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2017/05/18 16:57:24
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
Crimson wrote: OK. Fluff-wise existing Marines can be 'upgraded' into Primaris. This is good.
Thank God. So special characters will become "Primaris", and in 3-4 years all the Space Marines (In the fluff) will be probably Primaris, and if all the Space Marines are Primaris Marines, they are just Space Marines again, because you have not "Secondaris" old Marines to compare, so the status quo becomes again the same as before, just with Marines being more powerfull in the fluff, bigger in models, and more powerfull in rules.
(Or at least thats my theory)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 16:58:03
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/18 16:57:27
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
The rules for vehicles are so good and so bad at the same time! I love the simplification. The vehicle rules for 7th and before were so messy, but fluffy. It makes sense on a charge, but the idea of a vehicle, especially a tracked one, scooting around bumping into soldiers who are "stuck" in CC clubbing it with lasgun buts is ridiculous.
If infantry can at least move away at no penalty in the move phase I can wrap my head around it. Like a lot of the AoS rules, it's fine mechanically but just doesn't make sense narratively. What a 180 from what we have now.
2017/05/18 17:02:04
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
Crimson wrote: OK. Fluff-wise existing Marines can be 'upgraded' into Primaris. This is good.
How is that good?
I thought people were worried about the existing space marines being phase out. Doesn't this pretty much guarantee that? Surely if a space marine can just be upgraded to a primaris marine, there would be no reason for the chapter masters and named characters to go through that procedure. I was thinking the existence of the named characters would be one of the few things preventing the elimination of "normal" marines.
EXACTLY! Space Marines will be completely phased out in 2-3 years. Called it! This is the mechanism for which they can justify not selling Space Marine kits anymore.
2108
SM player: Hey where did all my kits go?
GW: Oh all marines have been converted into Primaris Marines now! Isn't that awesome? Here you can have the privelege of buying 5 of these AMAZING models for only $60!
If it's a hundred years then that price bump is reasonable (almost). You'd get a 300-400% increase in regular prizes between now and then due to inflation.
2017/05/18 17:04:56
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
Crimson wrote: OK. Fluff-wise existing Marines can be 'upgraded' into Primaris. This is good.
How is that good?
I thought people were worried about the existing space marines being phase out. Doesn't this pretty much guarantee that? Surely if a space marine can just be upgraded to a primaris marine, there would be no reason for the chapter masters and named characters to go through that procedure. I was thinking the existence of the named characters would be one of the few things preventing the elimination of "normal" marines.
EXACTLY! Space Marines will be completely phased out in 2-3 years. Called it! This is the mechanism for which they can justify not selling Space Marine kits anymore.
2108
SM player: Hey where did all my kits go?
GW: Oh all marines have been converted into Primaris Marines now! Isn't that awesome? Here you can have the privelege of buying 5 of these AMAZING models for only $60!
If that happens in the year 2108, then I think Marines will be safe for a while
What I have
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A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/05/18 17:06:41
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
dosiere wrote: The rules for vehicles are so good and so bad at the same time! I love the simplification. The vehicle rules for 7th and before were so messy, but fluffy. It makes sense on a charge, but the idea of a vehicle, especially a tracked one, scooting around bumping into soldiers who are "stuck" in CC clubbing it with lasgun buts is ridiculous.
If infantry can at least move away at no penalty in the move phase I can wrap my head around it. Like a lot of the AoS rules, it's fine mechanically but just doesn't make sense narratively. What a 180 from what we have now.
I like it, makes sense. I never liked how vehicles weren't a threat to infantry that are swarming it. Someone could easily slip under a track, get their arm pinched in a turret run, etc.
They're not necessarily clubbing the tank (or rather stabbing it with their bayonets, this is the Guard after all), but instead sticking their guns in weak spots, stuffing grenades into gun barrels etc.
2017/05/18 17:09:34
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
"Any Primarchs returning?"
