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Beneath, Between and Behind

One of the things that struck me recently watching the news reports of the fan reaction to England games, is the worrying amount of footage of boozed-up morons destroying public property and of course, there is the worrying statistic about domestic abuse in the wake of England matches.

https://twitter.com/NHSEngland/status/1017131119895072768

As uncomfortable #football and #EngCro truth. Domestic Violence and the #WorldCup are closely linked, with reported incidents up by 26% if England plays, 38% if England loses and 11% the next day, win or lose. Think first. http://ow.ly/YVeJ30kUrmm #EnglandCroatia #WorldCup2018


I'm not trying to suggest it is anything to do with England or football but I do believe it has everything to do with the worrying attitude we have to alcohol consumption in this country. Go to any town centre late on a Friday or Saturday night and you will witness scenes of violence, public disorder, anti-social behaviour and so forth simply because a worrying tranche of society do not see any problem in drinking literally unto unconsciousness. Watch any of these 'police camera action' type TV shows and you see huge amounts of police resources and manpower being wasted in dealing with pissed up thugs and comatose women. I would love to know the statistics for the amount of money spent on policing drunks and the money spent on patching up drunk people by the NHS. I'm sure some will say it's only a small minority who spoil it for everyone else and I'm sure that is true but then again, its a very significant minority. It's not the people who can drink responsibly that cause the trouble but we still need to spend the time, money and effort in dealing with the consequences.

It was instructive to me to see the comparison between England and Croatia fans on BBC news reacting to the match. With the English fans clips, without exception, when the goal went in there was pints being thrown everywhere. Then the BBC showed a picture of Croatia fans celebrating in Zagreb - they appeared to be doing nothing more controversial than setting off a flare.

Why do we as a nation (or indeed, group of nations), have such a problem with alcohol consumption? Do other countries have similar levels of consumption? Do other countries tolerate their booze better? It's often said our restrictive licensing laws mean people try and squeeze drinking as much as they can into a short time but I suspect if pubs were open longer, we would just see worse problems. Whenever Brits go abroad, they seem to drink just as much, if not even more - it's juts then they are drunk all day instead of part of the day. It cannot be coincidence that places like Ibiza are trying to ban/limit the amount of English holidaymakers as they are so concerned and fed up with boozy Brits. I cringe whenever I see English people abroad, I have to confess. It makes me embarrassed of my country.

I personally am very torn about the issue - don't get me wrong, I am not a prude or abolitionist - I love a bottle of wine and a whisky on a Friday evening but then again, I have never felt the urge to vomit or urinate in the street, punch my girlfriend/wife or smash a shop window. I personally think alcohol is one of the most socially devastating drugs around yet we seem to tolerate and indeed, venerate it in this country and I am not sure we can ever break the cycle. Maybe with better education? I don't know what the solution is.

In fact, do you even think there is a problem? What's your view on it? I can't imagine that any of you reading this would think the antics seen in towns across the land every week are really acceptable in any way. Do you think we should ban it or further regulate its sale? More taxation? I can't help thinking that banning or restricting alcohol simply opens the door to other, even worse drugs - like those mystery untested and unregulated hallucinogens bought blind off the internet that people seem to find appealing. We could be swapping one problem for another.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/12 08:46:29


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Dublin, Ireland

Exact same situation in Ireland.
Pick any Friday/Saturday night (hell even student midweek drinking nights) in any average town/city and its usually carnage. Public disorder incidents are rampant.
Abroad it is much the same from my own personal experiences albeit with probably more of a happy go lucky drunkeness than the english.
There have been views put forward I've read that the irish/english are more inrtoverted as cultures/peoples and the drink lets us come out of our shells more. Im not sure I'd agree with that fully - I think it has more to do cultural history - we see our dads and uncles and friends and family on the drink since we were toddlers and so follow suit. Added to that the pub - especially in Ireland has always been THE focal point for social interactions.

I had an interesting conversation with some friends the other week about alcohol consumption and addiction and posited the generation born in the 70s (i.e. me )will be the first to feel genuinely real health effects from alcohol as they reach their later years.
The logic was the abundance of cheap drink, nightclubs, stay at home drinking, raves, extended opening hours, more disposable income etc were all absent for our parents generations born in the 40s 50s 60s (hell pubs in Ireland used to be closed on Sundays).
We came to the conclusion none of us had been actually off the drink for longer than a month or two in the last 20 years which was a sobering thought (ironic as we were all drinking during the conversation).

