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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




SemperMortis wrote:
XC18 wrote:


SemperMortis wrote:
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.


Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls

What’s the consensus on trukk boys +1 to hit going to Tankbustas? Yeah or nay?
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






SemperMortis wrote:
XC18 wrote:


SemperMortis wrote:
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.


Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls


....but at 24" range, 0 cp, and a microscopic bit less to hit (50% vs 55%) - I'll take it!

Tankbustas on the move with a non-shooty kultur hit 6.6 times, old tankbustas hit 5.5 times. Not even to mention theyre now T5.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

i almost never used tankbusta bombs before, even on boyz.
Why? Almost never in 6" unless im in melee.

Sure, it happened from time to time, but i'd go multiple games without tossing a single one

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 22:27:57


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine




UK

gungo wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
XC18 wrote:


SemperMortis wrote:
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.


Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls

What’s the consensus on trukk boys +1 to hit going to Tankbustas? Yeah or nay?

Yeah it would work, but is really quite limited as a decent size Tankbusta unit would limit you to either an expensive Warboss or Waagh banner to share the transport. The shooty Megamek build might be a good shout though to slip in with regular Boyz (or Megamek, Lootas and Waagh banner).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Insularum wrote:
gungo wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
XC18 wrote:


SemperMortis wrote:
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.


Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls

What’s the consensus on trukk boys +1 to hit going to Tankbustas? Yeah or nay?

Yeah it would work, but is really quite limited as a decent size Tankbusta unit would limit you to either an expensive Warboss or Waagh banner to share the transport. The shooty Megamek build might be a good shout though to slip in with regular Boyz (or Megamek, Lootas and Waagh banner).

Why would you need anyone else in the trukk?
Just put 12 tankbustas in it… there is no point to disembark unless you want to put in a pair of tankhammers in it and a pair of bomb squigs(no longer take up transport slot) and use the tankbusta bomb strat… to blow up a Knight or something huge.
That’s 2d6+2d3+2d3 mortal wounds that all hit on a 2+ on a vehicle or 3+ on anything else. Not counting the 9d3 rokkits hitting on a 4+ on a vehicle or 5+ anything else.

I mean trukk boys makes them strong, but the real issue is they are overpriced and this build isn’t worth the 250pts it cost unless the Meta turns into imperial knight spam again.

However specialist units are broken BUT under the current rules you can theoretically have 5-7 nob trukk boys in a trukk and 5-7 (badmoon or whatever) tankbustas in the same trukk and since the trukk gets +1 to hit under the trukk boys specialist rules as long as the nobs are embarked technically the tankbustas would as well..but that’s some unintended shenanigans.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 23:23:52


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 the_scotsman wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
XC18 wrote:


SemperMortis wrote:
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.


Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls


....but at 24" range, 0 cp, and a microscopic bit less to hit (50% vs 55%) - I'll take it!

Tankbustas on the move with a non-shooty kultur hit 6.6 times, old tankbustas hit 5.5 times. Not even to mention theyre now T5.


Yeah, but when you add in the kulture and the strats it became ridiculous.

10D3 shots = 20 on average. For my army I ran Freeboota's so when my opponent didn't pop my trukk filled with tankbustas this was the AVERAGE damage output vs a Knight. 20 shots, 10 initial hits and 3ish DDD for 1.5 more hits, 10 rerolls for another 5 hits and 1.6 more DDD for .8 hits. Total of 17ish hits. Against T8 thats 8.5 wounds against a 5++ thats 5.66 failed saves and averages just about 20dmg.

10 tankbustas now at range have to move so lose their +1 to hit but gain it back from Freebootas, So 20 shots, 10 hits, 5 wounds 3.3 go through for 11.6dmg.

Add in stratagems they both have access too and the dmg swings even heavier for the Tankbusta Bombs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 00:38:44


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut




Hong Kong

Since we're comparing 24" range rokkit launcher with 6"range Busta bomb, you should assume that the tankbustas don't need to move to shoot the knight with launchers, so it's more like 3+ to hit in freebotta.

