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Made in us
Tail Gunner





https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0eHXwuhrn4_b2xMWjF2VFQwZUU/view?usp=drivesdk


General consensus seems to be that we came out of the edition changes in much better shape them alot of the factions.

On the other hand skimmer spam seems like its dead and buried. What do you guys n gals think? How do we stack up in 8th?

 
   
Made in us
Devastating Dark Reaper



Biel-Tan

I like it for the most part. Had a kabalite army since 5th edition and it looks like they'll be in good shape. Drazhar looks kind of underwhelming admittedly and I'd still be crazy to use wyches but most units look like they can be useful. Even Mandrakes look kinda interesting now and that has me excited. I also feel kinda disappointed that the Splinter Cannon has changed to rapid fire 3. I found it to be much more interesting with the 4 assault/heavy 6 but whatever, at least my lances are still mean.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I disagree that skimmer spam is dead.

The reduced cost for basic infantry still allows for skimmer spam as it offsets the increased skimmer cost

5 warriors with blaster in venom is 145 pts, very close to the old cost-effective but much more durable.
   
Made in ca
Kabalite Conscript






Did you see the huge hellion buff?? they do 2 damage now which is neat, but you wound up to tough 7 on a 5+. However you now get to choose combat drugs.
Even though you can't choose the same one multiple times until all are chosen, start with one unit. Give it +2 move, now you have a 16 inch move! and can use command point for a charge roll!
And some deployments could have them start 18 inches away from the opponent's deployment zone. That is nuts.

Sad about venom spam, hella sad. No point upgrading to second splintercannon, just learn to play dark eldar more aggressive. I think you will see more of a balance between assault and shooting in armies.
Especially since some shooting weapons cost a lot. And the Vehicles that tend to carry them also cost a lot.

Definitely adding more incubi to my army. Mandrake now mandatory hq over lhamaean but archon getting free shadowfield rocks! Also you can take any harlequin unit or eldar unit in your detachments since they only have to share one faction 9Aeldari), just run an on foot farseer since he can't be targeted and cast doom and smite and for psychic defense. Rocking.

//ALL GLORY TO THE PARTRIDGES

//Just give them the push while I kickstart 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




The new wound chart was a huge buff for an army full of S3 T3 kiddos.

The new Raiders and Venoms are vastly more resilient then the previous iterations, particularly to small arms fire. It use to take 27 bolter shots to drop a Venom, now it takes 72.

Drazhar and Lili aren't overwhelming but they do have nifty unit multipliers and they are considerable cheaper then they use to be. Starting turn 3 with PfP Incubbi and Wyches within range of them will be hitting on a 2+ with rerolls. Not bad.

I think Mandrakes came out like gang busters.

Still mulling over Talos and Chronos.

I think the new PfP mechanic is the best iteration yet. All the buffs are usefull to all units, and though there has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth over the new FNP replacement, I think a lot of people are forgetting that you will at least get to take it all the time now, instead of only against small arms fire.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Picking combat drugs is huge in my book, since it gives us a greater amount of flexibility and makes certain units that much better:

- Wyches/Blood Brides can be kitted out with +1S, +1A or +1T, depending on the enemy.

- +1WS works great for a Succubus in order to compensate the malus of the Archite Glaive

- +1LD on our Beastmasters is a nice deal, since they share their LD with beasts

- +1M makes Reavers and Hellions even faster and +1T is good on most things in a T3 army.

It shouldn't be hard to distribute all six bonuses without rolling the die even once.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 11:01:23


Check out my 8th Edition Army Builders:

Tau

Dark Eldar

 
   
Made in au
Devastating Dark Reaper




Australia

DE are definitely coming out pretty unscathed compared to other factions, other than poor Venoms which seem to have got a bit shafted. We might actually see some DE HQs on the field now that they're so cheap!

Also, am I correct in seeing that Hellions can now use a transport? They don't have the Jump Pack keyword. Pretty funny stuff.
   
Made in ca
Kabalite Conscript






You're fething right they can! so lets do some math. You get a deployment where it is 18" away from enemy deployment zone. Hellions start embarked in raider. They disembark for free 3". They have +2 move combat drug. They move 14". Congratz, on their 1st move they are now in the opponent's deployment zone. They then charge and you use the re-roll from command point. They have 19" move, [Eidt: 16" move +3 inch disembark] roll an average of 7" charge, and only have to get within 1" of enemy model. This give them and average of 27" threat turn one. Make opponents weeeeeeep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Venoms got nerfed but all poison weapons got a big buff. They now wound vehicles on 6"s and gargantuan creatures no longer exist. Hello Wraithknight. Goodbye wraithknight. Not that I expect to see wraithknights any more. They got hurt bad, will probably just see them with the sword and board and a farseer trying to fortune them to help them ignore wounds.