Interested in other countries views and personal drink habits as several of my family have or are alcoholics.
Good topic Filbert.

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 Ratius wrote:
Exact same situation in Ireland.
Pick any Friday/Saturday night (hell even student midweek drinking nights) in any average town/city and its usually carnage. Public disorder incidents are rampant.
Abroad it is much the same from my own personal experiences albeit with probably more of a happy go lucky drunkeness than the english.
There have been views put forward I've read that the irish/english are more inrtoverted as cultures/peoples and the drink lets us come out of our shells more. Im not sure I'd agree with that fully - I think it has more to do cultural history - we see our dads and uncles and friends and family on the drink since we were toddlers and so follow suit. Added to that the pub - especially in Ireland has always been THE focal point for social interactions.

I had an interesting conversation with some friends the other week about alcohol consumption and addiction and posited the generation born in the 70s (i.e. me )will be the first to feel genuinely real health effects from alcohol as they reach their later years.
The logic was the abundance of cheap drink, nightclubs, stay at home drinking, raves, extended opening hours, more disposable income etc were all absent for our parents generations born in the 40s 50s 60s (hell pubs in Ireland used to be closed on Sundays).
We came to the conclusion none of us had been actually off the drink for longer than a month or two in the last 20 years which was a sobering thought (ironic as we were all drinking during the conversation).

Interested in other countries views and personal drink habits as several of my family have or are alcoholics.
Good topic Filbert.


Interesting to hear that Ireland has a similar problem but not that surprising inasmuch as Ireland seems very much culturally similar to the UK so I am not surprised you share our drinking habits.

With regards to the health issues, it's happening right now. I can't find the link at the moment, but there was a BBC report not so long ago that was showing that instances of severe liver cirrhosis was skyrocketing in under 30's and that experts were shocked at the liver damage even people in their early 20's were suffering.

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I'm not sure we can really use the limited licencing hours as an excuse anymore. We've had extended hours and even 24 hour licencing for quite some time now (Just checked and it was 2005), so there's been no need to throw the pints down your neck as fast as you can to get them in before the Last Orders bell for a while. I don't think further taxation will help either and if anything I think it's part of the problem, with drinks in those few remaining pubs costing so much as I understand it there's a tendency to pre-load before a night out so that people are often already drunk before the evening even begins and whilst they could just carefully drink a unit an hour to maintain that level, it's not surprising people don't and just wind up getting drunker and drunker. To be fair here, I can't really say I can blame people for doing that either, I've fairly recently bought drinks in pubs on a few occasions for the first time in ages and I'm not getting much change out of £10 for a couple of pints, it's not much more than that to buy a slab of 12 or even 18 cans in some supermarkets so if I was looking to make a good alcohol fueled evening of it I know what I'd do.

Banning it wouldn't help either IMO, alcohol is far too ingrained in our culture at the moment and it would just lead to smuggling or diluting proper spirits with potentially harmful chemicals to make smuggling gang's profits go further, pretty much what happened in the US during Prohibition.

To be honest though I'm not sure what if anything the answer is, either to why we do it or how to stop it. Growing up in north-west Germany in the 1980s and 1990s there didn't seem to be the same kind of mentality among the locals, even the British squaddies tended to be fairly well behaved for the most part over there even though there was a very definite drinking culture on the military bases and alcohol was ridiculously cheap, even if the strongest stuff was rationed.

Perhaps the better option is to look at the example of smoking where it seems a long, gradual process has made a difference in reducing tabacco usage, but I think that you're probably looking at a generation or two to turn it around.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/12 13:38:13


 
   
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Somewhere in southern England.

I think there are four main groups of alcohol users and it comes down to age.

People like my parents don't drink a lot because they were brought up in a time when it was a lot more expensive and there wasn't so much choice.

For my generation (I'm 56) the cheaper prices and easier availability of wine, for instance, led to increased drinking. My kind of people don't see getting paralytic as the definition of a good night out, but there certainly is a secret generation of Waitrose winos getting quietly pie-eyed in front of Midsomer Murders repeats.

Then we have the teenage piss-heads overgrowing to 30/40 year olds, which is a hangover from lad culture of the 1990s. It's the younger versions of those who are passing out in city centres on weekends.

What I am reading though, is that the millenial generation are a lot more abstemious. My daughter, aged slightly under 19, hardly drinks at all and only occasionally will take a glass of weak cider.