Anyway, the point was that one costed 1cp and happened once in a while , while the other is free and -with proper play- can maybe happen once or twice every game.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

A thought occurred...

Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances.
W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things.
190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.

Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 02:09:15


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






thats actualy a pretty cool idea now, I like it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
XC18 wrote:
Since we're comparing 24" range rokkit launcher with 6"range Busta bomb, you should assume that the tankbustas don't need to move to shoot the knight with launchers, so it's more like 3+ to hit in freebotta.

Anyway, the point was that one costed 1cp and happened once in a while , while the other is free and -with proper play- can maybe happen once or twice every game.


also, oh nooo, one yu-gi-oh esque super combo mega trap card has been removed from the game, how terrible...

oh noooo, a character fighting three times in a turn to demolish 300% of his value has been removed from the game, that's awful...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 02:24:56


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




 the_scotsman wrote:

also, oh nooo, one yu-gi-oh esque super combo mega trap card has been removed from the game, how terrible...

oh noooo, a character fighting three times in a turn to demolish 300% of his value has been removed from the game, that's awful...



There's nothing trap-cardy about the concept "being near orks is a bad idea in more ways than one" when it comes to tankbusta bombs, both from Boys squads and from Tankbustas.
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine




UK

gungo wrote:
 Insularum wrote:
gungo wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
XC18 wrote:


SemperMortis wrote:
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.


Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls

What’s the consensus on trukk boys +1 to hit going to Tankbustas? Yeah or nay?

Yeah it would work, but is really quite limited as a decent size Tankbusta unit would limit you to either an expensive Warboss or Waagh banner to share the transport. The shooty Megamek build might be a good shout though to slip in with regular Boyz (or Megamek, Lootas and Waagh banner).

Why would you need anyone else in the trukk?
Just put 12 tankbustas in it… there is no point to disembark unless you want to put in a pair of tankhammers in it and a pair of bomb squigs(no longer take up transport slot) and use the tankbusta bomb strat… to blow up a Knight or something huge.
That’s 2d6+2d3+2d3 mortal wounds that all hit on a 2+ on a vehicle or 3+ on anything else. Not counting the 9d3 rokkits hitting on a 4+ on a vehicle or 5+ anything else.

I mean trukk boys makes them strong, but the real issue is they are overpriced and this build isn’t worth the 250pts it cost unless the Meta turns into imperial knight spam again.

However specialist units are broken BUT under the current rules you can theoretically have 5-7 nob trukk boys in a trukk and 5-7 (badmoon or whatever) tankbustas in the same trukk and since the trukk gets +1 to hit under the trukk boys specialist rules as long as the nobs are embarked technically the tankbustas would as well..but that’s some unintended shenanigans.

Tankbustas cannot themselves take Trukk boyz as they are not a <Boyz>/<Nob>/<Warboss> unit, you would need to share the Trukk with a small unit capable of taking the specialist mob, then you would get the additional +1 to hit on everything in the transport. A Waagh banner nob isn't totally rubbish for this as he would be replacing his +1 to hit melee aura for +1 to hit trukk based shooting - but it is all overpriced.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 Insularum wrote:
gungo wrote:
 Insularum wrote:
gungo wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
XC18 wrote:


SemperMortis wrote:
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.


Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls

What’s the consensus on trukk boys +1 to hit going to Tankbustas? Yeah or nay?

Yeah it would work, but is really quite limited as a decent size Tankbusta unit would limit you to either an expensive Warboss or Waagh banner to share the transport. The shooty Megamek build might be a good shout though to slip in with regular Boyz (or Megamek, Lootas and Waagh banner).

Why would you need anyone else in the trukk?
Just put 12 tankbustas in it… there is no point to disembark unless you want to put in a pair of tankhammers in it and a pair of bomb squigs(no longer take up transport slot) and use the tankbusta bomb strat… to blow up a Knight or something huge.
That’s 2d6+2d3+2d3 mortal wounds that all hit on a 2+ on a vehicle or 3+ on anything else. Not counting the 9d3 rokkits hitting on a 4+ on a vehicle or 5+ anything else.

