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This is designed how do you think the primarchs would re-act to the current state of their chapters upon their return.

Any Primarch can return in this scenario, even Ferrus Manus if you wish. This is purely a what if, and how would they react.

I believe if/when the Lion comes back he would be satisfied that all the successor Chapters have Grand Masters but Azrael of the DA is the Supreme Grand Master. Ultimately all successor chapters still report to the DA which can;t be said for other legions.... er I mean Chapters.

I believe the Lion would be quick to judge the Primaris after hearing they are approved by Bobby and field them on a big mission with himself so he could test their might personally. But Overall aside from the whole Luther thing I wreckon he;d be pretty happy with the DA and their continued hunt for the fallen.

Horus: "Hey Abaddon, what's going... GLAAARK"
Abandon: <stab, stab, stab> "HOW MANY EFFING TIMES DO I HAVE TO KILL YOUR DAMN CLONES!!!"

Skaorn wrote:
Horus: "Hey Abaddon, what's going... GLAAARK"
Abandon: <stab, stab, stab> "HOW MANY EFFING TIMES DO I HAVE TO KILL YOUR DAMN CLONES!!!"

I love it.

Lion would be VERY unhappy, not quite kill everyone unhappy, but mega super pissed at what his chapter has become and done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and I can see something else happening

Lion “azrael, gather the legion”

Guilliman “you cant do that, there is a ban on legions”

“You can gak the gak off bro, you ain’t telling me how to run my legion, go back and sit behind your desk regent... a new warmaster is in town”

Ferrus would be pretty appalled with his Chapter/Legion. He knew that his men were starting to take the whole metal-worship thing too far, and was going to deal with it... after Istvaan.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Ferrus would be pretty appalled with his Chapter/Legion. He knew that his men were starting to take the whole metal-worship thing too far, and was going to deal with it... after Istvaan.

Oh yeah, forgot about that, have you read old earth yet?

 Formosa wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Ferrus would be pretty appalled with his Chapter/Legion. He knew that his men were starting to take the whole metal-worship thing too far, and was going to deal with it... after Istvaan.

Oh yeah, forgot about that, have you read old earth yet?

Spoiler:

as the Iron hands pretty much turn renegade for a bit and betray meduson and other shattered legion forces

Yeah. The Heresy hits them REAL hard.

Leman Russ would have a few choice words to shout at the idiots his legion has become, from losing 90% of the Fenrisian population (thus making them a Dead Legion Walking unless they get some Magical Cawl Juice in them, at which point they won't be Vlka Fenryka anymore) to becoming a legion of literal furrys riding literal Santa Sleighs.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Ferrus would be pretty appalled with his Chapter/Legion. He knew that his men were starting to take the whole metal-worship thing too far, and was going to deal with it... after Istvaan.

Oh yeah, forgot about that, have you read old earth yet?

Spoiler:

as the Iron hands pretty much turn renegade for a bit and betray meduson and other shattered legion forces

Yeah. The Heresy hits them REAL hard.

Its the first time in ANY 40k book I have had to stop reading and just say.... feth you man... feth you.

TBH Dorn would probably be fine with the direction the Imperial Fists have gone, he was there for a lot of the stuff that’s freakout-worthy for other primarchs. Sanguinius would be panicking about the whole Rage/Thirst thing and the crazier successor chapters (Flesh Tearers) and be a bit pissed about dissolving the legions, but wouldn’t blame the BA because none of it’s really their fault. As for Kurze, “I’m disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.”

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
TBH Dorn would probably be fine with the direction the Imperial Fists have gone, he was there for a lot of the stuff that’s freakout-worthy for other primarchs. Sanguinius would be panicking about the whole Rage/Thirst thing and the crazier successor chapters (Flesh Tearers) and be a bit pissed about dissolving the legions, but wouldn’t blame the BA because none of it’s really their fault. As for Kurze, “I’m disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.”

Why would Sanguinius be opposed to the fracturing of the Legions?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
TBH Dorn would probably be fine with the direction the Imperial Fists have gone, he was there for a lot of the stuff that’s freakout-worthy for other primarchs. Sanguinius would be panicking about the whole Rage/Thirst thing and the crazier successor chapters (Flesh Tearers) and be a bit pissed about dissolving the legions, but wouldn’t blame the BA because none of it’s really their fault. As for Kurze, “I’m disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.”

