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Unless you were going Ctan hunting.

I used to rather like going on safari against a fellow Necron player, looking to mount a Star-God's bonce on the wall

I like to think of dead men walking. That's how I see necrons and I lime where it took them. The warrior squads went massive but quite small and hard to kill. That was cool. It would suck if with the rumored transports that they become half guard have old flavor necrons.

People seem to complain necrons only have 1 (well 2) vehicles but that's what made the army unique. Don't take that away, and don't let us spam vehicles. That's not a necron trait!

I really don't get the no vehicle movement amongst necron players. I agree that they should not be analagous with other races craft, but I kinda like the idea of a smaller 'lith portal screaming around spitting out squads of necron warriors in areas bad for your opponant. I also like the idea of a lord having his own 'Skeletor' chariot to bimble about in, though the mini will have to be better than the chibli-hawk to convince me.

I wish I did not buy a tau force now!!

Reflex wrote:I like to think of dead men walking. That's how I see necrons and I lime where it took them. The warrior squads went massive but quite small and hard to kill. That was cool. It would suck if with the rumored transports that they become half guard have old flavor necrons.

People seem to complain necrons only have 1 (well 2) vehicles but that's what made the army unique. Don't take that away, and don't let us spam vehicles. That's not a necron trait!

If there are Vehicles in the codex, you don't have to take them. There are a lot of Necron Players (Myself Included) That WANT the option to take vehicles and transports. There is 0 reason why we should be relegated to a single style of play, which is pretty much what it is right now.

Sasori wrote:

Reflex wrote:I like to think of dead men walking. That's how I see necrons and I lime where it took them. The warrior squads went massive but quite small and hard to kill. That was cool. It would suck if with the rumored transports that they become half guard have old flavor necrons.

People seem to complain necrons only have 1 (well 2) vehicles but that's what made the army unique. Don't take that away, and don't let us spam vehicles. That's not a necron trait!

If there are Vehicles in the codex, you don't have to take them. There are a lot of Necron Players (Myself Included) That WANT the option to take vehicles and transports. There is 0 reason why we should be relegated to a single style of play, which is pretty much what it is right now.

Yeah, GW's Codex design these days seems to be intended to cater for a wide variety of builds and playstyles. Unfortunately this does mean that some people may 'abuse' the options by 'spamming' units, but variety is the spice of life and all that.

A single style? That would be what? While there is a mega difference between effective lists and non effective lists, for the purpose of this argument that will be irrelevant. There is: warrior horde, wraithwing, destroyer wing, phalanx and mc list.

I'd say that's more then one playstyle.

What I was trying to say in my post, and what I was unclear about, was that a 35-75 point transport would turn necrons into a mash up of guard and spesh mureheeens. That's super flavorsome and totally what crons are about. A vehicle that is a portal is a different kettle of fish. But either way, necrons have never tasted like then need tons of veichles. They have 2, the monolith and pylon. If you got into crons for and are a tread head, seriously gtfo because necrons don't need transports! A few tanks I get, but full mech crons tastes as awesome as lame cake. Not even fat kids would eat that.

Why take the bus when you can be zaped there in an instant.
To sum up: an obelisk type gun tank, Ye cool. A portal tank, yea ok, makes sense. The parking lot at your local super market? Gtfo...

Unix wrote:

targetawg wrote:

Unix wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:
If it becomes required to buy more models to play the game, particularly different ones that are outside the theme or concept you like, at least if you'd like to play competitively, then yes, it is a bad thing. If I'm going from running Skynet to running the skeletons from Army of Darkness, there's a big change, it might not be something I like, and that's bad for the game if it drives players away. It would have been better to take the concept of an army of undead, and start a new codex.

I think that's the thing that bothers me most about these rumors. I've played necrons since second edition and I like the feel of a small implacable force. While people called them a MEQ army WBB made them far harder than that and if these rumors are true the math indicates that they will essentially be a MEQ equivalent army (it will just require two rolls to have a 3+ save instead of one). Necron Warriors used to be the most durable basic troop, now they'll be easier to kill than Plague Marines and Thousand Sons and as easy to kill as any basic marine.