I mean trukk boys makes them strong, but the real issue is they are overpriced and this build isn’t worth the 250pts it cost unless the Meta turns into imperial knight spam again.

However specialist units are broken BUT under the current rules you can theoretically have 5-7 nob trukk boys in a trukk and 5-7 (badmoon or whatever) tankbustas in the same trukk and since the trukk gets +1 to hit under the trukk boys specialist rules as long as the nobs are embarked technically the tankbustas would as well..but that’s some unintended shenanigans.

Tankbustas cannot themselves take Trukk boyz as they are not a <Boyz>/<Nob>/<Warboss> unit, you would need to share the Trukk with a small unit capable of taking the specialist mob, then you would get the additional +1 to hit on everything in the transport. A Waagh banner nob isn't totally rubbish for this as he would be replacing his +1 to hit melee aura for +1 to hit trukk based shooting - but it is all overpriced.


You wouldn't as only units with this culture get the +1 to hit bonus.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Vineheart01 wrote:
A thought occurred...

Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances.
W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things.
190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.

Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.

I think y’all missed my memo on squiggoths
They are becoming beast snagga only models..
Why do I say this?
We have a strat that only works on “beastsnagga” “monster” units…
and there is NO beastsnagga monster units in our codex..
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






n/m answered before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zompa wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:

also, oh nooo, one yu-gi-oh esque super combo mega trap card has been removed from the game, how terrible...

oh noooo, a character fighting three times in a turn to demolish 300% of his value has been removed from the game, that's awful...



There's nothing trap-cardy about the concept "being near orks is a bad idea in more ways than one" when it comes to tankbusta bombs, both from Boys squads and from Tankbustas.


Anything that vastly multiplied your damage for CP is and was bad for the game and GW is creating a vastly better game by curbing those things from 9th edition codices.

With DG losing their grenade combo, did anyone really expect orks to keep it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
A thought occurred...

Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances.
W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things.
190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.

Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.

I think y’all missed my memo on squiggoths
They are becoming beast snagga only models..
Why do I say this?
We have a strat that only works on “beastsnagga” “monster” units…
and there is NO beastsnagga monster units in our codex..


The other explanation would be that they meant to have it work for kill rigs, then later found out that you can't tellyport them if they are monsters, moved them to vehicles and broke the other stratagem

Also claiming that they will become "beast snagga only" is quite a far leap, just because kill rigs are that way. In any case, if they actually become full-fledged beast snagga models, this would be quite a buff for them.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 11:55:25


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I expect basically any 'I use this strat, and then I use that strat, and I can stack up to 3x/4x damage!' combo to be either removed from the game or greatly, greatly reduced in impact.

and good fething riddance. I just wish they'd do it all at once and that they hadn't stuck with the dirt-stupid nine billion strats/relics/traits SM supplement model. Now we have to deal with an entire edition of every marine player whinging on and on and on about having to pay for all the invisible power that gets added to the imbalanceable mess of their gigantic uber megafaction.

Whoops, sorry, we gave Blood Angels a chapter trait and combat doctrine and warlord traits and stratagems and psychic powers and relics that make melee units really really really really powerful, so sadly, every marine melee unit has to be overcosted for you, imp fists, tough luck!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 12:41:45


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut




TedNugent wrote:
pepi55 wrote:
How much of a waste would a squad of skorcha nobz with pyro specialist mob in a trukk be?

Im wondering about a squad of 5 nobz + 5 burna boiz in a trukk racing around the battlefield harassing units.

270pts for a relatively fragile unit wreaking havoc
or 290pts for a slightly more durable variant doesnt sound bad?

The pyros can still fire while in the trukk and CC right? or was that only for the trukk weapons?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im specifically more interested in making the 5 skorcha nobz work since I have one such squad and it'd be a shame if they were to gather dust on the shelf for an entire edition


Math shows Skorcha is exactly double the damage output of a burna.