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 simonr1978 wrote:
I've fairly recently bought drinks in pubs on a few occasions for the first time in ages and I'm not getting much change out of £10 for a couple of pints


£5 to 5.50 a pint in my local. Can't afford it!
   
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Personally I think the idea of a "bar or pub or club" just needs to die. People want to get trashed at home it's not a problem (at least it's not disturbing the peace) but when they go out an public and do it - it is a real problem. Ultimately though - this idea can't die. It is far to ingrained into the economy and culture of the people. It's just a problem we have to live with.

I can assure you though - it's not a British problem. This happens in every western culture. It might be worse in some countries but stats like the ones you were posting I am sure are similar where ever you go in the west (holidays/world cup/superbowl/ect).


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I think, like smoking, it needs to be some sort of gradual, generational shift in order to effect change rather than any seismic upheaval. I find it a little disheartening that we seem to be so wedded to the belief in this country that no social situation is not benefited by the presence of copious alcohol. Whenever there is anything significant going on, like Wimbledon, or a World Cup or a Bank Holiday, you get a plethora of supermarket offers touting cheap and plentiful booze. Promoting responsible drinking indeed.

I too have seen reports that the younger generation are much more likely to be teetotalers than any other generation before them. I worry that it is because they are turning to other means; I'm not suggesting they are all crack or smack addicts but there is an alarming rise in the consumption of so-called legal highs and they cause a whole raft of problems on their own:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-44501924

Not to suggest your daughter is partaking of course KK! I am sure she is a sober and responsible young adult. But I fear that others are not and that denied alcohol either for monetary or ideological issues, they are turning elsewhere and all we are doing as a society is shifting one area to another.

I'm torn because I like a drink, in fact I am having a couple of pints tonight but I also think alcohol consumption is one of the most insipid and insidious things in our society right now. I'm a massive hypocrite, I freely admit but as a poster above says, it isn't the people drinking at home that are the problem.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
Personally I think the idea of a "bar or pub or club" just needs to die. People want to get trashed at home it's not a problem (at least it's not disturbing the peace) but when they go out an public and do it - it is a real problem. Ultimately though - this idea can't die. It is far to ingrained into the economy and culture of the people. It's just a problem we have to live with.

I can assure you though - it's not a British problem. This happens in every western culture. It might be worse in some countries but stats like the ones you were posting I am sure are similar where ever you go in the west (holidays/world cup/superbowl/ect).

I don't think it's a bar/pub problem. You can go to plenty of places and have a good night in a pub and when the nights over people just wander home and that's that. A lot of places I went in the USA were like that, less so in Australia, though it strongly depends on the specific suburb/town. I grew up in a working class suburb (read: bogan) and every night you go out by the end of the night it seems like too many people are ruled up and ready for a fight. It's not something I really experienced in the areas I visited in the US (not saying it doesn't exist though) or in the more middle class suburbs in Australia.

I do wonder how much sports play in to it. While I've always enjoyed playing sports I never got in to being a spectator and have always found it curious how much people's emotions can be driven by nothing more than bein a spectator.
   
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Somewhere... over the rainbow

Clearly you have never been to Russia. When the life expectancy of men in your country is like 20 years less than other developed countries just because of excessive alcohol consumption, that is when you have an alcohol problem. Britain does not have a real alcohol problem.

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Alcohol culture or lack of it is (to me) a worrying subject of Slovenia. The majority of observed people seem incapable to let loose without it and I do find it rather disturbing how little self-control is present when it comes to its consummation. Of course, my favourite line must be verbally attacking someone, should he expressed that he doesn't feel like it or doesn't drink.

I am sceptical on whatever ban or limit on it would change anything. As long as you're being raised in such a mindset that encourages and wants you to drink from a relatively early age, nothing is really going to change.
   
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I don't think it's a bar/pub problem. You can go to plenty of places and have a good night in a pub and when the nights over people just wander home and that's that. A lot of places I went in the USA were like that, less so in Australia, though it strongly depends on the specific suburb/town. I grew up in a working class suburb (read: bogan) and every night you go out by the end of the night it seems like too many people are ruled up and ready for a fight. It's not something I really experienced in the areas I visited in the US (not saying it doesn't exist though) or in the more middle class suburbs in Australia.

I do wonder how much sports play in to it. While I've always enjoyed playing sports I never got in to being a spectator and have always found it curious how much people's emotions can be driven by nothing more than bein a spectator.


