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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




At last the long awaited Orks 9th edition is out with the Beast Snagga box!
As we all know with every new edition there are changes that don't feel right or change how we have to play our army. This Ork's edition left me feeling Empty, and sad to go to battle with my friends again.
Why? What could they have done that is so bad you ask?
Its not point increases, or changes to number of models in a unit. In fact, I'm very happy in this regard. There is even an entire new weapon type "Dakka" which does need some clarification on how it works! Does it play like an assault, heavy, or pistol weapon?

But there is just something missing, from every single unit, every single datasheet!
"DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!"
Its GONE!
how could they!

All Ork players instinctively count up their 6 rolls and grab more dice to roll for DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!. It pumps life and fun into the game, It gives a bit of unpredictability, a cornerstone of the Orks. If we wanted boring repeatable battles we would play space marines! Now our army just has rapid fire weapons that don't work right.

I think at the end of the game, with these new DAKKA! weapons you will end up with more shots fired than with DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!. I have to ask though, Is it worth it?

RIP DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I thought the old DDD was fun and very characterful, sad to see it go and be replaced by something with absolutely no variance. I do have to say however that the new Dakka weapon rule does not need clarification. It doesn't share any rules with assault, heavy, or pistol weapons.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Does that mean Dakka weapons can be fired in melee combat as well? Can I advance and shoot them too? what are the restrictions?
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




To do either of the things a weapon has to be assault or a pistol. dakka weapons are neither. So you can't do those things, unless the weapon has a pistol or assault trait at the same time.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Eighty7_Octane wrote:
Does that mean Dakka weapons can be fired in melee combat as well? Can I advance and shoot them too? what are the restrictions?


In both cases, if the weapon type doesn't explicitly state you can, you can't, as that's the default position when it comes to shooting.

2021 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My [url=https://pileofpotential.com/dysartes]Pile of Potential[/url - updates ongoing...

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 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Eighty7_Octane wrote:
At last the long awaited Orks 9th edition is out with the Beast Snagga box!
As we all know with every new edition there are changes that don't feel right or change how we have to play our army. This Ork's edition left me feeling Empty, and sad to go to battle with my friends again.
Why? What could they have done that is so bad you ask?
Its not point increases, or changes to number of models in a unit. In fact, I'm very happy in this regard. There is even an entire new weapon type "Dakka" which does need some clarification on how it works! Does it play like an assault, heavy, or pistol weapon?

But there is just something missing, from every single unit, every single datasheet!
"DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!"
Its GONE!
how could they!

All Ork players instinctively count up their 6 rolls and grab more dice to roll for DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!. It pumps life and fun into the game, It gives a bit of unpredictability, a cornerstone of the Orks. If we wanted boring repeatable battles we would play space marines! Now our army just has rapid fire weapons that don't work right.

I think at the end of the game, with these new DAKKA! weapons you will end up with more shots fired than with DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!. I have to ask though, Is it worth it?

RIP DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!


Yes. My brothers deathskulls msu orks with dakka dakka dakka added so much time to games with rerolls, mostly because he's a weirdo 6 magnet.

I don't like the new weapon type, but D^3 did need to go as well imo. Don't have a better fix necessarily though, I'd accept additional hit on 6s and a price adjust.
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






I am happy they finally took some units with poor number of shots and gave them a much needed boost like Burnaboyz and Lootas but I do lament the lack of DDD on 6s. It was a mechanic I always enjoyed even if it rarely paid dividends for me.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Using Dakka Dakka Dakka was one of the most effective methods of slowplaying in the game. Orkz almost singlehandedly forced a number of competitive events to start using chess clocks.

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Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Very glad to see it gone.
Roll, reroll 1s, count the 6s, take that number of dices, roll, reroll 1s, count the hits -> Roll, reroll 1s, count the hits. Much better.
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen

I totally see why they removed it to make the game faster.

I just don't understand why they added Blade Artists then.

Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





The Dakka weapon type is silly, but good riddance to the admin of Dakka Dakka Dakka. A good change.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

Dakka weapons are the replacement to Dakka! Dakka! Dakka! rule. It is a time saving rule, which are very common in the 9th edition codexes. Instead of rolling, counting, and rolling again, they just gave Orks more attacks when close to the target to reflect the hail of bullets. I expect they found both an additional hit on unmodified 6s and Rapid Fire as too big an improvement to the old rule, so came up with this one. The only thing they seem to have forgotten is most of the newly Dakka weapons used to be Assault weapons. Then again, maybe they decided to save time by not having hordes of Orks rolling to hit with BS 5+ and a -1 to hit.
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Not only they removed DDD but also pretty much every source of re-rolls. Bad moons trait, Badrukk aura, tankbustas re-rolls against vehicles, grots' subkultur trait, deathskulls stratagem etc... all gone. I don't think orks can re-roll hits/wounds somehow now, other than using Ghaz's aura.

They increased the number of shots of a lot of stuff to compensate that though, sometimes even the damage characteristic and/or the AP.


 
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






You are acting like DDD was in the rules before 8th edition Orks....

DDD was a mess and contributed to a ridiculous amount of re-rolling. In addition, a faction that isn't relying on re-rolls of some sort? Now that is refreshing. You get to roll a hell of a lot of dice still for the army, you are not losing out on anything.

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Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

They changed Dakka Dakka Dakka to speed up the game, frontloading it into the number of dice you pick up to roll the first time around drastically speeds up the game vs fishing for 6s and adding more dice into the thing.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
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Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I am happy they finally took some units with poor number of shots and gave them a much needed boost like Burnaboyz and Lootas but I do lament the lack of DDD on 6s. It was a mechanic I always enjoyed even if it rarely paid dividends for me.


I agree with the majority here for the most part. DDD slowed the game down and added very little value beyond the occasional Rokkit shot and those even rarer instances where a Smasha gun fired 3 shots and ended with 6 hits.

The only problems I see with the new Dakka weapon replacement is

1: Its not assault, they gave orkz a crappier version of salvo weapons. The problem being that most weapons don't benefit from it at all, and the couple that do don't make up for the problem. I have run the numbers for people a number of times, the gist is Shoota boyz just got worse at shooting at mid-long range and got better at 9' or less. How often are shoota boyz getting 9 or less from an enemy and WANTING to shoot the target? Burna boyz got an upgrade, but they also nerfed their CC profile so its a mixed bag there. Lootas....christ lootas. A Loota now averages the same # of shots as a Auto-cannon Havoc. The difference is the Havoc hits on 3s the Loota hits on 5s. 3 lootas average 2 hits. 2 Havocs average 2.66 hits, The havoc also boasts that 3+ save and will likely be getting a 2nd (T5) wound when Chaos gets updated. Lootas and most "Dakka" weapons should have gotten probably 33-50% more shots. A Lootas instead of getting dakka 3(2) should have gotten 4(3). The shoota boyz? same profile 4(3).

2: How it synergizes with the rest of the codex. Orkz just got beaten to death with Morale for large units, and now Shoota boyz are less effective at range, meaning by the time they can actually benefit from there new dakka weapons they will be so depleted that they won't even have enough left to make an impact.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




All Ork players instinctively count up their 6 rolls and grab more dice to roll for DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!. It pumps life and fun into the game, It gives a bit of unpredictability, a cornerstone of the Orks. If we wanted boring repeatable battles we would play space marines!

Meh. It was a very late and weird addition to the army that didn't fix any of its core problem.

The only thing orky about it was the word 'dakka.' As with all reroll and fishing-for-sixes abilities, it mostly just wasted time.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






SemperMortis wrote:
A Loota now averages the same # of shots as a Auto-cannon Havoc. The difference is the Havoc hits on 3s the Loota hits on 5s. 3 lootas average 2 hits. 2 Havocs average 2.66 hits, The havoc also boasts that 3+ save and will likely be getting a 2nd (T5) wound when Chaos gets updated. Lootas and most "Dakka" weapons should have gotten probably 33-50% more shots. A Lootas instead of getting dakka 3(2) should have gotten 4(3). The shoota boyz? same profile 4(3).

