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Nagashek wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Nagashek wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:

Nagashek wrote:Cmon guys, let's be civil, yes? I acknowledge that I am clearly in the minority on the new Necron fluff. I've sold off my army, and now I don't have to play them OR endure this rewrite.

I did believe that the fluff needed expansion and explaination, but the full rewrite and retcon is pretty rediculous, and i don't like it. The insults are unnecessary.

Enjoy your honorbound alien spacemarines.

There is a single mad necron overlord who isn't aware he died and so goes about like he is a living honour-bound warrior.

...who also appears to be the best model in terms of power for the book that has so far been discussed. We can rant about Draigo carving his name into the heart of a demon primarch but suddenly making fun of the honor-bound "I'm okay with aliens" crons is out of bounds? :shrug: Arright.

...What?
I do think you are mistaken. No one knows this guys power yet.
We only know the abilities of 2 Overlords
The Stormbringer
The Infinite

And none of them is that mad overlord who thinks he's fleshy.

Was the Stormbringer NOT the guy who allied with the Blood Angels? Was the Strombringer also not the guy who can make the game Night Fight theo whole way through while striking units with lightning? If he's not the one, well, sorry then. Regardless, this is still a full rewrite of the backstory that I actually liked. If that makes me a Pariah, well then good news! Those aren't in this codex anymore either! Exeunt.

The Silent King allied with Blood Angels, the Stormbringer does make it night, and neither are the honor bound Necron lord. Do you even read the rumors/Codex or just get online to get angry?

The stormbringer makes it overcast and stormy (forcing the night fighting rules to come into play for that turn and potentially any consecutive turns).

But no the Silent King =/= the Stormbringer =/= the unnamed mad warrior.

I also think (and am very hopeful) that this adding of character and various 'tribes' of necrons, in addition to some new/old/new flavors being resurrected and re-imagined at the design studio, can point to a direction for the Ork Codex in the dim and distant future that will bring us back our Clans.

It was such a phenomenal bit of fluff that is sorely missed.

corpsesarefun wrote:The stormbringer makes it overcast and stormy (forcing the night fighting rules to come into play for that turn and potentially any consecutive turns).

But no the Silent King =/= the Stormbringer =/= the unnamed mad warrior.

Wait, didn't the Silent King disappear? I'm sure it said in the fluff preview that he exiled himself for some reason.

That was before they all went into hibernation, he's back now apparently.

First of all, wasnt the lord who was BFFs with the blood angels called something like, "night lord"? Secondly I though necron "shells" were made in the tomb worlds.
and the phased out spirits of the destroyed necrons were put in the newly made ones. And the destroyed bodies were recycled.

corpsesarefun wrote:The stormbringer makes it overcast and stormy (forcing the night fighting rules to come into play for that turn and potentially any consecutive turns).

But no the Silent King =/= the Stormbringer =/= the unnamed mad warrior.

Ahh! Okay, cool. Thanks for the clarification here.

JohnnoM wrote:First of all, wasnt the lord who was BFFs with the blood angels called something like, "night lord"?

Nope, Silent King. And the awesome alliance with the Blood Angels seems to have consisted of them not trying to keep fighting them while Tyranids crawled up their asses.

Dante shouldn't be able to match the silent king. hes prob seen more battles than Dante has taken breath.

Nagashek wrote:So you're saying it took a committee to decide that Necrons needed to be honorable warriors that respect Blood Angels? That Necrons are really more like the Iron Hands Space Marines than ACTUAL aliens.

No, I'm saying that all the Ward-bashing is ridiculous, since he wasn't solely responsible for the new direction the Necrons have apparently been taken in. A direction that includes one faction that believes in honourable behaviour towards enemies.

Before their motivations were inscrutible and alien.

'Kill everything that breathes' isn't really that inscrutible.

The new fluff doesn't make them 'good guys'. It takes an army that was boring and one-dimensional and makes them a widely diverse alien race with different motivations for each faction. And one of those factions even keeps the flavour of the previous codex... so all those complaining about their Necons being turned into Tomb Kings can just ignore the bits they don't like and continue using their Necrons as mindless automatons that just want to kill everything.

This isn't so much a retcon as an expansion. Before, the Necrons were just waking up, and nobody really knew what they were all about. Now, they're awake, and they turn out to have different personalities and motivations... which can only be a good thing in a game so dominated by different flavours of Space Marines. Giving people multiple reasons to go for a different army can only encourage diversity.