Why would Sanguinius be opposed to the fracturing of the Legions?

I'm glad I wasn't the only one asking this, Sanguinis strikes as one of the most likely to see the necessity of that

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
TBH Dorn would probably be fine with the direction the Imperial Fists have gone, he was there for a lot of the stuff that’s freakout-worthy for other primarchs. Sanguinius would be panicking about the whole Rage/Thirst thing and the crazier successor chapters (Flesh Tearers) and be a bit pissed about dissolving the legions, but wouldn’t blame the BA because none of it’s really their fault. As for Kurze, “I’m disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.”

Why would Sanguinius be opposed to the fracturing of the Legions?

Because it prevented the less genetically/psychologically affected portions of the BA from supporting the more affected ones. If the marines that would otherwise be the Lamenters, who handled the Red Thirst pretty well, could be organized into a system that had them supporting the marines that would otherwise be the successors with the creepy vampire sacrifice rituals and other such poorly developed methods for coping with the geneseed’s flaws then the BA might be able to deal with their problems better overall. Because each successor has its own way of dealing with the curse, then some of them are stuck using terrible methods like cannibalism (they’re called the Flesh Eaters for a reason) because they lack the guidance of Corbulo and Astorath who, if the BA were a unified legion, would be able to help without going half the galaxy away and violating Codex Astartes rules about chapter organization.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
TBH Dorn would probably be fine with the direction the Imperial Fists have gone, he was there for a lot of the stuff that’s freakout-worthy for other primarchs. Sanguinius would be panicking about the whole Rage/Thirst thing and the crazier successor chapters (Flesh Tearers) and be a bit pissed about dissolving the legions, but wouldn’t blame the BA because none of it’s really their fault. As for Kurze, “I’m disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.”

Why would Sanguinius be opposed to the fracturing of the Legions?

I'm glad I wasn't the only one asking this, Sanguinis strikes as one of the most likely to see the necessity of that

Yep, the rest to a greater and lesser degree would likely want their legion back given the current state of the imperium, it’s almost reaching old night levels of broken.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
TBH Dorn would probably be fine with the direction the Imperial Fists have gone, he was there for a lot of the stuff that’s freakout-worthy for other primarchs. Sanguinius would be panicking about the whole Rage/Thirst thing and the crazier successor chapters (Flesh Tearers) and be a bit pissed about dissolving the legions, but wouldn’t blame the BA because none of it’s really their fault. As for Kurze, “I’m disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.”

Why would Sanguinius be opposed to the fracturing of the Legions?

Because it prevented the less genetically/psychologically affected portions of the BA from supporting the more affected ones. If the marines that would otherwise be the Lamenters, who handled the Red Thirst pretty well, could be organized into a system that had them supporting the marines that would otherwise be the successors with the creepy vampire sacrifice rituals and other such poorly developed methods for coping with the geneseed’s flaws then the BA might be able to deal with their problems better overall. Because each successor has its own way of dealing with the curse, then some of them are stuck using terrible methods like cannibalism (they’re called the Flesh Eaters for a reason) because they lack the guidance of Corbulo and Astorath who, if the BA were a unified legion, would be able to help without going half the galaxy away and violating Codex Astartes rules about chapter organization.

Alternatively, the Blood Angels could devolve into a Chapter like the Flesh Eaters/Tearers, if someone like Corbulo or Astorath weren't to be in power.

With a lack of more drastic compartmentalization, potential victims of the Red Thirst/Black Rage could spread, and if a figure like Dante, the head of the Blood Angels, were to fall to the Rage or Thirst, then that's a whole Legion compromised - which is EXACTLY what the Codex was designed to stop.

Vulkan would be happy enough, I'd suggest. The Salamanders basically kept their organisation intact and retained their bro tier humanitarianism in the face of a galaxy full of nastiness on every side. I'm looking at you, Marines Malevolent.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
TBH Dorn would probably be fine with the direction the Imperial Fists have gone, he was there for a lot of the stuff that’s freakout-worthy for other primarchs.

Provided he doesn't notice that (aside from the phalanx itself) pretty much the only relics the chapter has left are recovered ones that he thought he handed out to successor chapters when he broke up the legion.

locarno24 wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
TBH Dorn would probably be fine with the direction the Imperial Fists have gone, he was there for a lot of the stuff that’s freakout-worthy for other primarchs.

