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I haven't been into Warhammer or played Warhammer for about 25 years.

Out of curiosity, I watched a few (very well made fwiw) videos on WH40K lore on YouTube, and it gave me the itch to get back into it.

I have some serious reservations however, and it basically revolves around it all being too blatant a money grab on behalf of GW.

The first one is ... 9th edition. 9th? Are they releasing a new version every 2 years?? So by the time the average person has handed out enough money to Games Workshop and spent enough time painting to actually have completed a real army ... it's time to get a new one. Convenient.

The second is the miniatures ... the move to 32mm minis was pretty underhanded imo. They're not easier to paint ... they're actually more difficult to paint as there's so much more detail crammed into them and each model takes longer to complete to a decent standard (and uses more paint). Why? When we're already struggling for space on a limited sized gaming table? So everyone had to buy new armies of course.

So I do have reservations over the whole nature of Games Workshop and feel I don't want to give them any of my money just on general principle.

However, after 9 editions the rules must be pretty damn solid by now. I can also get a pretty good deal on the "Indomitus" box set that contains two reasonable armies in the box (although I'd want to paint them and that would take me ages).

Are there any other good reasons I should bite the bullet and buy this? Is there any indication it's not simply going to be replaced by WH40K v10 in 18 months time?

It is an entirely different game than what 40K was for the compatible editions (3rd-7th). so if you approach it as a different game with some of the same cosmetic look you may like it.

The game now is heavily influenced by resource mechanic games like magic

There is a list of things i really dislike about it game mechanics wise, but that has been hashed over in many topics here. it is the reason why our gaming group has, like the WHFBs players who have gone back to playing the editions they love the best (usually 6th or 8th). gone back to playing 5th edition with a few house rules.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/789567.page

We all know it is a rules rollercoaster and a cash grab(codex creep has been replaced by edition creep and stratagem creep), it is GW after all. some of us have jumped off the train but still like playing with our 40K minis.

Get into a legacy edition of 40k, Facebook, here, and having friends semi interested would help with this.

You will have an unchanging ruleset, unchanging minis, and since you will have to buy second hand you won't support gw.

Honestly though if you simply not get into marines it seems your army will be fairly stabilized. 9th is a pretty good edition imo and the indom box is a good buy. The only issue is the marine half is only good in 9th right now (not that you couldn't make custom rules for them for a legacy edition).

There are also 3rd party rulesets that you can use the gw minis with, and other si fi game systems. Nothing is keeping you from just saying your games take place in what ever lore you prefer. Imagination is a hell of a characteristic to have. Happy gaming.

I personally share many of your reservations, which is why I play Grimdark Future rather than 40K. But I think 9th is probably pretty decent all told, it has a very positive reception overall, with similar caveats to other editions.

https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/grimdark-future/

with the pandemic going on and lockdowns not to end very soon I say it is not worth to start it now

main advantage of 40k is that you can easily find pick up games because a lot of people play it

with stores and clubs mostly closed, not many pick up games going on and without that there is no real reason to start that game instead of something else

PieInTheSky wrote:

However, after 9 editions the rules must be pretty damn solid by now.

well, it is more like 9 different games with each having different flaws, rules overall are less solid as by the time you left as we are at the beginning of an Edition (and GW takes half of an Edi to sort things out, than you have ~1-2 years were it works fine and you get a new game with the next Editon starting over again)

A few weeks (or even days ago), I would have tentatively said yes, though frankly the whole CCG with minis game they have morphed it into makes me never want to dive to deep into 40k as it has been infested with tournament tryhards trying to turn it into an esport. Play it with friends for funsies but don't take it seriously.

After the DG codex leaks came out? Nope. Not worth it in the slightest. If you are interested in kitbashing or making your models personal in any way, GW will just gut your army because they are not loyalist SMs.

Id say pass on it and try something else if you haven't, like bolt action or battletech. If you can find an opponent warmaster is still a great ruleset.

PieInTheSky wrote:


So I do have reservations over the whole nature of Games Workshop and feel I don't want to give them any of my money just on general principle.
(...)
However, after 9 editions the rules must be pretty damn solid by now.

HAHAHAHA! If only we were that lucky.
Seeing the DG book, nah don't bother. Unless you like marines, they get a free pass on rules. The game can be fun but GW seems to do it's darnest to just frustrate me at every turn, for every step forward they take 2 back, shuffle a bit sideways, make a U-turn and repeat.