Personally I don't care if they a dozen units that I think are completely out of character. I can choose not to use a new unit and if they wanted to add a new less resistant basic troop I would have been fine with that. To completely change the character of the army is another thing. It would be the equivalent of marines only having a 4+ save in the next codex. It wouldn't matter if they only cost 10 pts. people would be pissed. It seems to me that the way the opinions are breaking down are largely upon these lines; if you're a current Necron player you're less than enthused about the rumored changes, if you don't play Necrons you're intrigued by the new flavor of the day.

You'd be mistaken then: I'm a current necron player, and I love the way the rumors are sounding. They're a terrible MEQ-ish army at the moment with very little flavor of their own and even less variety. When I looked at Necrons, the fluff always screamed to me not "can't be killed" but "unending". Sure, you can shoot down a necron, but he might just get right back up, and if not, it's a huge shambling horde, it's still going to get there. This fits that.

Just because you're a Necron player that doesn't fit my model doesn't make me wrong (or right for that matter). That's why I framed it with "opinions are breaking down LARGELY upon these lines." Considering that this thread has 10 pages of Matt Ward sucks posts from current Necron players I would argue that a good percentage of people are not happy about the rumors. As for the fluff they were always presented as a small raiding or now just waking army. Only in the recent Black Library books when the Necrons were facing off against space marines have they appeared vulnerable, but frankly in the black library books space marines have defeated titans one on one so I've never really tried to equate the books to game terms.

But the opinions don't largely break down as you said. I've read the entire thread as well, from the start, and most people seem happy. The only point I've seen people whine about consistently is the "ctan getting killed by necrons". Which we don't know if it's even true. Most people are saying they're LESS MEQ then the were before, which is true. Before they were: marine statline, marine save, one basic bolter esque gun, price of a veteran marine. Now they're a marine statline, 4+ save, cheap, with a better "you can't ever negate this WBB suckah" roll.

All the rest of the hate has just been the standard "Matt Ward?1! (insert insult utilizing a piece of the word ward)" hate-fest that always comes up if his name is mentioned. It's like throwing raw meat to a pack of dogs..

Reflex wrote:A single style? That would be what? While there is a mega difference between effective lists and non effective lists, for the purpose of this argument that will be irrelevant. There is: warrior horde, wraithwing, destroyer wing, phalanx and mc list.

I'd say that's more then one playstyle.

Following the FOC requirements:

How many different lists can you build with necrons at 500 points?

Now, how many different lists can you build with EVERY OTHER ARMY at 500 points?

Replace points value with any amount.

Reflex wrote:A single style? That would be what? While there is a mega difference between effective lists and non effective lists, for the purpose of this argument that will be irrelevant. There is: warrior horde, wraithwing, destroyer wing, phalanx and mc list.

I'd say that's more then one playstyle.

What I was trying to say in my post, and what I was unclear about, was that a 35-75 point transport would turn necrons into a mash up of guard and spesh mureheeens. That's super flavorsome and totally what crons are about. A vehicle that is a portal is a different kettle of fish. But either way, necrons have never tasted like then need tons of veichles. They have 2, the monolith and pylon. If you got into crons for and are a tread head, seriously gtfo because necrons don't need transports! A few tanks I get, but full mech crons tastes as awesome as lame cake. Not even fat kids would eat that.

Why take the bus when you can be zaped there in an instant.
To sum up: an obelisk type gun tank, Ye cool. A portal tank, yea ok, makes sense. The parking lot at your local super market? Gtfo...

I'm not seeing your "effective and non effective". There are ZERO effective necron lists at present. The only one thats even playable is the monolith spam list that forces draws (yay...forcing draws...). Those may be different playstyles, but they're all ineffective. You can always make a 100 different playstyles if you play every different combo of junk options.

As far as real "builds" necrons have now? 1 to none.

And if warriors get to be 12 points and scarabs are the anti-armor nuts we're hearing about, the best build will likely be some sort of foot list!

I for one have played 'crons for a loonnnngg time, and would love the option run barges of the undead, slowly hovering closer to the enemy, or to run a foot list, or etc etc.

Whilst I'm not entirely sold on the idea of transports (I'd prefer it if they were portal-like, like the Monolith, it does also kind of suit the harvester theme and to a larger extent the suggested idea of the Cron's expanding outside of tomb-worlds and into occupied space, where they can't rely on the likes of teleporting and stationary pylons as much...