"Well... there might be a cowled one on the way soon..."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 17:10:47
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2017/05/18 17:10:44
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
> Primaris Marines can be made from preexisting Marines. > Blood Angel Primaris Marines are still affected by Red Thirst (and potentially Black Rage). > Mk IX Armour is a mystery. What happened to it? They aren't telling us (yet). > Guilliman *might* make some changes to the Codex Astartes. > Primaris Marines are more resilient to Chaos, but can potentially be corrupted by chaos still . > More Primarchs will return (a cowled one, so Mortarion most likely).
> Consolidating into Combat. > Power Fists and the like are -1 To Hit. > You can either pick psychic powers from the chart or roll (like in Age of Sigmar). > Perils of the Warp cuases Mortal Wounds. > There's no amry specific Detachments - only army specific stratagems. Basic Detachments apparently cover everything already. > Imperial Fist stratagem can make them better at shooting. White Scars can us a stratgem to Hit & Run. > Factions can also use their Command Points before deployment to change how their army is constructed (?). > Unqiue Strategems are based on main Keywords in your Detachments. > Tactical Reserves is NOT supersceded by any army rules. > Characters can still travel in tranports with other units. > Transports can carry multiple units. > What can be transported is based on Keywords (like Infantry). > How to keep characters safe: Almost all Command Squads have rules that allows them to intercept wounds from characters. > Drop Pods: they and the units they contain must be over 9" away from enemies when deployed. > Grav hasn't neccerssarily be toned down, but it should still be balanced. > Invulnerable saves work basically the same as they do now. > Many armies have abilities that allows them to save wounds after Armour or Invulnerable saves (Dark Eldar get Power From Pain, Disgustingly Resilient for Nurgle Daemons). These saves occur after damage, so if an attack causes 5 damage you need to make 5 seperate secondary saves. > Defender decides casualties - no longer directional. > Primaris Marines and normal Marines tend to have different functions (Tacticals vs Intercessor are used as an example). > Mix between totally new psychic powers and adaptation of pre-existing and classic powers (though they may function differently). > Terminators are going to feel like Terminators. > Many close combat units are now faster and deadlier than before, apparently.
> They will collect feedback through Facebook and eventually through the Warhammer Community site where everyone can vote on it. Also feedback through events and Twitch.tv. > GW will still be involved with the tournament scene, especially with major tournaments. Apparently they're going to be involved more. > They will continue to playtest the game post-release, both for Matched and Narrative standpoints.
> Pete Foley does, indeed, thin his paints.
I don't think I missed anything.
EDIT: Fixing spelling errors.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/05/18 17:34:56
2017/05/18 17:13:55
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
Well, to be fair, in those other articles, I don't think they mentioned those units in the preview (I didn't read the Chaos Daemons one, so maybe they did talk about them there). However, for Tau, they highlighted one of the more iconic units in their dex to showcase that rule. Possibly because Tau suits -don't like- being in CC. Whereas things like Scourges, DP's, Tzeentchian Daemon stuff, aren't nearly as fethed when that happens to them.
I can see both sides to the argument here, but I'm actually leaning a bit more to the side of the keyword "Fly" handing XV-8's this ability, which will very likely affect drones as well, since we can see they also have that keyword.
I'm not. I just don't see "Fly" allowing you to act normally after Falling Back. Falling Back has a penalty, and I can't imagine all the things that are currently Jump/Jet Pack Infantry, Jetbikes, Skimmers, or Flying Monstrous Creatures/Flyers getting a free out from Combat to keep shooting or to set up new charges that easily.
Not 'seeing it' =/= not being in the game. And for all we know, things that currently are classified as Fliers - FMC's, may have a different bespoke rule that governs that particular movement.
But, you could easily be correct, and that there's another interaction we just haven't seen yet that allows crisis suits that special ability. But based on the wording of the article, and the fact that they specifically mentioned the bespoke rule 'Fly' as what lets them do that, it's easy to make the correlation between that rule, and the ability.
Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.
2017/05/18 17:16:08
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
Lasguns may be out of luck vs a landraider, but a 30 dude platoon will sweep an annihilation barge off the field in one turn with FRFSRF even at long range. Hard to see how light vehicles prosper in this environment. Vehicles assaulting - not sure. It appears that vehicles will have NO SPECIAL RULES WHAT SO EVER. So that means they can be easily trapped by infantry, for example. Looks like Tianamon square, all day, every day.
