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Made in us
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-faction-focus-sisters-of-battlegw-homepage-post-1/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Still not in plastic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 17:13:08


 
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Ork Warboss





Acts of Faith nerfed to near uselessness. SOB are Dead on Arrival.

This is assuming that they use the same type of limits that the Psychic Powers they are aping have. If you're able to just burn as many Faith Points as you want until you pass then that's fine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 17:17:44


Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. Zoom in to read them. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy; "minimum" ranges don't work; Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll; the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit; the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously; Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields; Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12"; Spore Mines have an infinite range; Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad; T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only); the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle; you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it; if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit; a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight; Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything; Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers; Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice; "Airborne" units can't be charged by non-FLY units, but can be Heroically Intervened into, piled into, or consolidated into just fine by non-FLY units; Wave Serpents cannot be legally charged at by any model with a standard base; Slab Shields, along with the 'Take Cover!' stratagem no longer have any effect; and vehicles that are "slain" by a special effect do not trigger the "Explodes" ability.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Eastern Ontario

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Acts of Faith nerfed to near uselessness. SOB are Dead on Arrival.


You could always play with the rules when CA comes out, get some actual experience in with the changes and provide GW with feedback so that they use this Beta period for its intended purpose and adjust rules where they need adjusting for the actual codex when it drops next year?

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







Lol, I'm actually salty about the blessed bolts strat. Only 1 CP huh?

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Kawauso wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Acts of Faith nerfed to near uselessness. SOB are Dead on Arrival.


You could always play with the rules when CA comes out, get some actual experience in with the changes and provide GW with feedback so that they use this Beta period for its intended purpose and adjust rules where they need adjusting for the actual codex when it drops next year?


But that would make these BETA rules and we're not paying GW for BETA ru... oh.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Holy hell. I need to buy more storm bolter sisters. That strategem looks great. Especially if Acts of Faith have been moved to occurring in-phase; that's a lot of hurt.

Also, is the AoF roll a D6 or 2d6? If it's a D6, it's basically a not-happening anymore, and a pretty low probability of success for what the IG does automatically. Especially if the Faith Points are generated as a per-game pool, as opposed to a per-turn pool.

I look forward to playing, and seeing how things shake out. I suspect that Ebon Chalice or Our Martyred Lady will be best; Martyred Lady because of Saint Celestine, and Ebon Chalice because +1 to AoF seems fairly essential. That said Valorous Heart does not look great; and Bloody Rose is strictly ok.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/06 17:40:59


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




 BaconCatBug wrote:
Acts of Faith nerfed to near uselessness. SOB are Dead on Arrival.

This is assuming that they use the same type of limits that the Psychic Powers they are aping have. If you're able to just burn as many Faith Points as you want until you pass then that's fine.


Not even psychic powers. It looks like it's a 1d6 roll. So they actually are useless. Even if you CAN spend multiple points, you'll burn your entire store on a single round of extra combat.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Holy hell. I need to buy more storm bolter sisters. That strategem looks great. Especially if Acts of Faith have been moved to occurring in-phase; that's a lot of hurt.

Also, is the AoF roll a D6 or 2d6? If it's a D6, it's basically a not-happening anymore, and a pretty low probability of success for what the IG does automatically.

I look forward to playing, and seeing how things shake out.


It doesn't actually say 1d6 or 2d6, but I am betting 1, unfortunately. That's the bugbear - the number of Faith Points you get scales with army size, now, but those faith points don't actually "do" anything.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







But it looks like you can burn everything in one turn for a huge alpha. Might even be worth using a CP to reroll the AoF turn 1 then burn the 3CP strat to spread that one buff to the entire army, take Ebon Chalice to increase your odds.

The issue with this of course is range, so probably T2 is the earliest you get in range for your firepower to go off.

Still worth.

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Holy hell. I need to buy more storm bolter sisters. That strategem looks great. Especially if Acts of Faith have been moved to occurring in-phase; that's a lot of hurt.

Also, is the AoF roll a D6 or 2d6? If it's a D6, it's basically a not-happening anymore, and a pretty low probability of success for what the IG does automatically.

I look forward to playing, and seeing how things shake out.


