Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Kanluwen wrote:Which is why it's not in.

I don't see why it couldn't be. I mean, if the Valk and Trygon can make the transition (not to mention a stack'a Guard tanks), then if the Tomb Stalker is popular enough (and I think it is, given something else I know yet cannot talk about) I can see it being brought across to regular 40K via a plastic kit.

I think it'd be great, as the Tomb Stalker is a really nice model that is let down the eight bazillion resin legs you have to stick to it.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

kenzosan wrote:How many units with 2+ or 3+ have multiple wounds that aren't ic? Personally can't think of any at the moment.

Scarabs will be a good screen against;

ThunderWolf Cav
Bloodcrushers
Nobz (Bikers and foot)

Dunno what a bloodcrusher is, but how does a nob have a 3+? 'Eavy armor maybe, but that's gettin expensive for orks.

kenzosan wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

kenzosan wrote:How many units with 2+ or 3+ have multiple wounds that aren't ic? Personally can't think of any at the moment.

Scarabs will be a good screen against;

ThunderWolf Cav
Bloodcrushers
Nobz (Bikers and foot)

Dunno what a bloodcrusher is, but how does a nob have a 3+? 'Eavy armor maybe, but that's gettin expensive for orks.

It was just a list of popular multi-wound creatures that Scarabs will be good against.

I see. I dunno bout scarabs vs nobz. Nobz would run through them imo, I'd rather ahoot an ork. Something tells me that ic mc and tanks will be the biggest target for scarabs.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Which is why it's not in.

I don't see why it couldn't be. I mean, if the Valk and Trygon can make the transition (not to mention a stack'a Guard tanks), then if the Tomb Stalker is popular enough (and I think it is, given something else I know yet cannot talk about) I can see it being brought across to regular 40K via a plastic kit.

I think it'd be great, as the Tomb Stalker is a really nice model that is let down the eight bazillion resin legs you have to stick to it.

Aren't the parts for the Hydra still resin, and only made by Forgeworld Right now?

And HMBC, does this popularity have something to do with the upcoming Necron release? Don't keep us in the dark like GW

Scarabs are built for shooting, not hand to hand (against anything). You place them in front of your Warriors, so they'll be forced to assault them before your Warriors. Your scarabs wound them, drop their armor---die. They can't consolidate, you rapid fire them on your phase and they have no armor save.

kenzosan wrote:I see. I dunno bout scarabs vs nobz. Nobz would run through them imo, I'd rather ahoot an ork. Something tells me that ic mc and tanks will be the biggest target for scarabs.

But that's what I mean, the orks nobz run through em. you don't counter and take out armor. Scarabs just die.

I find it extremely unlikely that the scarab rule will stay. It, like much else here, goes back to 2nd and earlier for rules. And tracking scarabs was a pain in the ass then too.

Hmmm... not sure if I'm so hot on the whole "Ctan aspect" thing, it sounds way too similar to Eldar.
As for the Paraiahs, I suppose it's a good thing they're gone, despite having some pretty good fluff written about them.
Transports: really? Must our beloved metal soldiers go through this vehicle craze as well?
Well, overall, I'm still a tad bit skeptical to this new update, but until they are released, I probably will withhold my judgment.

Vehicle crazy? Everyone but nids has a vehicle

kenzosan wrote:Dunno what a bloodcrusher is, but how does a nob have a 3+? 'Eavy armor maybe, but that's gettin expensive for orks.

This is a Bloodcrusher....



It's a Khorne Juggernaut with a Bloodletter rider.

Kurgash wrote:Monstrous creatures, Dreadknights *oh how I will laugh at that happening! just picture the harness getting stripped away and the dude falling out with a thud* and all sorts of other multi wound units, Tyranids especiallly!

Oh wow...yet another codex where something really mulches over the nids.

I can just see the shock on the terminators faces that crush my necrons as their armour is no more

The Metal Tide wrote:

Kurgash wrote:Monstrous creatures, Dreadknights *oh how I will laugh at that happening! just picture the harness getting stripped away and the dude falling out with a thud* and all sorts of other multi wound units, Tyranids especiallly!

Oh wow...yet another codex where something really mulches over the nids.

I can just see the shock on the terminators faces that crush my necrons as their armour is no more

that wont happen though. unless they are palladins, termi's have 1 wound. thats the issue alot of use are having with scarabs.

I don't think we will see the end of Pariahs at all. The most silly thing I've heard for a long time. You just don't make a pariah the central part of the Necrons story in the Dawn of War video game story line and get rid of them in the next codex.

The Metal Tide wrote:

Kurgash wrote:Monstrous creatures, Dreadknights *oh how I will laugh at that happening! just picture the harness getting stripped away and the dude falling out with a thud* and all sorts of other multi wound units, Tyranids especiallly!

Oh wow...yet another codex where something really mulches over the nids.