Provided he doesn't notice that (aside from the phalanx itself) pretty much the only relics the chapter has left are recovered ones that he thought he handed out to successor chapters when he broke up the legion.

then there's the matter of the first chapter to fall to chaos post-heresy...

locarno24 wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
TBH Dorn would probably be fine with the direction the Imperial Fists have gone, he was there for a lot of the stuff that’s freakout-worthy for other primarchs.

Provided he doesn't notice that (aside from the phalanx itself) pretty much the only relics the chapter has left are recovered ones that he thought he handed out to successor chapters when he broke up the legion.

Yeah - I think he'd be a bit shocked to know that his actual Imperial Fists

The lions return is potentially very interesting. Most people seem to assume he’ll be fine with all the shenanigans his sons have got up to, but this is not guaranteed. His nap time started straight after his fight with Luther so he has no idea what the dark angels and successors have been doing for the last 10,000 years.

He could be epically upset and regard his sons as borderline traitors, if he takes this attitude there is the remote chance of going so far as to kill off the inner circles of all his chapters.

I think GW will have him support his sons actions but I find the other possible response potentially more interesting.

BrianDavion wrote:
then there's the matter of the first chapter to fall to chaos post-heresy...

Which chapter is that?

In my head, at some moment Leman Russ' return would have a moment like this...

Magnus invaded Fenris, any sympathy Russ had for his brother after what he did to Prospero would be gone.
Wolves turned from monsters into do-gooders.
I doubt the TWC would bother him, the sleigh would have to go, although the 7th ed Codex claims all the Space Wolves Chapter Masters used it so Russ might well need to slap himself and Bjorn before Grimnar cops one.
Hopefully he starts forcing the use of the Fenrisian dialect in the chapter organisation, ditch the Wolf Lords and Wolf Guard and welcome the Jarls and Huskjarls.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus invaded Fenris, any sympathy Russ had for his brother after what he did to Prospero would be gone.
Wolves turned from monsters into do-gooders.
I doubt the TWC would bother him, the sleigh would have to go, although the 7th ed Codex claims all the Space Wolves Chapter Masters used it so Russ might well need to slap himself and Bjorn before Grimnar cops one.
Hopefully he starts forcing the use of the Fenrisian dialect in the chapter organisation, ditch the Wolf Lords and Wolf Guard and welcome the Jarls and Huskjarls.

Not necessarily. Before the newer fluff came out I would have absolutely agreed with you. But, the new Leman Russ fluff apparently portrays him as feeling massive amounts of guilt over Prospero, apparently to the point that he has questioned his entire dislike of psykers, and even the emperor's ruling at nikea. There is very definitely a Loki/Thor vibe going on between Magnus and Leman Russ. I'm not sure this new Russ would blame Magnus for raging against him and his legion by invading Fenris. He might even feel like he and his legion deserved it.

w1zard wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus invaded Fenris, any sympathy Russ had for his brother after what he did to Prospero would be gone.
Wolves turned from monsters into do-gooders.
I doubt the TWC would bother him, the sleigh would have to go, although the 7th ed Codex claims all the Space Wolves Chapter Masters used it so Russ might well need to slap himself and Bjorn before Grimnar cops one.
Hopefully he starts forcing the use of the Fenrisian dialect in the chapter organisation, ditch the Wolf Lords and Wolf Guard and welcome the Jarls and Huskjarls.

Not necessarily. Before the newer fluff came out I would have absolutely agreed with you. But, the new Leman Russ fluff apparently portrays him as feeling massive amounts of guilt over Prospero, apparently to the point that he has questioned his entire dislike of psykers, and even the emperor's ruling at nikea. There is very definitely a Loki/Thor vibe going on between Magnus and Leman Russ. I'm not sure this new Russ would blame Magnus for raging against him and his legion by invading Fenris. He might even feel like he and his legion deserved it.

Tell me the Wolves aren't doomed to become Angel from the Buffy series. Even if it takes an eternity, they will make amends.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the Angel series but penitent heroes is moving still further away from Space Vikings.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

w1zard wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus invaded Fenris, any sympathy Russ had for his brother after what he did to Prospero would be gone.
Wolves turned from monsters into do-gooders.
I doubt the TWC would bother him, the sleigh would have to go, although the 7th ed Codex claims all the Space Wolves Chapter Masters used it so Russ might well need to slap himself and Bjorn before Grimnar cops one.
Hopefully he starts forcing the use of the Fenrisian dialect in the chapter organisation, ditch the Wolf Lords and Wolf Guard and welcome the Jarls and Huskjarls.