So for 55 points you'd be able to get 4 burnas plus a spannas versus 56 points for two nobz with Skorchas. You'd be better off taking only one unit and maxing out the benefit from pyromaniacs.

Skorchas provide some benefit as far as concentration of firepower in a transport, but burnas get spannas that have big Shootas and can also repair the transport.


So in short, skorcha nobz are going to enjoy the view from the shelf this edition?
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






They've never been optimal, so why not run them anyways. If anything, skorchas nobz are better than they used to be. Well, maybe 5th skorchas were better but still not an optimal unit by any means.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 13:15:49


 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




pepi55 wrote:

So in short, skorcha nobz are going to enjoy the view from the shelf this edition?


The only instance i can think of them being good was in 5th as Warbiker Nobz, assuming I remember correctly and the Bike Upgrade didn't mess up their ranged weapon options.
But even then since you were already giving everyone you could a Power Klaw and mixed equipment to spread wounds around it wasn't really what you aimed for.

Flamers are fun but paying 30+ points for them on a footslogging, slow and relatively frail platform is simply never going to work. Stick to a cheap burna unit on a Trukk if you want to get the feel (and regret you'll never have the fun of dropping 12 flamer templates on a bunched up Daemonettes unit dealing around 130 wounds to them)
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Zompa wrote:
pepi55 wrote:

So in short, skorcha nobz are going to enjoy the view from the shelf this edition?


The only instance i can think of them being good was in 5th as Warbiker Nobz, assuming I remember correctly and the Bike Upgrade didn't mess up their ranged weapon options.
But even then since you were already giving everyone you could a Power Klaw and mixed equipment to spread wounds around it wasn't really what you aimed for.

Flamers are fun but paying 30+ points for them on a footslogging, slow and relatively frail platform is simply never going to work. Stick to a cheap burna unit on a Trukk if you want to get the feel (and regret you'll never have the fun of dropping 12 flamer templates on a bunched up Daemonettes unit dealing around 130 wounds to them)


awwww, you mentioned how fun old burna boyz were to use and now i'm sad :(

"now take the number of models under this template and mulitply by 10..."

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

gungo wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
A thought occurred...

Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances.
W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things.
190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.

Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.

I think y’all missed my memo on squiggoths
They are becoming beast snagga only models..
Why do I say this?
We have a strat that only works on “beastsnagga” “monster” units…
and there is NO beastsnagga monster units in our codex..


No i saw your memo and i ignored it.
It makes ZERO SENSE to retroactively change a unit to suddenly have a massive restriction. Especially when they have NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE. Even more especially when its a FW model that isnt even that popular since its fugly as hell.

Squiggoths are not going to be beastsnagga only. I'd be shocked if they even get Squig keyword.

That strat can easily be 2 things: 1) meant for the Rig and they fethed up (add it to the pile!) or 2) futureproofing for when we get rampaging squigosaurs w/o a boss on top. Its always possible theres another unit that either they purposely held back or decided wasnt ready to be shipped so they snipped it out of this release.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 13:28:02


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

Notes from my victory over Custodies yesterday. 78-40

DakkaJet if played right will make its points back, even against high saves like the Custodies

Deep Striking deffkoptas is fun and against a low model count army such as Custodies I can drop my unit of 5 nearly anywhere and pepper a hard target full of rockets, and then drown them in dice on the charge during the Waaagghh.

Goff MANZ with 2x killsaws will remove anything they look at in melee AS LONG AS THEY GET TO FIGHT FIRST. Play them smart on your turn 2 as your opponent will be wise to interrupt them and swing before they can.

Ghaz continues to make his points back every game, and is an absolute nuisance to deal with for most of my opponents.

T5 certainly helps boyz but they still seem to not last very long.

Small units of stormboyz work very well for positioning a combo charge (they can fly behind your target and not get in the way of things coming out of transports. They are also great for zipping around grabbing objectives or secondaries.

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






pepi55 wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
pepi55 wrote:
How much of a waste would a squad of skorcha nobz with pyro specialist mob in a trukk be?