I agree to be honest. It depends on the bar to a degree but social drinking is not generally that unhealthy IMO, providing it's not done that much too excess. I think you have to make certain allowances for younger drinkers who are finding their feet to a degree, I know I would quite regularly get frankly moronically drunk when I was learning to drink and finding my limits and unfortunately at that kind of age the only time I knew what my limits where was when I was way past them.

People want to get trashed at home it's not a problem (at least it's not disturbing the peace) but when they go out an public and do it - it is a real problem.


I don't think getting drunk alone at home is better, far from it, and it's far too simplistic to say that you're not hurting anyone in that situation. You lose the element of social interaction which whilst it wasn't necessarily a good thing when I was growing up, in the 1990s with the Lad culture in the UK drinking had an almost competitive edge to it, it can act as a bit of a brake too. It can also not be healthy for other family members to see drinking to drunkeness assuming that there are others around and if not solitary drinking is one massive red-flag for alcohol dependency or full blown alcoholism.

In my own case I've had a somewhat uneven relationship with alcohol over the past couple of decades, I can go extended periods without drinking at all (Months or even an entire year at one stage) and working permanent nights for most of that period meant I wouldn't drink for typically 6 days out of 7 so it's not like I'm dependent on it. However, when I do drink I make a good job of it, I could never see myself just having a few pints but I think my drinking would be more healthy if I could realistically afford and justify doing so in a pub setting rather than sitting at home working my way through a case of beer or a few bottles of wine.

Plus as I said, I do think pre-loading is a significant part of the problem in the UK at least.
   
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UK

You could curb it significantly right now if you banned or taxed the sale of alcohol outside of pubs/places of consumption (ergo supermarkets) so that the prices were brought into line with hte current pub-prices of alcohol.

Right now a lot of people might drink at the pub, but they are only topping up what they've already downed at home/outside which they bought far cheaper from the supermarket.



Of course price increases only go so far. I do agree it wants to be a change like smoking whereby its gradually phased out. Lets not forget that in the WWII era and after, everyone smoked. It was seen as totally normal. Watch films from that era and most of the cast smoked on set; my father tells tales of pubs and cinemas with a thick haze of smoke and nearly every public seat in a cinema or bus or train or car had an ash tray (car ones being particularly useful for sweet wrappers too).


There is a huge drinking culture and I remember talking to some students at uni who with copious free time and some coin could only think of going to the pub every evening they could. Indeed films (a lot of USA ones) promote excess drinking as THE thing to do at uni. That its the culmination of life to go out and get almost paralytic.

   
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I think that would do more harm than good personally. I think a better move would be if pubs could lower their prices so that they were closer to supermarket prices rather than around 10x more expensive so that people didn't feel that had to pre-load in order to have an affordable night's drinking. I'm not saying it would solve the issue of drunken troublemakers, I just think it would be better for people to go out at 6 or 7 in the evening and start drinking then instead of already being half a dozen drinks in.

An outright ban or excessive taxing would encourage bootlegging, smuggling and counterfeiting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/12 15:53:29


 
   
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Leeds, UK

I like a drink, and can drink a lot, but I've never understood the drinking until paralytic attitude that some people have.

I think Scotland has done a good thing in introducing minimum pricing.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Clearly you have never been to Russia. When the life expectancy of men in your country is like 20 years less than other developed countries just because of excessive alcohol consumption, that is when you have an alcohol problem. Britain does not have a real alcohol problem.


Just because Russia has a worse problem, doesn't mean Britain's problem isn't 'real'.
   
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Somewhere in southern England.

There is a marvellous varied culture around "drinking" which is nothing to do with booze cruises and vomiting outside kebab shops at midnight on a Friday.

Look at wine, craft beer, artisan gin, cocktails and all these elaborations.

Taken in moderation, drink is an enhancement to life, and only unhealthy when taken to excess.

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It annoys me that the NHS has to station ambulances in City Centres on weekends, because they know that a sufficiently large number of people are so irresponsible that they are going to hospitalize themselves every single weekend. It is a drain on resources to an incredible level just to let some irresponsible idiots be looked after like babies by the state because they have no ability to control themselves.

I am a lefty, but that disgusts me.

   
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I used to drink to excess because I was insecure and unhappy in groups, and drink was an effective band aid for that. There were a few of my friends who felt the same way. Now we are grown up and matured we can meet up and have a drink or two, or none, and it's all fine. Once in a blue moon we will push the boat out.