It doesn't actually say 1d6 or 2d6, but I am betting 1, unfortunately. That's the bugbear - the number of Faith Points you get scales with army size, now, but those faith points don't actually "do" anything.


If you get 1 faith point for every 10 infantry EVERY turn AND can spend multiple points trying to get the same AoF, the system might work with 1d6. With anything less than that you'll likely see a greater improvement in the army's performance by simply not bothering to remember any of the AoF rules and focusing on getting the rest of the armies rules memorized more completely.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Yes, if the Faith Points regenerate per turn that'll be gold. I didn't think of that.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Gainesville, VA

So Acts of Faith are sort of like IG orders, but they can fail to work at all? Sounds terrible.

Maybe giving each ability a Faith Point cost and having them work every time would be better. But that's stepping on CP territory a bit much I suppose. Or have a character lead an act of faith, and one nearby unit gains the benefit per point spent; like "IG Orders with benefits".
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Holy hell. I need to buy more storm bolter sisters. That strategem looks great. Especially if Acts of Faith have been moved to occurring in-phase; that's a lot of hurt.

Also, is the AoF roll a D6 or 2d6? If it's a D6, it's basically a not-happening anymore, and a pretty low probability of success for what the IG does automatically.

I look forward to playing, and seeing how things shake out.


It doesn't actually say 1d6 or 2d6, but I am betting 1, unfortunately. That's the bugbear - the number of Faith Points you get scales with army size, now, but those faith points don't actually "do" anything.


Yeah. The list to be is probably going to be massed Ebon Chalice infantry with Imagifiers [I'd put thrones on the Simulacrum Imperalis or Laud Hailers buffing the roll], since power armor horde isn't actually bad; and double-moving double-shooting power armor horde is outright scary sounding. Basically plod a big giant block of Battle Sisters up the board and gun down anything within 12". It doesn't sound terrible, but it sound way less fun than Mech Dominions.

If we're going back to faith points as a finite game resource; I'd bet there's a good chance that there's a way to generate faith on the destruction of units. An unhealthy obsession with martyrdom is a hallmark of our army's theme.



Also, given that the Valorous Heart's theme is stoic feel-no-pain, Bloody Rose is being stabby, and Ebon Chalice is being the most faithful, I'm cautiously hopeful that my order's trait is like Tallarn, since St. Silvana was noted for being the first to take to crusading.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/12/06 17:59:54


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Widowmaker






Chicago

It depends on what the Ordo Dialogous sister and Simulacrum Imperialis do. If each of those buff the roll with a +1 and/or a reroll, then you can make Acts of Faith work, even if the die roll is only a D6.

The new system might very well be terrible. But I'll wait to see the whole thing before I damn it.

DS:80S++G+++M----B--I--Pwmhd03/f#+D++A++++/sWD250R++T(S)DM+++

Elvis needs boats. 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




 Quickjager wrote:
But it looks like you can burn everything in one turn for a huge alpha. Might even be worth using a CP to reroll the AoF turn 1 then burn the 3CP strat to spread that one buff to the entire army, take Ebon Chalice to increase your odds.

The issue with this of course is range, so probably T2 is the earliest you get in range for your firepower to go off.

Still worth.


Not really, every weapon that you'd want to use an AoF on has a 12" range and if fighting again is a 5+ then shooting again is almost certainly 6. You'd have to use every single AoF point to reliably get the AoF off ASSUMING a reroll, you'd have to have a character within 6" of multiple squads who are themselves within 12" of multiple targets. That's a tall ask considering the good SoB shooting unit has scout and SoB character outside of Celestine only move 6.

It's not...necessarily the worst rule in the game, but it's a lot worse than the old system was.

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Made in us
Phanobi





East Bay, Ca, US

That storm bolter stratagem is absolute cheese.

Will be providing feedback that it is far too powerful and absolutely must be toned down. Holy crap.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




 Kcalehc wrote:
So Acts of Faith are sort of like IG orders, but they can fail to work at all? Sounds terrible.

Maybe giving each ability a Faith Point cost and having them work every time would be better. But that's stepping on CP territory a bit much I suppose. Or have a character lead an act of faith, and one nearby unit gains the benefit per point spent; like "IG Orders with benefits".