Im wondering about a squad of 5 nobz + 5 burna boiz in a trukk racing around the battlefield harassing units.

270pts for a relatively fragile unit wreaking havoc
or 290pts for a slightly more durable variant doesnt sound bad?

The pyros can still fire while in the trukk and CC right? or was that only for the trukk weapons?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im specifically more interested in making the 5 skorcha nobz work since I have one such squad and it'd be a shame if they were to gather dust on the shelf for an entire edition


Math shows Skorcha is exactly double the damage output of a burna.

So for 55 points you'd be able to get 4 burnas plus a spannas versus 56 points for two nobz with Skorchas. You'd be better off taking only one unit and maxing out the benefit from pyromaniacs.

Skorchas provide some benefit as far as concentration of firepower in a transport, but burnas get spannas that have big Shootas and can also repair the transport.


So in short, skorcha nobz are going to enjoy the view from the shelf this edition?


Like I said, if you look purely at the shooting, it's basically the same cost for four burnas versus two skorchas. And each skorcha is roughly equal to two burnas in terms of damage output. So you're the only loss in shooting output would come from the big shootas and losing the 1 wound repair each turn.

So, you could take a smaller squad of skorchas that would be equivalent to a full size unit of burnas, or you could take a bigger squad of skorchas and get more concentrated fire for more points (e.g. tellyporta).

You could also just sprinkle some in a boyz or a nobz unit. A skorcha does roughly double the damage output of a boyz unit in the shooting phase, and 12" is longer range than the 9" dakka range anyway. You just wouldn't be able to take a klaw.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
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 koooaei wrote:
They've never been optimal, so why not run them anyways. If anything, skorchas nobz are better than they used to be. Well, maybe 5th skorchas were better but still not an optimal unit by any means.


Then why even give them that option... what are they supposed to do with skorchas? was it supposed to be a 1of upgrade in a squad or something? what is the purpose of the skorcha on the nobz sprue?
   
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Kombi Skorcha on nobz/meganobz USED to be an amazing choice in the past.
Flamers as a whole have kinda fallen from grace. Gotta remember the nob kit is fairly old

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
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 Vineheart01 wrote:
gungo wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
A thought occurred...

Squiggoths count the embarked as not moving unless it advances.
W/o a kannon, squiggoths transport 10 things.
190pts, T8, 18w, 3+ save, can maul the crap out of anything thatdares get close.

Wonder how valuable that howdah is now that rokkits are heavy, previously all that could really care is Flash Gitz or Lootas, but Lootas demanded strats (that dont exist now, also can now use a normal trukk anyway) and Flash Gitz cost so much that this became an insanely pristine target, tankbustas at least are ~100pts less.

I think y’all missed my memo on squiggoths
They are becoming beast snagga only models..
Why do I say this?
We have a strat that only works on “beastsnagga” “monster” units…
and there is NO beastsnagga monster units in our codex..


No i saw your memo and i ignored it.
It makes ZERO SENSE to retroactively change a unit to suddenly have a massive restriction. Especially when they have NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE. Even more especially when its a FW model that isnt even that popular since its fugly as hell.

Squiggoths are not going to be beastsnagga only. I'd be shocked if they even get Squig keyword.

That strat can easily be 2 things: 1) meant for the Rig and they fethed up (add it to the pile!) or 2) futureproofing for when we get rampaging squigosaurs w/o a boss on top. Its always possible theres another unit that either they purposely held back or decided wasnt ready to be shipped so they snipped it out of this release.
I mean they did say in the last preview these were the last new ork models but sure we will go with the adding keywords for models that don’t exist like every other example such as ……. I mean it’s obvious not the current squiggoth which already has the monster keyword and os a giant squig… but sure we will go with your theory. Conspiracy theories are popular now a days because if you just ignore something that means it doesn’t exist amirite?

