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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






How do!

So here’s something that’s been rattling around my head for a fair old while. To set the theme and the scene, what I’m aiming to do here is delve into my (growing) resource of Codexes from older editions. And here, specifically 2nd Edition. That’s the one I cut my teeth on, and asides from often being messy and crazy, it was a helluva lot of fun.

What I’m intending to do is a number of things. First, I’ll be talking you lovely folks through the options open to a 2nd Edition Eldar player. And using the relevant codex, providing a proposed list which, in due course, I’ll build up, and who knows maybe even actually paint (do not hold your breath though).

That in itself I think may be of interest to those who missed that edition, especially if I give loose descriptions of what was scary and why.

Then, once it’s out and I’ve bought a copy, the Temporal Tactical Transposition can begin. By that, I mean taking the same force assembled using, and for use with, the 2nd Ed Codex and porting it over to 9th Edition, without adding any new units. Thankfully for Eldar, that’s really genuinely not ruling out an awful lot.

So, to kick off and gauge interest (because I can see this concept being either really interesting or terminally boring), let’s talk through all the unit options open to me within the 2nd Codex, yeah? Because it’s from there that shall begin. I’ll waffle on about how to make an army.

Let us begin!

Characters

0-1 Avatar
0-1 Farseer
Exarchs (yup, bought independently of the squad, with no requirement to match them to a Squad taken elsewhere)
Warlocks. Three flavours here, as was the fashion. Warlock, Champion, Master
Exodite Lords. Three flavours. Champion, Hero, Mighty Hero
Pirate Captain. Arrr! Three flavours again. Champion, Hero, Mighty Hero

Plus Eldrad and the Phoenix Lords

Squads

Guardian Squads. Single entry covers what we’d now call Storm and Defender. They can also be bought Jetbikes. So three modern units in one slot.
Dire Avenger Squads
Dark Reaper Squads
Swooping Hawk Squads
Howling Banshee Squads
Shining Spear Squads
Striking Scorpion Squads
Warp Spider Squads
Eldar Scouts
Wraithguard
Exodite Dragon Knights (no. Really!)
Eldar Pirates. Arrrr!

Support

Dreadnought. Aka Wraithlord
Lascannon on Anti-Grav Platform
Scatter Laser on Anti-Grav Platform
Heavy Plasma Gun on Anti-Grav Platform
Distort Cannon on Anti-Grav Platform
Vibro-Cannon on Anti-Grav Platform
War Walker
Jetbike
Vyper Jetbike

And for a pure Craftworld list, that’s me pool of choices. The Codex does include rules for Harlequins, but those are Allied in. And frankly sod painting those.

Now, how do I go about selecting an army? Well, as pretty much forever you start with a points limit. 2,000 always sounds about right to me. To spend them? Up to 50% can be spent on Characters. At Least 25% must be spent on Squads. Up to 50% can be spent on Support. Up to 50% can spent on Harlequins, but sod painting those. (Option also exists for 100% spent on Harlequins).

So, now is the time for me to wander off for a bit, and start imagining what I want the army to look like, and start spending them points!

But before I go…you’ll notice there is of course no Autarch. At all. Well, dear reader, there are ways and means around that. But that’s for a later post. Possibly typed on a keyboard because this amount of mince on a touch screen is a drag.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 17:15:29


   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Pure codex, or willing to take things like the Falcon, which had a 2nd ed datacard?

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Just the Codex for now as it’s what I’ve got to hand. As my collection of materials grow I’ll add in the others, which if loose memory serves was just the Falcon and Fireprism?

If anyone else has a 2nd Ed Eldar Codex and wants to chip or join in, you’re very welcome!

Also, a lot of “Hero Hammer” came from Wargear Cards. As I’m yet to grab the main box and Dark Millenium, I’m again restricted to the few within the Codex.

   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

You didn’t list the phoenix lords and eldrad. They are in the codex. Fair game?

Also any practical considerations like sticking to things you can get in plastic now?

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I did completely forgot the named characters! Nadgers.

Reason being, fact fans, is that named characters are a separate section.

But yeah, you’ve basically got Eldrad and the Phoenix Lords. Which is also a cracking band name.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Models wise? Anything goes.

Whilst I won’t be buying anything I know to be being replaced in the coming months, because if I can avoid Finecast, I will avoid Finecast.

However…..Warp Spooders are in my cart, for my sins.

Why Doc? WHY? They’re nearly as old and knackered looking as you are, I hear you cry.