But being able to take any eldar or harlequin modle in the same detachment is neat since they share a faction. I know monobuild is cool and all but just take the farseer. They can't be singled out easily, have a good 7" move and will go along way to stopping other psykers. Plus just pick doom to greatly help those poor ass ravagers land those d6 dark lances or if you do take haywire, get those mortal wounds flowing

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/01 17:02:52


//ALL GLORY TO THE PARTRIDGES

//Just give them the push while I kickstart 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Venoms got nerfed but all poison weapons got a big buff.


You know, their shooting went down marginally but it's not nearly as much as people are making it out to be. A double Cannon Venom now has 12 shots at 34" and 6 shots at 52", versus 12 shots at 48". In most cases, the 34" range will be more then enough. In addition, they are much, much more resilient then before. Like almost 300% more in some cases.

And, like you said, the Cannon is significantly more versatile then it was before.
   
Made in ca
Kabalite Conscript






To be honest, I wouldn't even bother upgrading the second cannon. With the venom new movement and how a lot of units will be faster and closer then before I would just keep cheap as is. You still have 10 shots at 28" and I just see people using the new 9" away deployments since its too good. Just comes in, can assault and protects the unit. I'm taking 3 incubi units in venom as a huge deterrent to this. I think they are just swell for 18 points each.

//ALL GLORY TO THE PARTRIDGES

//Just give them the push while I kickstart 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Venoms didn't really get nerfed, consider a lot of things are faster and closer, the venom can move 16" and have 12 shots at 18" range with 2 cannons, or 10 shots at 12" range, or 8 shots at 18" with Cannon and twin rifle. The 4 extra shots between 12" and 18" is decent for 15 pts- but obviously not OMG why would you not take like before.
   
Made in gb
Sinewy Scourge




Birmingham

Reavers are going to be interesting, I think there role in the army has just changed to character hunting, give them a Blaster, or Heat Lance if you can spare the points, and get in close to those Captains.

Wracks being troops is good, particularly since you can take 2 Hexrifles in a 5 man unit now.
   
Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

Question on the Talos Ichor Injector.

''You may re-roll wound rolls with this weapon. Wounds of a 6+ cause d3 mortal wounds''.

It doesn't say re-roll failed wound rolls, so I'm considering if you succeed to wound on a roll that isn't a 6+, can you re-roll it to try get that 6+? At first it seems like a pretty bad weapon, but a slightly better than 1 in 3 chance of doing D3 mortal wounds isn't terrible.

 
   
Made in ca
Kabalite Conscript






It's neat that you now don't have to charge the unit you shot at. So mandrakes could come in, shoot at a nearbye unit to soften it and then charge a hopefully squishy unit and cause damage in a couple spots at the same time

//ALL GLORY TO THE PARTRIDGES

//Just give them the push while I kickstart 
   
Made in us
Tail Gunner





Giving reavers +1T combat drugs would be pretty interesting. T5 2w could make them a pretty decent combat unit.

 
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







I'm a fan of the new beastmaster and clawed fiends. Looking at most unit buffs for characters, they usually allow rerolls of 1s. But the beastmaster allows all failed hit rolls to be rerolled. With clawed fiends hitting on 4+ and leadership 4, a beastmaster fixes those weaknesses perfectly, now that you can pick combat drugs and make him leadership 9. You would have to lose four clawed fiends in a turn to worry about morale.

   
Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

Our Coven stuff seems weird all over.

The Haemonculus is crazy, one of our better close combat characters (Give him an electro-corrosive whip for a Dmg 2 agoniser) with 5 attacks for some reason! T5, and gives T5/T6/T7 to all coven units. THIS CAN INCLUDES RAIDERS AND VENOMS.

The Twin-linked weapons of the Talos got a buff to just be two weapons. Yeah, a Talos puts out the same fire power as a Double Cannon Venom, and is more likely to want to be rapid fire range to get it done. Heat lances are very good as well. This time around they get power from pain, giving them that great 6+ super FNP, fleet and hit on 2's in combat by turn 3.

Chronus seems to kinda suck, but the re-roll's to wound would be quite helpful to run around with the Talosi. 2 Talsoi with a following Chronus get into combat turn 3, that's 12 attacks that hit on 2's, wound on 3's, re-roll 1's, and do 2 dmg each. A great little kill squad.


 
   
Made in au
Devastating Dark Reaper




Australia

The Voidraven is one of our most improved units, I think. The void mine is nasty, you can easily wipe out a 10 man of something like MEQs or Necron Immortals unit with it, taking morale into consideration. Straight through invul saves as well.

On the topic of Hellions & Scourges, does the Fly keyword prevent them from using transports, perhaps? I can't find anything that says so. It just doesn't seem right after all this time for them to be hopping in Raiders. Also, why does the transport entries specify 'Incubi or Drukhari Infantry' when Incubi are clearly Drukhari infantry? Seems a bit unnecessary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 03:15:27


 
   
Made in us
Tail Gunner





Regarding the VR im actually struggling to think of a justification for taking the razorwing over it. The VR is only like 15 points more and comes with more wounds and better weapons.

