40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**Vryce**

I'm stoked that consolidation into combats is a thing again. And glad to hear that command squads and their like still perform the same basic function as before - shielding the commander from attacks, if in a slightly different manner. And the best part - "Terminators are going to feel like Terminators".

My GKT army waits in anticipation...

**Matt.Kingsley**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Summary:

2nd Warhammer Live Q&A wrote:

Spoiler:

> Primaris Marines can be made from preexisting Marines.
> Blood Angel Primaris Marines are still affected by Red Thirst (and potentially Black Rage).
> Mk IX Armour is a mystery. What happened to it? They aren't telling us (yet).
> Guilliman *might* make some changes to the Codex Astartes.
> Primaris Marines are more resilient to Chaos, but can potentially be corrupted by chaos still .
> More Primarchs will return (a cowled one, so Mortarion most likely).

> Consolidating into Combat.
> Power Fists and the like are -1 To Hit.
> You can either pick psychic powers from the chart or roll (like in Age of Sigmar).
> Perils of the Warp cuases Mortal Wounds.
> There's no amry specific Detachments - only army specific stratagems. Basic Detachments apparently cover everything already.
> Imperial Fist stratagem can make them better at shooting. White Scars can us a stratgem to Hit & Run.
> Factions can also use their Command Points before deployment to change how their army is constructed (?).
> Unqiue Strategems are based on main Keywords in your Detachments.
> Tactical Reserves is NOT supersceded by any army rules.
> Characters can still travel in tranports with other units.
> Transports can carry multiple units.
> What can be transported is based on Keywords (like Infantry).
> How to keep characters safe: Almost all Command Squads have rules that allows them to intercept wounds from characters.
> Drop Pods: they and the units they contain must be over 9" away from enemies when deployed.
> Grav hasn't neccerssarily be toned down, but it should still be balanced.
> Invulnerable saves work basically the same as they do now.
> Many armies have abilities that allows them to save wounds after Armour or Invulnerable saves (Dark Eldar get Power From Pain, Disgustingly Resilient for Nurgle Daemons). These saves occur after damage, so if an attack causes 5 damage you need to make 5 seperate secondary saves.
> Defender decides casualties - no longer directional.
> Primaris Marines and normal Marines tend to have different functions (Tacticals vs Intercessor are used as an example).
> Mix between totally new psychic powers and adaptation of pre-existing and classic powers (though they may function differently).
> Terminators are going to feel like Terminators.

> They will collect feedback through Facebook and eventually through the Warhammer Community site where everyone can vote on it. Also feedback through events and Twitch.tv.
> GW will still be involved with the tournament scene, especially with major tournaments. Apparently they're going to be involved more.
> They will continue to playtest the game post-release, both for Matched and Narrative standpoints.

> Pete Foley does, indeed, thin his paints.

I don't think I missed anything.

EDIT: Fixing spelling errors.

Nice!

PM Rippy a copy so it'll go into the OP!

And done

Thanks for the heads up.

**Kanluwen**

Vryce wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Vryce wrote:

Well, to be fair, in those other articles, I don't think they mentioned those units in the preview (I didn't read the Chaos Daemons one, so maybe they did talk about them there). However, for Tau, they highlighted one of the more iconic units in their dex to showcase that rule. Possibly because Tau suits -don't like- being in CC. Whereas things like Scourges, DP's, Tzeentchian Daemon stuff, aren't nearly as fethed when that happens to them.

I can see both sides to the argument here, but I'm actually leaning a bit more to the side of the keyword "Fly" handing XV-8's this ability, which will very likely affect drones as well, since we can see they also have that keyword.

I'm not. I just don't see "Fly" allowing you to act normally after Falling Back. Falling Back has a penalty, and I can't imagine all the things that are currently Jump/Jet Pack Infantry, Jetbikes, Skimmers, or Flying Monstrous Creatures/Flyers getting a free out from Combat to keep shooting or to set up new charges that easily.

Not 'seeing it' =/= not being in the game. And for all we know, things that currently are classified as Fliers - FMC's, may have a different bespoke rule that governs that particular movement.

But, you could easily be correct, and that there's another interaction we just haven't seen yet that allows crisis suits that special ability. But based on the wording of the article, and the fact that they specifically mentioned the bespoke rule 'Fly' as what lets them do that, it's easy to make the correlation between that rule, and the ability.