Because in 2nd Edition, Warp Spiders made your opponent cry, is the short and entirely factually accurate answer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 17:05:42


   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

This is a nice idea for a thread, MDG

From memory, for some good 2nd-ed flavour I would go for.
- Swooping Hawks. It was fun doing their special action of flying over the enemy dropping bombs on them.
- Distort Cannon - for the hilarious damage chart.

For a close combat unit, I think most used to go with Banshees over Scorpions because you were much more likely to come across marine players as opponents. Their ability to come in and strike first with the banshee mask, then their power swords which would cut through power armour, meant you would mince most stuff if you could charge in first.

IIRC Scorpions were better against horde armies; Imperial Guard and Orks, where the mandiblasters could take down lesser-armour opponents, and if they ganged up on you with fists and knife hits, the better armour gave them more survivability. Bashees would utterly cream one or two enemies, then it would be third or fourth imperial guardsman that dragged them to the ground (with their 5+ save)!

Jetbike squads were really good for getting behind enemy lines - they were a lot more survivable than in later editions, as they had a damage chart. And even if they did die they would usually do something entertaining like going flying off in a random direction and hitting a tree!

Think psychic powers were very effective too (perhaps something for when you get hold of Dark Millenium) - from memory, they could buff your troops or reduce effectiveness of the enemy: something like 'Doom' (which would make them re-roll saves I think?) or 'fortune' - your Dark Reapers in hard cover at the back of your table edge suddenly become super difficult to kill.

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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Jetbikes are definitely in, and will probably be upgraded to Shrieker Jetbikes, because nimble heavy firepower is a winner.

No Jetbike characters though, on account the bike becomes a bomb you’re riding on!

Wraithguard and a Dreadnought are in the Cart, as are a pair of D-Cannon.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will be adding foot Guardians, but I’m waiting for that tasty new boxed set first.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 17:38:20


   
Made in us
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms






Chino Hills, CA

Having recently played a few 1500 point games of 2nd with my gaming group, I'm excited to see where this goes.

I'm nearly done painting my 2nd ed. Bad Moons (just need to finish some snotlings and a traktor kannon), I might go through Codex Orks and see how big my army might be (less than 2,000 most likely though).


Some people play to win, some people play for fun. Me? I play to kill toy soldiers.
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WHFB, AoS, 40k, WM/H, Starship Troopers Miniatures, FoW

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






One thing I have now clocked (look, I’m well rusty, ok!) is that Guardian Jetbikes, in terms of points allocation come from both Squads and Support Allowance.

The Jetbikes and Shuriken Cannon are deduct from the max 50% Support allocation. But the riders come from the Squads allocation.

Something I’ll need to watch for! Likewise the Exodite and Pirate champions can’t be fielded on their own. Rather they’re upgrades for the relevant Squad, which comes out of the Characters max allocation.

Hmmm….

   
Made in pt
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Exalted thread. Will follow... Ah, that blue cover.

And yes, warp spiders with overlapping flamer templates were death on a stick.

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






A poopy stick, jabbed into the eye at that!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK. I’ve had a browse on GW’s website, and have bunged some bits in the basket. I have not yet checked out, because I’ll see if I can get most if not all at a discount elsewhere. GW’s website is just nicely laid out for this purpose.

So far….

2 x Boxes of Dire Avengers. Those will give me two squads of 4 Dire Avengers, and 2 Exarchs.

The squads come in at 88 points each.

The Exarchs? Well…base cost is 50 points. But I’ll need to consider how I want to arm them, as it’s not as restricted as nowadays. Also they can be given Exarch power.

2 x 3 Jetbikes.

Now, base cost for the riders? 66 points. Their rides are 20 points each, and one in 3 can have Shuriken Cannon instead for 25 points. I’ll max that out, because why wouldn’t I. So coming out my Support are 140 points.

Warp Spiders x 1. Again a 4 strong Squad, and one Exarch.

Squad is 164 (and every point a bargain!). Exarch starts at 50.

Wraithguard x 1. 175. These things are ace and deadly and theoretically potentially invincible. This comes out of Squads.

Wraithlord? 160 base. But I can give it a Heavy Weapon. I feel I’m lacking long ranged oomph, so I’ll go with a trusty Lascannon. Now, that’s 30 on its own, or 45 if I don’t want to replace one of the Wraithlord’s arm. Let’s go baller and make it 205 points, coming out my Support.

2 x Distort Cannon. Nice and easy, 55 points each.

2 x War Walkers. Weapons to be determined….