I mean the fleshbane bomb is nice... I guess. But up to 10 mortal wounds that auto hit is better.

The bombing doesnt even count as a shooting attacks, so after raining mortal wounds on a target you can finish it off with your 2d3 dark scythes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 03:40:21


 
   
Made in gb
Sinewy Scourge




Birmingham

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Regarding the VR im actually struggling to think of a justification for taking the razorwing over it. The VR is only like 15 points more and comes with more wounds and better weapons.

I mean the fleshbane bomb is nice... I guess. But up to 10 mortal wounds that auto hit is better.

The bombing doesnt even count as a shooting attacks, so after raining mortal wounds on a target you can finish it off with your 2d3 dark scythes.


Lets not forget that for both of them those missiles, unlike the bomb, are no longer One Use Only so you can be firing those missiles off all day long getting you plenty of extra shooting at S6/7 or Poison (2+). I think I might keep the Void Lances on the Voidraven, the extra range could be very useful whith the minimum movement and always turn 90 degrees requirements.

Both Flyers are defintiely much improved.
   
Made in us
Commoragh-bound Peer






Kinda seems like Wracks are pretty good in this new version. For every five, we get one chance (although a slim one) to crank out some Mortal Wounds. On a troop choice, that's rare.
   
Made in ca
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





Nova Scotia

One thing to remember against certain armies is the requirement for a screen. I anticipate seeing a lot of turn 1 charges with things like a Trygon and a huge unit of genestealers. Or that combo x2... (happened to me already. It hurts!). That said, a beast master with the leadership drugs and a score of cheap razor wing flocks would do the trick. They are literally there to soak up a turn 1 charge. Plus if someone is foolish enough to assault them, whether or not they live is of no consequence since you can just fall back now, leaving them up to some serious ranged attacks and counter assaults.

I had played a game with 3x Crimson Hunter's and I must say they are extremely good. The razorwings should be good too with the dark lances and the ability to adapt to different situations with their missiles. Although the voidravens bomb is pretty dope...

One other thing to remember about the venoms, is that they not only have a 5++, but have a -1 to be hit. That means (approx) 16% less hits!

Overall I'm really excited about these changes and the added resiliency is much needed. I mean I get that they are supposed to be a glass cannon sort of effect, but when a strong gust of wind wrecks your whole army, that doesn't seem very fun.
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







Can anyone convince me why Lelith is any better than a stock Succubus? She costs more points and swings at Strength 3 (I guess +1 S combat drugs is the obvious choice). For a bucket load of attacks on a single model, I'd rather take a Solitaire. Am I missing something?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/06 05:06:38


   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 Oaka wrote:
Can anyone convince me why Lelith is any better than a stock Succubus? She costs more points and swings at Strength 3 (I guess +1 S combat drugs is the obvious choice). For a bucket load of attacks on a single model, I'd rather take a Solitaire. Am I missing something?


- Solitaire is 117 points, looks to be stronger on the offensive, with 8-10 attacks with S4 AP-3 D1 or AP-1 D3. He can also move over Terrain/Units and has 12" movement, can Advance and Charge as well as fall back and shoot/charge in the same turn.

- Lelith is 125 points, has 5-7 Attacks with S4, 5 of which can be AP-4. She also buffs friendly Wych Cult Units, forces re-rolls on enemy fall backs and gets re-rolls on hit and wound rolls against characters.

- A normal Succubus with Archite Glaive and Blaster Pistol is 87 points, has "only" a 4+ invul save, S5(!) in melee, 4 Attacks, buffs friendly Wych cult units and forces a roll-off on enemy fall backs. If you give her +1WS via Combat Drugs, you'll even mitigate the Archite Glaive's Malus. If you can live with 3+ to hit in melee, you can give her 5 Attacks or S6 in melee. Oh, and she can fire a 6" BS2+ S8 AP-4 D3 shot in the shooting phase, which is not to be underestimated.

I find they are comparable but have different applications. My favourite so far is the Succubus though. Character assassination could become a big thing in 8th, however, so I can see Lelith becoming an important factor. Solitaire is by far the most mobile and very strong in melee, but he is not flat out the best, since with M12 he'll be pretty much on his own and doesn't confer any benefits to other units. I can see him being a nasty thorn in the enemy's side though.

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2017/06/06 11:08:16


Check out my 8th Edition Army Builders:

Tau

Dark Eldar

 
   
Made in us
Liberated Grot Land Raida




I ran Lelith in a recent game and loved her. My biggest irritation with her and the succubus is the fact that their buff (unless im reading it wrong) seems to go away turn 3, when you start adding 1 to all rolls in the fight subphase.