 Da Boss wrote:
I personally share many of your reservations, which is why I play Grimdark Future rather than 40K. But I think 9th is probably pretty decent all told, it has a very positive reception overall, with similar caveats to other editions.

https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/grimdark-future/

I like how neatly those rules are laid out as a reference. I was dubious how it would play with only two pages of rules, but that appears to be more like a reminder reference to the 16 page Basic Rulebook PDF. Still not a lot of pages!

PieInTheSky wrote:
I haven't been into Warhammer or played Warhammer for about 25 years.

Out of curiosity, I watched a few (very well made fwiw) videos on WH40K lore on YouTube, and it gave me the itch to get back into it.

I have some serious reservations however, and it basically revolves around it all being too blatant a money grab on behalf of GW.

The first one is ... 9th edition. 9th? Are they releasing a new version every 2 years?? So by the time the average person has handed out enough money to Games Workshop and spent enough time painting to actually have completed a real army ... it's time to get a new one. Convenient.

The second is the miniatures ... the move to 32mm minis was pretty underhanded imo. They're not easier to paint ... they're actually more difficult to paint as there's so much more detail crammed into them and each model takes longer to complete to a decent standard (and uses more paint). Why? When we're already struggling for space on a limited sized gaming table? So everyone had to buy new armies of course.

So I do have reservations over the whole nature of Games Workshop and feel I don't want to give them any of my money just on general principle.

However, after 9 editions the rules must be pretty damn solid by now. I can also get a pretty good deal on the "Indomitus" box set that contains two reasonable armies in the box (although I'd want to paint them and that would take me ages).

Are there any other good reasons I should bite the bullet and buy this? Is there any indication it's not simply going to be replaced by WH40K v10 in 18 months time?

9th edition is actually an 8.5 edition.

The jump from 7th to 8th was a complete redesign of the game (good thing, because the game had become hot garbage).

The game went the direction of AoS, with a simplified rulebook but with a lot of specific rules for factions and models.

It currently competes with 5th edition as the best edition ever, depends who you ask to.

Normally I would say that this is a great time to join back into the game, it is one of its gold ages... and yet I would refrain from it.

There are non zero chances that this crap goes on for another 12-24 months with ups and downs, so you are hardly going to get many games in this edition.

If anything, I would suggest you to try playing it on TTS and see if the game is for you.

PieInTheSky wrote:
I haven't been into Warhammer or played Warhammer for about 25 years.

Out of curiosity, I watched a few (very well made fwiw) videos on WH40K lore on YouTube, and it gave me the itch to get back into it.

I have some serious reservations however, and it basically revolves around it all being too blatant a money grab on behalf of GW.

The first one is ... 9th edition. 9th? Are they releasing a new version every 2 years?? So by the time the average person has handed out enough money to Games Workshop and spent enough time painting to actually have completed a real army ... it's time to get a new one. Convenient.

The second is the miniatures ... the move to 32mm minis was pretty underhanded imo. They're not easier to paint ... they're actually more difficult to paint as there's so much more detail crammed into them and each model takes longer to complete to a decent standard (and uses more paint). Why? When we're already struggling for space on a limited sized gaming table? So everyone had to buy new armies of course.

So I do have reservations over the whole nature of Games Workshop and feel I don't want to give them any of my money just on general principle.

However, after 9 editions the rules must be pretty damn solid by now. I can also get a pretty good deal on the "Indomitus" box set that contains two reasonable armies in the box (although I'd want to paint them and that would take me ages).

Are there any other good reasons I should bite the bullet and buy this? Is there any indication it's not simply going to be replaced by WH40K v10 in 18 months time?

Nope. 40k is not the game for you. Everything in your post tells us that. So just go away now.
If you don't? All you'll be (if you're not already) is one of the trolls who's hobby is railing against the game/company vs actually playing & having some fun with your friends.
So just spare us all & take up a different hobby.

I would encourage oldhammer ... battlebible, 2nd... 4th... any other edition but this one barring the ridiculous 8th edition...

Hi PieInTheSky, and welcome to Dakka!