Other friends would drink to excess because that's the way their brain is wired, they are addicts and all they want is more more more. Now they are grown up and matured and they only drink soda when we meet up.

One of my friends has grown up, and for whatever reason is still insecure and unhappy. Maybe because he's the only one of us who can't seem to find a partner. He certainly says some incel-ish stuff when he's drunk. He still drinks to excess on the regular and works a menial job. It's kinda sad but he's still one of our mates so we do our best for him.

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 Da Boss wrote:
It annoys me that the NHS has to station ambulances in City Centres on weekends, because they know that a sufficiently large number of people are so irresponsible that they are going to hospitalize themselves every single weekend. It is a drain on resources to an incredible level just to let some irresponsible idiots be looked after like babies by the state because they have no ability to control themselves.

I am a lefty, but that disgusts me.


Perhaps a start would be to bill people for their medical expenses when their drinking gets them hurt?

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France

It is a well known fact that English people drink too much,I thought you were aware of this ?

   
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 Da Boss wrote:
It annoys me that the NHS has to station ambulances in City Centres on weekends, because they know that a sufficiently large number of people are so irresponsible that they are going to hospitalize themselves every single weekend. It is a drain on resources to an incredible level just to let some irresponsible idiots be looked after like babies by the state because they have no ability to control themselves.

I am a lefty, but that disgusts me.

Oktoberfest in Germany has “IV saline stations” to sober folks up.... frankly I think that’s genius as it ought to drive down the # of drunks in the streets.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/13 01:47:33


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America has a pretty hefty drinking problem too. Maybe not as bad as England, but close.

The irony is that things like repeat DWIs are often punished with a minor fine, while the kid busted with a single joint once can see twenty years and more in prison

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 Overread wrote:
I remember talking to some students at uni who with copious free time


They're probably flunking their courses if they have lots of free time in uni.
   
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LA

I drink alone all the time, but the thing is I just genuinely like the taste of a quality beer. Some people drink their starbucks, their whatever, or smoke...people have their vices. I however get home after a full day and pop a beer. I've dialed things down significantly since a few years back. I suffered two concussions separately from by drunken bumbling around/falling over. I should've died a dozen times over from alcohol poisoning but somehow pulled through my early 20s, but not without some real damage. Luckily I know my limits and can drink in moderation now.

The reason I started drinking in the first place though was to loosen my shyness and socialize better. Next thing you know I can't have fun around other people unless i'm under the influence. It's a slippery slope if you go down that road. It's better if you start thinking about alcohol as a poison, which it is. Alcohol also damages the part of the brain that gives you the willpower/mental ability to stop once you start.

I also wrote this as i'm drinking a beer, cheers folks!


 
   
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Herbington wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Clearly you have never been to Russia. When the life expectancy of men in your country is like 20 years less than other developed countries just because of excessive alcohol consumption, that is when you have an alcohol problem. Britain does not have a real alcohol problem.


Just because Russia has a worse problem, doesn't mean Britain's problem isn't 'real'.

It depends on what you view as a problem.

In any case, alcohol problems aren't solvable in my opinion (at least not on the society level). Alcohol is too important to too many people, it is much more ingrained into society than something like smoking ever was. Plenty of countries, including the USA, Russia and the Soviet Union have tried to combat alcohol consumption in various ways, from increasing prices to propaganda to outright banning it. It has all failed, and most solutions have actually backfired spectacularly with results ranging from a massive increase in organised crime to increase in drug abuse to mass poisonings to riots and outright rebellions and revolution. In my opinion, if people want to get drunk, it would be unwise to try to stop them or make it difficult for them. I think it is better to focus on trying to limit damage drunk people can do, and try to encourage people to drink beer and other light alcoholic drinks rather than stuff with a higher alcohol content.

А сегодня, что для завтра сделал Я?
But today I don't feel like doing anything... 
   
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UK

I think it can be solved and controlled and at least the worst end of it curtailed, but it requires a steady program of slowly shifting perceptions and attitudes rather than a hammer-fist (which is often what you get when its done for political reasons, esp if its in a democracy and the politics want a result in 1-3 years so that it looks good on their term in office).

Sharp knee-jerk reactions get a sharp knee jerk reaction backlash at them.


It's something that is heavily engrained in a lot of things, heck as Geeks and gamers nearly every single fantasy "quest" involves or is born within a pub. Interestingly even during the days of heavy smoking its never written nor focused about as much as drink is (in fact the only time I can recall reading of a smoking scene with any focus to it was in The Hobbit when Bilbo and Gandalf were blowing smoke rings).