I hope thos rumors all will end up in the warp as some kind of embarrassing joke that isn't even funny.

The changes in rules and stats would be the worst thing that would happen to the necrons since the release of 5th ed of rules, the whole idea seem to be just "Oh, make the warriors more crap, take the immortals to troops, give them warrior statline and screw them all more with ridiculous WBB change" another idea with destroyers being jump infantry=WTF!?
If it turn to be true my whole necron army goes ebay and i will quit the hobby.

Kevin949 wrote:

Reflex wrote:A single style? That would be what? While there is a mega difference between effective lists and non effective lists, for the purpose of this argument that will be irrelevant. There is: warrior horde, wraithwing, destroyer wing, phalanx and mc list.

I'd say that's more then one playstyle.

Following the FOC requirements:

How many different lists can you build with necrons at 500 points?

Now, how many different lists can you build with EVERY OTHER ARMY at 500 points?

Replace points value with any amount.

Please don't use this argument. 40k is designed around 1500points not 500.

targetawg wrote:

Reflex wrote:A single style? That would be what? While there is a mega difference between effective lists and non effective lists, for the purpose of this argument that will be irrelevant. There is: warrior horde, wraithwing, destroyer wing, phalanx and mc list.

I'd say that's more then one playstyle.

What I was trying to say in my post, and what I was unclear about, was that a 35-75 point transport would turn necrons into a mash up of guard and spesh mureheeens. That's super flavorsome and totally what crons are about. A vehicle that is a portal is a different kettle of fish. But either way, necrons have never tasted like then need tons of veichles. They have 2, the monolith and pylon. If you got into crons for and are a tread head, seriously gtfo because necrons don't need transports! A few tanks I get, but full mech crons tastes as awesome as lame cake. Not even fat kids would eat that.

Why take the bus when you can be zaped there in an instant.
To sum up: an obelisk type gun tank, Ye cool. A portal tank, yea ok, makes sense. The parking lot at your local super market? Gtfo...

I'm not seeing your "effective and non effective". There are ZERO effective necron lists at present. The only one thats even playable is the monolith spam list that forces draws (yay...forcing draws...). Those may be different playstyles, but they're all ineffective. You can always make a 100 different playstyles if you play every different combo of junk options.

As far as real "builds" necrons have now? 1 to none.

And if warriors get to be 12 points and scarabs are the anti-armor nuts we're hearing about, the best build will likely be some sort of foot list!

I for one have played 'crons for a loonnnngg time, and would love the option run barges of the undead, slowly hovering closer to the enemy, or to run a foot list, or etc etc.

I'd love to have an update to. But battle droids from starwars belong in starwars. And I'd hardly say destroyerwing is ineffective. While not top tier it can smash out some serious pain.

I always did wonder how the Necrons transported the captured human blanks.

Is it directly known that these transports will carry their cargo like rhinios? Or could it possibly mean they can portal units up to 15 models? =/ that's my only thought on keeping the army from going rhino happy.

Kurgash wrote:Is it directly known that these transports will carry their cargo like rhinios? Or could it possibly mean they can portal units up to 15 models? =/ that's my only thought on keeping the army from going rhino happy.

AFAIK the rumours pointed at the former, rather than the latter, which suggests it working like ordinary transports. Will have to wait and see though, like all things...

I think it might fit their "theme". Though they can teleport, why not bring another scary war-machine to the fray? Seeing as they are supposed to be engaged in bigger battles, rather than just raids, it makes sense. Also I doubt that they can teleport everywhere they want. What's stopping them from teleporting directly to Terra, Eldar Craftworlds, etc?

Destrado wrote:I think it might fit their "theme". Though they can teleport, why not bring another scary war-machine to the fray? Seeing as they are supposed to be engaged in bigger battles, rather than just raids, it makes sense. Also I doubt that they can teleport everywhere they want. What's stopping them from teleporting directly to Terra, Eldar Craftworlds, etc?