Zachilles wrote:

Nagashek wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Nagashek wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:

Nagashek wrote:Cmon guys, let's be civil, yes? I acknowledge that I am clearly in the minority on the new Necron fluff. I've sold off my army, and now I don't have to play them OR endure this rewrite.

I did believe that the fluff needed expansion and explaination, but the full rewrite and retcon is pretty rediculous, and i don't like it. The insults are unnecessary.

Enjoy your honorbound alien spacemarines.

There is a single mad necron overlord who isn't aware he died and so goes about like he is a living honour-bound warrior.

...who also appears to be the best model in terms of power for the book that has so far been discussed. We can rant about Draigo carving his name into the heart of a demon primarch but suddenly making fun of the honor-bound "I'm okay with aliens" crons is out of bounds? :shrug: Arright.

...What?
I do think you are mistaken. No one knows this guys power yet.
We only know the abilities of 2 Overlords
The Stormbringer
The Infinite

And none of them is that mad overlord who thinks he's fleshy.

Was the Stormbringer NOT the guy who allied with the Blood Angels? Was the Strombringer also not the guy who can make the game Night Fight theo whole way through while striking units with lightning? If he's not the one, well, sorry then. Regardless, this is still a full rewrite of the backstory that I actually liked. If that makes me a Pariah, well then good news! Those aren't in this codex anymore either! Exeunt.

The Silent King allied with Blood Angels, the Stormbringer does make it night, and neither are the honor bound Necron lord. Do you even read the rumors/Codex or just get online to get angry?

And to be fair, i thought the Stormbringer was called "The Stormlord." You might see how "Storm Lord" and "Silent King" are confusable if one reads quickly. And if the Silent King is not the "honorable crazy one who thinks he is still alive" you might see how I could confuse the two when the Silent King found the idea of killing the Blood Angels "Distatsteful."

See my point now? Several little details that seem to be alike. That isn't anger, it's pattern recognition. The pattern is a different one than what i am used to and what i like. This is not a matter of "Change is evil, GYAAAAARGH!!!" but more of "This change is incongruous with my expectations and I find it unpalatable."

insaniak wrote:
The new fluff doesn't make them 'good guys' It takes an army that was boring and one-dimensional and makes them a widely diverse alien race with different motivations for each faction. And one of those factions even keeps the flavour of the previous codex... so all those complaining about their Necons being turned into Tomb Kings can just ignore the bits they don't like and continue using their Necrons as mindless automatons that just want to kill everything.

This.
At first I was annoyed that the C'Tan were no longer the gods of the necrons, but then I realised I could make an army of crons that worshipped the C'Tan as said god, and in addition considered every organic lifeform as impure and therefore must be exterminated. Well, something like that anyway.

Anyway, no fluff isn't quite as bad as most would think. In fact, it's passable and opens up new possibilities for an army.

Nagashek wrote:...
And to be fair, i thought the Stormbringer was called "The Stormlord." You might see how "Storm Lord" and "Silent King" are confusable if one reads quickly. And if the Silent King is not the "honorable crazy one who thinks he is still alive" you might see how I could confuse the two when the Silent King found the idea of killing the Blood Angels "Distatsteful."

See my point now? Several little details that seem to be alike. That isn't anger, it's pattern recognition. The pattern is a different one than what i am used to and what i like. This is not a matter of "Change is evil, GYAAAAARGH!!!" but more of "This change is incongruous with my expectations and I find it unpalatable."

Necrons were my first army, and the backstory from the current codex is what drew me into Warhammer (and GW games in general) in the first place. I dislike the new direction for this army.

How much do I dislike it? Hmmm....

Many people have pointed out that the backstory needed some fixes. I don't disagree, but needing some fixes doesn't mean these fixes.


Rest of this was a little ! strong I'm afraid, please try and keep it to a PG/13 rating. Ta.
Reds8n

gorgon wrote:
Tyranid fluff -- and gameplay -- has changed with every incarnation. Not sure that's the best example.

So does Necron fluff and gameplay.

I'm not sure what you mean by "example"; it kind of seems like you didn't really read my post in the haste of making your own point. The guy I quoted mocked the concept of Tyranids needing a reason/having different reasons to facilitate their "kill everybody else" motivation, and I responded by pointing out that the latest Tyranid codex did in fact give them more complicated reasons for doing that, and a more fragmented overall strategy for achieving it.

