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I really love the Hive Crone/Harpy model but am not sure I've ever played with one outside of pure narrative games :(

Ork Stompa too - such a terrific kit so TYVFM for that GW.

Monolith - totally iconic. I have used this a few times in games but not many.

Logan Grimnar - Despite the perennial hate I really like the model. Not sure I've ever picked him

Storm guardians. I love them, but I just can't bring myself to actually field them. They're just such a terribly designed unit, even at 6ppm. The same goes for falcons imo.

Every Phoenix Lord that's not Asurmen. I love their fluff but the models are generally awful. Maugan looks super static, Faugan is weird and old looking, Baharroth I actually like, Karandras has ridiculous mandiblasters and Jain Zar haunts my dreams.

My renegades and heretics.

Sagittarum Guard. Looks awesome and I aim to use mine whenever I can, just not good enough for their points however.

Death Company as its priority target.
Most of the Eldar units as I play spam lists with only a few unit types.

Tactical marines

Another vote for Storm Guardians. Lot's of conversion possibilities, and for me it's like they are Howling Banshees or scorpions in training...I use them on the table with my group, but they really stink even at 6ppm.

Space Marine Land Speeders. The model screams the future, and I think it does a great job of combining "it could work but is WAY above technology we have". Sadly, an absolute waste of points in the game right now. Labd soeeder storm same. Love the modeling oppurtunities of scouts hanging off and such. Way too expensive.
Any Imperial Guard vehicle "designed" to shoot aircraft down (the autocannon type). Love the concept and model generally, the game rules on flyers being basically tanks that fly means none of these can actually do any real damage to a flyer. (Flyers should be fast but fragile, in this game they are absolutely not and that is lame (and I know, "sell those models" ruleset))

When you stop trying to min/max and roll with the waac group, all of these units are actually fun to use. I've run SG, Tacticals and Land Speeders in 8th, with great success.

But in keeping with the theme, when it comes to playing more competitively, I wish terminators were actual matches to their fulff. Neigh unkillable death machines marching slowly into the bowels of the enemy stronghold.

 Togusa wrote:
When you stop trying to min/max and roll with the waac group, all of these units are actually fun to use. I've run SG, Tacticals and Land Speeders in 8th, with great success.

But in keeping with the theme, when it comes to playing more competitively, I wish terminators were actual matches to their fulff. Neigh unkillable death machines marching slowly into the bowels of the enemy stronghold.

I dare you to field a renegades and heretics army even in a casual environment.

Storm ravens, Terminators, Assault Marines, Tactical Marines.

Effectively my entire blood angels army I built in 5th edition. Completely useless now. :(

Tau Crisis Suits
Kroot
The Tidewall Fortifications. 8th edition really botched the rules there.

Bloodcrushers. I want to use them...but it’s better to just take more Bloodletters. And Soul Grinders. Awesome models, there are just better options. Same with Be’Lakor; awesome, works great, I just don’t have room for him, especially with how difficult he is to pop into a list (based on detachment rules).

Land speeders, attack bikes, whirlwinds and vindicator tanks. I mean how can they fail so miserably with writing rules for these? None of them can perform, even in the fields they are supposed to excell!

edwardmyst wrote:
Another vote for Storm Guardians. Lot's of conversion possibilities, and for me it's like they are Howling Banshees or scorpions in training...I use them on the table with my group, but they really stink even at 6ppm.

Space Marine Land Speeders. The model screams the future, and I think it does a great job of combining "it could work but is WAY above technology we have". Sadly, an absolute waste of points in the game right now. Labd soeeder storm same. Love the modeling oppurtunities of scouts hanging off and such. Way too expensive.
Any Imperial Guard vehicle "designed" to shoot aircraft down (the autocannon type). Love the concept and model generally, the game rules on flyers being basically tanks that fly means none of these can actually do any real damage to a flyer. (Flyers should be fast but fragile, in this game they are absolutely not and that is lame (and I know, "sell those models" ruleset))

This makes me sad because Marine aircraft are notably flimsier than Marine tanks, and Marine tanks are pretty flimsy to begin with.

I can't point to a unit that I like but never use because I'm goofy about trying to make units I like work even when I know they're terrible, but I wish the Storm Raven and Storm Talon gunships and both types of Centurions had better rules. I almost never play my Terminators either.

The Newman wrote:

edwardmyst wrote:
Another vote for Storm Guardians. Lot's of conversion possibilities, and for me it's like they are Howling Banshees or scorpions in training...I use them on the table with my group, but they really stink even at 6ppm.