"Fly" isn't a bespoke rule.

It's a keyword.

We saw that with the Sniper Drone, where it's listed under "Keyword" rather than like the Dark Eldar Wyches' bespoke rule that makes it so you have to roll off to Fall Back.

**Matt.Kingsley**

theharrower wrote:
Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Summary:

2nd Warhammer Live Q&A wrote:

Spoiler:

> Primaris Marines can be made from preexisting Marines.
> Blood Angel Primaris Marines are still affected by Red Thirst (and potentially Black Rage).
> Mk IX Armour is a mystery. What happened to it? They aren't telling us (yet).
> Guilliman *might* make some changes to the Codex Astartes.
> Primaris Marines are more resilient to Chaos, but can potentially be corrupted by chaos still .
> More Primarchs will return (a cowled one, so Mortarion most likely).

> Consolidating into Combat.
> Power Fists and the like are -1 To Hit.
> You can either pick psychic powers from the chart or roll (like in Age of Sigmar).
> Perils of the Warp cuases Mortal Wounds.
> There's no amry specific Detachments - only army specific stratagems. Basic Detachments apparently cover everything already.
> Imperial Fist stratagem can make them better at shooting. White Scars can us a stratgem to Hit & Run.
> Factions can also use their Command Points before deployment to change how their army is constructed (?).
> Unqiue Strategems are based on main Keywords in your Detachments.
> Tactical Reserves is NOT supersceded by any army rules.
> Characters can still travel in tranports with other units.
> Transports can carry multiple units.
> What can be transported is based on Keywords (like Infantry).
> How to keep characters safe: Almost all Command Squads have rules that allows them to intercept wounds from characters.
> Drop Pods: they and the units they contain must be over 9" away from enemies when deployed.
> Grav hasn't neccerssarily be toned down, but it should still be balanced.
> Invulnerable saves work basically the same as they do now.
> Many armies have abilities that allows them to save wounds after Armour or Invulnerable saves (Dark Eldar get Power From Pain, Disgustingly Resilient for Nurgle Daemons). These saves occur after damage, so if an attack causes 5 damage you need to make 5 seperate secondary saves.
> Defender decides casualties - no longer directional.
> Primaris Marines and normal Marines tend to have different functions (Tacticals vs Intercessor are used as an example).
> Mix between totally new psychic powers and adaptation of pre-existing and classic powers (though they may function differently).
> Terminators are going to feel like Terminators.

> They will collect feedback through Facebook and eventually through the Warhammer Community site where everyone can vote on it. Also feedback through events and Twitch.tv.
> GW will still be involved with the tournament scene, especially with major tournaments. Apparently they're going to be involved more.
> They will continue to playtest the game post-release, both for Matched and Narrative standpoints.

> Pete Foley does, indeed, thin his paints.

I don't think I missed anything.

EDIT: Fixing spelling errors.

You missed vehicles locked in close combat can't shoot. Melee armies are faster and do more damage.

I didn't include that first bit because the vehicle article already covered that when it said they shoot like other units.
And they've mentioned the second point a few times before, but I probably should have included it, yeah.

**Leth**

Not gonna lie, I am totally okay with them not making any more generic marine kits. THERE I SAID IT. That line of models is so saturated it doesn't need anything else. After the Primaris Marines I would like them to take that energy and focus on getting other factions up to code like some eldar aspects(although that is a tough one given how unique they all are, Maybe scorpion fire dragon could double up but that is about it.......I suppose they could come up with some 5 man hybrid kits for banshees and scorpions that make two units....)

The line is already past capacity IMO, I cant think of any new units that really add value at this point. We can leave that to FW.

However with Primaris Marines, especially if they fulfill a seperate role then it is actually a meaningful addition and models that I actually would be excited to paint and buy instead of my 10th rhino, or 7th drop pod that I have just for completion sake......

As long as the regular marines are not invalidated RULES wise I am 100% cool with this new direction.

In regards to terminators we already know that they have two wounds and most of the things that completely bypassed their armor provide at least a 6+ now before cover.

For me most of the problems that marines and other related armies had was that they had a specialist in with non-specialists with no way to divide the fire. That is one of the big things that made eldar so powerful: everyone of their units was specialized.

