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v0iddrgn wrote:
So, how does Morale affect vehicles now???

You take a Morale test when you lose a model. If your Rhino dies, you take a Morale test... but it's the only model in the unit so it doesn't matter.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
So with the info released about movement, and with all the info about how much shooting has been buffed, any unit in the game can now disengage while the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit to diced confetti.

RIP CC armies.

Disengaging keeps e unit that backed up from shooting unless they have a special rule that let's them (like Fly or Walking Battleship).

Until we have actual, 100% confirmation that "Fly" lets them do this--please make it clear that it's potentially the case.

v0iddrgn wrote:
So, how does Morale affect vehicles now???

Same way it affects everything else: single models are immune to Battle Shock and squadrons test as normal.

 oni wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Youn wrote:
So, if you surround a vehicle with troops inside. It won't be able to FALL BACK, because it cannot tank shock an opponent now. And won't have space to move away. Any troops that are inside will be instantly destroyed because they won't be able to deploy more then 1" away from an opponent and within 3" of the vehicle.

This is going to make 90 plague zombies deadly to something like a rhino with troops in it.

Very fluffy actually. Trapped inside your APC, unable to jump out into the horde of zombies as far as the eye can see, firing desperately your bolt pistol out the window as you wait for them to tear it apart and eat your brain.

This isn't too different than how it works now, but at least in 7th edition you can Tank Shock your way out. In 8th it seems as though the transport will just have to sit there in the zombie tar pit - not fluffy and not good in my opinion. This may have been a terrible oversight.

Ever tried to drive with 30+ corpses wrapped around your axel?

No, me either

 Zewrath wrote:
So with the info released about movement, and with all the info about how much shooting has been buffed, any unit in the game can now disengage while the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit to diced confetti.

RIP CC armies.

Except, you know, for that rule that wyches have that stops falling back from happening.
A rule that may quite possibly show up on other units, or variations of that rule

I'm quite surprised with how they translated the Annihilation Barge. It seems like they really missed the obvious opportunity to just give it Quantum-level stats (T8 2+ or 3+) but subject the vehicle to degradation effects (as seen in the Morkonaut profile).

...Which they clearly didn't do, because the released statline doesn't have stars for T or Save values.

So instead of using a perfectly usable mechanics that is a reasonable implementation of the fluff, they've (probably) decided to use a Bespoke rule. Kinda disappointing.

I suppose they're trying to avoid degradation tables for all but the biggest models, which makes a fair amount of sense for speed-of-play purposes (keeping track of changed stats for every Rhino would have been a pain), but this seems like it could have been a reasonable exception, especially if there were basically only two potential values - Quantum-Shield-working and -notworking.

Also, Power 7... so more expensive than a 5 man Intercessor NuMarine squad, but less expensive than 4 Rubric Marines and an Aspiring Sorceror.

Interesting.



LOL on Kanluwen holding the line on the Fly ability. You do you, buddy.

You take a Morale test when you lose a model. If your Rhino dies, you take a Morale test... but it's the only model in the unit so it doesn't matter.

Conceivably if you had a squadron of 3 Warbuggies with leadership 6 you could take one casualty and then lose another buggy to a morale test I think.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
So with the info released about movement, and with all the info about how much shooting has been buffed, any unit in the game can now disengage while the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit to diced confetti.

RIP CC armies.

Disengaging keeps e unit that backed up from shooting unless they have a special rule that let's them (like Fly or Walking Battleship).

Until we have actual, 100% confirmation that "Fly" lets them do this--please make it clear that it's potentially the case.

I mentioned fly as an example of a rulemthat does, but it,s only listed as a rulemon the Crisis Suits and not even a USR.

Plus Crisis Suits will likely see a points bump in the new edition I'm betting.

How about we wait until the full rules are released and we get ga,es in before we cry that something in the game is dead?

Requizen wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
So, how does Morale affect vehicles now???

You take a Morale test when you lose a model. If your Rhino dies, you take a Morale test... but it's the only model in the unit so it doesn't matter.

until they release psychic powers / other special rules that use LD as something to compare against

v0iddrgn wrote:
So, how does Morale affect vehicles now???

It does not affect units of a single model, for obvious reasons. This usually means vehicles.
Even if the vehicle is in a squadron, it still probably won't matter, because vehicles, by the looks of it, tend to have LD10. You'd have to take about 5 losses before morale checks start to matter.
Most vehicle squadrons consist of about 3 models.

Jambles wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
The Vehicles being able to charge are really a HUGE boost to assault armies.
Charge first with vehicle and then with infantry, if the vehicle makes it, then the infantry doesn't have to suffer the overwatch. Between this and the assault from deepstrike i'm afraid that this edition will be really assault centered.

A few days ago people were saying it was going to be shoot centric again. Between this and that, I'd say it looks pretty balanced.

I just hope Nids get the fearsome factor back if transports will be this powerful.

Don't fret, I'm sure in a couple of days we'll be right back to complaining about shooting again! The circle of life...

Zewrath wrote:So with the info released about movement, and with all the info about how much shooting has been buffed, any unit in the game can now disengage while the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit to diced confetti.