I can just see the shock on the terminators faces that crush my necrons as their armour is no more

This will bring in a whole new load of kinky when Necrons are against SoBs.

dancingcricket wrote:
If it becomes required to buy more models to play the game, particularly different ones that are outside the theme or concept you like, at least if you'd like to play competitively, then yes, it is a bad thing. If I'm going from running Skynet to running the skeletons from Army of Darkness, there's a big change, it might not be something I like, and that's bad for the game if it drives players away. It would have been better to take the concept of an army of undead, and start a new codex.

I think that's the thing that bothers me most about these rumors. I've played necrons since second edition and I like the feel of a small implacable force. While people called them a MEQ army WBB made them far harder than that and if these rumors are true the math indicates that they will essentially be a MEQ equivalent army (it will just require two rolls to have a 3+ save instead of one). Necron Warriors used to be the most durable basic troop, now they'll be easier to kill than Plague Marines and Thousand Sons and as easy to kill as any basic marine.

Personally I don't care if they a dozen units that I think are completely out of character. I can choose not to use a new unit and if they wanted to add a new less resistant basic troop I would have been fine with that. To completely change the character of the army is another thing. It would be the equivalent of marines only having a 4+ save in the next codex. It wouldn't matter if they only cost 10 pts. people would be pissed. It seems to me that the way the opinions are breaking down are largely upon these lines; if you're a current Necron player you're less than enthused about the rumored changes, if you don't play Necrons you're intrigued by the new flavor of the day.

I predict that the new tournament move, which will require a name similar to "leafblower", will be to either protect a small bubble of scarabs, and charge terminators and other such high armor saving units with them, then when they fall back the target can be destroyed, or just sending suicide swarms that the enemy cannot completely take down.

Perhaps the Scarab Swamp?

The Twisted wrote:I don't think we will see the end of Pariahs at all. The most silly thing I've heard for a long time. You just don't make a pariah the central part of the Necrons story in the Dawn of War video game story line and get rid of them in the next codex.

Dark Crusade is a five year old game, thinking it has any relevance is pretty silly.

Unix wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:
If it becomes required to buy more models to play the game, particularly different ones that are outside the theme or concept you like, at least if you'd like to play competitively, then yes, it is a bad thing. If I'm going from running Skynet to running the skeletons from Army of Darkness, there's a big change, it might not be something I like, and that's bad for the game if it drives players away. It would have been better to take the concept of an army of undead, and start a new codex.

I think that's the thing that bothers me most about these rumors. I've played necrons since second edition and I like the feel of a small implacable force. While people called them a MEQ army WBB made them far harder than that and if these rumors are true the math indicates that they will essentially be a MEQ equivalent army (it will just require two rolls to have a 3+ save instead of one). Necron Warriors used to be the most durable basic troop, now they'll be easier to kill than Plague Marines and Thousand Sons and as easy to kill as any basic marine.

Personally I don't care if they a dozen units that I think are completely out of character. I can choose not to use a new unit and if they wanted to add a new less resistant basic troop I would have been fine with that. To completely change the character of the army is another thing. It would be the equivalent of marines only having a 4+ save in the next codex. It wouldn't matter if they only cost 10 pts. people would be pissed. It seems to me that the way the opinions are breaking down are largely upon these lines; if you're a current Necron player you're less than enthused about the rumored changes, if you don't play Necrons you're intrigued by the new flavor of the day.

You'd be mistaken then: I'm a current necron player, and I love the way the rumors are sounding. They're a terrible MEQ-ish army at the moment with very little flavor of their own and even less variety. When I looked at Necrons, the fluff always screamed to me not "can't be killed" but "unending". Sure, you can shoot down a necron, but he might just get right back up, and if not, it's a huge shambling horde, it's still going to get there. This fits that.

Remember: No one's seen the book yet. Heck, it isn't even finished being written and changed. There will likely be some way to still take a super expensive 30 model resilient army of doom.

Warriors are still a resilient basic troop btw, at 12 points with a 5+ save after they die, they're pretty darn tough. They die 1/6th of the time more than present, and get back up 1/3rd of the time they die, regardless of the source of the casualty. And if these don't tickle your fancy, immortals will still net you a small, terminator esque army.

micahaphone wrote:I predict that the new tournament move, which will require a name similar to "leafblower", will be to either protect a small bubble of scarabs, and charge terminators and other such high armor saving units with them, then when they fall back the target can be destroyed, or just sending suicide swarms that the enemy cannot completely take down.

Perhaps the Scarab Swamp?

I prefer to call it the Scuttle Bug Stunt.

A much better name.

I have 39 Scarab bases and 9 Tomb Spyders. I predict their stock going up up up!