Not necessarily. Before the newer fluff came out I would have absolutely agreed with you. But, the new Leman Russ fluff apparently portrays him as feeling massive amounts of guilt over Prospero, apparently to the point that he has questioned his entire dislike of psykers, and even the emperor's ruling at nikea. There is very definitely a Loki/Thor vibe going on between Magnus and Leman Russ. I'm not sure this new Russ would blame Magnus for raging against him and his legion by invading Fenris. He might even feel like he and his legion deserved it.

Tell me the Wolves aren't doomed to become Angel from the Buffy series. Even if it takes an eternity, they will make amends.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the Angel series but penitent heroes is moving still further away from Space Vikings.

No danger of that, it’s bascially one sentence that Russ says he regrets what he did and being manipulated by Horus, but it needed to be done, he also gets confronted about using psykers and uses the same BS excuse “power from fenris”

Alpharius returns "I am Alpharius".

Marine. "Welcome Alpharius, I am Alpharius".

Alpharius "No I am the real Alpharius".

Marine "So am I"

so on and so forth....

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
This is designed how do you think the primarchs would re-act to the current state of their chapters upon their return.

Any Primarch can return in this scenario, even Ferrus Manus if you wish. This is purely a what if, and how would they react.

I believe if/when the Lion comes back he would be satisfied that all the successor Chapters have Grand Masters but Azrael of the DA is the Supreme Grand Master. Ultimately all successor chapters still report to the DA which can;t be said for other legions.... er I mean Chapters.

I believe the Lion would be quick to judge the Primaris after hearing they are approved by Bobby and field them on a big mission with himself so he could test their might personally. But Overall aside from the whole Luther thing I wreckon he;d be pretty happy with the DA and their continued hunt for the fallen.

I'd tend to agree, his sons have remained relatively very well united, loyal and effective. But I think he'd definitely impose some reforms. Maybe reform the legion. But I think he'd have reservations about some of the more clandestine actions of the Inner Circle and their hunt for the Fallen, so defeating Luther, possibly in open war (or even getting him back in the fold if his 10,000 years of regret were genuine), would probably be a priority to scrub the collective conscience of the Dark Angels in one fell swoop. but overall sure I think he would be satisfied with his Legions efforts to track down their traitors and the other more public heroisms they have prosecuted.

 Formosa wrote:
No danger of that, it’s bascially one sentence that Russ says he regrets what he did and being manipulated by Horus, but it needed to be done, he also gets confronted about using psykers and uses the same BS excuse “power from fenris”

Ah ok, people were making it seem like the fluff behind Russ being a huge douche was changed somewhat. Glad to see that Russ is still good old Russ for the most part aside from a few moments of mature introspection. I liked the old version of Russ better anyway, he was deliciously flawed.

w1zard wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus invaded Fenris, any sympathy Russ had for his brother after what he did to Prospero would be gone.
Wolves turned from monsters into do-gooders.
I doubt the TWC would bother him, the sleigh would have to go, although the 7th ed Codex claims all the Space Wolves Chapter Masters used it so Russ might well need to slap himself and Bjorn before Grimnar cops one.
Hopefully he starts forcing the use of the Fenrisian dialect in the chapter organisation, ditch the Wolf Lords and Wolf Guard and welcome the Jarls and Huskjarls.

Not necessarily. Before the newer fluff came out I would have absolutely agreed with you. But, the new Leman Russ fluff apparently portrays him as feeling massive amounts of guilt over Prospero, apparently to the point that he has questioned his entire dislike of psykers, and even the emperor's ruling at nikea. There is very definitely a Loki/Thor vibe going on between Magnus and Leman Russ. I'm not sure this new Russ would blame Magnus for raging against him and his legion by invading Fenris. He might even feel like he and his legion deserved it.

That seems dumb. Magnus wanting revenge is justified but he did that in the Battle of the Fang. The whole invade and destroy multiple planets thing seems like just overdoing it. I think it's a very....basic revenge for someone like Magnus as well.