RIP CC armies.

I like the vehicle rules so far. I guess the Goliath Rockgrinder will see some action in close combat.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
So with the info released about movement, and with all the info about how much shooting has been buffed, any unit in the game can now disengage while the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit to diced confetti.

RIP CC armies.

Disengaging keeps e unit that backed up from shooting unless they have a special rule that let's them (like Fly or Walking Battleship).

Until we have actual, 100% confirmation that "Fly" lets them do this--please make it clear that it's potentially the case.

I mentioned fly as an example of a rule that does, but it's only listed as a rule on the Crisis Suits and not even a USR.

Except we know that it is a USR, effectively. Frankie talked about them being able to do this for having the "keyword Fly".

Know what else we saw in the same Tau article?


Funny how no mention of Sniper Drones doing the same thing...

I mean, if it were such a big deal that "Fly" lets them do this? I wouldn't have mentioned "Crisis Suits". I would have just said "Battlesuits and Drones". Because Ghostkeels, Stealth Suits, and Drones all likely have "Fly".

Plus Crisis Suits will likely see a points bump in the new edition I'm betting.

How about we wait until the full rules are released and we get games in before we cry that something in the game is dead?

I think you're talking to the wrong person on this one.

I've been, fairly consistently, arguing that there is a lot we're not seeing.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
I'm quite surprised with how they translated the Annihilation Barge. It seems like they really missed the obvious opportunity to just give it Quantum-level stats (T8 2+ or 3+) but subject the vehicle to degradation effects (as seen in the Morkonaut profile).

...Which they clearly didn't do, because the released statline doesn't have stars for T or Save values.

So instead of using a perfectly usable mechanics that is a reasonable implementation of the fluff, they've (probably) decided to use a Bespoke rule. Kinda disappointing.

:

I think it would be better to have the base stats on the statline. You can see the stats change if there is a degradation box.

I missed that it was a keyword usr.

That said, I bet that just like Wyches we'll see other units that negate the ability to run away (Bersekers peraps, maybe swarms).

Any claim that any part of the game is dead is pure hyperbole at this point and just groan worthy to deal with.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
So with the info released about movement, and with all the info about how much shooting has been buffed, any unit in the game can now disengage while the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit to diced confetti.

RIP CC armies.

Diengaging keeps e unit that backed up from shooting unless they have a special rule that let's them (like Fly or Walking Battleship).

If you read my post, I stated 'the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit'.

I couldn't care less about my guardsmen not getting to shoot the unit they disengaged from, when the rest of the army is fully capable of doing so, unless the rules says the CC unit you disengaged from is immune. I'm quite surprised at why this isn't fully obvious to people.

zerosignal wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
I'm quite surprised with how they translated the Annihilation Barge. It seems like they really missed the obvious opportunity to just give it Quantum-level stats (T8 2+ or 3+) but subject the vehicle to degradation effects (as seen in the Morkonaut profile).

...Which they clearly didn't do, because the released statline doesn't have stars for T or Save values.

So instead of using a perfectly usable mechanics that is a reasonable implementation of the fluff, they've (probably) decided to use a Bespoke rule. Kinda disappointing.

:

I think it would be better to have the base stats on the statline. You can see the stats change if there is a degradation box.

It might have been better that way, but that isn't the way GW decided to do things (as we've seen explicitly on the Morkonaut, and will probably see in the Imperial Knights when that article goes live tomorrow).

v0iddrgn wrote:
So, how does Morale affect vehicles now???

Single models don't make Morale Tests. Who knows what will happen with a vehicle squadron though.

I really hope the Siege Shield on Vindicators gives a big bonus when charging. Same with the spiked fork thing that comes with the Razorback kit.

 Zewrath wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
So with the info released about movement, and with all the info about how much shooting has been buffed, any unit in the game can now disengage while the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit to diced confetti.

RIP CC armies.

Diengaging keeps e unit that backed up from shooting unless they have a special rule that let's them (like Fly or Walking Battleship).

If you read my post, I stated 'the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit'.

I couldn't care less about my guardsmen not getting to shoot the unit they disengaged from, when the rest of the army is fully capable of doing so, unless the rules says the CC unit you disengaged from is immune. I'm quite surprised at why this isn't fully obvious to people.

It's been mentioned before, but I would expect there to be some CC units which can disengage and move away after making their attacks.

Also, not sure how this situation is different to now where if a CC unit wipes out a unit they're locked in combat with they're vulnerable.

Yonasu wrote:
So who wants to bet that supersonic fliers will be walking around on the ground now hitting people and being stuck in combat....

So.. kinda like 5th edition then back when 'flyers' were just skimmers.

From Facebook...

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Plenty of breadcrumbs.....

Oh, ok, tomorrow's article is on Close Combat Weapons...

 Kroem wrote:

You take a Morale test when you lose a model. If your Rhino dies, you take a Morale test... but it's the only model in the unit so it doesn't matter.

Conceivably if you had a squadron of 3 Warbuggies with leadership 6 you could take one casualty and then lose another buggy to a morale test I think.

"Dey got Porkins!"
"Fergets him Gutsy he's gone!"
"I's pullin' out!"
"No Gutsy ya pansy! Stay wif me!"

