Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

shealyr wrote:

EDIT: Apparently, myself and Alpharius had the same idea at the same time

Good call - you're quite the smart individual!

I think what it really comes down to is people forgetting about Dante.

I certainly remember a lot of people going apoplectic when his special rules were revealed!

Yeah, I know I wasn't best impressed by them. To say the least, I think AgeofEgos but a good - but more importantly witty - summary of it.

Ultimately though, despite being GW and their reputation, we have no reason to believe a Vanus will be in the Codex or that after Dante's deserved reception there'll be a similar rule again...

Is there any indication of them stopping the rediculous rules though? Every codex gets one or two units/special rules that just make you turn your head and wonder... wtf GW?

Ever since IG, it's been something in every book. Yeah, model company has got to sell models, so I understand why they do it.

All I'm saying is this:

A rule being crazy/stupid/overpowered will not keep it out of a codex.

Agreed, I mean, it attracts buyers to that unit, something GW wants, and often times gets...

Gah, any new rumors yet? Want some about the AAGK/PAGK...

I could see a Vanus with rules similar to the Changelling and Callidus:

At the beginning of the game, before rolling to seize the initiative, an enemy unit takes a Ld test. If failed, they must conduct a round of shooting at a friendly target of the Vanus' choice. Vehicles count as Ld 9. If the test is passed, you may select another unit, and so on, until one unit fails or you run out of enemy units.

Basically it would allow you to do some horrific damage first turn, but only with a little luck. Bad luck and you would do nothing, and mediocre luck might have a unit you are not terribly interested in shooting something. Depending on price, you might say that so long as he is on the table he gets to force a roll at the beginning of the turn (but only one, and only in LOS) but that might be hard to price.

As for Assassin McPoison, giving him a poison grenade launcher, with various ammo types that give different status effects might be neat. Neat, but not particularly in line with the assassin part.

I don't see why it needs all these new rules. Why not do things which would help the GK army using existing rules for other units? Limited as it is now (and as it will be).

Most I can see if the ability to redeploy a certain number of units before the game begins and perhaps some sort of bonus to bringing on your own units from reserves or a penalty to your enemy's own reserve rolls (whether rerolling successful checks or modifiers i don't know).

And in any case, why would I spend 150pts on this 'Vanus' attempting to take out an enemies HQ when I could for example pay 110pts for a model which does this much more effectively than most: Vindicare.

I honestly don't see any place for it in the GK army. Inquisitor henchmen should be able to do 1/2 the things he does anyway.

Next thing we'll see the 'Financius' in the GK Army Book entries, an assassin specializing in finance who is able to audit the opponent's list and check for inconsistencies and maximize the economy of your own list.



FEAR THE FINANCIUS!

I'd like to be given the ability to have a variety of assassins, each having their own pros and cons to them, and the four we have now seems plenty enough if they get revamped.

Some of the rules rumours for GK have erked me somewhat and I am hoping that they are a case of over exaggerated rumours and not fact. I think the rumour of the two walkers, one with dual heavy weapons and DCCWs and the other walker bearing a turbo boosting jump pack, is especially worrying (what’s with Matt Wards obsession with flying dreadnaughts???).

Hopefully Matt Ward’s inspiration for the GK codex wasn’t an over the top 80’s Action movie/Chuck Norris movie like the BA codex.

Financius Assassin- allows your army to be 10% over the points limit, and subtracts d6% of your opponent's force- they must be removed immediately.

Flying dreadnought? I'd buy it.

Ehsteve wrote:I don't see why it needs all these new rules. Why not do things which would help the GK army using existing rules for other units? Limited as it is now (and as it will be).

Most I can see if the ability to redeploy a certain number of units before the game begins and perhaps some sort of bonus to bringing on your own units from reserves or a penalty to your enemy's own reserve rolls (whether rerolling successful checks or modifiers i don't know).

And in any case, why would I spend 150pts on this 'Vanus' attempting to take out an enemies HQ when I could for example pay 110pts for a model which does this much more effectively than most: Vindicare.

I honestly don't see any place for it in the GK army. Inquisitor henchmen should be able to do 1/2 the things he does anyway.

Next thing we'll see the 'Financius' in the GK Army Book entries, an assassin specializing in finance who is able to audit the opponent's list and check for inconsistencies and maximize the economy of your own list.

FEAR THE FINANCIUS!

The 150 points figure was just a random number I picked out the air for use an example. Had I have said 25 points would that have interested you more? What price would you guys pay for a unit with these 'rules' ?

