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Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Huge numbers of people in texas have been subjected to a blackout during the deadly winter storm we're having across america. Obviously it's unlikely they can report on their conditions but i want to give them all my best wishes since if they play 40k and hang out here they're part of our little brotherhood. Please join me in thinking of them at what is literally a dark time for them and given the extreme cold a dangerous one too.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/knocked-out-texas-millions-face-record-lows-without-power-new-n1257964?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3uQVcC6wL904sv0TsRVcqFY_nWLL5gB0QDWIAruUTPcUakFpSahyNoLmY

My area has seen single digits for days on end now, but at least the dice haven't rolled a blackout for us too, so I hope for them to make it thru this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/16 15:05:34


"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Can we get a mortarium on the Facebook-style spam?


OT: I guess sisters can just freeze, then?

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





I'm sure if the huddle around a bbq or keep warm discharging military grade hardware they should stay toasty enough

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






I hope everything is alright down there, we are supposed to get hit here again soon.

"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





-38? That would be likely record breaking where i live as well O_o.

Stay safe. Suddenly the -17 out here i'm not happy about feels like not a big deal...

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Made in gb
[DCM]
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Wow that's cold.. I'm amazed actually a lot more people haven't died.

I think, speaking from a country that doesn't get enough snow to be prepared and always gets brought to a standstill, it sounds like the biggest problem is people just aren't equipped for it, have thin-walled houses appropriate for the usual climate, and then are trying to fire up BBQs inside for heat etc.

What sounds like mismanagement of how the power grid has been set up as well, from what I have read.

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Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Pacific wrote:
Wow that's cold.. I'm amazed actually a lot more people haven't died.

I think, speaking from a country that doesn't get enough snow to be prepared and always gets brought to a standstill, it sounds like the biggest problem is people just aren't equipped for it, have thin-walled houses appropriate for the usual climate, and then are trying to fire up BBQs inside for heat etc.

What sounds like mismanagement of how the power grid has been set up as well, from what I have read.


Yes, the risk of getting "political" in explaining reality, pretty much all the 48 american connected states are part of a national energy grid system ran byt the fedgov and in an emergency can share power from other states that have surpluses at the moment.

Well, texas decided it didn't want to submit to the federal regulations involved in this and left their power grid off this system, so when their grid fails they can't get a single watt from neighboring states.

This was considered a mark of pride by most texans, the refusal to submit to any federal control of their grid, and was seen as no problem as texas considers itself the energy capital of the world, wrongfully as france is actually a much larger energy exporter.

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/electricity-export-france/

There are reports of some hotels drastically raising rates now that some people are seeking shelter from the cold.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/17 16:11:30


"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in ca
Nimble Skeleton Charioteer





It's pretty serious down there, I hope they can get sorted out soon.

My drive to work yesterday was difficult, and we have the infistructure to deal with winter storms.

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Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






There's no planning for once-in-a-lifetime weather events like this.

But putting 25% of your grid on wind power means those big events are going to hurt all the more, compared to coal/gas/nuke plants. Is it worth the cost to build backup capacity in case your renewables go down? Any government with a large % of wind/solar power is going to have to consider this going forward.

   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






I don't think the issue is them being separate, the issue is the once in a life time event. It's in a similar way to the earthquake that happened on the east coast. A barely once in a life time event that you have to say "Should we even prepare for something that may not happen for a good 3-400 years?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/17 16:54:26


"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BlackoCatto wrote:
I don't think the issue is them being separate, the issue is the once in a life time event. It's in a similar way to the earthquake that happened on the east coast. A barely once in a life time event that you have to say "Should we even prepare for something that may not happen for a good 3-400 years?


Once in a lifetime weather events are happening more and more often recently. It's well worth planning for them, even if it's just contingency planning.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
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Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 John Prins wrote:
There's no planning for once-in-a-lifetime weather events like this.

But putting 25% of your grid on wind power means those big events are going to hurt all the more, compared to coal/gas/nuke plants. Is it worth the cost to build backup capacity in case your renewables go down? Any government with a large % of wind/solar power is going to have to consider this going forward.


