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I just fear it has no place in AT.

Warlords are already large and ponderous. Would an Imperator therefore ever move? Would it dominate any game in which it’s not facing a class equivalent?

It could be done of course, and I’d buy the model for sure. But I just think it’d largely become an X-Wing Epic Ship - a fairly expensive dust magnet.

Remember the original Imperator was effectively an army in it's own right, acting as a troop transport and armed with weaponry to fight all classes of target, not just other titans. It's a unit likely better suited to a full blown Epic game, where it can have a wider variety of roles to play.

Was Titan Legions a less complex game than AT?

Interestingly my local meta is going the other way - people prefer playing with Knights (not just the broken Porphyrion) over actual Titans.

JWBS wrote:
Was Titan Legions a less complex game than AT?

Yes and no?

Yes it terms of Titans, kind of, but no in terms of all the other things you could bring and do.

Great game - still play it today!

JWBS wrote:
Was Titan Legions a less complex game than AT?

In Titan Legions you got two sheets of A4 for your Imperator which put together. Mostly that was allocating power to the various segments of the unit to use weapons and features like shields and repair. Segments could also take individual damage. It was token heavy.

Gargants for Orks were the same.

So it was probably "as complex" in depths of depth



Of course once titans were used in Epic they simplified the system, otherwise it would be too time consuming/complex.

I skipped the Grandmaster edition due to budget and the limited contents of that starter, would this new upcoming starter be a better "starting" experience to get into the game proper?

 Overread wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Was Titan Legions a less complex game than AT?

Of course once titans were used in Epic they simplified the system, otherwise it would be too time consuming/complex.

Yeah my question was vague but this is what I was thinking - to allow for a higher and more diverse set of models in AT (ie an Imperator & more), something about the current rules or playstyle would likely have to be sacrificed or otherwise changed.

 BrookM wrote:
I skipped the Grandmaster edition due to budget and the limited contents of that starter, would this new upcoming starter be a better "starting" experience to get into the game proper?

Value depending, I'd say yes. Reavers and Warhounds are a very capable force. The light maniple is quite nasty in getting free shots with your reavers when you blow out shields on a Titan with your warhounds. Cerastus Knights are nasty as well. Ignore them at your peril.

2 Reaver + 2 Warhound is what a starter for this game should have been. Although it's not really a 2 player starter box that you can split like the article suggest. You also only get 1 set of stratagem it seem.

JWBS wrote:
You reckon it's definitely inevitable? Disclaimer, I don't play this game, but surely any game that includes an Imperator is going to be vastly different to anything played right now? (Like, it alone will account for as many models as the whole opposing army, plus the interactions might be weird, seeing as half of the weapons on the other army probably can't hurt it?). Having said that, they did have them in the old games so I could be totally wrong about all of that.

At the end of the day Adeptus Titanicus is a game designed for titans and if 40K can field a Warlord titan then I have no doubt at all that AT will have an Imperator Titan at some point.

Warhounds and Knights - in the fluff - have been known to destroy Imperators( Paragon of Terra, Tantorus Magnificat ). I will venture that we'll see Ursus claws for the hounds when they introduce titans larger than the Warlord.

JWBS wrote:

 Overread wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Was Titan Legions a less complex game than AT?

Of course once titans were used in Epic they simplified the system, otherwise it would be too time consuming/complex.

Yeah my question was vague but this is what I was thinking - to allow for a higher and more diverse set of models in AT (ie an Imperator & more), something about the current rules or playstyle would likely have to be sacrificed or otherwise changed.

Actually, the more I think about it, no, not really.

Points-wise, an Imperator is a lot in Titan Legions and would clearly be a lot in Adeptus Titanicus (current version!) too.

Yeah now that I think about it, from my very vague memories of seeing the game being played, it was generally just an Imperator + another thing or two versus a few mega-gargants, so not vastly different to AT. I don't think I ever saw Space Marine, Epic etc being played.

In terms of the new boxed set?

It's a better start than the Grand Master Edition.

See, multiple Warhounds and Reavers are always welcome. They're very flexible Titans, and depending on maniple and weapon load out, can fulfil surprisingly different roles.

Warlord? Bit more set in it's ways. It's the powerhouse there to do damage. And by no means will every player really desire more than one in their Maniple.

So in terms of value and flexibility (without knowing the price, which could change things) this is looking really, really good.

Heck, one each between friends and you've a solid Maniple each, which won't necessarily act the same.

Hopefully this maybe signals that they like the smaller starters with smaller price tags better than the AT GM (or Necromunda DU) style mega boxes.