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
So with the info released about movement, and with all the info about how much shooting has been buffed, any unit in the game can now disengage while the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit to diced confetti.

RIP CC armies.

Except, you know, for that rule that wyches have that stops falling back from happening.
A rule that may quite possibly show up on other units, or variations of that rule

Right.. gakky units you don't want in CC anyway cause they are a waste of time, punch like a wet paper bag, no inv save against now unlimited overwatch, now have a chance to MAYBE remain stuck in CC. Yeah, what a buff.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Except we know that it is a USR, effectively. Frankie talked about them being able to do this for having the "keyword Fly".

Yes, in fact, let's look at that exact quote:

Oh, and did I forget to mention they have the Fly keyword? This allows them to Fall Back from combat and still shoot at full effect. Brutal!

This allows them to, as in, "this keyword allows them to do this thing". There is no other way it can be interpreted - it IS fly giving them this ability. They don't specify suits, so why would the article repeat itself when it gets to drones? "Oh by the way these can also fall back too for the exact same reason we said otherwise"? It's pretty unequivocal.

Spoletta wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
So with the info released about movement, and with all the info about how much shooting has been buffed, any unit in the game can now disengage while the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit to diced confetti.

RIP CC armies.

Aaand we have gone full circle, didn't even need one page!

It's almost as if people actually have no idea and are just randomly whinging, isn't it?

 Zewrath wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
So with the info released about movement, and with all the info about how much shooting has been buffed, any unit in the game can now disengage while the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit to diced confetti.

RIP CC armies.

Diengaging keeps e unit that backed up from shooting unless they have a special rule that let's them (like Fly or Walking Battleship).

If you read my post, I stated 'the rest of the army can now shred the enemy CC unit'.

I couldn't care less about my guardsmen not getting to shoot the unit they disengaged from, when the rest of the army is fully capable of doing so, unless the rules says the CC unit you disengaged from is immune. I'm quite surprised at why this isn't fully obvious to people.

If the only target worth shooting at is a single close combat unit, then your opponent has more problems than you shooting at them.

Spoletta wrote:
The Vehicles being able to charge are really a HUGE boost to assault armies.
Charge first with vehicle and then with infantry, if the vehicle makes it, then the infantry doesn't have to suffer the overwatch. Between this and the assault from deepstrike i'm afraid that this edition will be really assault centered.

Funny how we arrived at this again only 3 days after 80% of the relevant posts in here declared that 8th edition is going to be super shooting dominated.

It's almost as people shouldn't judge the overall balance of an edition when they only know a fraction of the rules...or base stuff on how it currently works when an almost 2nd to 3rd edition level rework of the rules is happening

 Ghaz wrote:
From Facebook...

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Plenty of breadcrumbs.....

Oh, ok, tomorrow's article is on Close Combat Weapons...

Awesome! Thanks for the update! I can't wait to see some CC weapons.

The day he was always waiting for...


Yep, this is a big boost for transport-based assault armies. The idea of having the trukks hit the lines first, then the boyz on the following turn? Now that's good stuff.

Eyjio wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Except we know that it is a USR, effectively. Frankie talked about them being able to do this for having the "keyword Fly".

Yes, in fact, let's look at that exact quote:

Oh, and did I forget to mention they have the Fly keyword? This allows them to Fall Back from combat and still shoot at full effect. Brutal!

This allows them to, as in, "this keyword allows them to do this thing". There is no other way it can be interpreted - it IS fly giving them this ability. They don't specify suits, so why would the article repeat itself when it gets to drones? "Oh by the way these can also fall back too for the exact same reason we said otherwise"? It's pretty unequivocal.

You know that ANYONE can fall back right?

Warhammer Community's "Movement" article wrote:Oh, there was one last thing.

If you’re in combat at the start of your turn, you can Fall Back by moving away from the enemy. You’ll lose the ability to advance, shoot or charge that turn, and crucially, enemies will be able to shoot at you! This does, however, open up a vast range of tactical options for armies like the Astra Militarum, who will now be able to effectively deploy in firing lines, with each row falling back from any assaults in good order (if they survived) while the unit behind them fires at the attackers. It goes both ways though – if you have a dedicated assault unit that specializes in killing infantry (like Warp Talons) your opponent will find it much harder to pin them down in combat with heavily armoured units for the entire game.

So your argument is that, for whatever reason, you think the keyword "Fly"(which they've talked about or mentioned multiple times before the T'au article and never mentioned this ability before) allows for a unit exiting a Combat to act normally during their turn...rather than there being a bespoke rule like "Bonding Knife Ritual" that Frankie forgets to mention?

Again: if it's such a huge deal that "Fly" lets you do this, you'd think that kind of thing would have been mentioned elsewhere too. Because "Fly" is NOT a faction exclusive keyword to the T'au or their Crisis Suits.

Also want to point out that if a transport maanges to unload its close combat cargo close to an enemy and is still alive after that, it will still be able to charge a completely different target than the cargo, tie down another unit and force them to waste a turn retreating and doing nothing, likely even on the same turn as the unloading.