Most places take precautions to their energy infrastructure to protect it from cold weather. Texas did not, not with its green energy production and not with its thermal energy production. So both are failing.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

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Made in us
Potent Grey Knight Librarian





Fort Worth, TX

Checking in from Fort Worth, Texas.

We've been very fortunate in that our power has not gone out. On the other hand, we've got 9 members of the various in-laws packed into our house (making 11 of us in total), as their four houses are without power.
Monday we started losing water pressure, and later in the day we learned that the water treatment plant serving our area had lost power and we were under a boil water order. We filled a bathtub with water to use for refilling the toilet tanks (but no flushing unless you pooped), and filled some large pots with water to boil to have for washing and cleaning up. In-laws had brought about five cases of bottled water with them, so we were good for drinking water.
Tuesday morning, just when we thought to fill the second tub with water for that toilet, the water ran out completely. So, we filled that tub with snow.
Late Tuesday afternoon, water came back on, but still low pressure and still under a boil water order.
At the moment (Wednesday, almost noon), we're now back to full water pressure, but still under boil water order. More snow came during the night.
I feel like it'll be our turn any minute now to lose power to the rolling blackouts, but hopefully it will only be a couple hours when it happens. Maybe it won't happen at all, who knows?

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Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Wind turbines work in artic weather if they're made to. That's that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2021/02/16/why-wind-turbines-in-cold-climates-dont-freeze-de-icing-and-carbon-fiber/?sh=7995d60b1f59

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-16/sweden-shows-texas-how-to-keep-turbines-spinning-in-icy-weather

As to the argument that we shouldn't have to prepare for "once in a lifetime" things, we had one incident of a guy trying to blow up his shoes on a plane and for the rest of eternity americans will be taking of their shoes at airport check-ins.

Tanhauser42 hope you're ok.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/17 18:10:54


"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

That sounds really awful Tanhauser, but good to hear that it sounds like you being as organised as you can be and looking out for family - fingers crossed the weather gives you a break soon and they can start restoring power and basic amenities.

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Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






 A Town Called Malus wrote:


Most places take precautions to their energy infrastructure to protect it from cold weather. Texas did not, not with its green energy production and not with its thermal energy production. So both are failing.


I'm sure places that expect regular snowstorms take such precautions, but even those would have troubles if serious ice storms hit - Montreal was basically knocked out for weeks following an ice storm in 1998. This is a city that is as well prepared for bad weather as any place could be and it was down for weeks.


   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






In Maryland weve had once or twice in the past from a bad storm take power out completely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Matt Swain wrote:
Wind turbines work in artic weather if they're made to. That's that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2021/02/16/why-wind-turbines-in-cold-climates-dont-freeze-de-icing-and-carbon-fiber/?sh=7995d60b1f59

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-16/sweden-shows-texas-how-to-keep-turbines-spinning-in-icy-weather

As to the argument that we shouldn't have to prepare for "once in a lifetime" things, we had one incident of a guy trying to blow up his shoes on a plane and for the rest of eternity americans will be taking of their shoes at airport check-ins.

Tanhauser42 hope you're ok.


Shoe bomb is much different than once in a life time storm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/17 20:52:10


"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






The man difference is that the system can't use a snowstorm to justify expanding law enforcement powers and reducing privacy.

"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






IDK, a snow storm in Texas is far less likely than a shoe bomb or any sort of bomb on a plane. BTW this is far off topic in a thread about wishing fellow gamers luck in bad weather. Not mention but large swaths of the South are being forced to go into rolling black outs and are in roughly similar situations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/17 21:00:10


"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 BlackoCatto wrote:
IDK, a snow storm in Texas is far less likely than a shoe bomb or any sort of bomb on a plane. BTW this is far off topic in a thread about wishing fellow gamers luck in bad weather. Not mention but large swaths of the South are being forced to go into rolling black outs and are in roughly similar situations.


So far. We'll see how often this kind of thing happens going forwards.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






It doesnt matter, winterizing your grid should be a thing no matter what. Texas has gotten snow before, just not this bad.
But they dicided to go away from federal regulations because winterizing would cost money.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





 Pacific wrote:
Wow that's cold.. I'm amazed actually a lot more people haven't died.