Or maybe the system we already had.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Marmatag wrote:
That storm bolter stratagem is absolute cheese.

Will be providing feedback that it is far too powerful and absolutely must be toned down. Holy crap.


Not when you realize the rest of the army is non-functional around it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Holy hell. I need to buy more storm bolter sisters. That strategem looks great. Especially if Acts of Faith have been moved to occurring in-phase; that's a lot of hurt.

Also, is the AoF roll a D6 or 2d6? If it's a D6, it's basically a not-happening anymore, and a pretty low probability of success for what the IG does automatically.

I look forward to playing, and seeing how things shake out.


It doesn't actually say 1d6 or 2d6, but I am betting 1, unfortunately. That's the bugbear - the number of Faith Points you get scales with army size, now, but those faith points don't actually "do" anything.


Yeah. The list to be is probably going to be massed Ebon Chalice infantry with Imagifiers [I'd put thrones on the Simulacrum Imperalis or Laud Hailers buffing the roll], since power armor horde isn't actually bad; and double-moving double-shooting power armor horde is outright scary sounding.


If we're going back to faith points as a finite game resource; I'd bet there's a good chance that there's a way to generate faith on the destruction of units. An unhealthy obsession with martyrdom is a hallmark of our army's theme.


My greatest fear is that SoB become an infantry horde army. Infantry heavy armies are the worst, most boring armies in the game.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/06 17:57:12


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Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Quickjager wrote:
Lol, I'm actually salty about the blessed bolts strat. Only 1 CP huh?

LOL why cause it's way better than the GK strat that costs 2? LOL.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle




Tampa, FL

That stratagem looks ridiculous OP when you remember that there exist CP batteries.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







ERJAK wrote:
 Quickjager wrote:
But it looks like you can burn everything in one turn for a huge alpha. Might even be worth using a CP to reroll the AoF turn 1 then burn the 3CP strat to spread that one buff to the entire army, take Ebon Chalice to increase your odds.

The issue with this of course is range, so probably T2 is the earliest you get in range for your firepower to go off.

Still worth.


Not really, every weapon that you'd want to use an AoF on has a 12" range and if fighting again is a 5+ then shooting again is almost certainly 6. You'd have to use every single AoF point to reliably get the AoF off ASSUMING a reroll, you'd have to have a character within 6" of multiple squads who are themselves within 12" of multiple targets. That's a tall ask considering the good SoB shooting unit has scout and SoB character outside of Celestine only move 6.

It's not...necessarily the worst rule in the game, but it's a lot worse than the old system was.


If we're making assumptions like that then, the army obviously has access to rerolls of AoF dice without a CP; I'd go so far as to say Celestine probably autopasses her Aof most likely. Who is likely an auto include in a SoB army. Besides we already had this discussion of how easy it is to daisychain months ago in regards to IG officers. I agree the optimal range is 12 inch though.

 Xenomancers wrote:
 Quickjager wrote:
Lol, I'm actually salty about the blessed bolts strat. Only 1 CP huh?

LOL why cause it's way better than the GK strat that costs 2? LOL.


Stop Xeno, it hurts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 18:01:21


 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Ironically my Sororitas is a foot infantry horde. But still, the Acts of Faith thing is a bummer.

I'm worried that people who don't play Sororitas will call for the single stratagem to be nerfed, and drown out the people who do play the army who would buff other areas.

IOW I don't want Sororitas to become a one-trick pony around the single good strat we've seen so far, and then have that get nerfed for the 'dex with no further buffs. We'll see.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Also, why are we comparing Blessed Bolts to Psybolts?

We know for a fact that Psybolts is really really bad. Shouldn't that mean we want new but similarly themed stratagems to not be Psybolts?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 18:02:02


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Umm...in case anyone didn't notice. For 3 CP you can activate shoot twice act of faith (in a 6 inch aura) So basically your whole army can try to shoot twice. Plus if it's a squad with 10 storm bolters and using the 1 CP stratagem to do 2 flat with AP -2. Just kiss your army goodbye. These leaks are incredibly powerful.