Sure, I'd love to have 4/+3 on Lootas and Shoota boyz. But 3/+2 is still a flat upgrade from d3 Deffgun shots any day of the week.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

DDD was a tedious time sink that didn't really add anything to the game. It's just RNG on top of RNG.
Dakka type weapons are a better concept, but the execution could use some work.

Deff guns being Dakka, for example, is just silly. Why would you want to get within 24" with your lootas and potentially expose them to enemy fire?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 23:13:42


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Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




It didn't all streamline and make the game faster Did you see new Bad moons clan skill?

"each time a model with this Kultur makes a ranged attack, on an un modified wound roll of 6, improve the armor penetration characteristic of that attack by 1."

now your opponent has to resolve 2 separate weapon profiles from the same gun!
At least DDD, you did all the work and your opponent just watched in horror.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Eighty7_Octane wrote:
It didn't all streamline and make the game faster Did you see new Bad moons clan skill?

"each time a model with this Kultur makes a ranged attack, on an un modified wound roll of 6, improve the armor penetration characteristic of that attack by 1."

now your opponent has to resolve 2 separate weapon profiles from the same gun!
At least DDD, you did all the work and your opponent just watched in horror.

There's a difference between dealing with a clan trait that may not be present and dealing with a rule that all orks have.
That trait is still faster to resolve than DDD anyway.

New Badmoons trait - roll to hit, roll to wound, find 6s, opponent rolls for saves using different colored dice for each 6.
DDD - Roll to hit, find DDD procs, roll to hit again, roll to wound, opponent rolls for saves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 00:19:04


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






Was DDD really that much effort? Shoot guns, add some more dice because you rolled 6s. It wasn't a herculean task or anything.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Was DDD really that much effort? Shoot guns, add some more dice because you rolled 6s. It wasn't a herculean task or anything.

It slowed things down. You're already rolling a lot of dice, and then you roll even more dice, which may be affected by rerolls.
Games in 8th ed already took a while, and it took even longer when it came to orks.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

Once per game? No. Once per phase, probably not. Every single time a unit in your army fires a weapon? Absolutely, yes.

You have to analyze the impact of the rule in totality and not just as an isolated event.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





There's a reason exploding hits for other factions usually auto-hit.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Tallarook, Victoria, Australia

Rokkits and KMB's basically doubled their damage output on average. Firing at units of 6 or more triple the damage output

Huge buff

Living in a world of make believe
I can hide behind what's real 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 GoldenHorde wrote:
Rokkits and KMB's basically doubled their damage output on average. Firing at units of 6 or more triple the damage output

Huge buff


Rokkits didn't on infantries though since they're now heavy and platform will likely move before firing. Not to mention that the typical source of rokkits lost the full re-roll to hit against vehicles as well and the chance of getting exploding 5s, while also bomb squigs have been nerfed severely. On vehicles sure, they definitely doubled their damage output.


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Maybe GW doesn't want people to play their armies with a horde of boys, but with a horde of vehicles.

True or not, it would create a nice buyer loop. New boys come out, new players buy boys. Boys less efficient, then vehicles, so people with new armies have to buy vehicles. And for a lot between being able to do both things, there is enough time passed to add new stuff obligatory to the army, through new models or FAQs/CA.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Karol wrote:
Maybe GW doesn't want people to play their armies with a horde of boys, but with a horde of vehicles.

True or not, it would create a nice buyer loop. New boys come out, new players buy boys. Boys less efficient, then vehicles, so people with new armies have to buy vehicles. And for a lot between being able to do both things, there is enough time passed to add new stuff obligatory to the army, through new models or FAQs/CA.


Yes, yes, Karol go, soar on those wings you beatiful angel.

"GW made boyz worse on purpose to sell more of the new boyz kit" is one of my new favorite prongs of the beautiful GW conspiracy power fixing sales narrative.

Tell me: How does giving the new mega-armored warboss model fixed weaponry that is incompatible with all the relics fit into this, tell me? How does that super-secret 9 billion-d chessfully push sales of that new model?

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






to me DDD will not be missed, I would prefer that most reroll mechanics were removed from the game and they were more of a limited to a few units per book. the bigger breakign to me is the dakka weapons not being by default assault as that has been a key aspect to ork armies since i started playing in 4th

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