Necrons werent my first army, having played since Rogue Trader, but I did get them as soon as they became available and im ecstatic about this fluff change. Boring vagueness is beaten by variety and nuance every time. There is actual motivation, and customization opportunities now present where only blandness used to be.

Another aside which makes me very happy is that they took an army that in its previous fluff was unstoppable in every sense of the word and changed it to a wild card. Boring absolutes are very stale. The rules as listed so far seem to point to a powerful addition to the current line and gives the army a legit chance to have wide variety in army composition.

Aside from being hung up on some minutia from a ten year old book who is really upset over this?

lazarian wrote:

Aside from being hung up on some minutia from a ten year old book who is really upset over this?

I sure am not, Necrons were my first army as well, and there is nothing but positives from the change in my view.

I hope GW does well on this revamp of the necrons

And if GW had kept the necron background the same, ie faceless automatons, then a lot of people would have complained that they're boring, and GW didn't do enough for the army or the concept, which was thin in the last codex.

Instead, GW 'advanced the timeline' from just waking up to awake. And people are complaining.

GW can't win if they don't move the timeline, and they lose if they do.

I like the new models and concepts, so much that I'm considering a small force to go with my 6 or so other 40k armies.

Everyone needs to stop arguing and focus on the most important thing:

No
More
Phase
Out
!

So excited. The only army I ever made an effort to play/seek games with. Finally now can theme them, instead of "dark grizzly swamp-(space robots)"

Cruentus wrote:And if GW had kept the necron background the same, ie faceless automatons, then a lot of people would have complained that they're boring, and GW didn't do enough for the army or the concept, which was thin in the last codex.

Instead, GW 'advanced the timeline' from just waking up to awake. And people are complaining.

GW can't win if they don't move the timeline, and they lose if they do.

I like the new models and concepts, so much that I'm considering a small force to go with my 6 or so other 40k armies.

I think there has to be a way to advance the timeline without turning the Necrons into yet another humanized alien force. Now they just seem like yet another human army with the only thing making them alien being that they're metal skeletons. So while it's great that they expanded the Necrons, for at least some players it was at the cost of what was appealing, a truly alien race.

Even if I'm somewhat disappointed in the shift from subtle TK in space to ramming it down our throats and the overhaul in the fluff, I'm more disappointed in the codex becoming yet another mech army with a weakened infantry.

I don't understand, Monoliths lose the awesomeness of living metal (I understand they haven't lost it completely, but why take away it's effectiveness?) while blood angels get it on their derp ravens?

I realize what people have told me, don't rely on having a theme in your army, Space marines will get it next codex.

Personally loving the fluff and can't wait for the codex to come out. The new direction is refreshing and gives the Necrons an actual identity rather than a faceless army that’s trying to scour all life from the Galaxy. Nids do that already. Now if you want zombified Warriors you can of course do it, but there are other options to play with if you want to.

Hexol wrote:

Cruentus wrote:And if GW had kept the necron background the same, ie faceless automatons, then a lot of people would have complained that they're boring, and GW didn't do enough for the army or the concept, which was thin in the last codex.

Instead, GW 'advanced the timeline' from just waking up to awake. And people are complaining.

GW can't win if they don't move the timeline, and they lose if they do.

I like the new models and concepts, so much that I'm considering a small force to go with my 6 or so other 40k armies.

I think there has to be a way to advance the timeline without turning the Necrons into yet another humanized alien force. Now they just seem like yet another human army with the only thing making them alien being that they're metal skeletons. So while it's great that they expanded the Necrons, for at least some players it was at the cost of what was appealing, a truly alien race.

Even if I'm somewhat disappointed in the shift from subtle TK in space to ramming it down our throats and the overhaul in the fluff, I'm more disappointed in the codex becoming yet another mech army with a weakened infantry.

Please attempt to explain to me how they were ever "truly alien". With, you know, specific examples and cogent arguments.

Because, to me, they looked like humanoid robots, with a human skeleton-inspired appearance, who used traditionally-shaped firearms, and drove floating pyramids, while embarked on their quest for traditional conquest. Nothing is alien about that.

