn't work like it should and y is just a hack."
"Fair enough. Let's just leave it out then. I'd rather have a fun game than argue over rules."
"Great, let's get rolling then!"

Boom, problem solved.

**Baxx**

Yeovil wrote:
I do!, in fact my whole Necromunda campaign plays with the 4 books, we make use of all resources. At the moment we are playing a Law and Misrule campaign and next one will be using both dominion and missrule, as suggested in the Book of Judgement. We use Guilds, Criminal organizations, environment rules, etc... and we love it

Nice! I try to do the same and while I love most of the new (and old) stuff, it's quite overwhelming! And several of my friends are not aware of the amount of stuff available in this game.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:
Necromunda is also the kind of game that doesn't attract power gamers or competitive players. You have all those duplicate cards, crap that's broken, stuff like that. It sounds more like a game of DnD, where stuff is interpreted differently by different DMs and groups. You could call it bad game design, I call it 'normal' when it comes to this sort of thing.

And no player is ever left in a vacuum to break the game. They play with someone else, and sometimes even with a DM when it comes to Necromunda. A conversation between players is all it takes. It goes something like this,

"Hey, can we both agree that this rule is a little bit wack?"
"Oh yeah? In what way?"
"Like, x doesn't work like it should and y is just a hack."
"Fair enough. Let's just leave it out then. I'd rather have a fun game than argue over rules."
"Great, let's get rolling then!"

Boom, problem solved.

Yes we are able to easily roll off in case of disagreement, or quickly agree on a house rule to fix a problem. Thing is, each book presents numerous problems to fix, and are heavily discussed. For example the most recent book of judgement had a discussion listing 30-40 errors/typos. That's just one book. Multiply that with 4 (soon 5) and you would need a substantial document to track all the house rules. When I pay premium price for these books, I actually demand better quality and less need for all these fixes and discussions.

**kendoka**

ekwatts wrote:
So we still don't have a confirmed price from GW, which means we don't know that it actually is $290.
Which means we still don't know.
But there are still complaints about a price we're not actually certain about yet.
Carry on.

As we do know that many of the prices on the leaked/faked list are totally off (such as a paint pot holder for USD48 or a red paint handle for 67.50) I think (hope) it is safe to assume that this is also the case for the Necro box. Either are (some of) the prices misstyped, doctored, randomly generated or simply *representing a minimum order*, i.e. twenty pot holders, six handles and two Necro boxes...
USD145 for the box would be reasonable.
Thoughts?

**Racerguy180**

drbored wrote:Necromunda is also the kind of game that doesn't attract power gamers or competitive players. You have all those duplicate cards, crap that's broken, stuff like that. It sounds more like a game of DnD, where stuff is interpreted differently by different DMs and groups. You could call it bad game design, I call it 'normal' when it comes to this sort of thing.

And no player is ever left in a vacuum to break the game. They play with someone else, and sometimes even with a DM when it comes to Necromunda. A conversation between players is all it takes. It goes something like this,

"Hey, can we both agree that this rule is a little bit wack?"
"Oh yeah? In what way?"
"Like, x doesn't work like it should and y is just a hack."
"Fair enough. Let's just leave it out then. I'd rather have a fun game than argue over rules."
"Great, let's get rolling then!"

Boom, problem solved.

I'll agree that Necro is pretty much 100% anticompetitive. A GM/DM/Arbiter is one of the things I'd say is what's missing in 40k, but that's a topic for another thread.

I'm slowly working on the others @ my flgs to get a Necromunda campaign going and it's almost there. I just need to finish my Delaque and grab a couple more hired guns & that Squat ammo jack.

**privateer4hire**

kendoka wrote:
ekwatts wrote:
...
USD145 for the box would be reasonable.
Thoughts?

Sure, that would be more than reasonable.
But I think many of us would agree that there's no way in the world GW will add $20 to the original starter box price for all the terrain this is showing.

