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INTRODUCTORY NOTE: I’m new here. Furthermore, English is not my native language. Finally, I want to stress that I strongly agree with a lot of 40k players that most xenos factions definitely deserve plenty of new releases before GW decides to introduce any new SM unit (or any new SM model).
MAIN POST: Let’s just pretend for a while that xenos players got everything they wanted and that new SM releases made sense some time in the future. Wouldn’t it then be cool if some SM chapters got new ”monster” units, e.g. some fire salamander/reptile style unit for SM Salamanders?
I mean, Space Wolves got some wolves. Why can’t Salamanders get some fun stuff? I can imagine dinosaur-like units would be popular... Maybe even flying ones.
I think it could work well with marine being consolidated into one book. If you are a space wolve, you have fenrisian wolves and thunder wolves. If you are a salamander you have fire drakes and thunder drakes cavalery. Etc. All under a generic datasheet.
But "no model no rules" means won't happen.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Lore-wise, I'm not sure I like the idea for how I personally see Marines - Space Wolves are already an outside case compared to your average Chapter, and I think of even those Thunderwolves as a bit ridiculous. Marines are armed and armoured to almost the absolute tip of Imperial technology available, ditching that for monsters seems like a step backwards.
The rule of cool trumps all, though. If you show up to the table with a Captain on eagle-back and it's an awesome-looking model, and you tell me he's "got a jump pack", I'm not gonna turn you away.
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
The person you search is fabius Bile, but that is not a person loyalists willl tell you.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Yeah, I had this idea once to make a chapter that ride massive cyber dragons into battle. I think that would still fit with the shock and awe style of battle of the space marines.
I think there's a case that any chapter could bring a heraldic beast or pet monster from their homeworld to the battle. Should they though?
SM are deploying from droppods or Thunderhawks a lot of the time. They are enhanced with resilience to these deployment methods and trained in their use.
I think the monster units are appropriate for Chaos Space Marines, not the loyalist ones. Even the wolves in a Space Wolf army are kinda dumb, imo. Chaos gets Greater Daemons and robot dragons, and that's part of what makes Chaos, Chaos.
As a Salamander player, I wouldn't be a fan. Doesn't really fit the lore where the salamanders are hunted as a rite of passage, but not really tamed with any regularity.
I would love to see more chapter specific units at some point, but honestly those should wait until after other army lines have gotten good refreshes/new models. Marines have gotten plenty lately.
I hate the Wolves on Wolves but given that example its not unlikely that there are similar units in some other Chapters.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
For me, if I wanted an army with heavily armored warriors righting huge beasts into battle, I'd play Age of Sigmar using either Stormcast Enterals or Slaves to Darkness. I know it is not the same nor possible in all areas. However, if that's the kind of models you want to paint up and play the game has them. Plus, grading on the Games Workshop curve, Age of Sigmar rules-wise is pretty good.
For Loyal Space Marines, I think those kind of units are outside their faction identity. Nothing really stopping them from becoming part of the loyalist space marine faction identity. Just the same, I don't think it fits that well for them and even the Primaris (a collection of models I really like) are becoming a little bloated with unit options.
If you want to stick with 40k, I think Chaos Space Marines fit this idea much better. They already have the Lord Discordant riding on a huge beast. So it fits their faction identity much better.
Given the power, I would much rather create Eldar Exodites as a new faction if I wanted people riding monsters. I am personally not super keen on it, but I know a lot of people really are. And as much as I am tired of the memes, Xenos really do need a lot of attention. If flesh and blood monsters aren't your thing, I think maybe AdMech or maybe even Dark Mechanium would be a better place for people riding robotic, monster mounts.
I don't mean to rain on your parade, I just think space marines especially loyalist space marines are bad fit for a number of reasons.
If you want to stick with 40k, I think Chaos Space Marines fit this idea much better. They already have the Lord Discordant riding on a huge beast. So it fits their faction identity much better.
Given the power, I would much rather create Eldar Exodites as a new faction if I wanted people riding monsters. I am personally not super keen on it, but I know a lot of people really are. And as much as I am tired of the memes, Xenos really do need a lot of attention. If flesh and blood monsters aren't your thing, I think maybe AdMech or maybe even Dark Mechanium would be a better place for people riding robotic, monster mounts.
I don't mean to rain on your parade, I just think space marines especially loyalist space marines are bad fit for a number of reasons.
Sod that noise. If someone wants to start a conversion project for beast-riding Marines? All the yes. This hobby is what you make of it, and putting supersoldiers on monsters works perfectly fine.
I run 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry 4-5 man squads , wulffen and wolves. Shameless self plug but in my signature is the link to my Dakka P&M Blog. I'm currently working on a Wulfen Wolf lord count as wolf lord on twc. it's also cannon that Bran Redmaw, a SW lord turns into a werewolf to fight. Admittedly I had to say wolf too many times already. I also wouldn't mind SW being able to unleash a kraken (imagine it the size of the smaller knight) into war.
Automatically Appended Next Post: you could also do something like this for salamanders and a drake
Automatically Appended Next Post: The pic is not mine, it's linked to owner.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/17 21:10:33
Primaris fanboy: "NO, you can't just give old marines 2W, they're supposed to be squatted!" GW: "Heavy Bolters go brrrrrrrr"
If the argument for their uniqueness is spamming Wulfen and Thunderwolves, then it wasn't really a unique army to begin with whether you like it or not.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
If the argument for their uniqueness is spamming Wulfen and Thunderwolves, then it wasn't really a unique army to begin with whether you like it or not.
this is just one more thing that takes distinctiveness away from non marine armies.
there's an entire eldar army riding dinosaurs they've never produced, but how is that going to compete when gw release 'space marines: dinoriders'...
