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Plasma overheats more often at night. Moving Plasma at night makes it explode 50% of the time.

Overheating Plasma GUNS now instantly kills Razorbacks or any other vehicle with plasma weaponry despite vehicles not suffering "Gets Hot" since 3rd ed (maybe since before?) Overheating Heavy Plasma Cannons on Dreadnoughts however is totally fine and will only cause a scratch on the paintjob.

Flamethrowers don't work in overwatch if the assaulting unit assaults from 8.0000000001" away but do from 7.9999999999" away. Obviously the extra time it takes for the enemy to reach you gives them performance anxiety.

A flamer is better at killing a plane flying a mile up and moving at mach 7 than it is killing unarmoured bugs in a ditch.

A Land Raider that is 50% obscured and inside terrain gets +1 to it's save, but if it's 99% obscured and even a single ℓP outside of the area terrain, no save bonus.

Dried up balls of goo (Spore Mines) somehow are able to rip though all manner of magical protections, ceremite vehicle armour and make stuff that dodges really good suddenly unable to dodge.

To extend on the above, the aforementioned balls of goo will strip a wound off a TITAN on a 2+ when a lascannon can barely scratch it.

Cataphractii Terminators, lumbering literal behemoths unable to move faster than a brisk stroll suddenly TRIPLE in speed when there is something to punch way over there!

When a Warboss and his Boyz who are well 'ard try and smash some 'umie skullz, the Warboss more often than not just trips over and faceplants, or decides that using his killy bitz wasn't all that fun anyway.

The usual complaint that there are so many re-roll miss auras but you can't take into account modifiers BEFORE re-rolling.

Any more gems from 8th?

Land raiders that forget how to fire lascannons when engaged by a single grot.

Multitudes of people trying their hardest to break the new edition with questionable RAW interpretations. Even more people trying their hardest to convince people that these units that they've never played with yet, and have only looked at them on paper, are the worst units in the game, unplayable and a massive nerf to their faction.

Seriously, the release of 8th ed has brought out so many people who are trying to claim that 8th is one of 40k's worst editions. I find this hillarious and ever so silly.

A heavily armed and armored space marine captain is advancing alone towards you, with both the intent and ability to tear your unit to shreds. You start to take aim at your impending doom, but your cultist squad buddy points out that, in the opposite direction, there is a guardsmen squad trying their best to look non-threatening while hiding in cover, and they are 1% closer to you than the captain. You completely forget about the angry marine to take shots at the guard.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Plasma overheats more often at night. Moving Plasma at night makes it explode 50% of the time.

Shooting at night is considerably more stressful than doing it by daylight. The same for stationary vs moving. Overheating not only include mechanical but human failure. See? Took two minutes to make sense out of it

Dried up balls of goo (Spore Mines) somehow are able to rip though all manner of magical protections, ceremite vehicle armour and make stuff that dodges really good suddenly unable to dodge.

Maybe it's not their explosion but the poisonous gas getting through the smallest gaps in armour? I don't love it but it can be explained

Cataphractii Terminators, lumbering literal behemoths unable to move faster than a brisk stroll suddenly TRIPLE in speed when there is something to punch way over there!

They save energy from the power source of the exoskeleton to achieve short bursts of speed when needed (e.g. charging)?

When a Warboss and his Boyz who are well 'ard try and smash some 'umie skullz, the Warboss more often than not just trips over and faceplants, or decides that using his killy bitz wasn't all that fun anyway.

Care to explain? I don't get the in-game mechanics involved

Any more gems from 8th?

Well, you had to try a bit harder with some of them

When a Warboss and his Boyz who are well 'ard try and smash some 'umie skullz, the Warboss more often than not just trips over and faceplants, or decides that using his killy bitz wasn't all that fun anyway.

He's trying to say about Charge rolling.. which came several editions ago.

 DanielFM wrote:
Shooting at night is considerably more stressful than doing it by daylight. The same for stationary vs moving. Overheating not only include mechanical but human failure. See? Took two minutes to make sense out of it

It took two minutes to create a fluff justification. Doesn't change the fact that Plasma Guns detonating more often at night or when firing at specific types of targets is an unintended consequence of a badly written rule needs to be reversed immediately.

Ah the splitting hairs edition.

Any more gems from 8th?

The community.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DanielFM wrote:
Shooting at night is considerably more stressful than doing it by daylight. The same for stationary vs moving. Overheating not only include mechanical but human failure. See? Took two minutes to make sense out of it

It took two minutes to create a fluff justification. Doesn't change the fact that Plasma Guns detonating more often at night or when firing at specific types of targets is an unintended consequence of a badly written rule needs to be reversed immediately.