It would seem if you add 1 to all your rolls, it is impossible to roll a 1 and get re-rolls...

The reason for Lelith is that she out-damages the Succubus against light infantry and most characters with the bonus attack from the Mane and the Penetrating Knives, especially if you snag her strength drugs, and you shouldn't discount the fact that she's a significant step up defensively with a 3++ rather than a 4++. I've been trying to get 6-7 power Levels per transport in my army, and in my test games, Lelith has done quite well.

As for Succubus/Lelith over Solitaire, No Escape is a really really good ability.
   
Made in fr
Dakka Veteran




 Khaine wrote:
The Voidraven is one of our most improved units, I think. The void mine is nasty, you can easily wipe out a 10 man of something like MEQs or Necron Immortals unit with it, taking morale into consideration. Straight through invul saves as well.

On the topic of Hellions & Scourges, does the Fly keyword prevent them from using transports, perhaps? I can't find anything that says so. It just doesn't seem right after all this time for them to be hopping in Raiders. Also, why does the transport entries specify 'Incubi or Drukhari Infantry' when Incubi are clearly Drukhari infantry? Seems a bit unnecessary.

I don't see anything preventing Hellions or scourges to get into transports.
Btw, mandrakes in transports might be decent too, to fly around dealing mortal wounds.

As for the incubi, it's pretty weird indeed. It's now one of the 4 DE subfactions (with kabal, wych cult and haemonculus), but all incubis are also drukhari. The transport rule would only matter if you could get Incubi that are not drukhari, like if GW released some Ynarri incubis. In that case, they would have introduced the keyword so they don't need an errata. But the venoms themselves cannot become incubi faction, which doesn't make much sense if the plan is to create a non-drukhari incubi shrine with access to venom in the future.
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







the_scotsman wrote:
I ran Lelith in a recent game and loved her. My biggest irritation with her and the succubus is the fact that their buff (unless im reading it wrong) seems to go away turn 3, when you start adding 1 to all rolls in the fight subphase.

It would seem if you add 1 to all your rolls, it is impossible to roll a 1 and get re-rolls...



There is a side excerpt for rerolls by the rules for Psychic phase. It says you reroll before any modifiers, so if you roll a 1, then you get to reroll it before adding 1, which makes any WS 3+ Wych unit always hit unless you roll double 1s after the Power from Pain buff.

   
Made in us
Tail Gunner





Since characters can't join squads anymore, how does Lelith (or any of our HQs for that matter) go into assault and not... Die? At least before her high WS made most things hit her on 5s, but with fixed 3+s and 4+s it seems like a t3 3++ model wouldn't last long against Orks or marines or genestealers etc.

I've only used a shooty archon in a venom so far so I have no experience with our melee HQs.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/06 14:08:59


 
   
Made in us
Liberated Grot Land Raida




 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Since characters can't join squads anymore, how does Lelith (or any of our HQs for that matter) go into assault and not... Die? At least before her high WS made most things hit her on 5s, but with fixed 3+s and 4+s it seems like a t3 3++ model wouldn't last long against Orks or marines or genestealers etc.

I've only used a shooty archon in a venom so far so I have no experience with our melee HQs.


You cant target characters unless they're the closest model to you typically. Snipers ignore that rule, but everyone else obeys it.

And keep in mind that unlike other factions' command squads, the court of the archon actually ALL individually has the Character rule, which actually makes them quite good. The biggest issue I've run into is that you can target their transport, so it's typically a good idea to give a court or succubus their own ride (Haemis will typically want to be footslogging behind their pets to give out their aura buffs, but the others definitely warrant a Venom)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Oaka wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I ran Lelith in a recent game and loved her. My biggest irritation with her and the succubus is the fact that their buff (unless im reading it wrong) seems to go away turn 3, when you start adding 1 to all rolls in the fight subphase.

It would seem if you add 1 to all your rolls, it is impossible to roll a 1 and get re-rolls...



There is a side excerpt for rerolls by the rules for Psychic phase. It says you reroll before any modifiers, so if you roll a 1, then you get to reroll it before adding 1, which makes any WS 3+ Wych unit always hit unless you roll double 1s after the Power from Pain buff.


Aha, this is excellent to hear, thank you. So lelith still gets to go into auto-hit mode (Also, remember that in the section on auras it states that units are always in range of their own auras, so a Succubus/Lelith is ALWAYS rerolling 1s because they count as a Wych Cult unit within 6".)

Also amusingly the Haemonculus' buff also applies to Venoms and Raiders he's near. The Wrack crew now makes the vehicle a little tougher!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/06 15:01:17


 
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







Perhaps if you don't get the first turn it will benefit, but the toughness aura doesn't exist if the Haemonculus is in a transport, so pretty hard to keep up with those vehicles.

   
 
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