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My god how broken is the point costing on Fantasy these days? Please excuse my surprise but I don't play the current game.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19900006a

I looked at the pictures and thought, there's a reasonable amount of stuff for 2000 points.

Then the numbers sunk in. The hell?? In one picture for 2000 points you need a corpse cart and some large bat thing, a pair of fell bats (just as well given their new price) and then you need two boxes of bat swarms, three boxes of ogre things, three boxes of ghouls, three boxes of zombies and 2 boxes of the enormous thing in the middle.

There's another picture but it's two of these, three of those and four of that, and the characters and some massive stuff.

Jeezus. Have people really got tables big enough and pockets deep enough for Fantasy armies? Mostly nice figures but the game has changed a bit since I last played that's for sure.

A valid point and a big reason why we can't get younger people to join WFB. Hard to justify 45$ for 10 elite troops when elite means they cost 12 points. In 40k you get 5 40mm models for 50$ which is a very high price (terminators) yet in fantasy you get usually 3 models

Play smaller games, that's my approach. All the big stuff is daft anyway.

With the rumors of no ard boyz this year you wont see as many bigger armies.

I'll echo the smaller games

With 8th edition point system, smaller battles arent all that bad since you can take lords n stuff. Makes the games a little tenser since every man counts

I wish Skirmish/Warbands would get updated

Howard A Treesong wrote:Then the numbers sunk in. The hell?? In one picture for 2000 points you need a corpse cart and some large bat thing, a pair of fell bats (just as well given their new price) and then you need two boxes of bat swarms, three boxes of ogre things, three boxes of ghouls, three boxes of zombies and 2 boxes of the enormous thing in the middle.

You should really look at my Skaven Army if you want to see lots and lots of models. I might, but pretty much doubt, be able to make 2400 points.

Breotan wrote:]You should really look at my Skaven Army if you want to see lots and lots of models. I might, but pretty much doubt, be able to make 2400 points.

Now that is a Skaven army. Crack on with the painting though, eh?

I don't see how small games + lords = every man counts.. You mean every lord counts

After playing WFB for an extremely long time competitively and casually.. the inclusion of lords in small games makes the game by far less fun.

Just like super characters in 40k are very hard to counter in small games.. Level 4 casters in low point games just makes almost all your troops pointless

Kirasu wrote:I don't see how small games + lords = every man counts.. You mean every lord counts

After playing WFB for an extremely long time competitively and casually.. the inclusion of lords in small games makes the game by far less fun.

Just like super characters in 40k are very hard to counter in small games.. Level 4 casters in low point games just makes almost all your troops pointless

Well, yes I tend to steer clear of Lords for 1000pt games, but the point is, given that Fantasy 8th is exhibiting the most blatant scaling up of £££ per points since 40K 3rd Edition (when a Tactical Marine went from 30 points to 15 points), it makes sense to scale back the size of the games. As I said, you may have to leave out the ridiculous stuff, but whilst big arse spiders and the like are fun ideas, they don't really add much to the game IMHO.

I was looking at the painting tutorial for the coven throne/mortis engine, and the actual "throne" part looks really good on its own without the over-the-top excess of the spirit host; I look forward to seeing if any skilled conversion-artists will make a more modest version of it.

Feel sorry for anyone that wants blood knights

As much as I like the models I just wont pay that much out of principle, it's almost the same price as the IoB starter box.

Guess its a good thing I bought my Blood KNights a while back.

Putting it bluntly, I don't think I'll ever have a reason to actually field Blood Knights--and the cost is simply why.

They've always been priced dumb. They won't cease being priced dumb any time soon, most likely because they aren't selling well. It's a catch 22.

Howard A Treesong wrote:My god how broken is the point costing on Fantasy these days? Please excuse my surprise but I don't play the current game.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19900006a

I looked at the pictures and thought, there's a reasonable amount of stuff for 2000 points.

Then the numbers sunk in. The hell?? In one picture for 2000 points you need a corpse cart and some large bat thing, a pair of fell bats (just as well given their new price) and then you need two boxes of bat swarms, three boxes of ogre things, three boxes of ghouls, three boxes of zombies and 2 boxes of the enormous thing in the middle.

There's another picture but it's two of these, three of those and four of that, and the characters and some massive stuff.

Jeezus. Have people really got tables big enough and pockets deep enough for Fantasy armies? Mostly nice figures but the game has changed a bit since I last played that's for sure.

I just did some quick clicking at the GW website and came up with these numbers:

To build the 1000 point army would cost 307$ US. Each model would cost approx. 3.75$

To build the first 2000 point army would cost 535$ US. Each model would cost approx. 4.90$

I can't fund that kind of army.....I might hit up my 10 year old for a loan.