I think, speaking from a country that doesn't get enough snow to be prepared and always gets brought to a standstill, it sounds like the biggest problem is people just aren't equipped for it, have thin-walled houses appropriate for the usual climate, and then are trying to fire up BBQs inside for heat etc.

What sounds like mismanagement of how the power grid has been set up as well, from what I have read.



This. When I was in UK as exchange student it amused me when all town went nuts when little snow fell. We were warned if snow gets any worse school day would be halted so we get home. For the record you could still see ground under the snow and fall wasn't even medium for finnish point of view...

...amusement turned into "ugh" when bus was going downhill on this super narrow road(if car comes from opposite direction bus would have to go to pedestrial road...that narrow) and I realized bus had had summer tyres...whoops!

That was only day it snowed there that year. And I gathered snow isn't that common there.

If you add to that actual SERIOUS snow...yeah it's going to be rough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Matt Swain wrote:


There are reports of some hotels drastically raising rates now that some people are seeking shelter from the cold.


Welcome to supply and demand. That's the logical result in capitalism world.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/18 09:07:31


2021 painted/bought: 497/417 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Genuine thoughts....

Here in the U.K., we’re used to cold weather, if not actual snow. As such, most people are equipped for it in the home. At the very least, we’ve got winter clothes (I’ve finally bought a winter coat this year.)

If it gets a bit Parkie, sling on a jumper before putting the heating on. If you’re sitting on the sofa, pop a blanket over your legs.

But....Texas? Possibly through my own ignorance, I suspect they get such hot weather most of the time, many folk won’t have jumpers or blankets, as they simply don’t need them.

It really puts the impact of their current weather’s impact into stark relief. Because they likely can’t just bundle up.

It’s kinda the reflection of Americans being amazed at how little air con there is in the U.K. - because frankly, we just don’t need it all that often. We only get a few weeks a year where it becomes unbearably hot - and even then mostly just in southern England where I am (when I nip up to Scotland to see my family, there can be a serious heatwave at home, but in the Borders I need a jumper).

Bit of a ramble.

Stay safe, folks.

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Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It doesnt matter, winterizing your grid should be a thing no matter what. Texas has gotten snow before, just not this bad.
But they decided to go away from federal regulations because winterizing would cost money.


In this situation it wouldn't matter much either way, especially with the severity and the cost in need of supply the state for an event that doesn't happen barely at all in the state if at all. Case in point with the many black outs in California that happened over last Summer, in a state that should be prepared for it entirely

Also note, part of the Pacific Northwest also have no power.

"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Checking in from Fort Worth, Texas.

We've been very fortunate in that our power has not gone out. On the other hand, we've got 9 members of the various in-laws packed into our house (making 11 of us in total), as their four houses are without power.
Monday we started losing water pressure, and later in the day we learned that the water treatment plant serving our area had lost power and we were under a boil water order. We filled a bathtub with water to use for refilling the toilet tanks (but no flushing unless you pooped), and filled some large pots with water to boil to have for washing and cleaning up. In-laws had brought about five cases of bottled water with them, so we were good for drinking water.
Tuesday morning, just when we thought to fill the second tub with water for that toilet, the water ran out completely. So, we filled that tub with snow.
Late Tuesday afternoon, water came back on, but still low pressure and still under a boil water order.
At the moment (Wednesday, almost noon), we're now back to full water pressure, but still under boil water order. More snow came during the night.
I feel like it'll be our turn any minute now to lose power to the rolling blackouts, but hopefully it will only be a couple hours when it happens. Maybe it won't happen at all, who knows?



Fingers crossed for you/yours fella..

Wrap up and stay safe.


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Made in gb
[DCM]
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Preparing for all kinds of scenarios is pretty standard for most power production, regardless of it's form. So, for the blackouts to be going on for this long that shows a fundamental failure of those industries.