The imperator is a pretty important display piece, and on those grounds alone it would be a money maker with fan demand regardless of how it was for the health of the game. There’s also a lot of overestimating how large it would be going on based on either not looking at current art or not realising the spires are comparatively thin and decorative but account for a third or more of the total height.

That said: Plenty of people leave superheavies out of regular 40k. If an imperator turned out to be poorly designed as far as rules went I’d imagine it’d go the same way. Doesn’t mean that a long term guard player in a no-superheavies meta isn’t fairly likely to have a baneblade in a cabinet at home.

 BrookM wrote:
I skipped the Grandmaster edition due to budget and the limited contents of that starter, would this new upcoming starter be a better "starting" experience to get into the game proper?

Definitely! A solid maniple and supporting banner. Theres also at least some variety of units and weapons here even for a proper two player open-play game, and scenery isn't hard to make for AT.

Also, while its a bit of effort, one can squeeze a third warhound - maybe even a forth - out of this set, depending on their modelling skill.

I'm just hoping they create the Imperator due to their method of designing at 40k scale and then scaling down, as I'd like to see if FW are actually mad enough to release a 40k scale imperator (if it's even theoretically possible to create a model that size that doesn't collapse under its own weight)!

 xttz wrote:
We're much more like to see the other new titan classes (scale 5 & 7) and chaos variants before an Imperator. FW staff have even said that they think a single unit that big will warp the game and generally be unfun to play against.

It's kind of funny they're of that opinion, and they sell Knights for 40k, because that's how I feel about Knights in 40k - they warp the game around them.

Chopstick wrote:
2 Reaver + 2 Warhound is what a starter for this game should have been. Although it's not really a 2 player starter box that you can split like the article suggest. You also only get 1 set of stratagem it seem.

Yeah, Reavers and Warhounds will give first-timers a MUCH better idea of the gameplay. AT is a game of maneuver. Warlords and Knights was a weird mix that led to static, samey game experiences. It's such a bad introduction to the game.

Add a Warlord to this starter and you have a rock-solid Axiom maniple perfect for confrontation-level games. Well done, GW.


Regarding Imperators...they're a model company first, so it will probably happen someday. But I don't think it's needed or even good for the game.


@Alpharius - Welcome to the beautiful game! Have you shared pics of your robots yet?

 gorgon wrote:

Regarding Imperators...they're a model company first, so it will probably happen someday. But I don't think it's needed or even good for the game.

Y'know, your Ember Wolves will need something to pull with their Ursus Claws...

For an Imperator, I expect something in resin, the size and price of the 28mm Acastus knight, but more spindly, like how the AT warlord compares to the 28mm Knight Paladin.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
For an Imperator, I expect something in resin, the size and price of the 28mm Acastus knight, but more spindly, like how the AT warlord compares to the 28mm Knight Paladin.

Yeah...they'll probably do it that way, mostly intended as a collector's piece for the FW whales. But then people will freak out about the price. *shrug*

@Samus -- I'm actually expecting the claw rules to underwhelm. But I'll take some regardless and figure out how to make them work.

 xttz wrote:
FW staff have even said that they think a single unit that big will warp the game and generally be unfun to play against.

Like that's ever stopped them before.

Right...28mm Warlords for 40K tables. And per FW, they sold more of those than they ever dreamed they would.

Where there's a whale, there's a way. *shrug* But I also wouldn't hold my breath waiting for one. Probably years down the road.

 gorgon wrote:
Where there's a whale, there's a way.

I wonder if anyone out there is wealthy and interested enough to say to FW/GW something like “OK, here’s a deal: if you guys design it, I will pay for the mould and first pressing, straight up. Seriously, here’s the number of my concierge at the bank, call her up when you have a price” and mean it…

Oh I'm sure there are - thing is once you're that wealthy you might as well start your own casting business. The only other way would be to simply buy into shares of GW, however with the recent boom chances are that won't work now or at least will be expensive and slow. The time to buy out a majority shareholder amount was years ago.

Also GW isn't desperate for cash and one thing I can say for them is that they've already wanted to and have, retained a generally strong hold over their IP and product/lore. Having some super rich person throw money at them to make models might be something they'd take up, or they might avoid it under the risk that this outside influence could end up damaging the company down the line.

Obviously said rich guy would just hire a sculptor to create a master for resin casting. Maintain control, own the molds, etc.

Assuming that AT maintains popularity and profitability in the long term, they'll do an Imperator eventually.

...but it's not going to happen any time soon. They've got bigger fish to fry.

An Imperator would be interesting. If only to see how its redesigned. But I'd rather see more engines like the Warbringer that are between the traditional three classes.