This i can agree on if rumors are true

I have 6 and 30. I may have to get a few more

Come on. Scarabs are Beetles, right? So when you charge them, you have to scream, "Teal* Buggy Punch!" and lean over the table, punching your opponent in the arm like a man.**

*Insert the predominant color of your scarab swarm.

**If being manly actually applies to you. Giggling and doing a little dance after love tapping your opponent does not apply.

-Greed

targetawg wrote:

Unix wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:
If it becomes required to buy more models to play the game, particularly different ones that are outside the theme or concept you like, at least if you'd like to play competitively, then yes, it is a bad thing. If I'm going from running Skynet to running the skeletons from Army of Darkness, there's a big change, it might not be something I like, and that's bad for the game if it drives players away. It would have been better to take the concept of an army of undead, and start a new codex.

I think that's the thing that bothers me most about these rumors. I've played necrons since second edition and I like the feel of a small implacable force. While people called them a MEQ army WBB made them far harder than that and if these rumors are true the math indicates that they will essentially be a MEQ equivalent army (it will just require two rolls to have a 3+ save instead of one). Necron Warriors used to be the most durable basic troop, now they'll be easier to kill than Plague Marines and Thousand Sons and as easy to kill as any basic marine.

Personally I don't care if they a dozen units that I think are completely out of character. I can choose not to use a new unit and if they wanted to add a new less resistant basic troop I would have been fine with that. To completely change the character of the army is another thing. It would be the equivalent of marines only having a 4+ save in the next codex. It wouldn't matter if they only cost 10 pts. people would be pissed. It seems to me that the way the opinions are breaking down are largely upon these lines; if you're a current Necron player you're less than enthused about the rumored changes, if you don't play Necrons you're intrigued by the new flavor of the day.

You'd be mistaken then: I'm a current necron player, and I love the way the rumors are sounding. They're a terrible MEQ-ish army at the moment with very little flavor of their own and even less variety. When I looked at Necrons, the fluff always screamed to me not "can't be killed" but "unending". Sure, you can shoot down a necron, but he might just get right back up, and if not, it's a huge shambling horde, it's still going to get there. This fits that.

Just because you're a Necron player that doesn't fit my model doesn't make me wrong (or right for that matter). That's why I framed it with "opinions are breaking down LARGELY upon these lines." Considering that this thread has 10 pages of Matt Ward sucks posts from current Necron players I would argue that a good percentage of people are not happy about the rumors. As for the fluff they were always presented as a small raiding or now just waking army. Only in the recent Black Library books when the Necrons were facing off against space marines have they appeared vulnerable, but frankly in the black library books space marines have defeated titans one on one so I've never really tried to equate the books to game terms.

targetawg wrote:
Remember: No one's seen the book yet. Heck, it isn't even finished being written and changed. There will likely be some way to still take a super expensive 30 model resilient army of doom.

Warriors are still a resilient basic troop btw, at 12 points with a 5+ save after they die, they're pretty darn tough. They die 1/6th of the time more than present, and get back up 1/3rd of the time they die, regardless of the source of the casualty. And if these don't tickle your fancy, immortals will still net you a small, terminator esque army.

You're right that few people have seen the book so far. I'm not really one to get all up in arms about these types of things, hence my post count of 12. However, since this is a rumor thread and I have nothing else going on right now, based upon these rumors and the math that has been posted before Necrons have the same rate of survival as marines against the majority of ranged and close combat wounds. They are resilient, as resilient as basic marines. Now they are a true MEQ army, which for me sucks. I guess you're right that I could pony up a few hundred dollars for boxes of immortals just to maintain my present style of play, but I'll probably just wait a few years hoping that GWs pendulum swings back as it often does (especially if they have new boxes to sell). I imagine 2015 or 2016 will see the return of the "hard" Necron Warrior, with a new box set and new weapons options that only come one per box.

guys, you have to remember that unless its multi wound the scarabs are pretty useless against termis. all we know is they have the remove armor save/lower armor rating. even rending is w/e. just dont get your hopes up on seeing scarbs destory termis or even weaken em more so then a squad of warriors.

kenzosan wrote:How many units with 2+ or 3+ have multiple wounds that aren't ic? Personally can't think of any at the moment.

Dont the GK Paladins have 2 wounds each?

Also Obliterators.

IG Heavy Weapon teams

Attack bikes

MC's (or are they essentially the same as ICs?)

Might be something in the 'nid army i suppose but i have no idea.

There are a few 2+ wound SM i'd love to try it out on

Meganobs
Talos/Cronos
Tervigons
Trygons
Mawlocs
Hive Guard?
Other Necrons...

None of these are ICs

sorry kinda meant mc/ic,

i just think using it for anti infanty is pointless. mc/ic is the best use of the scarabs imho

The Scarabs ability is really for AV methinks. The Anti-Armour ability will rarely be relevant.

Its kinda like the old Gauss ability. Its auto-wound on a 6 was largely irrelevant.