The Decapitator wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:I don't see why it needs all these new rules. Why not do things which would help the GK army using existing rules for other units? Limited as it is now (and as it will be).

Most I can see if the ability to redeploy a certain number of units before the game begins and perhaps some sort of bonus to bringing on your own units from reserves or a penalty to your enemy's own reserve rolls (whether rerolling successful checks or modifiers i don't know).

And in any case, why would I spend 150pts on this 'Vanus' attempting to take out an enemies HQ when I could for example pay 110pts for a model which does this much more effectively than most: Vindicare.

I honestly don't see any place for it in the GK army. Inquisitor henchmen should be able to do 1/2 the things he does anyway.

Next thing we'll see the 'Financius' in the GK Army Book entries, an assassin specializing in finance who is able to audit the opponent's list and check for inconsistencies and maximize the economy of your own list.

FEAR THE FINANCIUS!

The 150 points figure was just a random number I picked out the air for use an example. Had I have said 25 points would that have interested you more? What price would you guys pay for a unit with these 'rules' ?

Well we're talking about a rule which removes models on a 6 which can be equated to current psychic powers or equipment (Jaws of the Wolf World, Shokk Attack Gun etc). This does not require a test of any kind to initiate, has only a 1/6 chance of succeeding and has no presence as a model on the table and as such, is nothing more than an army special rule if you think about it.

To be honest I wouldn't pay anything more than 75pts or 50pts depending on the full rules for the model, and even then I most likely wouldn't take it since I rarely play an actual inquisitor and just Grey Knights and doesn't fit with the whole flavour of the 'clense and purity'. That's just me, and even then, if this ever came to light (not that I expect it ever will but then again we have giant wolf riders) I would expect it to only be able to be taken with an inquisitor.

If it ever did come as a model, it would most likely be an upgraded henchman for the inquisitor.

Which reminds me: Are there any real rumours of change for the Inquisitor Henchmen? I heard they were nerfing the ability to fire at all deepstriking units

Dunno if it has been brought up yet, but some Vindicare rumors have surfaced:

BoLS wrote:There has been a LOT of chatter over the last few weeks regarding the upcoming Grey Knights book. Here is the latest we've heard about the galaxy's favorite sniper, the Vindicare:

Exitus weapons are said to be AP:1
Both a rifle (sniper) and pistol come as standard equipment
Weapon ranges are said to be unchanged
Unlimited special Exitus ammo types are now available: ~Apparently the Imperium sends Vindicares into the field with ammo clips now!
-Hellfire (wounds on a 2+)
-Turbo Penetrator (doubles wounds, 4d6 penetration)
-Shield Breaker (victim loses invulnerables for the rest of the game)

Victim loses invulnerables for the rest of the game? Eep! Seer council and Eldrad will not be happy. Nor will any daemons, Lysander in combat with power weapon-wielding models, etc., etc.

puma713 wrote:Dunno if it has been brought up yet, but some Vindicare rumors have surfaced:

BoLS wrote:There has been a LOT of chatter over the last few weeks regarding the upcoming Grey Knights book. Here is the latest we've heard about the galaxy's favorite sniper, the Vindicare:

Exitus weapons are said to be AP:1
Both a rifle (sniper) and pistol come as standard equipment
Weapon ranges are said to be unchanged
Unlimited special Exitus ammo types are now available: ~Apparently the Imperium sends Vindicares into the field with ammo clips now!
-Hellfire (wounds on a 2+)
-Turbo Penetrator (doubles wounds, 4d6 penetration)
-Shield Breaker (victim loses invulnerables for the rest of the game)

Victim loses invulnerables for the rest of the game? Eep! Seer council and Eldrad will not be happy. Nor will any daemons, Lysander in combat with power weapon-wielding models, etc., etc.

Shield Breaker seems like Terminator Character Bane as well... Is that Calgar? BOOOM!!! Ok, now he doesn't have an Invulnerable save. BOOOM!!! Ok, now hes dead by the Turbo Penetrator. Sounds like a scary unit who will be soaking up a lot of fire... May actually pick one up... Proxying my scout sniper just isn't the same...

BoLS wrote:
-Shield Breaker (victim loses invulnerables for the rest of the game)

Terminators are screwed!

BoLS wrote:-Shield Breaker (victim loses invulnerables for the rest of the game)

And once again the Daemonhunters cause silly consequences because of the lack of distinction made with Invulnerable saves. An AP bullet that burns out a field generator is one thing, an AP bullet that destroys the God-granted, renewable, protection of the Emperor or one that removes your ability to dodge is an over-abstraction.