Split fire takes care of that problem and really opens up the options for unit builds. Especially with the removal of the all or nothing AP system and the repointing of heavy and special weapons... Honestly I am SOOOO excited that all of those bits I held on to for so long might actually go on models!!

**Nah Man Pichu**

If anything this is even more of a reason to bring command squads.

To me, with a few exceptions (Ravenwing and Deathwing Cmd Squads

) command squads always felt a little underwhelming when you could just lump your librarian in with a tactical squad.

Now, if you want your character to survive it seems almost common sense to bring them!

I like this very much both from a crunch and fluff perspective!

**Vector Strike**

On consolidanting into combat: does it mean a unit ending a combat can consolidate into a new combat (with a unit not in combat) or just in another combat occuring nearby?

the former is a very dangerous proposition to my Tau

**Leth**

Vector Strike wrote:
On consolidanting into combat: does it mean a unit ending a combat can consolidate into a new combat (with a unit not in combat) or just in another combat occuring nearby?

the former is a very dangerous proposition to my Tau

Makes always jumping away not as easy of a decision huh?

However they might be talking about the fact that when you activate the unit they can move three inches and if you are able to bring units you didnt charge into combat they now count as engaged.

Might need to have them clarify if that refers to the initial consolidation or the end of combat consolidation(if such a thing remains)

**Matt.Kingsley**

From what they said it very much sounded like the former.
Their example was using the consolidation move to charge into a nearby unit of Devastators to prevent them from shooting their heavy weapons in their next turn (either through locking them or forcing them to Fall Back).

**JohnHwangDD**

davou wrote:
Q: what happened to mark 9 armor

A: LOLWUT, its a space myssssterrrrryyyyyy

I thought all copies were issued to Legions 2 and 11.

**lord_blackfang**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Power Fists are -1 To Hit.

I'm happy to say I guessed that one.

I guessed it so hard I put it in my 40k revision years ago!

**Crimson**

Albino Squirrel wrote:
Crimson wrote:
OK. Fluff-wise existing Marines can be 'upgraded' into Primaris. This is good.

How is that good?

I thought people were worried about the existing space marines being phase out. Doesn't this pretty much guarantee that? Surely if a space marine can just be upgraded to a primaris marine, there would be no reason for the chapter masters and named characters to go through that procedure. I was thinking the existence of the named characters would be one of the few things preventing the elimination of "normal" marines.

At this point the eventual phasing out of normal marines is given. This way at least we get to keep to get the existing named characters and histories of the old chapters.

**Thargrim**

The more I read about the new edition the more I think I might actually be able to learn it. The changes to vehicles really make them easier to deal with, less confusion etc. I can't wait to see the datasheet for blight drones, I finally might get motivated to buy one or two. I have a feeling the upcoming plastic type might be too cartoony or busy looking though.

**Crimson**

Galas wrote:

Thank God. So special characters will become "Primaris", and in 3-4 years all the Space Marines (In the fluff) will be probably Primaris, and if all the Space Marines are Primaris Marines, they are just Space Marines again, because you have not "Secondaris" old Marines to compare, so the status quo becomes again the same as before, just with Marines being more powerfull in the fluff, bigger in models, and more powerfull in rules.

(Or at least thats my theory)

I'm pretty certain that this is exactly what happens.

**Median Trace**

I truly hope the Primaris Marine doesn't become the standard. I have an entire Iron Hands army where every single infantry model is converted with bionic bits and Iron Hands shoulder pads. It took a lot of time and money to do this. I am not doing it again. If the Primaris and various offshoots are new special units, GW will still get my money and I will still probably pick up a few infantry kits here and there of the old space marines. If Primaris is the new basic infantry, I probably won't buy anymore space marines.

**Caederes**

kestral wrote:
Lasguns may be out of luck vs a landraider, but a 30 dude platoon will sweep an annihilation barge off the field in one turn with FRFSRF even at long range. Hard to see how light vehicles prosper in this environment. Vehicles assaulting - not sure. It appears that vehicles will have NO SPECIAL RULES WHAT SO EVER. So that means they can be easily trapped by infantry, for example. Looks like Tianamon square, all day, every day.