Stress is hardly likely to cause a fatal injury from aiming.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Plasma overheats more often at night. Moving Plasma at night makes it explode 50% of the time.

Harder to operate in hazardous conditions. Harder to get the proper setup if on the move constantly. Perhaps try to view it from a thematic angle rather than raw rules?

Overheating Plasma GUNS now instantly kills Razorbacks or any other vehicle with plasma weaponry despite vehicles not suffering "Gets Hot" since 3rd ed (maybe since before?) Overheating Heavy Plasma Cannons on Dreadnoughts however is totally fine and will only cause a scratch on the paintjob.

Vehicles have always suffered Gets Hot. This rendition sees Dreadnoughts and Leman Russes having specially designed heavy plasma weaponry while other vehicles appear to have done a botch job and just strapped it on. I'm pretty sure if I strap a leaky, prone to malfunction and hazardous weapon not specifically designed for a vehicle onto the vehicle it's going to have great results.

Flamethrowers don't work in overwatch if the assaulting unit assaults from 8.0000000001" away but do from 7.9999999999" away. Obviously the extra time it takes for the enemy to reach you gives them performance anxiety.

Or perhaps surprise that the enemy could get you from that far away. Considering the Average charge is going to be 7 sans modifiers (2D6 nets an average result of 7) I think Flamers are just fine.

A flamer is better at killing a plane flying a mile up and moving at mach 7 than it is killing unarmoured bugs in a ditch.

This is odd, I will give you that.

A Land Raider that is 50% obscured and inside terrain gets +1 to it's save, but if it's 99% obscured and even a single ℓP outside of the area terrain, no save bonus.

So drive that extra half an inch. It won't kill you.

Dried up balls of goo (Spore Mines) somehow are able to rip though all manner of magical protections, ceremite vehicle armour and make stuff that dodges really good suddenly unable to dodge.

Ah yes, because ninjas are famed for dodging mines with reflexes. Because armour is great against potent bio-acids. Magic protections that require immense concentration at times work so well when a tentacled fether jumps at your face and explodes.

You still crying about spore mines? Seriously, you play ORKS. You are crying about something that is S and T 1, with a 7+ save that can give up first blood kill points. And on average it does a single mortal wound. You run a gods damned horde army. Oh no, a single mortal wound on a 6 point Ork! DOOOOOOM!

To extend on the above, the aforementioned balls of goo will strip a wound off a TITAN on a 2+ when a lascannon can barely scratch it.

I'm sure the 30+ wound vehicle, some of which can regenerate wounds, is so concerned by that single wound suffered.

Cataphractii Terminators, lumbering literal behemoths unable to move faster than a brisk stroll suddenly TRIPLE in speed when there is something to punch way over there!

Amazing what momentum does.

When a Warboss and his Boyz who are well 'ard try and smash some 'umie skullz, the Warboss more often than not just trips over and faceplants, or decides that using his killy bitz wasn't all that fun anyway.

You're complaining about luck now and trying to say you should be exempt from chance and luck because of fluff. Really?

The usual complaint that there are so many re-roll miss auras but you can't take into account modifiers BEFORE re-rolling.

Suddenly you have to think about firing modes, positioning, what powers to try and deny - I know the influx of actual decisions to be made from 6th and 7th's potato modes must be a bit much for you.

Any more gems from 8th?

Almost every post you have made since.

How about the horde of Infantry against any Titan.

"Oh crap, a titan. . .we're dead"
becomes, "shoot our flashlights at it. We'll kill it eventually. . ."

It's the dead of night. The Space Marine tactical squad moves up. The plasma cannon-toting giant in power armour aims downrange. He sees a shimmer. There! The ghostkeel and it's pesky stealth drones that are shrouding it. He fires.

Roll a d6. On a 1-5, his plasma cannon blows up and he dies. On a 6, he misses anyway.

 carldooley wrote:
How about the horde of Infantry against any Titan.

"Oh crap, a titan. . .we're dead"
becomes, "shoot our flashlights at it. We'll kill it eventually. . ."

Exactly as they have been trained to do. The glorious imperial flashlight will bring down any foe if used in enough quantity. I applaud that unit's commissar for maintaining acceptable levels of indoctrination.

 carldooley wrote:
How about the horde of Infantry against any Titan.

"Oh crap, a titan. . .we're dead"
becomes, "shoot our flashlights at it. We'll kill it eventually. . ."

I think this idea has been disproven, due to physical limitations of how many Conscripts can be gotten within firing range and the high rate of attrition suffered by the infantry horde at the weapons/feet of the Titan.

 DanielFM wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Plasma overheats more often at night. Moving Plasma at night makes it explode 50% of the time.