Space Marine Land Speeders. The model screams the future, and I think it does a great job of combining "it could work but is WAY above technology we have". Sadly, an absolute waste of points in the game right now. Labd soeeder storm same. Love the modeling oppurtunities of scouts hanging off and such. Way too expensive.
Any Imperial Guard vehicle "designed" to shoot aircraft down (the autocannon type). Love the concept and model generally, the game rules on flyers being basically tanks that fly means none of these can actually do any real damage to a flyer. (Flyers should be fast but fragile, in this game they are absolutely not and that is lame (and I know, "sell those models" ruleset))

This makes me sad because Marine aircraft are notably flimsier than Marine tanks, and Marine tanks are pretty flimsy to begin with.

I can't point to a unit that I like but never use because I'm goofy about trying to make units I like work even when I know they're terrible, but I wish the Storm Raven and Storm Talon gunships and both types of Centurions had better rules. I almost never play my Terminators either.

You could have a hellturkey.
Whilest profile wise not beeing flimsy at all, the pricepoint and lack of -1 to hit against it makes it into a rather rare sight nowadays. (altough it is justifyingly repenting for the sins of it's introduction)

Plague Hulk and Blight Drones. I use them every now and then but always realize Bloat Drone and Plagueburst Crawler do the same or more for 80 points less, which is a shame as the models are awesome.

Gitdakka wrote:
Land speeders, attack bikes, whirlwinds and vindicator tanks. I mean how can they fail so miserably with writing rules for these? None of them can perform, even in the fields they are supposed to excell!

I'll second the Land speeders and Attack bikes. Both iconic and somewhat unique units among Space Marines. I'd love to see more on the table.

-

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
When you stop trying to min/max and roll with the waac group, all of these units are actually fun to use. I've run SG, Tacticals and Land Speeders in 8th, with great success.

But in keeping with the theme, when it comes to playing more competitively, I wish terminators were actual matches to their fulff. Neigh unkillable death machines marching slowly into the bowels of the enemy stronghold.

I dare you to field a renegades and heretics army even in a casual environment.

I'll do it. What do I need to try it out? Can I proxy my guard forces?

 Togusa wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
When you stop trying to min/max and roll with the waac group, all of these units are actually fun to use. I've run SG, Tacticals and Land Speeders in 8th, with great success.

But in keeping with the theme, when it comes to playing more competitively, I wish terminators were actual matches to their fulff. Neigh unkillable death machines marching slowly into the bowels of the enemy stronghold.

I dare you to field a renegades and heretics army even in a casual environment.

I'll do it. What do I need to try it out? Can I proxy my guard forces?

You basically just need the e-book if you have a sizeable guard force.
GL i'll wait .

Edit: The index: forces astra militarum from FW, all required units are in there.

Yeah, they can't have missed to address them for so long, it is intentional. Seriously, have you seen how nerfed the Land Speeder has been in 8th ? It wasn't even that great before !

 godardc wrote:
Yeah, they can't have missed to address them for so long, it is intentional. Seriously, have you seen how nerfed the Land Speeder has been in 8th ? It wasn't even that great before !

Well the new Primaris TM with more dakka and higher flightstand has to sell.

I tend to use most of my units, even if they suck - and some of them suck in casual settings, even.

Eldar:
Swooping Hawks: Expensive, pay 7 points for a four-shot lasgun. Toughness 3, 4+ armour...die to a stiff breeze.
Fire Dragons: Egregiously expensive and absolute gak compared to Wraithguard who are slightly more expensive.
Warp Spiders: Unique but semi-pointless. Strength 6 don't matter when you've got no armour penetration 84% of the time. Disappointing mostly.
Striking Scorpions: Almost worth it, but dedicated high-speed space elves who've practiced the art of close combat for decades are no match for chaff throwing 4-5 attacks with spells/strats at 1/3rd the cost.
Howling Banshees: Suicidal lawn-darts. Better at stopping overwatch than actually fighting in close combat...whole squad will perish to 3-4 Ork boyz or a couple genestealers.
Warlocks: These I actually no longer use. They are so absolute gak, despite their powers I can't justify the points cost. Spiritseers and Farseers are okay.
Phoenix Lords: Cool, and I even love the models...but heroes who mostly want to get close, with no invulnerable save just disappear to anything shooting them. Asurmen and Fuegan are okay (invuln, and FNP respectively). Maugan Ra stands out since he doesn't need to get close.
Storm Guardians: Still don't see why this needed to happen...go back to just "Guardian" squads. Give me 4+ shooting/fighting at 6 points, and let me choose how to outfit my squad instead of arbitrarily dividing them. Guardians used to be able to take a nice selection of guns.
Eldar Support Weapons: Garbage, though some got a minor points decrease. Their weapon rules are completely gak.