Huh? 30 Guardsmen with FRFSRF equals 60 shots at long range or 120 shots at short range. Guardsmen presumably still need a 4+ to-hit in shooting. That means you're averaging 30 or 60 hits depending on range. Lasguns are Strength 3, Annihilation Barges are Toughness 6, meaning the Lasguns need 6s to-wound because the Strength is half of the Toughness. You're looking at 5 or 10 Wounds on average depending on range. The Annihilation Barge has a 4+ save, so it will lose 2-3 or 5 Wounds depending on range. It has 8 total Wounds.

How on earth did you come to the conclusion you did? All of these "but lasguns can kill this efficiently now" arguments have zero basis in reality.

**Desubot**

docdoom77 wrote:
I am so stoked that they confirmed defender chooses casualties.

Casualty removal is soooo bad in 7th.

It kinda made sense that things would die from the front when getting shot from the front. but realistically all it did was put special characters wayyy in the back and that looks lame. i love this change. also wonder if snipers can chose their targets too. i know they can for characters but special weapon sniping is important yo.

Median Trace wrote:
I truly hope the Primaris Marine doesn't become the standard. I have an entire Iron Hands army where every single infantry model is converted with bionic bits and Iron Hands shoulder pads. It took a lot of time and money to do this. I am not doing it again. If the Primaris and various offshoots are new special units, GW will still get my money and I will still probably pick up a few infantry kits here and there of the old space marines. If Primaris is the new basic infantry, I probably won't buy anymore space marines.

They are functionally the same. you might be able to add like one unit with a bunch of CC weapons if a CC focused unit exists but it wont downgrade anything for the rest of the old marines. or if characters / chapter masters can be upgraded you might want to upgrade them for that extra wound and attack.

they are not stupid overpowered at all (so far) they are like sternguard with kraken rounds and how often do you see people taking a bunch of those.

**Matt.Kingsley**

I must say though, it's a small downer that there's no faction-specific detachments, however if the basic Detachments + using Command Points to modify them covers all the current detachments, then it won't matter too much.

**Caederes**

The two major problems with directional casualties were that it screwed over your average assault army and it was part of the ridiculous wound allocation shenanigans people played. I'm so glad characters can't join units for that reason, 6th/7th Edition style death stars are one of the worst things to ever happen to 40K, and I was around in the Nob Biker days.

**Dakka Flakka Flame**

Desubot wrote:
docdoom77 wrote:
I am so stoked that they confirmed defender chooses casualties.

Casualty removal is soooo bad in 7th.
It kinda made sense that things would die from the front when getting shot from the front. but realistically all it did was put special characters wayyy in the back and that looks lame. i love this change. also wonder if snipers can chose their targets too. i know they can for characters but special weapon sniping is important yo.

Sniping special weapons is cool, but I can totally see another guardsman scooping up a meltagun after its original user gets shot while if a Primaris Psyker gets sniped that's a different situation.

**Desubot**

Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Desubot wrote:
docdoom77 wrote:
I am so stoked that they confirmed defender chooses casualties.

Casualty removal is soooo bad in 7th.
It kinda made sense that things would die from the front when getting shot from the front. but realistically all it did was put special characters wayyy in the back and that looks lame. i love this change. also wonder if snipers can chose their targets too. i know they can for characters but special weapon sniping is important yo.

Sniping special weapons is cool, but I can totally see another guardsman scooping up a meltagun after its original user gets shot while if a Primaris Psyker gets sniped that's a different situation.

i imagine that is whats happening when getting shot from the front.

but ether way no biggy.

**Nah Man Pichu**

Median Trace wrote:
I truly hope the Primaris Marine doesn't become the standard. I have an entire Iron Hands army where every single infantry model is converted with bionic bits and Iron Hands shoulder pads. It took a lot of time and money to do this. I am not doing it again. If the Primaris and various offshoots are new special units, GW will still get my money and I will still probably pick up a few infantry kits here and there of the old space marines. If Primaris is the new basic infantry, I probably won't buy anymore space marines.

I hear where you're coming from, but sense this change is mostly in the fluff, it's pretty simple for you to keep your existing models and just say

"Yeah, my Iron Hands have been taking their booster shots"

Problems solved.

I myself will probably leave things as they are, unless they start making Primaris kits with different weaponry or more comparable with normal marine rules, I'll stick with my existing dangles.