Shooting at night is considerably more stressful than doing it by daylight. The same for stationary vs moving. Overheating not only include mechanical but human failure. See? Took two minutes to make sense out of it

Dried up balls of goo (Spore Mines) somehow are able to rip though all manner of magical protections, ceremite vehicle armour and make stuff that dodges really good suddenly unable to dodge.

Maybe it's not their explosion but the poisonous gas getting through the smallest gaps in armour? I don't love it but it can be explained

Cataphractii Terminators, lumbering literal behemoths unable to move faster than a brisk stroll suddenly TRIPLE in speed when there is something to punch way over there!

They save energy from the power source of the exoskeleton to achieve short bursts of speed when needed (e.g. charging)?

When a Warboss and his Boyz who are well 'ard try and smash some 'umie skullz, the Warboss more often than not just trips over and faceplants, or decides that using his killy bitz wasn't all that fun anyway.

Care to explain? I don't get the in-game mechanics involved

Any more gems from 8th?

Well, you had to try a bit harder with some of them

A landraider performs a tokio drift power slide straight up to a wall of a ruin facing in some other direction of a target, getting 99.99999999% covered but measures line of sight from an edge of a tread thus the enemy doesn't benefit from cover.

Maybe the guns are shooting at the horizon with a first cosmic speed so that the shots that had been fired a couple hours ago are making it around the planet and hitting the target right around cover

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Plasma overheats more often at night. Moving Plasma at night makes it explode 50% of the time.

Overheating Plasma GUNS now instantly kills Razorbacks or any other vehicle with plasma weaponry despite vehicles not suffering "Gets Hot" since 3rd ed (maybe since before?) Overheating Heavy Plasma Cannons on Dreadnoughts however is totally fine and will only cause a scratch on the paintjob.

Flamethrowers don't work in overwatch if the assaulting unit assaults from 8.0000000001" away but do from 7.9999999999" away. Obviously the extra time it takes for the enemy to reach you gives them performance anxiety.

A flamer is better at killing a plane flying a mile up and moving at mach 7 than it is killing unarmoured bugs in a ditch.

A Land Raider that is 50% obscured and inside terrain gets +1 to it's save, but if it's 99% obscured and even a single ℓP outside of the area terrain, no save bonus.

Dried up balls of goo (Spore Mines) somehow are able to rip though all manner of magical protections, ceremite vehicle armour and make stuff that dodges really good suddenly unable to dodge.

To extend on the above, the aforementioned balls of goo will strip a wound off a TITAN on a 2+ when a lascannon can barely scratch it.

Cataphractii Terminators, lumbering literal behemoths unable to move faster than a brisk stroll suddenly TRIPLE in speed when there is something to punch way over there!

When a Warboss and his Boyz who are well 'ard try and smash some 'umie skullz, the Warboss more often than not just trips over and faceplants, or decides that using his killy bitz wasn't all that fun anyway.

The usual complaint that there are so many re-roll miss auras but you can't take into account modifiers BEFORE re-rolling.

Any more gems from 8th?

The hyperbole is strong in this one

 koooaei wrote:

 DanielFM wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Plasma overheats more often at night. Moving Plasma at night makes it explode 50% of the time.

..............

When a Warboss and his Boyz who are well 'ard try and smash some 'umie skullz, the Warboss more often than not just trips over and faceplants, or decides that using his killy bitz wasn't all that fun anyway.

Care to explain? I don't get the in-game mechanics involved

Any more gems from 8th?

Well, you had to try a bit harder with some of them

A landraider performs a tokio drift power slide straight up to a wall of a ruin facing in some other direction of a target, getting 99.99999999% covered but measures line of sight from an edge of a tread thus the enemy doesn't benefit from cover.

Maybe the guns are shooting at the horizon with a first cosmic speed so that the shots that had been fired a couple hours ago are making it around the planet and hitting the target right around cover

For the vehicles mostly covered still being able to shoot rule, I just fluff it as

The skilled Vehicle Crew suddenly back out just enough to fire, and just as quickly reverse direction and disappear back into cover.

The models are abstractions. This is no more ridiculous than assault units with immovable legs and arms, we have to use our imaginations.

This image (from, the internet) upsets me



Razorwing spam vs drone spam.
Like what?

What's the text version of the noise adults make when they talk on Peanuts? Womp? Yeah, this is pretty much that but for like...wayyyyyyyy too long.

did you get flamers auto hitting flyers due to their base?

Simple fix would be that a 12" range is added to all shooting attacks vs supersonic and such flyers

So we are discussing the lack of reality for our games of the far future?
Many things discussed here already had elements in prior editions.