I am a fan of 9th. In terms of a game to jump into without a current background... depends what you're looking for. I have *fun* playing an action game. Not so much a strategy game, though there is a step to get good at the strategic part (list building, deployment, knowing your army). It's not much of a tactical game, but there is a step to get good at the tactical part (making decisions, weighing your risk vs rewards, knowing when to be aggressive and when to hold back).

I've found it fun to play. I think the core rules are in a pretty good place, and GW has been actively balancing the points and rules, though often at a $ cost to the players every year.

That said... if you already have a negative view of GW, I doubt you'll gain an appreciation for their business methods.

If you're concerned about getting a playable force on the table, and having *time* to play games, I've enjoyed Kill Team. It's similar enough to 40k "proper" that you'll scratch the same itch, and I find it's a more tactically rewarding experience, especially if you use a fair bit of LOS blocking terrain, as you'll have single soldiers peeking around a corner, taking cover where a full squad would need to line up along the edge, which looks kind of weird. It's also much easier to dip your toes into, so to speak. A box or two of infantry is all you typically need to play most factions. Some factions are "best" with pieces from 3 different boxes, but that's not the usual. I think Tau are one of the hardest hit with wanting Pathfinders, Drones, and either Stealth Suits and/or Crisis suits. Only because Crisis suits are expensive, on top of needing at least one other box, since the drones come in the other kits.

I'd say there are better games out there... but 40k isn't bad. And it's popular, which makes finding other players a lot easier. Kill Team is a great way to get the flavour of 40k without dumping a ton of cash, and you can get by quite well with just the Core Rules and the Elite rules (which contain the rules for 95% of the models allowed in Kill Team).

I was doing some calculation and if you last played 25 years ago, then you were probably playing in 2nd edition? I have seen a lot of people compare 8th and 9th to 2e favourably. Although obviously the design is modernised quite a bit from back then.

It is a departure from 3-7th edition, which is why you might see some negativity in the thread. I would say it is worth looking into though, the game is more popular than ever so they must be doing something right.

(For what it's worth, I played in 2nd, and I wasn't very fond of it. I do like 9th though!)

I really like what they've done (waiting on the CSM book to potentially get back in, though the DG equipment nonsense has me worried)

The fact it will probably only be a 1.5 to 2 year edition (after the lost gaming from the plague) is a shame which will make the book investment even more painful than usual.

No

Yes, it is worth it.

Dakka is the last place you want to ask this question

Howdy PieInTheSky.

Question: do you like to play stand alone or competitive games, or are you a campaign player.

If you like stand alone competitive games, it's a bit of a crap shoot whether or not you'll like this version of the game better than the last time you played. There are pluses and minuses, and really it's all going to boil down to personal preference.

If, however, you like campaign play, this is almost guaranteed to be your favourite iteration of the game ever. They've created something called the Crusade system, and I swear I've been waiting for it since I started playing in 1989.

Hey Op

GW hasnt changed as business.
Their BS business practices hasn't changed.
Their rules bull crap hasnt changed.

Every single expensive book with rules they release comes invalid out of the gate as it needs day 1 errata & FAQ. Every. Single. One..

But boy oh boy, am I not investing a single penny into any other factions or miniatures from them...

It looks like very soon we will all be playing with exactly the same squads which are only ever going to be as shown on the box and whats in the box...

My advice.

Play something else or stick to an old ruleset and buy old minis second hand.

 Da Boss wrote:
I personally share many of your reservations, which is why I play Grimdark Future rather than 40K. But I think 9th is probably pretty decent all told, it has a very positive reception overall, with similar caveats to other editions.

https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/grimdark-future/

I would really like to try Grim Dark Future. It does all the hard work of making the unit profiles for most of the stuff.

For what I don't like i can always home brew stuff.



People in my area more likely than not will not deviate from the official ruleset however.


To OP: The game is fun if you like building a "deck" and seeing how it works against other decks. Typically your success in the game relies on how the cards interact with each other, and your opponents. Tactical maneuvering and feints is not the name of the game here. You can almost always bet that the newest stuff is the most powerful stuff.

Grimtuff wrote:A few weeks (or even days ago), I would have tentatively said yes, though frankly the whole CCG with minis game they have morphed it into makes me never want to dive to deep into 40k as it has been infested with tournament tryhards trying to turn it into an esport. Play it with friends for funsies but don't take it seriously.

They're kinda like genestealers or chaos cultists

addnid wrote:Dakka is the last place you want to ask this question

A truer statement has never been uttered.