I just looked at the Blood Knight price on GW US website and my jaw dropped! How could anyone pay 99$ for a five unit box? Now I need a loan from both my kids....

Just do what I am doing. Mantic for the rank and file infantry, Gamezone miniatures for the Blood Knights (their mounted Vampires are awesome), Harpies as Vargheists and Corpse Cart, Lord of the Rings miniatures using army of the dead as spirit hosts, Morghul knights as Black Knights, Ringwraiths as Hexwraiths, and foot Ringwraiths as Cairn Wraith heroes. Masquerade miniatures supplies their awesome bats and fell bats, Reaper ghasts will fill in as Crypt Horrors, and I will most likely scratch build the Throne or Engine. Throw in some alternative manufacturers like Avatars of War and Enigma for heroes/lords and you're pretty much set.

The only thing from GW I will be using is the book, spell cards, the Terrorgheist and the Wight King. Everything else is easier to source and looks so much better from a lot of the other sources as well. If you don't have to buy GW (because that's the only place you can play etc), then don't do it. Undead isn't an uncommon line, plenty of other suppliers out there.

For UK based Dakkanauts absolutely determined to own Blood Knights, I think Dark Sphere offer the best price (£46.00 excl. shipping).

Should probably note that the bloodline vampire models have been taken off the website (checked US and UK too) and according to the OZ warehouse are unavailable for order at all.

Flashman wrote:For UK based Dakkanauts absolutely determined to own Blood Knights, I think Dark Sphere offer the best price (£46.00 excl. shipping).

Or failing that...

Buy 2 boxes of Chaos Knights, bits order from the web some DE heads, file and fill Chaos iconography and clip off excessive horns.

You now have 16 Blood Knights.

For easily £10-£15 less than the cost of GW's 5.

Why are people still getting upset over Blood Knight prices? They've been that expensive since they released. Sure, finecast made them a few dollars more expensive, but they've been in the ludicrous price band for years.

DarkStarSabre wrote:

Flashman wrote:For UK based Dakkanauts absolutely determined to own Blood Knights, I think Dark Sphere offer the best price (£46.00 excl. shipping).

Or failing that...

Buy 2 boxes of Chaos Knights, bits order from the web some DE heads, file and fill Chaos iconography and clip off excessive horns.

You now have 16 Blood Knights.

For easily £10-£15 less than the cost of GW's 5.

Dont Chaos knights come in boxs of 5?

Tomb King wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:

Flashman wrote:For UK based Dakkanauts absolutely determined to own Blood Knights, I think Dark Sphere offer the best price (£46.00 excl. shipping).

Or failing that...

Buy 2 boxes of Chaos Knights, bits order from the web some DE heads, file and fill Chaos iconography and clip off excessive horns.

You now have 16 Blood Knights.

For easily £10-£15 less than the cost of GW's 5.

Dont Chaos knights come in boxs of 5?

Yes. But you can still buy three boxes of them with $10 to spend on bits and enough left over for coffee.

Just so were all clear, the pic I posted from white dwarf will have been a mis print, the blood knight / hex wraith kit is £18.50 on the UK site which I reckons pretty damn good tbh

Are those huge plastic Ghouls the Flesh Golem unit we heard rumors about or is there another unit in the book which they don't have models for yet?

The big ghouls are varghulfs, ghouls that have fed on rank stuff for so many years that they've just grown beyond compare to their smaller 'brethren'.

No idea about the flesh golems, I havent seen the army book, but that's what I can tell you about them

Anung Un Rama wrote:Are those huge plastic Ghouls the Flesh Golem unit we heard rumors about or is there another unit in the book which they don't have models for yet?

The big ghoul looking guys are Crypt Horrors. The big ones with wings are vargheists, smaller brothers to the larger Varghulfs. I too wanted flesh golems, but honestly that doesn't stick with the fluff about Vampires. It's more Thaumaturgy than Necromancy. Unfortunately, not a fan of either sculpt so I will be passing on those miniatures.

When talking about the price of warhammer going up, one should consider this; if a player wants, he can comfortably summon over 60 new zombies per turn. I mean if that is hes goal, he can do it easy, thats just 3 passed invocations from lvl1 guys reaching 3 units. Zombies, old models, cost 30€ for 20...

That made me break a cold sweat.

Or buy the Manticore zombies which look better and are 30 for $30.

Ozymandias wrote:Or buy the Manticore zombies which look better and are 30 for $30.

Could you link to that company? Some swift googling yielded nothing, and I'm quite curious to this.

www.manticgames.com

Really really cheap undead at a good price, and most of it looks tons better than GW. Added bonus, it's to scale too.