Hexol wrote:I think there has to be a way to advance the timeline without turning the Necrons into yet another humanized alien force. Now they just seem like yet another human army with the only thing making them alien being that they're metal skeletons. So while it's great that they expanded the Necrons, for at least some players it was at the cost of what was appealing, a truly alien race.

Even if I'm somewhat disappointed in the shift from subtle TK in space to ramming it down our throats and the overhaul in the fluff, I'm more disappointed in the codex becoming yet another mech army with a weakened infantry.

You're probably right, but how do you advance what was an army with very limited unit selections? If they're mindless automotons, why would they have more choices in terms of waging war, that'd be rather humanized. Nids already evolve new weapons to deal with threats, so that's not an option, as an example. The fact appears that Necrons were 'humanized' at one point, and now find themselves along a continuum of humanization, which was their ultimate goal from the get-go, to get out of their metal shells and back into organic life forms.

Heck, I'm a Fleshtearer player, and got into it due to the FTs fluff from the Armageddon conflict. Now they're trying to be all honorable on their way out, which is total BS, and I ignore it (along witih a lot of the BA fluff from the new book).

I think your second point is the more telling. Every codex that comes out, many hope that it 'changes the meta' for the whole game of 40k. Necrons ain't it. Clearly GW is going to mech up every army they can (more expensive vehicles at a better margin) in the current edition, and we'll just have to see what 6th brings. Could the studio have been more creative in making a more unique 'alien' army? Maybe, but that's not what we have unfortunately. And GW is seling models, and this is probably the best way they saw to pander to their target audience (ie not most posters on dakka) by creating something 'almost marine like' in terms of creativity (necron empires = chapters).

Still, it'll be nice to see more necron armies on the table, and more necron armies with more variety than before.

Hmm

Further review on the Models, seems like we are really going to compete for our Elite, and Heavy support slots!

I really like the Idea of the Triarch Stalker, and the laser Targeting. Will be really good for taking out something nasty.

With the Gauss blaster becoming Rapid Fire, Immortals aren't a clear cut winner anymore.

I know for sure though, that I'm going to be missing having a Nightscythe! Seems like I'm going to be suffering from Dark Eldar Venom Syndrome!

Altruizine wrote:

Hexol wrote:

Cruentus wrote:And if GW had kept the necron background the same, ie faceless automatons, then a lot of people would have complained that they're boring, and GW didn't do enough for the army or the concept, which was thin in the last codex.

Instead, GW 'advanced the timeline' from just waking up to awake. And people are complaining.

GW can't win if they don't move the timeline, and they lose if they do.

I like the new models and concepts, so much that I'm considering a small force to go with my 6 or so other 40k armies.

I think there has to be a way to advance the timeline without turning the Necrons into yet another humanized alien force. Now they just seem like yet another human army with the only thing making them alien being that they're metal skeletons. So while it's great that they expanded the Necrons, for at least some players it was at the cost of what was appealing, a truly alien race.

Even if I'm somewhat disappointed in the shift from subtle TK in space to ramming it down our throats and the overhaul in the fluff, I'm more disappointed in the codex becoming yet another mech army with a weakened infantry.

Please attempt to explain to me how they were ever "truly alien". With, you know, specific examples and cogent arguments.

Because, to me, they looked like humanoid robots, with a human skeleton-inspired appearance, who used traditionally-shaped firearms, and drove floating pyramids, while embarked on their quest for traditional conquest. Nothing is alien about that.

Haven't you heard that conspiracy that says aliens brought humans to earth?
Ancient Aliens on the history channel/netflix, man.

gorgon wrote:and there's an argument for them being rare on the battlefield. So I understand.

That's never a good argument, though. Space Marines are supposed to be rare on the battlefield, too. Grey Knights even more so, to the point where their existence is supposedly a myth. But most armies you play against are likely to be a Space Marine variant or the new Grey Knights.

Love the new rules (thank god Phase Out is gone), but as far as the lore goes I'm in a bit of a love hate relationship with it at the moment.

On the Love side I'm glad that the lore got changed a bit and that now they have a much deeper background and history. I know they are meant to be robotic but before even their lore was fairly robotic, which wasn't a good thing.

On the Hate side I think the word "subtlety" escaped the GW team this Codex and units. As others have said this seems far too much like "Tomb Kings in Space" and it seems they made very little effort to hide the Egyptian styling and overtones where as before such things were a lot more subtle, now it just screams at you and shoves the overtones in your face.