Do we really need to discuss how some giant tank should be hard to shoot at from being "obscured"?
Maybe with some kind of setup/ambush rule I could roll with that but after the sucker starts shooting, the cover means squat (similar in absence to that race...).

That 50% rule I keep thinking of various "hull down" cover made specifically for tanks.


I do admit, being able to shoot from any part of the model is a bit of a "reality break" but makes sense for the ability to target "any part of the model" so they both go hand in hand: all or nothing.
Imagine the arguments of some 3/4 rule or something...

I do admit much of us seem to be well mixed between the "that unit is garbage" and "that unit is OP!".

I think it is not so silly from a game-play viewpoint.
Remember these rules are to give everyone something to play right from the start.
I will be interested to see as codexes roll out, if they will get more "realistic" or more "silly" as we indulge in the classic codex-creep.

I bought all the indexes so I at least have a reasonable base-line if things go all weird later.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
A heavily armed and armored space marine captain is advancing alone towards you, with both the intent and ability to tear your unit to shreds. You start to take aim at your impending doom, but your cultist squad buddy points out that, in the opposite direction, there is a guardsmen squad trying their best to look non-threatening while hiding in cover, and they are 1% closer to you than the captain. You completely forget about the angry marine to take shots at the guard.

Only in the shooting phase. Quit being so literal with rules interpretations....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Intruder wrote:
It's the dead of night. The Space Marine tactical squad moves up. The plasma cannon-toting giant in power armour aims downrange. He sees a shimmer. There! The ghostkeel and it's pesky stealth drones that are shrouding it. He fires.

Roll a d6. On a 1-5, his plasma cannon blows up and he dies. On a 6, he misses anyway.

Why is it blowing up?

 sfshilo wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Intruder wrote:
It's the dead of night. The Space Marine tactical squad moves up. The plasma cannon-toting giant in power armour aims downrange. He sees a shimmer. There! The ghostkeel and it's pesky stealth drones that are shrouding it. He fires.

Roll a d6. On a 1-5, his plasma cannon blows up and he dies. On a 6, he misses anyway.

Why is it blowing up?

-4 to hit. That's only if you overcharge it though . If you don't overcharge you still miss no matter what you roll.

I definitely have an issue in this edition with the way some people are interpreting abstract game mechanics in the most obtusely literal way they can to score imaginary points on the internet.

Like, Ork Bosses don't "fall on their face" when they fail a charge roll. That's not what the rule represents. You know that. Of course you do. But hey, winning the internet is important I suppose.

 sfshilo wrote:

 Intruder wrote:
It's the dead of night. The Space Marine tactical squad moves up. The plasma cannon-toting giant in power armour aims downrange. He sees a shimmer. There! The ghostkeel and it's pesky stealth drones that are shrouding it. He fires.

Roll a d6. On a 1-5, his plasma cannon blows up and he dies. On a 6, he misses anyway.

Why is it blowing up?

Something to do with "Gets Hot on a roll of 1" being 1 or less, even when modified.
So, it'll blow up on a 1 anyway,
Or, 1 or 2 if Night Fighting modifies a roll of 2 to be a 1.
And so on.

Again... I would have to say that the launch of 8th has also been the rise of TFG. It really does get worse with each edition, people are now deliberately misinterpreting rules and RAW just to try and make some obtuse point. Sad.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Plasma overheats more often at night. Moving Plasma at night makes it explode 50% of the time.

Harder to operate in hazardous conditions. Harder to get the proper setup if on the move constantly. Perhaps try to view it from a thematic angle rather than raw rules?

Overheating Plasma GUNS now instantly kills Razorbacks or any other vehicle with plasma weaponry despite vehicles not suffering "Gets Hot" since 3rd ed (maybe since before?) Overheating Heavy Plasma Cannons on Dreadnoughts however is totally fine and will only cause a scratch on the paintjob.

Vehicles have always suffered Gets Hot. This rendition sees Dreadnoughts and Leman Russes having specially designed heavy plasma weaponry while other vehicles appear to have done a botch job and just strapped it on. I'm pretty sure if I strap a leaky, prone to malfunction and hazardous weapon not specifically designed for a vehicle onto the vehicle it's going to have great results.

Flamethrowers don't work in overwatch if the assaulting unit assaults from 8.0000000001" away but do from 7.9999999999" away. Obviously the extra time it takes for the enemy to reach you gives them performance anxiety.

Or perhaps surprise that the enemy could get you from that far away. Considering the Average charge is going to be 7 sans modifiers (2D6 nets an average result of 7) I think Flamers are just fine.