**streetsamurai**

seems to me that pretty much any of the outlaw gangs (plus pit slaves) would have been much cooler than these corpse grinders. Hopefully new pics makes me change my mind, cause currently, can't think anything else than meh

**Sqorgar**

kendoka wrote:
USD145 for the box would be reasonable.

There is no way in hell.

Infinity's Operation: Wildfire retails at $132. It includes 15 metal miniatures, a heavy cardboard terrain set (retails for $36 separately), dice, rulebooks, templates, tokens, and whatever else. I feel like that is a fair price for what I got.

Dark Uprising has a similar value proposition as a player - there's more miniatures but due to repeated sprues, the cost of the extra miniatures is negligible. The main difference is in terrain, between cardboard and sturdier plastic scenery, not to mention the mat going from paper to hard cardboard, and it is fairly substantial. Let's assume that this is comparable to a Ravaged Lands expansion for Warcry at $90 (and overpriced, at that), so if we subtract $36 from $132 and then add $90, we get $186. So, $190 seems like the upper limit to what I'd expect for this box. Going over $200 is a big nope from me anyway.

However, when you compare it to the value in GW's own Warcry starter, which was $170, the amount of miniatures and terrain seems very similar (or even exceeding - it also included a dozen chaos beast models) the value in Dark Uprising - and it was, what? Four months ago?

**Voss**

Their half-year mark for the fiscal year (they end their fiscal year on June 2) is coming up in December. Maybe they're trying to shore up some numbers for the half-year report.

**Kanluwen**

Sqorgar wrote:
kendoka wrote:
USD145 for the box would be reasonable.
There is no way in hell.

Infinity's Operation: Wildfire retails at $132. It includes 15 metal miniatures, a heavy cardboard terrain set (retails for $36 separately), dice, rulebooks, templates, tokens, and whatever else. I feel like that is a fair price for what I got.

Anyone who says Wildfire was "a fair price" is full of it.

Hell, anyone who says Infinity is "reasonably priced" isn't worth listening to either. They make GW look cheap at this point.

**Sqorgar**

Kanluwen wrote:
Anyone who says Wildfire was "a fair price" is full of it.

What the hell? Most non-GW two player starter kits are around $100 (or $50 for the sampler-sized starters, like Malifaux had). Star Wars Legion, Kings of War, Marvel Crisis Core, MonPoc, RuneWars, Warmachine/Hordes, and previous Infinity Operation boxes. Wildfire is more expensive, due partly to the increased cardboard terrain quality (I thought the Icestorm cardboard terrain was pretty, but Wildfire's is way better). The Infinity Operation boxes are some of the few starter boxes that I consider to be actual starter boxes (two players new to the game can something like Operation Icestorm, learn to play through a half dozen scenarios, then immediately grow into a full game with the Beyond expansion).

Hell, anyone who says Infinity is "reasonably priced" isn't worth listening to either. They make GW look cheap at this point.

How do you figure? Now, I'm sure our opinions of "reasonable priced" are probably a bit subjective, but how in the living feth does Infinity make GW look even remotely cheap? You can get two complete armies in Infinity for under $150. You can't even get two incomplete armies in 40k for $230.

**Kanluwen**

At this point, it's because of the artificial stagnation of Infinity by their constant refusal to include extra gubbins to actually add some value to kits while whining about SKU bloat(which is their own fault).

**Sqorgar**

Kanluwen wrote:
At this point, it's because of the artificial stagnation of Infinity by their constant refusal to include extra gubbins to actually add some value to kits while whining about SKU bloat(which is their own fault).

I feel like there is a pretty big gulf between "I would like this to be a thing" and "Infinity makes GW look cheap".

Histrionic overreaction is a treasured part of this hobby, but let's not strain ourselves...

**Modock**

I find the Infinity starter sets very good value for money. Between the quality of minis and all the things you get in a box I'd say it's a very reasonable price.