I have never bought the thunderwolf cavalry for my wolves because i think it's a bit dumb. pet wolves made more sense and had been in the fluff since the earliest miniatures.
im sure a counts as space wolf army with lizards or something would be a fine thing, but I dont really want to see it added to the marine list in an official capacity.
If the argument for their uniqueness is spamming Wulfen and Thunderwolves, then it wasn't really a unique army to begin with whether you like it or not.
Super Ready wrote: Lore-wise, I'm not sure I like the idea for how I personally see Marines - Space Wolves are already an outside case compared to your average Chapter, and I think of even those Thunderwolves as a bit ridiculous. Marines are armed and armoured to almost the absolute tip of Imperial technology available, ditching that for monsters seems like a step backwards.
The rule of cool trumps all, though. If you show up to the table with a Captain on eagle-back and it's an awesome-looking model, and you tell me he's "got a jump pack", I'm not gonna turn you away.
It's the reason why I don't like the wolves, they take the nodric style, that is really cool and dial it up to 50 by adding in literal prancing wolf bois and giant wolf Calvary in edition to having Santa as a warlord. It's just too silly.
I'm all for having a "cavalry" entry among Space Marines, or at the least replacing bikes models with mounts and using the same datasheet.
- Dark Angels pre-marine time definately were mounted knights, could see them using beasts as knights
- We have Thunderwolves, wouldn't mind seeing attack bikes as cave bears or somesuch. The Wooly Mammoth as a counts-as rhino or Land Raider seems cool as well.
- While Salamanders hunt dragons, wouldn't be too much of a stretch if they got some sort of wyvern. Possibly giant bats?
- White Scars could definitely have souped-up biomechanical horses along the lines of what Admech got.
- Ultras riding captured Carnifexes or other beasts from the tyrannic wars?
- Blood Angels maybe should have the giant bats, if anything.
- Imperial Fists. Um...giant shrews or moles? Probably best to leave them with just bikes.
- Raven Guard having giant crows or griffins?
- Iron hands. Leave them with bikes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/19 09:53:48
In the lore I consider good, marines wage war by taking the "keep it simple, stupid" approach as elite shock troops that locate their targets, fly in by planes and drop pods in conjunction with close support from air and orbital assets, utterly smash whatever resistance is offered and depart back into rearm while normal human forces carry out the mopping up operations. Pragmatic and brutal, where they can leverage their often superior physique and equipment on a small front to overwhelm the defences.
Buuut... besides the fact that rule of cool in an insane future trumps all and if you as a player find it coolest ever that your marines would ride dinosaurs into battle (just do it), there are still lots of entirely appropriate situations where you could see marines pressing creatures into their service. Scouting formations that utilise local fauna as mounts instead of bikes if terrain so dictates, chapters that consider various animals sacred in their teachings, a defensive situation where their estates are under attack and they release beasts from their pens as meat shields (perhaps they were kept for gladiatorial rites or hunting sport)...
If you enjoy the idea, create it. The galaxy is a big place.
I'd be more inclined to use the sigmarine dracoline models as a base. They're a bit more imposing than the hippogryphs, and they have plenty of choice.
Go nuts, 40k is supposed to be gloriously stupid, so chuck some marines on whatever dragon-y thing you think fits best and looks coolest.
The modern raptor sculpts are a bit small for marines (even older classic marine sculpts), in my opinion, but those Dracolines look like they'd be a good fit for a "bike" conversion. A STD Karkadrak, Fyreslayer Magmadroth, or Seraphon Carnasaur would be a good base for a character or larger beast, but that's going to be harder to make work rules-wise. Maybe a dreadnought with some sort of melee weapon if you aren't rolling as SW and calling it a lord on thunder wolf?
=Angel= wrote: I think there's a case that any chapter could bring a heraldic beast or pet monster from their homeworld to the battle. Should they though?
SM are deploying from droppods or Thunderhawks a lot of the time. They are enhanced with resilience to these deployment methods and trained in their use.
Snuffles the Razorbear? Not so much.
Aaaand coffee shot all over my keyboard!
Thank you for that.
As for whether SM could have monsters? Sure, why not?
My SM don't have any personally, but my Eldar/Dark Eldar/Exodites are very monster-y. It fits more with their elf-y nature IMO, especially with their old Exodite Dragon Knights.
IG rough riders can be "counts as" on almost anything.
As was pointed out earlier, SM "jump packs" can also be anything big enough to carry a SM for a bit.
Also, some chapters would have some sweet models...and others would have none. The space based chapters would be left to rot, again.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I run 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry 4-5 man squads , wulffen and wolves. Shameless self plug but in my signature is the link to my Dakka P&M Blog. I'm currently working on a Wulfen Wolf lord count as wolf lord on twc. it's also cannon that Bran Redmaw, a SW lord turns into a werewolf to fight. Admittedly I had to say wolf too many times already. I also wouldn't mind SW being able to unleash a kraken (imagine it the size of the smaller knight) into war.
Automatically Appended Next Post: you could also do something like this for salamanders and a drake
Automatically Appended Next Post: The pic is not mine, it's linked to owner.
That thing is ridiculous....ridiculously awesome! Guessing it "counts as" a Land Raider? Niiiice.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/20 23:20:46
Grey Knights 712 points Imperial Stormtroopers 3042 points Lamenters 1787 points Xenomorphs 995 points 1200 points + 1790 points 770 points 369 points of Imperial Guard to bolster the Sisters of Battle
Kain said: "This will surely end in tears for everyone involved. How very 40k." lilahking said "the imperium would rather die than work with itself"
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch 
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Eldar- 4436 pts
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Imperial Stormtroopers 3042 points 
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