1. Necrons can teleport from planet to planet with ease, it's how they repair when they fail a WBB. They teleport to the nearest convenient tombworld, which if they're on a ship in space isn't exactly accessible.
2. They don't teleport onto Terra because of common sense. No matter how strong their forces, they'd get wiped. It'd be far easier to assail the Solar System with spacecraft, systematically taking down the defences with their superior technology.
3. New vehicles are a good thing, apart from the monetary price. Transports don't fit their fluff, and that's the problem people are having. It might make them stronger in game terms, but if you debase it to just rules and points, what's the point in having the different races and backgrounds?

targetawg wrote:

Reflex wrote:A single style? That would be what? While there is a mega difference between effective lists and non effective lists, for the purpose of this argument that will be irrelevant. There is: warrior horde, wraithwing, destroyer wing, phalanx and mc list.

I'd say that's more then one playstyle.

What I was trying to say in my post, and what I was unclear about, was that a 35-75 point transport would turn necrons into a mash up of guard and spesh mureheeens. That's super flavorsome and totally what crons are about. A vehicle that is a portal is a different kettle of fish. But either way, necrons have never tasted like then need tons of veichles. They have 2, the monolith and pylon. If you got into crons for and are a tread head, seriously gtfo because necrons don't need transports! A few tanks I get, but full mech crons tastes as awesome as lame cake. Not even fat kids would eat that.

Why take the bus when you can be zaped there in an instant.
To sum up: an obelisk type gun tank, Ye cool. A portal tank, yea ok, makes sense. The parking lot at your local super market? Gtfo...

I'm not seeing your "effective and non effective". There are ZERO effective necron lists at present. The only one thats even playable is the monolith spam list that forces draws (yay...forcing draws...). Those may be different playstyles, but they're all ineffective. You can always make a 100 different playstyles if you play every different combo of junk options.

As far as real "builds" necrons have now? 1 to none.

And if warriors get to be 12 points and scarabs are the anti-armor nuts we're hearing about, the best build will likely be some sort of foot list!

I for one have played 'crons for a loonnnngg time, and would love the option run barges of the undead, slowly hovering closer to the enemy, or to run a foot list, or etc etc.

I disagree with the bolded statement 110%.

Captain Jack wrote:I really don't get the no vehicle movement amongst necron players. I agree that they should not be analagous with other races craft, but I kinda like the idea of a smaller 'lith portal screaming around spitting out squads of necron warriors in areas bad for your opponant. I also like the idea of a lord having his own 'Skeletor' chariot to bimble about in, though the mini will have to be better than the chibli-hawk to convince me.

Won't be too difficult for them to make that better than the Chibi Hawk, may need to re think that phrasing.

Reflex wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Reflex wrote:A single style? That would be what? While there is a mega difference between effective lists and non effective lists, for the purpose of this argument that will be irrelevant. There is: warrior horde, wraithwing, destroyer wing, phalanx and mc list.

I'd say that's more then one playstyle.

Following the FOC requirements:

How many different lists can you build with necrons at 500 points?

Now, how many different lists can you build with EVERY OTHER ARMY at 500 points?

Replace points value with any amount.

Please don't use this argument. 40k is designed around 1500points not 500.

I take it you missed my last sentence? Also, 40k is a game made to played, it's designed to let the players do what they want, and setting a soft cap on points value games is ludicrous. Not to mention all the events that have taken place at my FLGS that have been geared at 200-500 points.

So, just because you couldn't come up with a good counter-point doesn't mean you can just throw out a generic bland response and expect to get a "ya, you're right." response.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Destrado wrote:I think it might fit their "theme". Though they can teleport, why not bring another scary war-machine to the fray? Seeing as they are supposed to be engaged in bigger battles, rather than just raids, it makes sense. Also I doubt that they can teleport everywhere they want. What's stopping them from teleporting directly to Terra, Eldar Craftworlds, etc?

I'm pretty sure that they need the power a tomb world provides to be able to teleport from planet to planet. So, to teleport to those locations you mentioned would require them to BE a tomb world already.
Speculation, of course.

Gethvar wrote:I hope thos rumors all will end up in the warp as some kind of embarrassing joke that isn't even funny.

The changes in rules and stats would be the worst thing that would happen to the necrons since the release of 5th ed of rules, the whole idea seem to be just "Oh, make the warriors more crap, take the immortals to troops, give them warrior statline and screw them all more with ridiculous WBB change" another idea with destroyers being jump infantry=WTF!?
If it turn to be true my whole necron army goes ebay and i will quit the hobby.