A flamer is better at killing a plane flying a mile up and moving at mach 7 than it is killing unarmoured bugs in a ditch.

This is odd, I will give you that.

A Land Raider that is 50% obscured and inside terrain gets +1 to it's save, but if it's 99% obscured and even a single ℓP outside of the area terrain, no save bonus.

So drive that extra half an inch. It won't kill you.

Dried up balls of goo (Spore Mines) somehow are able to rip though all manner of magical protections, ceremite vehicle armour and make stuff that dodges really good suddenly unable to dodge.

Ah yes, because ninjas are famed for dodging mines with reflexes. Because armour is great against potent bio-acids. Magic protections that require immense concentration at times work so well when a tentacled fether jumps at your face and explodes.

You still crying about spore mines? Seriously, you play ORKS. You are crying about something that is S and T 1, with a 7+ save that can give up first blood kill points. And on average it does a single mortal wound. You run a gods damned horde army. Oh no, a single mortal wound on a 6 point Ork! DOOOOOOM!

To extend on the above, the aforementioned balls of goo will strip a wound off a TITAN on a 2+ when a lascannon can barely scratch it.

I'm sure the 30+ wound vehicle, some of which can regenerate wounds, is so concerned by that single wound suffered.

Cataphractii Terminators, lumbering literal behemoths unable to move faster than a brisk stroll suddenly TRIPLE in speed when there is something to punch way over there!

Amazing what momentum does.

When a Warboss and his Boyz who are well 'ard try and smash some 'umie skullz, the Warboss more often than not just trips over and faceplants, or decides that using his killy bitz wasn't all that fun anyway.

You're complaining about luck now and trying to say you should be exempt from chance and luck because of fluff. Really?

The usual complaint that there are so many re-roll miss auras but you can't take into account modifiers BEFORE re-rolling.

Suddenly you have to think about firing modes, positioning, what powers to try and deny - I know the influx of actual decisions to be made from 6th and 7th's potato modes must be a bit much for you.

Any more gems from 8th?

Almost every post you have made since.

Wow.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hollow wrote:
Again... I would have to say that the launch of 8th has also been the rise of TFG. It really does get worse with each edition, people are now deliberately misinterpreting rules and RAW just to try and make some obtuse point. Sad.

Quiet.
He might hear you.
TFG is right over there...

 Hollow wrote:
Again... I would have to say that the launch of 8th has also been the rise of TFG. It really does get worse with each edition, people are now deliberately misinterpreting rules and RAW just to try and make some obtuse point. Sad.

It's actually business as usual for Dakka. I still remember the infamous argument where a tank cannot shoot in 5th edition because it had no eyes to draw line of sight from, and how "Vision" and "line of sight" were totally different concepts because nothing in the rules directly tied them together.

If anything, this edition saw a reduction in the stupid, if only because the game devs actually released FAQs telling people to stop being stupid.

 Intruder wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Intruder wrote:
It's the dead of night. The Space Marine tactical squad moves up. The plasma cannon-toting giant in power armour aims downrange. He sees a shimmer. There! The ghostkeel and it's pesky stealth drones that are shrouding it. He fires.

Roll a d6. On a 1-5, his plasma cannon blows up and he dies. On a 6, he misses anyway.

Why is it blowing up?

-4 to hit. That's only if you overcharge it though . If you don't overcharge you still miss no matter what you roll.

Holy wtf?
I didn't know things were that bad.
Gw needs to distinguish natural ones from modified.
What a cluster


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DanielFM wrote:
Shooting at night is considerably more stressful than doing it by daylight. The same for stationary vs moving. Overheating not only include mechanical but human failure. See? Took two minutes to make sense out of it

It took two minutes to create a fluff justification. Doesn't change the fact that Plasma Guns detonating more often at night or when firing at specific types of targets is an unintended consequence of a badly written rule needs to be reversed immediately.

So much this.
I was gonna buy the hardcover rules but after this sort of thing plus so many revisions plus bad stories, marines without beaks and no useful cover I decided to wait for next year.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
Again... I would have to say that the launch of 8th has also been the rise of TFG. It really does get worse with each edition, people are now deliberately misinterpreting rules and RAW just to try and make some obtuse point. Sad.

It's actually business as usual for Dakka. I still remember the infamous argument where a tank cannot shoot in 5th edition because it had no eyes to draw line of sight from, and how "Vision" and "line of sight" were totally different concepts because nothing in the rules directly tied them together.

If anything, this edition saw a reduction in the stupid, if only because the game devs actually released FAQs telling people to stop being stupid.

Ah the days of Terminators not wearing Terminator armour and Drop Pods giving up half VPs the moment they're put on the board. Good times.