2017/05/18 17:16:54
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
It'd be great if we could get more details regarding combat consolidation. Are we sure that isn't just referring to the pile in rules we already knew about?
2017/05/18 17:17:20
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
> Primaris Marines can be made from preexisting Marines.
> Blood Angel Primaris Marines are still affected by Red Thirst (and potentially Black Rage).
> Mk IX Armour is a mystery. What happened to it? They aren't telling us (yet).
> Guilliman *might* make some changes to the Codex Astartes.
> Primaris Marines are more resilient to Chaos, but can potentially be corrupted by chaos still .
> More Primarchs will return (a cowled one, so Mortarion most likely).
> Consolidating into Combat.
> Power Fists and the like are -1 To Hit.
> You can either pick psychic powers from the chart or roll (like in Age of Sigmar).
> Perils of the Warp cuases Mortal Wounds.
> There's no amry specific Detachments - only army specific stratagems. Basic Detachments apparently cover everything already.
> Imperial Fist stratagem can make them better at shooting. White Scars can us a stratgem to Hit & Run.
> Factions can also use their Command Points before deployment to change how their army is constructed (?).
> Unqiue Strategems are based on main Keywords in your Detachments.
> Tactical Reserves is NOT supersceded by any army rules.
> Characters can still travel in tranports with other units.
> Transports can carry multiple units.
> What can be transported is based on Keywords (like Infantry).
> How to keep characters safe: Almost all Command Squads have rules that allows them to intercept wounds from characters.
> Drop Pods: they and the units they contain must be over 9" away from enemies when deployed.
> Grav hasn't neccerssarily be toned down, but it should still be balanced.
> Invulnerable saves work basically the same as they do now.
> Many armies have abilities that allows them to save wounds after Armour or Invulnerable saves (Dark Eldar get Power From Pain, Disgustingly Resilient for Nurgle Daemons). These saves occur after damage, so if an attack causes 5 damage you need to make 5 seperate secondary saves.
> Defender decides casualties - no longer directional.
> Primaris Marines and normal Marines tend to have different functions (Tacticals vs Intercessor are used as an example).
> Mix between totally new psychic powers and adaptation of pre-existing and classic powers (though they may function differently).
> Terminators are going to feel like Terminators.
> They will collect feedback through Facebook and eventually through the Warhammer Community site where everyone can vote on it. Also feedback through events and Twitch.tv.
> GW will still be involved with the tournament scene, especially with major tournaments. Apparently they're going to be involved more.
> They will continue to playtest the game post-release, both for Matched and Narrative standpoints.
> Pete Foley does, indeed, thin his paints.
I don't think I missed anything.
EDIT: Fixing spelling errors.
Nice!
PM Rippy a copy so it'll go into the OP!
2017/05/18 17:18:10
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
That actually addresses my concern about Primaris marines: If it's a gene therapy booster shot then it ceases to devalue regular marines because they can just take their shots.
Also on a related note, that kinda means that chaos primaris will be about the moment a chapter with the tech defects then gets a visit from Bile.
2017/05/18 17:21:50
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
kestral wrote: Lasguns may be out of luck vs a landraider, but a 30 dude platoon will sweep an annihilation barge off the field in one turn with FRFSRF even at long range. Hard to see how light vehicles prosper in this environment. Vehicles assaulting - not sure. It appears that vehicles will have NO SPECIAL RULES WHAT SO EVER. So that means they can be easily trapped by infantry, for example. Looks like Tianamon square, all day, every day.
If you've dumped an order into a 30 man blob squad to simply remove ONE Anni-Barge, then the Necron player is probably still ahead in that exchange...
Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.
2017/05/18 17:25:04
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
kestral wrote: Lasguns may be out of luck vs a landraider, but a 30 dude platoon will sweep an annihilation barge off the field in one turn with FRFSRF even at long range. Hard to see how light vehicles prosper in this environment. Vehicles assaulting - not sure. It appears that vehicles will have NO SPECIAL RULES WHAT SO EVER. So that means they can be easily trapped by infantry, for example. Looks like Tianamon square, all day, every day.