I work in the utilities/power industry (primarily nuclear but also some fossil fuel and renewables) - the industry itself is very heavily regulated and on top of that there are internal controls that have to be able to predict and then cater for circumstances occurring, whatever form they might take. So you have 1/10,000 events (freak meteorological conditions, earthquakes of varying magnitudes) right through to 1/100,000 or even 1/1,000,000 events. This is why reactor buildings are designed and built to be able to withstand a 747 crashing into them.
Fukushima highlighted what happened when you don't counter for these events; there was a commentary that the only way it could have been a worse set of circumstances was for Godzilla to have emerged from the water but really that's not the case; the subsequent investigations showed that really a quite predictable set of events (earthquake followed by massive tidal wave) - especially if you consider Japan's position on surrounding tectonic plates.
A lack of adequate oversight and regulation meant that the diesel back-up power for the Fukushima plant was just above sea level and allowed the incoming waves knocked them out.
The UK industry (and I think others around the world which didn't close down their industries entirely) spent 100s of millions on contingency measures - some of this includes design of brand new vehicles that can cross building wreckage - making sure that another Fukushima doesn't happen again, or if another set of horrendous natural disasters do occur then a reactor meltdown can be averted.

I know other fossil fuel and renewable energy sources don't have the resting state of instability of nuclear, but I can assure in the UK at least there is still a vast amount of regulation and contingency to make sure that the modes of production and relay via the grid can continue. Any power station, be it gas, oil or coal is an extremely complex piece of equipment and the interruption of production is costing money any time that it is functioning. Freak weather, even at an extreme, should have been prepared for and contingencies in place.

I have read that the nuclear stations in Texas have still been operating and providing power, so obviously they have been able to cope (I assume the localised push for deregulation hasn't been able to over-ride INPO or which ever other federal nuclear agencies impose oversight of nuclear power production), whereas a combination of the other fossil fuel and renewables production failing has lead to the shortfall.

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Master Tormentor






St. Louis

 BlackoCatto wrote:
IDK, a snow storm in Texas is far less likely than a shoe bomb or any sort of bomb on a plane. BTW this is far off topic in a thread about wishing fellow gamers luck in bad weather. Not mention but large swaths of the South are being forced to go into rolling black outs and are in roughly similar situations.

The last storm to knock out Texas' power grid was in 2011.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 John Prins wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:


Most places take precautions to their energy infrastructure to protect it from cold weather. Texas did not, not with its green energy production and not with its thermal energy production. So both are failing.


I'm sure places that expect regular snowstorms take such precautions, but even those would have troubles if serious ice storms hit - Montreal was basically knocked out for weeks following an ice storm in 1998. This is a city that is as well prepared for bad weather as any place could be and it was down for weeks.



Montreal was prepared for winter weather. Ice storms that far north were really, really rare until recently; it was more of a 'St. Louis' latitude problem than a 'Montreal' latitude problem. It's quite possible that the previous time Montreal had an ice storm was before electricity became widespread.

Of course, St. Louis had far less excuse for it's prolonged power outages in the early 2000s; two from big thunderstorms and one from (drum roll).... an ice storm!

I can't speak for Montreal, but the St. Louis problems were entirely self-inflicted. The power company got tired of people complaining about them 'trimming trees without the property owner's consent' - as if consent was needed for maintaining the right-of-way - so they just stopped trimming trees unless the property owner asked them to. Needless to say, most owners didn't notice the trees weren't being trimmed away from the power lines until big storms started knocking branches down INTO the power lines...

Which is a far different failure than failing to weatherproof your generation facilities, but a major failure notwithstanding.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






It would have been great if there was some sort of warning from climate scientists that extreme weather events like this could happen, so people and governments could prepare.
   
Made in ca
Master Tormentor






St. Louis

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It would have been great if there was some sort of warning from climate scientists that extreme weather events like this could happen, so people and governments could prepare.

I get this is sarcasm pointing at climate change being a thing, but there's a rather wonderful report in the aftermath of the 2011 storm that recommended winterization of power plants and related infrastructure (like natural gas pipelines) that failed during that storm. Texas decided that requiring that their utilities to follow the recommendations would be an undue burden on their businesses.
   
 
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