DA's Forever wrote:

BoLS wrote:
-Shield Breaker (victim loses invulnerables for the rest of the game)

Terminators are screwed!

If this is true, then Vindacare assassins will definately become some of the most high priority targets in the game... Unless there's a better assassin for the job...

I haven't been following but:

Isn't the Vindicare something of a ranged assassin?

Do they ignore the effects of the Shrouding?

Does the Exitus rifle only do one shot per turn?

Aren't the rumors supposed to be Termies = 2 wounds?

And isn't this supposed to be just that; RUMOURS.

Indeed it is but if there's truth... my poor Terminators..

If it is true then he nonetheless only has one shot and frankly 3+ invulnerable saves deserve to be beaten somehow.
Armies such as Daemons and Eldar are in much greater threat IF it is true.

Even so, it's still just a RUMOUR.

malfred wrote:Isn't the Vindicare something of a ranged assassin?

Yes.

Do they ignore the effects of the Shrouding?

Vindicares traditionally have a Spy Mask that might affect this.

Does the Exitus rifle only do one shot per turn?

I'd assume so.

Aren't the rumors supposed to be Termies = 2 wounds?

Only super GK terminators. Normal GK terminators and those in other armies aren't affected.

AlexHolker wrote:

BoLS wrote:-Shield Breaker (victim loses invulnerables for the rest of the game)

And once again the Daemonhunters cause silly consequences because of the lack of distinction made with Invulnerable saves. An AP bullet that burns out a field generator is one thing, an AP bullet that destroys the God-granted, renewable, protection of the Emperor or one that removes your ability to dodge is an over-abstraction.

In all fairness, arn't the grey knights supposed be able to do nothing less then take out the protection of "Gods", and destroy those that they empower? And that whole psychic thing going onwith them might help in their efforts to hinder an opponent from dodging blows...

Carlovonsexron wrote:In all fairness, arn't the grey knights supposed be able to do nothing less then take out the protection of "Gods", and destroy those that they empower? And that whole psychic thing going onwith them might help in their efforts to hinder an opponent from dodging blows...

The Vindicare is not a Grey Knight, and he's not a psychic. And a shield-breaker bullet being especially effective at hitting evasive targets is still stupid.

AlexHolker wrote:

BoLS wrote:-Shield Breaker (victim loses invulnerables for the rest of the game)

And once again the Daemonhunters cause silly consequences because of the lack of distinction made with Invulnerable saves. An AP bullet that burns out a field generator is one thing, an AP bullet that destroys the God-granted, renewable, protection of the Emperor or one that removes your ability to dodge is an over-abstraction.

I find it easier to just not think about the rules. Just roll with it, and it'll work out fine

That shield breaker round probably has to cause an unsaved wound to have that effect. If it does, it seems like a very high risk, high reward proposition to fire it at a 3++ target.

DA's Forever wrote:Indeed it is but if there's truth... my poor Terminators..

If your opponent is using his vindicare to take pot shots at your terminators rather than your 200 point HQ, then be happy. Assuming BS 5 and wounding on a 4+, that is on average 2.5 dead termies in a game (if he can manage to catch your termies out in the open every round). So relax, your termies will be just fine.

SW armies with thier really expensive, tricked out, TWL should be the ones to be concerned as it will likely bypasses thier meat shields, high toughness, and storm shield.

Unless it's been debunked, I thought that assassins had BS7 or something, can't quite remember who I heard that from.

AlexHolker wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:In all fairness, arn't the grey knights supposed be able to do nothing less then take out the protection of "Gods", and destroy those that they empower? And that whole psychic thing going onwith them might help in their efforts to hinder an opponent from dodging blows...

The Vindicare is not a Grey Knight, and he's not a psychic. And a shield-breaker bullet being especially effective at hitting evasive targets is still stupid.

my bad, I wasnt really following the conversation, and though it was a refrence to a grey knight unit: I fully agree, its stupid on an assassin!

wyomingfox wrote:

DA's Forever wrote:Indeed it is but if there's truth... my poor Terminators..

If your opponent is using his vindicare to take pot shots at your terminators rather than your 200 point HQ, then be happy. Assuming BS 5 and wounding on a 4+, that is on average 2.5 dead termies in a game (if he can manage to catch your termies out in the open every round). So relax, your termies will be just fine.

SW armies with thier really expensive, tricked out, TWL should be the ones to be concerned as it will likely bypasses thier meat shields, high toughness, and storm shield.

I tip my hat to you good sir! Meat shield Termies!