Well the Immortals are going to keep the 3+ save, so they wont be too much different. Missiles/rokkits wont matter too much, since you can always take aWBB according to current rules. And how are warriors more suck? You take away the phase out rules, and honestly the only thing bad about them is how poor they do in CC. So if you were to ask me, just taking away phase out makes them better.

Changes to the WBB sound great to me, so you take a res orb and get it back to 4+ (again current rumors) And destroyers being jump troops rumor....well that does seem a bit off, BUT in all honesty, most the time I use destroyers they only move 12 inches anyways, so I can keep on blasting away at the enemy.

I'm not too thrilled with changes to WBB as far as the number goes but not needing to baby sit my forces with an orb makes me happy as I can spread out and not rely on my majority T5 list. Still, transports....ugh.

Surely Destroyers becoming Jump Infantry just makes them lose the ability to Turbo Boost. Would they lose anything else?






Ah - unable to fire Heavy gund on the move as well. Which wont be a probelm IF their gun become "Assault"

Praxiss wrote:Surely Destroyers becoming Jump Infantry just makes them lose the ability to Turbo Boost. Would they lose anything else?






Ah - unable to fire Heavy gund on the move as well. Which wont be a probelm IF their gun become "Assault"

Ya, having to take dangerous terrain tests when you want to hide them in area terrain or in a ruin for better LOS.

Scarey Nerd wrote:
1. Necrons can teleport from planet to planet with ease, it's how they repair when they fail a WBB. They teleport to the nearest convenient tombworld, which if they're on a ship in space isn't exactly accessible.
2. They don't teleport onto Terra because of common sense. No matter how strong their forces, they'd get wiped. It'd be far easier to assail the Solar System with spacecraft, systematically taking down the defences with their superior technology.
3. New vehicles are a good thing, apart from the monetary price. Transports don't fit their fluff, and that's the problem people are having. It might make them stronger in game terms, but if you debase it to just rules and points, what's the point in having the different races and backgrounds?

1 & 2 - Terra was an example - they should be able to go there. But yet they don't (for other reasons, besides your own; downfall of mankind = chaos closing in). Yet on Mars they landed a craft.

So it would seem that they can't teleport everywhere. I didn't play BFGothic, but perhaps certain kinds of fields & technology break the teleportation (Geller fields, etc - I doubt Eldar wouldn't know how to counter it). So teleportation (and translated to gaming terms), Deep-striking isn't always an option. I doubt they'd been able to wage war for untold years if they didn't have their bases covered.

3. People will react negatively to anything that is against their perceived idea of how the army is. People have only heard rumours and already are calling it broken & bad. While I think that rumours are to be discussed... there's a limit. Like the costumary "I'm selling my army". Codexes change, rules and fluff change - I don't like Assault Marines as Troops in Blood Angels or Deep-Striking Land Raiders but that doesn't mean a codex is bad. Assuming it is bad based on some "facts" is like rating a movie or a book based on a synopsis.

Reflex wrote:A single style? That would be what? While there is a mega difference between effective lists and non effective lists, for the purpose of this argument that will be irrelevant. There is: warrior horde, wraithwing, destroyer wing, phalanx and mc list.

I'd say that's more then one playstyle.

What I was trying to say in my post, and what I was unclear about, was that a 35-75 point transport would turn necrons into a mash up of guard and spesh mureheeens. That's super flavorsome and totally what crons are about. A vehicle that is a portal is a different kettle of fish. But either way, necrons have never tasted like then need tons of veichles. They have 2, the monolith and pylon. If you got into crons for and are a tread head, seriously gtfo because necrons don't need transports! A few tanks I get, but full mech crons tastes as awesome as lame cake. Not even fat kids would eat that.

Why take the bus when you can be zaped there in an instant.
To sum up: an obelisk type gun tank, Ye cool. A portal tank, yea ok, makes sense. The parking lot at your local super market? Gtfo...