And that’s it for now. Points cost can be deceptive as I’m yet to decide how I want to arm and upgrade the Exarchs, which can quickly devour my available points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 18:04:30


   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Keep in mind if you want to have this army duel function for both 2nd and 9th it needs to follow the army construction rules for both sides.

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I’ll worry about that later

Indeed, the transposition itself should prove quite interesting. Not just to compare how points and therefore army sizes have shifted over the years, but army organisation.

I will need further Characters for sure. Avatar is going in (300 points in 2nd Ed), but I’m awaiting that gorgeous new model. And probably a Farseer on foot. But right now they’re sold out, unless I get lucky at my local store.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 18:13:13


   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Ah, the old BA vs Eldar battle report. Could be a good starting point.
[Thumb - old eldar.jpg]

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I think that might be from the tail end of 1st Ed? I say that due to the Guardian Standard Bearer, which doesn’t appear in the Codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A thought occurs as something I’ve not considered.

Some fair folk who missed 2nd Ed might be wondering “but what about choice of Craftworld?”. And that’s a good question.

Simply put, in 2nd Ed there were no benefits to picking a particular Craftworld. They were just suggested paint schemes and background.

If you refer back the first post, you’ll see Army Organisation was somewhat loose. You could go Wraith, Jetbike, Guardian, Aspect etc heavy as it was.

And so I’m largely undecided on which Craftworld I might adopt. Guess I’ll make that decision once I’ve settled on a list, and applying some Modern Knowledge.

Or I’ll just invent one. That works too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 18:57:10


   
Made in pt
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Definitely build the wraith lord with the weapon in addition to the two arms.

I always wanted wraith guard, but couldn't afford them at the time (well, for about 10 years I guess) and after that I started collecting other armies. I got an airbrush last year, and maybe in future I can get a set - looking forward to seeing what you do with yours.

BTW what are your plans with guardians? I always took a relatively big unit of storm guardians, still have them and many have hand crossbow pistols. And a bigger unit or two of regular guardians. The storm guardians never did well, but still. I guess there will be new guardian models, so maybe best to wait on those, but any idea about squads?

Oh and a friend of mine used to rip me up with two war walkers. He ran scatter lasers and shrunken cannons iirc... he would run his guardians with weapons platforms with lascannons iirc. Dude beat me every time.




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 22:03:50


   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Plans?

Plans???

I’m happy to admit I’m making this up as I go along!

   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Some backwater sump

How about twin scatter lasers on the war walkers? I seem to remember them being nasty.

New Career Time? 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






As my “really not thought this through” list goes, I might go Scatter Laser and Heavy Plasma Cannon.

Make them kinda threatening to everything, without them being a particular threat to any one thing in particular.

I do however remain open to twinned weapons.

   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





Playing 2nd ed Eldar without the Avatar and some Harlequins is not playing 2nd ed at all You want those 2nd ed Kisses.

Also, you can take this very fresh opportunity and play some Pirates/Corsairs without too many houserules.

And from my experience, while Wraithguards sound awesome, what they did was group around their fallen commerades, waiting for them to get up, as you couldn't break squad coherency. With 16" guns thats all they could usually do.

   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

You can’t have more distort cannon platforms (or grav platforms in general) than guardian squads

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Just to be clear, you're aware you MUST take either a farseer or Avatar as the army commander? That's going to be a large chunk of your points before you build the rest of the army.


I would suggest also taking a squad of reapers and maugan ra.

He's T6(!) and the maugetar is a nasty ranged and melee weapon. In fact, of the 7 eldar special characters, 3 of them are T6 (Eldrad, Maugan and Karandras). That's tougher than space marine characters of the same era.

Reapers had missile launchers that ignored modifiers to hit, so krak or frag all the way. But you can take melta, anti plant or plasma missiles for extra 5pts each. I'd go with plasma for those semi permanent templates.

For exarch shenanigans I'd go with a warp jump generator and two death spinners. Heavy flamer templates are ~15" long iirc. I'd give him the exarch powers Fast Shot (double shooting with his twin death spinners) and Tough, for T5.



2nd ed eldar were IMO still the best representation of the army - running units were -1 to hit, their guns were brutal and the exarchs were capable of beating marine captains in hth.



   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






They were also well beardy!

But right now, I’m limiting my choices (for reasons best known to myself, and even then I think I’m a dill weed) to what I can order now and receive in a couple of days.

Avatar absolutely will feature. But I’m awaiting that gorgeous new model.