**ClockworkZion**

Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Median Trace wrote:
I truly hope the Primaris Marine doesn't become the standard. I have an entire Iron Hands army where every single infantry model is converted with bionic bits and Iron Hands shoulder pads. It took a lot of time and money to do this. I am not doing it again. If the Primaris and various offshoots are new special units, GW will still get my money and I will still probably pick up a few infantry kits here and there of the old space marines. If Primaris is the new basic infantry, I probably won't buy anymore space marines.

I hear where you're coming from, but sense this change is mostly in the fluff, it's pretty simple for you to keep your existing models and just say

"Yeah, my Iron Hands have been taking their booster shots"

Problems solved.

I myself will probably leave things as they are, unless they start making Primaris kits with different weaponry or more comparable with normal marine rules, I'll stick with my existing dangles.

Iron Hands will likely just come up with new augmentation options to make themselves tall enough to wear the new Power Armour instead of relying on augmenting their geneseed since they're all "THE FLESH IS WEAK" about that kind of thing.

**gorgon**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
davou wrote:
Q: what happened to mark 9 armor

A: LOLWUT, its a space myssssterrrrryyyyyy

I thought all copies were issued to Legions 2 and 11.

During the Rangdan Xenocides, no less.

**Cothonian**

Just read through the recently released section on vehicles.

They weren't too specific, but it sounds like vehicles will treat melee combat the same as other non-vehicle units. The only thing that worries me about this, is that if they do handle melee in the same way infantry do, that means that in order to break from combat they would have to give up a turn of shooting.

If that is the case, that could be quite rough for my Russes, one tank in a squadron gets charged and the entire three-tank unit has to give up shooting to back up.

Of course I usually bubblewrap my tanks with infantry to prevent them from getting punched, but still.

I'm kind of hoping that vehicles can withdraw from melee without penalty to sum this up.

**Ragnar Blackmane**

buddha wrote:
Vryce wrote:
kestral wrote:
Lasguns may be out of luck vs a landraider, but a 30 dude platoon will sweep an annihilation barge off the field in one turn with FRFSRF even at long range. Hard to see how light vehicles prosper in this environment. Vehicles assaulting - not sure. It appears that vehicles will have NO SPECIAL RULES WHAT SO EVER. So that means they can be easily trapped by infantry, for example. Looks like Tianamon square, all day, every day.

If you've dumped an order into a 30 man blob squad to simply remove ONE Anni-Barge, then the Necron player is probably still ahead in that exchange...

I love the sudden, insane, fear of the humble guardsman that hasn't stopped since 8th news dropped. So much over reacting.

GW is even making fun of that with the latest Regimental Standard: https://regimental-standard.com/2017/05/17/bring-it-down/

@Video Q&A:
Much as expected, big buff for melee with consolidating into combat again (so much for shooting reigning supreme, heh). Sounds more balanced than in 3rd/4th edition too if you can only use it to engage and lock a unit in melee without swinging at them, so no 1 turn slaughterhouse where a unit can murder several units in a row. Also looks like a good justification for the overwatch buffs. Also really like the "Power Fists/Hammers are -1 to hit" change, fluffy and makes them much more worthwhile on characters (you basically never picked them on independent characters unless you could get a 3+ or better inv.-save to tank hits.

**Desubot**

Cothonian wrote:
Just read through the recently released section on vehicles.

They weren't too specific, but it sounds like vehicles will treat melee combat the same as other non-vehicle units. The only thing that worries me about this, is that if they do handle melee in the same way infantry do, that means that in order to break from combat they would have to give up a turn of shooting.

If that is the case, that could be quite rough for my Russes, one tank in a squadron gets charged and the entire three-tank unit has to give up shooting to back up.

Of course I usually bubblewrap my tanks with infantry to prevent them from getting punched, but still.

I'm kind of hoping that vehicles can withdraw from melee without penalty to sum this up.

Hopefully lumbering behemoth will do some fun things.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Two things from today's info jump out.

Vehicles being able to assault is a decent counter to Overwatch. Yes you risk damage to the tank, but better that than your infantry.

And transports can carry more than one unit.

5 Incubui, 5 Wyches, Raider. Nasty little parcel right there.

**Lobokai**

To tell the truth, I hope they do remove small marines in 9E+. Then I can field all my current marines as "counts as" Primarus

**Leth**

I am guessing that the Vehicle Keyword will have something special in regards to combats. For some reason I remember reading that vehicles can leave combat without penalty at some point, will try and see if I can find it.