If you've dumped an order into a 30 man blob squad to simply remove ONE Anni-Barge, then the Necron player is probably still ahead in that exchange...
I love the sudden, insane, fear of the humble guardsman that hasn't stopped since 8th news dropped. So much over reacting.
changemod wrote: That actually addresses my concern about Primaris marines: If it's a gene therapy booster shot then it ceases to devalue regular marines because they can just take their shots.
Also on a related note, that kinda means that chaos primaris will be about the moment a chapter with the tech defects then gets a visit from Bile.
You know what? The "shot" was really bothering me until you phrased it that way!
Thanks for turning my perspective around
The 1st Legion
Interrogator-Chaplain Beremiah's Strike Force
The Tearers of Flesh
2017/05/18 17:26:40
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
Crimson wrote: OK. Fluff-wise existing Marines can be 'upgraded' into Primaris. This is good.
How is that good?
I thought people were worried about the existing space marines being phase out. Doesn't this pretty much guarantee that? Surely if a space marine can just be upgraded to a primaris marine, there would be no reason for the chapter masters and named characters to go through that procedure. I was thinking the existence of the named characters would be one of the few things preventing the elimination of "normal" marines.
At this point, I think it is better to have regular marine being phased out than to have two completely distinct kinds of marines
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
2017/05/18 17:27:02
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 16 May 2017: Deep striking and reserves/DE focus(All info in OP)
> Primaris Marines can be made from preexisting Marines.
> Blood Angel Primaris Marines are still affected by Red Thirst (and potentially Black Rage).
> Mk IX Armour is a mystery. What happened to it? They aren't telling us (yet).
> Guilliman *might* make some changes to the Codex Astartes.
> Primaris Marines are more resilient to Chaos, but can potentially be corrupted by chaos still .
> More Primarchs will return (a cowled one, so Mortarion most likely).
> Consolidating into Combat.
> Power Fists and the like are -1 To Hit.
> You can either pick psychic powers from the chart or roll (like in Age of Sigmar).
> Perils of the Warp cuases Mortal Wounds.
> There's no amry specific Detachments - only army specific stratagems. Basic Detachments apparently cover everything already.
> Imperial Fist stratagem can make them better at shooting. White Scars can us a stratgem to Hit & Run.
> Factions can also use their Command Points before deployment to change how their army is constructed (?).
> Unqiue Strategems are based on main Keywords in your Detachments.
> Tactical Reserves is NOT supersceded by any army rules.
> Characters can still travel in tranports with other units.
> Transports can carry multiple units.
> What can be transported is based on Keywords (like Infantry).
> How to keep characters safe: Almost all Command Squads have rules that allows them to intercept wounds from characters.
> Drop Pods: they and the units they contain must be over 9" away from enemies when deployed.
> Grav hasn't neccerssarily be toned down, but it should still be balanced.
> Invulnerable saves work basically the same as they do now.
> Many armies have abilities that allows them to save wounds after Armour or Invulnerable saves (Dark Eldar get Power From Pain, Disgustingly Resilient for Nurgle Daemons). These saves occur after damage, so if an attack causes 5 damage you need to make 5 seperate secondary saves.
> Defender decides casualties - no longer directional.
> Primaris Marines and normal Marines tend to have different functions (Tacticals vs Intercessor are used as an example).
> Mix between totally new psychic powers and adaptation of pre-existing and classic powers (though they may function differently).
> Terminators are going to feel like Terminators.
> They will collect feedback through Facebook and eventually through the Warhammer Community site where everyone can vote on it. Also feedback through events and Twitch.tv.
> GW will still be involved with the tournament scene, especially with major tournaments. Apparently they're going to be involved more.
> They will continue to playtest the game post-release, both for Matched and Narrative standpoints.
> Pete Foley does, indeed, thin his paints.
I don't think I missed anything.
EDIT: Fixing spelling errors.
You missed vehicles locked in close combat can't shoot. Melee armies are faster and do more damage.
–The Harrower Artist, Game Designer, and Wargame Veteran
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The 1st Legion
Interrogator-Chaplain Beremiah's Strike Force