Regarding never changing models to add massive restrictions. I mean there was a lot of that.. from straight up removing the entire transport capacity of models like the vendetta. To changing every space marine transport to restrict them from transporting primarus but sure other then those examples and others it’s never happened.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 14:22:41


 
   
Made in us
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Nebraska, USA

claiming i've got the conspiracy theories and you dont when the first point i had is extremely common and your evidence has never happened is pretty funny, not gonna lie.
The only thing FW has ever been updated with is the army-wide keywords needed to even function at all with the new codex. Nothing else.

There are at least 8 severe mistakes in this codex, whats a 9th one? (severe as in either flatout broken or extremely confusing, not just dumb decisions)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 14:19:12


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Vineheart01 wrote:
claiming i've got the conspiracy theories and you dont when the first point i had is extremely common and your evidence has never happened is pretty funny, not gonna lie.
The only thing FW has ever been updated with is the army-wide keywords needed to even function at all with the new codex. Nothing else.

There are at least 8 severe mistakes in this codex, whats a 9th one? (severe as in either flatout broken or extremely confusing, not just dumb decisions)

I mean I do have the monster and beast snagga key word and you have diddly squat..
And I do have the many many times gw/fw straight up added restrictions to transports. From literally removing all transport capacity on the vendetta, to adding restrictions on all the space marine vehicles, to the several times they added and removed terminators as viable transport options. I believe there was a point trukks couldn’t transport meganobs and there was a point where Gw just randomly said ogryns couldn’t use a chimera. So yeaaa but it’s never happened other then those examples.
   
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pepi55 wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
They've never been optimal, so why not run them anyways. If anything, skorchas nobz are better than they used to be. Well, maybe 5th skorchas were better but still not an optimal unit by any means.


Then why even give them that option... what are they supposed to do with skorchas? was it supposed to be a 1of upgrade in a squad or something? what is the purpose of the skorcha on the nobz sprue?


Because before the current dark times of "This kit only has this weapon and you'll either like it or go play something else", wargear was pretty much a free-for-all for most HQ's and since Nobz (kinda like Chosen for Chaos and Sternguard for marines) get the first pick of the loot right after the Warboss they always had the chance to grab wathever they liked best and in game that's represented by being able to get every special weapon you want on each one of them.

Not all options are meant to be "competitive" since it's nice to leave the spot open for someone wanting a narrative team of Nobz or simply a "take all comers unit" (the latter feeling weaker now because flamers aren't really that good but when templates were still a thing having a couple of combi-HEAVY-flamers in a squad skyrocketed them in threat potential against light infantry since it meant you could punish them hard with it).
Giving three flamers to a squad of 10 nobz today will just make your charge longer but 10 years ago it was a wise move to make sure they could erase veichles/instakill charachters with their Klaws (just a couple were more than enough to cleave through anything short of a land rider 99% of the times) or erase a small squad of infantry by dropping three flame-templates.

Just because the game as it stands pushes toward specializing units doesn't mean that subpar options are bad, they're simply waiting for their time and THANK Gork & Mork that they haven't cut them down yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 14:40:12


 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




I see. I will still try to run 'em because I like the models and put significant effort into getting a squad of 5 skorchas.

So something related to this:
- do embarked units profit from the shooting while in CC rule or is it specifically for vehicles only? I dont have a BRB (yet) so I cant really check this
- can I re-roll skorcha/burna hits with the new DS klan or is the kultur useless for flamer type weapons?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asking cause I cant decide between blood axes for fallback & roast or sticking to DS to profit from the new D6 autohits

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 14:48:56


 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






pepi55 wrote:
I see. I will still try to run 'em because I like the models and put significant effort into getting a squad of 5 skorchas.

So something related to this:
- do embarked units profit from the shooting while in CC rule or is it specifically for vehicles only? I dont have a BRB (yet) so I cant really check this
- can I re-roll skorcha/burna hits with the new DS klan or is the kultur useless for flamer type weapons?


Embarked units can only shoot in CC presuming it is open-topped when they are using pistols only. So you can't fire your kombi skorchas into combat while in a trukk.

You can only reroll the to-wound roll for skorcha/burnas, not the actual amount of hits fired by them with DS.
   
 
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