Everything else is entirely down to my whimsy of the moment.

I probably should’ve said this next bit earlier……

I’m really not trying to make a point or convey a message. I’m genuinely just messing around. To some extent, there is a Hobby Catharsis element. Big grown responsible and pretty well paid me, doing what horrible stinky idiot spotty with no money to speak of me couldn’t.

Folks, please don’t expect me to draw any kind of conclusion here. This is purely an exercise.

Yes. Whatever army list I settle on will be bought. No it almost certainly won’t get painted. Though Eldar schemes can lend themselves to airbrushing and that.

This is all purely experimental. Limit myself solely to 2nd Ed Options. Disregard what might’ve been super points efficient. Just go with whatever I fancy. Then. When the new Codex arrives, transpose that force, as best I can, to that new regime.

This is just meant to be a bit of fun


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK.

Bullet bitten. Listed units above on order with Element (other online retailers are available).

Whilst not a 2nd Ed legal army, I should have plenty to be going on with!

Mods, if this turns more into a hobby log post, I apologise!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 23:36:28


   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





 Hellebore wrote:

I would suggest also taking a squad of reapers and maugan ra.

He's T6(!) and the maugetar is a nasty ranged and melee weapon.

[...]

For exarch shenanigans I'd go with a warp jump generator and two death spinners. Heavy flamer templates are ~15" long iirc. I'd give him the exarch powers Fast Shot (double shooting with his twin death spinners) and Tough, for T5.



Maugan is a must for his freedom of target choice.

But twin death spinners actually were just an aesthetic feature and exarch still had just a single heavy flamer template, which then he could use twice with Fast Shot. This has been officially FAQed.

   
Made in pt
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Eldar were my first army and started around ‘92 iirc. A lot is coming back in the discussion. Looking forward to looking back with ya Grotsnik!

   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





This is a great idea for a thread.

And I would totally by an album by Eldrad and the Phoenix Lords. Since it's second ed, I'd buy it on vinyl; I even have a working direct drive turntable that was made in '77.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I’ve been having a think about how I might get closest to fielding an Autarch.

My initial thought was a High Level Pirate Captain. He’s got the stats and wargear options. But, I can only field one as a Pirate Squad leader, and he cannot leave that squad.

So I’m down to an Exarch. Now here I might get some mileage. As well as Exarch Powers, that model can of course select Exarch Equipment. There are a few options there, but he can only have one. However, some of the Wargear Cards in the Codex are Phoenix Lord toys - but not limited to Phoenix Lords (though if I field a Phoenix Lord, they come with that equipment, preventing anyone else taking it.

I also have a bunch of options for more run of the mill weapons, including Meltagun, Flamer, Shuriken Catapult and CCW etc.

So….I should be able to get kinda close.

   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







So... is it possible to find netlists for 2nd?

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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I mean, probably! There are certainly groups dedicated to that era, so I imagine there’ll be some form of netlist out there.

And in other news, I’ll soon be able to do a proper, full on army list. Managed to bag both the core game box and Dark Millennium on eBay for an entirely reasonable price.

Wargear and Vehicle Cards AHOY!

   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Cryonicleech wrote:Having recently played a few 1500 point games of 2nd with my gaming group, I'm excited to see where this goes.

I'm nearly done painting my 2nd ed. Bad Moons (just need to finish some snotlings and a traktor kannon), I might go through Codex Orks and see how big my army might be (less than 2,000 most likely though).



Do you mind me asking do you have a blog or photos of the army? What minis have you used for the Bad Moons?

The Power Cosmic wrote:How about twin scatter lasers on the war walkers? I seem to remember them being nasty.


I used to love the old War Walker miniature, you just have the guy stuck on the front of it "LOL SHIELD"

Hellebore wrote:
Reapers had missile launchers that ignored modifiers to hit, so krak or frag all the way. But you can take melta, anti plant or plasma missiles for extra 5pts each. I'd go with plasma for those semi permanent templates.


I had forgotten about anti-plant! Bunch of approaching enemy using a forest for cover, then suddenly...

lord_blackfang wrote:So... is it possible to find netlists for 2nd?


There is a fairly active FB group for 2nd edition only, although it seems to be mostly about battle reports, people showing their minis and trying to find specific stuff.

What is also fairly surprising (although perhaps shouldn't be) is that there are a lot of people these days using the 2nd edition ruleset but with new miniature ranges. I suppose you can have a tactical, meaningful game with a pretty small miniature count.

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