Effective lists are completely relevant to the argument, because that's the point of the game. Sure, you can play friendly lists for fun, but at the end of the day it's a wargame, and it's about winning (and having fun in the process) for the vast majority of players. In this respect it's the same form of lists and play style over and over. It's Mandatory 2x Warrior Squads, then you add whatever ineffective and overcosted unit of choice to try to do damage and stay alive +Monoliths. Monoliths are a must, because of phase out.

Transports will not turn Necrons into space marines, or Guard. For one, there are more defining aspects to those armies than just transports, including the stat line and USR's for the army, which has already been rumored to change. The fundamental changes in the codex, that have been shown through the rumors, are indicative of a different approach than either of those armies. Just because we will be getting Transports Like, Say every other army other than Tyranids, Does not mean our Army becomes a shade of MEQ or GEQ.

The current rumors seem to indicate a brand new direction in vehicle and in playstyle with OPTIONS. I don't see how having say, an AV11 open topped transport Skimmer with Quantum Shielding that would add +2 to it's armor values on side and front (and perhaps add in the benefits of the current living metal, but that's speculation on my part) Just because it shares the base option of "Transport" Does not make it a Rhino, or a Chimera.

So, to sum it up: Just because an Army gets new options, that does not make it like other armies, because they share the base similarity such as having transports or vehicles. Just because your vision and feel of the army is different from someone else, does not mean we should have less options. You will still have the choice to run the army as you see fit, and I should have the option to run how I see fit as well, regardless if that means I run it with transports, and you run it footslogging.

Kevin949 wrote:

targetawg wrote:

Reflex wrote:A single style? That would be what? While there is a mega difference between effective lists and non effective lists, for the purpose of this argument that will be irrelevant. There is: warrior horde, wraithwing, destroyer wing, phalanx and mc list.

I'd say that's more then one playstyle.

What I was trying to say in my post, and what I was unclear about, was that a 35-75 point transport would turn necrons into a mash up of guard and spesh mureheeens. That's super flavorsome and totally what crons are about. A vehicle that is a portal is a different kettle of fish. But either way, necrons have never tasted like then need tons of veichles. They have 2, the monolith and pylon. If you got into crons for and are a tread head, seriously gtfo because necrons don't need transports! A few tanks I get, but full mech crons tastes as awesome as lame cake. Not even fat kids would eat that.

Why take the bus when you can be zaped there in an instant.
To sum up: an obelisk type gun tank, Ye cool. A portal tank, yea ok, makes sense. The parking lot at your local super market? Gtfo...

I'm not seeing your "effective and non effective". There are ZERO effective necron lists at present. The only one thats even playable is the monolith spam list that forces draws (yay...forcing draws...). Those may be different playstyles, but they're all ineffective. You can always make a 100 different playstyles if you play every different combo of junk options.

As far as real "builds" necrons have now? 1 to none.

And if warriors get to be 12 points and scarabs are the anti-armor nuts we're hearing about, the best build will likely be some sort of foot list!

I for one have played 'crons for a loonnnngg time, and would love the option run barges of the undead, slowly hovering closer to the enemy, or to run a foot list, or etc etc.

I disagree with the bolded statement 110%.

Disagree however much you want, even a non-real amount, doesn't change the truth.

Necrons may be fun in a "play with your friends", but in any sort of even moderately competitive environment, they're absolute junk.

How about some reasoning with why you "disagree". Find me a single top 10 finish of necrons from 2010 or 2011 at the GT level, barring events where the success was purely based on a comp score (and I can't think of any of these, but I know that some events it can make an army that lost most games it played still win).

And mind you, most gt's are 50~ players, so thats only top 20%.

Heck, I'm pretty positive you couldn't find me a single top 20 finish either.

I just hope these transports are portal-based, to put emphasis on the Necron's superior technology. I don't want Rhinos/Razorbacks, sick of the sight of those metal boxes.

I wouldn't mind a drop-pod equivelent that raises out the ground. An obelist with a Flux Arc and a portal, that you can use as an immobile monolith portal. Have multiple of these shoot out around the board first turn and zip your guys all over the place as you please.

One unit per portal, letting you reroll WBB. I'm just not a fan of the idea of Necron APCs, I just hope they make these transports unique and obviously Necron.

I'm guessing they will be some sort of funky shape that doesn't fit in a frikkin army case like the 'lith. :(