As the owner of 7 editions of 40k, I can tell you unequivocally that as a set of rules...

... no edition of 40k is ever worth retail price. (possible exception Rogue Trader)

What might be worth it however, is the built-in playerbase. So the question is not really "How great is the game?" Rather the question is "How much is ease of finding a game worth to you?" No wargame is as easy to find opponents for as 40k.

I've been out of 40k for the last 2 editions but my friend who is in thinks that this is one of the most playable editions ever and it did let him connect with a bunch of players quickly upon moving to a new state.

Getting into 40K

Here's my take on the OP's question.

As a general consideration, be aware that you can get used codexes and rule books for older editions for very cheap (like $3-$10) used online.

Now onto the questions...

How serious are you about wanting to actually play the game, versus just messing around in the hobby (ie buying some miniatures, painting, reading lore, etc). If the former then we go to the next question. If the latter, then do whatever strikes your fancy and don't worry about the edition. You can pick up older stuff for cheap and have a blast reading up on things.

If you want to play, do you need to rely on finding an established group (eg at a game store)? If so, you're probably going to need to get involved with the current edition (9th). The good news is that the basic core rules are free online through GW - but this really isn't sufficient beyond a very basic skirmish.

If you are planning on getting your own friends involved with playing, or you find a group that is already or willing to play "oldHammer" then you have some choice about what edition you want to play.

Most people around here either playing the current edition or playing some version of a
house-modified 5th edition. 5th edition was quite compete and reasonably well balanced without getting too complex or convoluted. You can find the old books for cheap online.

The beautiful thing about setting into the old edition is that there is no pressure to keep up with state of game - both energy wise and financially. The game might play tomorrow is the same one you could come back to in another 25 years.

Yeah pretty much, but you are asking on Dakka. Salt central.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Yeah pretty much, but you are asking on Dakka. Salt central.

Be honest, that's pretty much any active forum with a 40K community. warseer used to be the same before it crashed.

People can armchair command and debate from the safety of their computer without much concern for real world blowback.

It's a circular argument 40K is big because it is accessible, it's accessible because it is so big...it just took them a long time to get here.

It is not the best written system, and the price point is terrible compared to many other games. the lore(and overall model quality) keeps em coming back and GW knows that. with their strategy to drive sales they have to keep pushing the next update/expansion/edition through both models and rules.

battletech as a matter of comparison advanced the story/lore and introduced new models for new units in the timeline but the overall game rules have not changed much since 1987 and work across all time lines the same way.

It just comes down to rather or not you enjoy the current game design, many of us don't so we play the editions we like best, it doesn't really impact the player base that likes the current edition.

In my opinion people that start the hobby should focus on the hobby, not to be competitive on the table. By the time they have properly learned how to play, buy, assemble and paint a 2000 points army with some benched units to eventually make some changes the game is already migrated from the starting point, sometimes even very far.

So my advice is: if you re-enter 40k consider this edition like some kind of trial for 10th. You won't probably be able to play properly before a couple of years unless you find an extremely relaxed environment.

People that start the hobby demanding EVERYTHING NOW!!!! and get soon disappointed after realizing that the game gets significant updates every few months have definitely made the wrong choice, playing 40k is not something they should seek.

Those people should only play the simulator: this way they'll have everything now and everything always.

 Eilif wrote:
As the owner of 7 editions of 40k, I can tell you unequivocally that as a set of rules...

... no edition of 40k is ever worth retail price. (possible exception Rogue Trader)

What might be worth it however, is the built-in playerbase. So the question is not really "How great is the game?" Rather the question is "How much is ease of finding a game worth to you?" No wargame is as easy to find opponents for as 40k.

I've been out of 40k for the last 2 editions but my friend who is in thinks that this is one of the most playable editions ever and it did let him connect with a bunch of players quickly upon moving to a new state.

That player base question is IMO indeed the most important one ☝️

I would hold off getting in until it matters. I haven't gotten any books for awhile and won't till I need to and will be able to play.

The leaks and rules for most of them come pretty quick and easy these days so keep your eyes open and take your time.

I may be mired into the bog but you don't have to be yet, save yourself if at all possible.

I also add, no edition of 40k is ever fine tuned or the best. They just keep changing it up over and over to sell books until the end of time, perfecting the system I really don't think is what they are striving for.