In general, the Eldar Aspect Warriors suffer just like Space Marines. Assault units that can't compete with a simple Ork boy, and paying for skill and armour that doesn't benefit them in the waves of cheap boosted chaff units. They could literally all be fixed with a couple of stratagems which are aimed explicitly at their aspect. Phoenix Lords share the Aspect keywords, so this could be fixed quite easily...but I suspect GW is replacing the whole line instead of paying any attention to them (note the Specialist Detachments were aimed at Wraithguard and Guardian Bikers of all things...). I still use them on occasion and more or less regret it every single time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Yeah, they can't have missed to address them for so long, it is intentional. Seriously, have you seen how nerfed the Land Speeder has been in 8th ? It wasn't even that great before !

Well the new Primaris TM with more dakka and higher flightstand has to sell.

You jest...but unfortunately (not a conspiracy, just a genuine observation) this is actually intentional. Primaris have, thus far, outdone all of their normal marine counterparts and will continue to do so. Only just, but it will continue. It's the easiest way to slowly reduce old Marine kit sales, and then justify canceling them (again we're years out from some of this, but it's absolutely the plan).

All the chapters of both loyalist and chaos marine that aren't Alpha legion, black legion, thousand sons, ultramarine, or raven guard.

Celerior wrote:
All the chapters of both loyalist and chaos marine that aren't Alpha legion, black legion, thousand sons, ultramarine, or raven guard.

Ehem all of the new renegade warbands are playable beyond brazen beasts.

My Techpriest. Just not useful enough to see action. (I play IG)

WraithKnight. It needed a nerf from 7E, but GW overcompensated and made then garbage. They're a better now after their points dropped nearly 100pts. but they still cant' compare to Knights (which themselves aren't super great)

-

You mean you don't like a 380+ point model which gets four shots a turn? (I haven't looked at the datasheet in a while...but it's sooo underwhelming).

 Elbows wrote:
You mean you don't like a 380+ point model which gets four shots a turn? (I haven't looked at the datasheet in a while...but it's sooo underwhelming).

Yikes, might aswell delete the entry
From King to beggar or as we would say here:
König, Kaiser, hoseseicher.
King, emperor, Person that pees their pants.

Are we allowed to include units that we made?

If so, I'll nominate these two:



First one was a Corsair Prince I made in 7th. Strangely, he hasn't seen much use in 8th. Can't think why that might be.

Second one was basically another try at the same concept, as I never liked the wings I used on the first one.

Since DE still has bugger-all in the way of winged HQs, they're both forced to lead from the safety of their command centre on Planet Shelf.


In terms of off-the-shelf (no pun intended) units:

Incubi. I love the models but boy do they suck. Their weapons are weak, they're very fragile, they need a transport (unlike Mandrakes who compete for the same slot), and they have 0 support outside of 1 godawful special character who's little more than a glorified squad sergeant (but several times more expensive).

Medusae. Love the idea. Pity their rules were written by a haddock.

Cronos. I don't even know what this thing's role is supposed to be. It has bad shooting, bad melee and it's support abilities are laughably bad.


Veterans and Special Weapons Squads. I like the idea of these, especially having dozens of special weapons guys driving around in Chimeras. However, their being Elites makes them really bad, and the Rule of 3 kills them entirely.


Triarch Praetorians. Love the models. Love the idea. Wish the had even an iota of support.

Necron Destroyer Lord. Why does a melee HQ have WS3+? Why does a melee HQ have an aura that only supports a single, ranged unit? Why could it not have had the Necron Lord's aura (it's literally a Necron Lord with a Destroyer body!)? Does this model just need to be awful by some arbitrary decree?

Trazyn. Love his fluff but his rules are beyond awful. What happened to Mindshackle Scarabs? You know, the one piece of wargear that actually made Trazyn worth a damn. For a collector of artefacts he appears to have 0 artefacts. Also, his ability to body-swap with other models was based around him replacing models that cost 25-35pts. Now he's forced to replace models costing 70+pts, all of which are probably significantly more useful than Trazyn himself.