With that said I love the models and the Flayed Ones are growing on me, I just think the paint scheme in the picture for them isn't the best (add a bit more blood to the skinned hides and they'd look much more intimidating). So want that Flayed One giving the corpse a morbid piggy-back ride.

Altruizine wrote:

Hexol wrote:

Cruentus wrote:And if GW had kept the necron background the same, ie faceless automatons, then a lot of people would have complained that they're boring, and GW didn't do enough for the army or the concept, which was thin in the last codex.

Instead, GW 'advanced the timeline' from just waking up to awake. And people are complaining.

GW can't win if they don't move the timeline, and they lose if they do.

I like the new models and concepts, so much that I'm considering a small force to go with my 6 or so other 40k armies.

I think there has to be a way to advance the timeline without turning the Necrons into yet another humanized alien force. Now they just seem like yet another human army with the only thing making them alien being that they're metal skeletons. So while it's great that they expanded the Necrons, for at least some players it was at the cost of what was appealing, a truly alien race.

Even if I'm somewhat disappointed in the shift from subtle TK in space to ramming it down our throats and the overhaul in the fluff, I'm more disappointed in the codex becoming yet another mech army with a weakened infantry.

Please attempt to explain to me how they were ever "truly alien". With, you know, specific examples and cogent arguments.

Because, to me, they looked like humanoid robots, with a human skeleton-inspired appearance, who used traditionally-shaped firearms, and drove floating pyramids, while embarked on their quest for traditional conquest. Nothing is alien about that.

-You could not communicate with them (occasionally they would respond to the Techpriests foolish enough to try, but usually not in a polite fashion) (Codex: Necrons; Ciaphas Cain: Caves of Ice)

-They appeared and disappeared at will, striking seemingly random targets with no real identifiable goal. This included ignoring interlopers inside their infrastructure, destroying seemingly harmless settlements in other systems, or sending a strikeforce to Mars. (Codex: Necrons; Caves of Ice)

-Their technology was inscrutable, even to the elite of the Priests of the Omnissiah and members of Ordo Xenos (Codex: Necrons; Ciaphas Cain: Caves of Ice)

-They were the remaining pawns of once shapeless energy beings that fed off of the energy of stars. Once those star beings were condensed into a body, they found the life energy of sentient beings highly palatable. The Necrons as we know them partake in a "Red Harvest," to take living beings to drain dry, or terrify them, with certain emotions "flavoring" the life energy and therefore feeding the star vampires the necrons revere as gods. Even this piece of information is largely unknown to all but the Eldar. So, the race is so strange that only the Eldar understand them, and that only barely. (Codex: Necrons)

-They do not exist to conquer, per se, but to feed. Conquering is a very human desire (and one easily understood). Living beings are food to them, and hated food at that for their continued living condition. So the Necrons both need and loathe the living. One could see that as a vampiric kind of dichotomy, which is also alien. (Codex: Necrons)

-They do not use the warp, or even fully understand it. If the severing of the material and immaterial would kill all life, causing their C'tan masters to starve, they may not even understand this, much as a Tau would not understand it, having no psykers. (Codex: Necrons)

-They are immortal, soulless, and therefore fearless. (Codex: Necrons)

-Their skeletal form is a bipedal creature with 4 limbs and one head. And thus takes the form of: Humans, demons, tau, kroot, eldar, and orks. As the majority of that list is not human, I would therefore posit that their skeletal forms are as much elvish as human, and therefore: alien, if only by virtue of statistics. (Empirical evidence)

Is that sufficiently cogent?

Now they are: Honorable, Murderous, Plotting, Communicative, Understandable, Wear clothing, utilize common strategies, have titles and reputations, merciful, and worry about being surrounded and cut down.

This is not as alien as: fearless, soulless, silent, inscrutable, nameless and faceless.

It always surprises me how despite GW clamping down on information, we’re able to get incredibly detailed rumours.

I quite like the new direction the necron fluff has taken. There is a lot more depth and character to their fluff now (although I will reserve final judgement for the final product). Not a fan of the new sculpts and I agree with the “tomb kings in space” criticisms. If I personally were to collect them (which I’m not), I’d clip and green stuff away all the Egyptian stuff.

Rulewise, the only thing that glares out to me is the Storm Lord as he doesn’t seem like a very fun rule set to play against.