Question. Does the Ebon Chalice order get +1 to their devotion roll? They called it +1 to Test of faith.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block





Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Penitent Engines look baller. Step aside, Furioso.

"The sword can be anklebiter as well as throatcleaver. We need no new weapons to defeat the sons of the hydra, merely new doctrines."
-Joriah Stendall, second Chapter Master of the Red Grail Crusaders 
   
Made in us
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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Also, why are we comparing Blessed Bolts to Psybolts?

We know for a fact that Psybolts is really really bad. Shouldn't that mean we want new but similarly themed stratagems to not be Psybolts?

-2 ap +1 damage for 1 point / compared to +1 Str -1 AP for 2 points. They should just hotfix psybolt ammo to be 1 CP if they are going to make a strat like this AND the blessed bolts will still be better.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Phanobi





East Bay, Ca, US

Assuming sisters can still shoot out of phase, it'll be fun to watch someone pay 3CP and shoot with their entire army before the round starts. That's not broken at all.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Xenomancers wrote:
Umm...in case anyone didn't notice. For 3 CP you can activate shoot twice act of faith (in a 6 inch aura) So basically your whole army can try to shoot twice. Plus if it's a squad with 10 storm bolters and using the 1 CP stratagem to do 2 flat with AP -2. Just kiss your army goodbye. These leaks are incredibly powerful.

Question. Does the Ebon Chalice order get +1 to their devotion roll? They called it +1 to Test of faith.


1) To use the 3CP stratagem you have to get the Act of Faith off on the Character first, so still that 5+ or 6+ or whatever.

2) 10 Storm Bolter squads are literally impossible. Dominions can have exactly 5, and that's the most we'll have in a squad. Meanwhile, GK can have 10. If we could have 10 Storm Bolter squads, I'd agree with you.

EDIT:
Additionally, there's no reason to suspect a shoot twice AOF still exists aside from speculation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 18:09:47


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 Quickjager wrote:


If we're making assumptions like that then, the army obviously has access to rerolls of AoF dice without a CP; I'd go so far as to say Celestine probably autopasses her Aof most likely. Who is likely an auto include in a SoB army. Besides we already had this discussion of how easy it is to daisychain months ago in regards to IG officers. I agree the optimal range is 12 inch though.

Stop Xeno, it hurts.


The strategem requires the unit to pass a roll, so if St. C just does and doesn't roll, she can't prok it for the stratagem. That's besides the point, though, because Celestine is Our Martyred Lady not Ebon Chalice, and I'd put good money of there being means to buff that roll; almost certainly Simulacrum Imperalii and potentially Laud Hailers. I am almost certain that we're going to see an Act of Faith centric Ebon Chalice footslogging horde that walks up the board and murderizes everything that it can get within 12" of on turn 2 or 3. Power armor is actually pretty viable if you have enough of it on the board; and we have superior special weapon density to Space Marines.


That said, traditional sisters mechanized infantry will probably either disappear, like most other mechanized infantry lists, or will basically work as if Acts of Faith did not exist. This set up is really bad for Seraphim, basically ignored by Dominions, and really good for massed infantry.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 18:10:04


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Wayniac wrote:
That stratagem looks ridiculous OP when you remember that there exist CP batteries.


SoB ARE a CP battery. Our battalion is only like 45pts more expensive than the loyal 32 and is A LOT more useful. As much as I don't like the AoF changes, the Strats are great.

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Made in us
Phanobi





East Bay, Ca, US

 Xenomancers wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Also, why are we comparing Blessed Bolts to Psybolts?

We know for a fact that Psybolts is really really bad. Shouldn't that mean we want new but similarly themed stratagems to not be Psybolts?

-2 ap +1 damage for 1 point / compared to +1 Str -1 AP for 2 points. They should just hotfix psybolt ammo to be 1 CP if they are going to make a strat like this AND the blessed bolts will still be better.


Blessed bolts is just absurd.

It makes sense that a 60 point unit should be able to cleave through a terminator squad?

This is more efficient than a Disintigrator Ravager against Terminators.
This is more efficient than a Disintigrator Ravager against Primaris.

For less than half the points.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
 
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