If anything it might be easier to curb the focus so that it doesn't all happen on the same night, ergo if you can't stop the drinking at least try to break it up so that it doesn't all happen on a Friday night. At least then it would spread the load instead of creating a heavy weighted situation.

Social anxiety is also a big thing that drink is used to overcome and we are only really testing the waters on true understanding and study of such areas of our mental structure. Revelations and greater understanding there could yield methods and ways to help give more confidence to people from a younger age - ergo how to actually teach socialising (its mostly done at present with sending kids to school and letting them mostly work it out on their own).
   
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UK

There's definitely a problem in the UK were drinking to excess leads to violence and bad behaviour to an extent not seen in some other European countries

the reason is clearly social and is probably tied up with personal experience (seeing older family members and friends doing it means young people will be more likely to do the same as they grow up and start drinking), and with media in general (watch films, tv, read magazines, books etc where drinking = getting hammered, having a fight etc means that's what folk do, and I strongly suspect social media is amplifying this in recent years)

The demise of 'local' pubs meaning people are more likely to go 'into town' is also an issue, as people are more likely to behave badly away from their home area, they're also more likely to perceive others behaviour as threatening and thus ramp up their own aggression so incidents that wouldn't result in a fight in a pub near home where they know those involved will result in a fight in a city centre bar full of total strangers

I'd like to see alcohol bans being given to those who get involved in alcohol related bad behavoir as part of sentences/caution. Cautions/small fines/suspended are not going to be much of a deterrent and that's what offenders get now unless the violence is really, really, bad or somebody involved is seriously hurt or killed, but tack on a year or 2 year ban on drinking that the police/courts could use to fast track regular offenders to heavy fines/enforced detox or even prison might well help

 
   
Made in gb
Most Glorious Grey Seer






There’s two other parts to this problem.

Supermarkets selling booze at stupidly low prices. People pre-drink, getting loaded before going out.

Nightclubs that aren’t refusing to serve people already hammered.

Add in ‘party’ drugs, and you get a serious problem, especially when it youths that haven’t yet learned their limits.

Me? I can do 9 pints of an evening, and not have legs like snapped candles. My friends drink less as their tolerance is lower, but again, don’t end up with legs like snapped candles. And it’s been a long time since we did so.

Fed up for Scalpers? Why not join us? 
   
Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




 Iron_Captain wrote:
Plenty of countries, including the USA, Russia and the Soviet Union have tried to combat alcohol consumption in various ways, from increasing prices to propaganda to outright banning it. It has all failed, and most solutions have actually backfired spectacularly with results ranging from a massive increase in organised crime to increase in drug abuse to mass poisonings to riots and outright rebellions and revolution. In my opinion, if people want to get drunk, it would be unwise to try to stop them or make it difficult for them. I think it is better to focus on trying to limit damage drunk people can do, and try to encourage people to drink beer and other light alcoholic drinks rather than stuff with a higher alcohol content.


Aye. We had Prohibition in Finland too, 1919-1932. It didn't really do much except more damage. Criminals that brought in strong spirits from Estonia or Germany became legendary figures "fighting the man", and where before people would have had a shot of vodka with a meal or some beer for thirst, drinking to excess only became more common during Prohibition and after alcohol was once again legally available. It also cost the life of over 40 police officers, and the smuggling and violence brought on by people switching to stronger drink could make up 80% of all police work. Plus ofc home-made alcohol might be impure and kill or seriously injure drinkers...

Yes, some did drink too much before, but during or after? If there was booze you had to drink as much of it as you could, as quickly as possible, before someone took it away again! It's only in the past 15-20 years we've been slowly getting away from the "drink yourself senseless, then get in a fight" Fridays, not by making drink illegal but different weaker alternatives becoming more popular.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/13 15:07:14


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Drink Driving penalties also have a bigger influence in more rural areas. When you can't just get a cab or bus or train home and have to drive to get anywhere a lot of people now don't drink whilst out. Whilst the nightclubs and bars in big urban areas are full, the country pub is almost dead in comparison (in fact most that survive are more a restaurant with a bar than they are a pub that serves food).

Like making soft drinks more popular, the drink driving doesn't take the drink away, it just makes it impractical to risk having more than one or two pints if you've got to drive.

Of course urban areas and groups going out drinking can get around that and many nightclubs now give designated drivers free drinks too
   
 
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