Grey Knight new rumours.

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Grundz**

rogueeyes wrote:
Best bet is to start splitting it into a DH and a Marine army or start some conversions. Most likely allies (both ways) will be completely out. Keep your marines marinie and everything else where it belongs. This actually caused me to start up an IG army because I had inducted guard with my Grey Knights. Now I have around 2000 points or so for guard.

This is the same thing I'm doing, my mechanicus army is half GH and half IG, I can move models between the two at will even through I can't field them at the same time thanks to glorious conversions

**Footsloggin**

As long as assassins have the ability to kill specialized units and have assault grenades... I'll be very happy!

**H.B.M.C.**

The Venenum, if it were included, would be some sort of heavy poison assassin. Personally I think he'd be redundant, but you never know. As for the Vanus - he's the most indirect of all the Assassins. He gets other people to get you, so I can't imagine him on the battlefield.

**boreas**

Well, if it works like in the Nemesis novel, the Vanus could be part of the =I= retinue and work a bit like the IG advisors (giving +1 to reserve or such...). Otherwise, I can't really see them in the codex.

Phil

**Footsloggin**

H.B.M.C. wrote:The Venenum, if it were included, would be some sort of heavy poison assassin. Personally I think he'd be redundant, but you never know. As for the Vanus - he's the most indirect of all the Assassins. He gets other people to get you, so I can't imagine him on the battlefield.

Or he could have the ability similar to tervigons or the like to "Spawn" units with statistics equivalent to Conscripts...

Though that seems very far fetched. Heavy poisons could have similar rules to the Vindicare's special ammunition, such as reducing Initiative of opponents, wounding on a 2+, reducing WS...ETC.

**Grundz**

H.B.M.C. wrote:The Venenum, if it were included, would be some sort of heavy poison assassin. Personally I think he'd be redundant, but you never know. As for the Vanus - he's the most indirect of all the Assassins. He gets other people to get you, so I can't imagine him on the battlefield.

attack that if passes can have an enemy unit fire upon another enemy unit?

**Kurgash**

Grundz wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:The Venenum, if it were included, would be some sort of heavy poison assassin. Personally I think he'd be redundant, but you never know. As for the Vanus - he's the most indirect of all the Assassins. He gets other people to get you, so I can't imagine him on the battlefield.

attack that if passes can have an enemy unit fire upon another enemy unit?

You keep him away from my Chaos Drea...oh wait nevermind.

**Footsloggin**

Kurgash wrote:
Grundz wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:The Venenum, if it were included, would be some sort of heavy poison assassin. Personally I think he'd be redundant, but you never know. As for the Vanus - he's the most indirect of all the Assassins. He gets other people to get you, so I can't imagine him on the battlefield.

attack that if passes can have an enemy unit fire upon another enemy unit?

You keep him away from my Chaos Drea...oh wait nevermind.

Lol.

Conscripts shooting on conscripts! Gotta laugh there too

However, I'm wondering how elite my PAGK will be, and if I will be able to field my 30 in a 2k points game.

**Gitzbitah**

Power Armor is soooo last codex. Artificer Armored Grey Knights are the new orange.

**Footsloggin**

Gitzbitah wrote:Power Armor is soooo last codex. Artificer Armored Grey Knights are the new orange.

I've read artificer, but it seems almost too good to be true...

**Neconilis**

Magc8Ball wrote:Sorry to ask a minor question so late in the process, but it's such a bleeding long thread that going through it is just so daunting.

It's pretty clear that the DH army list will not be able to take allies. Has it been confirmed that other armies will no longer be able to take units from the codex as allies? I've got a partially-built Marine army that uses GK's, an Inquisitor, and some Stormies; if it's not going to be legal past April or whatever, it'd be nice to know so I can start finding an alternate use for the marine portion of the list.

Thanks, all.

Also, depending on what exactly that you're running you'll have the WH codex to ally and be allied with for awhile longer.

**ph34r**

Footsloggin wrote:Or he could have the ability similar to tervigons or the like to "Spawn" units with statistics equivalent to Conscripts...

No way in hell. The whole point of the vanus is that there is literally no evidence other than the rantings of one inquisitor that they even exist. Statting them in game would be just awful.

EDIT: apparently they are detailed more in Nemesis the novel, but still, Vanus are not battlefield assassins. Well, none of the assassins really are, but Vanus is even less.

**Mad4Minis**

Leprousy wrote:In my experience there are a lot of players willing to spend a lot of money on miniatures that they hack off a sprue, spend 10 seconds glueing up, and 10 minutes slapping on 3 base colors, so that they can play WAAC style. They're the ones who usually seem to get annoyed by special rules, since they never even started playing as a hobby, but as a competition.

I would think WAAC players would love special rules, the more the better, as it gives them something to try and trump the other guy with.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

bhsman wrote:
Mad4Minis wrote:Thats exactly the point...it gets annoying when several times a turn someone is saying "hold on, let me look that up" You shouldnt need to constantly be digging through rulebooks and codexes to play a game. If you like excessively slow games with tons and tons of rules then fine, a decent number of people do...after all, Starfleet Battles is still quite popular.

IMO when a game starts reading like code of law then its a bit much...please reference annex B, page 157, paragraph 7, sub-paragraph 4, section A for that rule...

No offense man but I hope you never have to play games like:

-Magic
-Risk
-Monopoly
-Etc.

All of which are games that easy to pick up the rules for but still require that you read them. Heaven forbid you take 10 seconds to check the other guy's codex to see what special rules his units have. Maybe this is more annoying for a new codex that you might've only heard rumors about and not read it for yourself, but one that's been out for awhile? Do you need to read the other guy's book if you've been playing him for awhile now and already know how he plays?

This is a hobby that involves taking a lot of time purchasing models and their respective rulebooks, assembling and cleaning them, priming, and finally basing and painting them. Are those extra 10 seconds really all that much in the long run? Maybe in a tournament scenario where you only have a set amount of time to play, those seconds can be crucial, but then why are you prepping for a tournament without knowing the rules for the new army that some people might be bringing in the first place?

Anyways, hopefully my last post on the subject, because this is honestly the weirdest complaint I've heard yet.

Every rule in any given codex memorized in 10 seconds eh?...

Eh, NVM...on second though its just not worth it...

**Alpharius**

While at 27 pages and going, it is probably inevitable, but really, this whole thread is heading towards "no longer worth it" territory.

Please refrain from ANY personal attacks - everyone!

OK?

**H.B.M.C.**

Vanus' fight information and intelligence wars. When I said they don't kill directly, I don't mean they hire units to kill people. They kill people thought manipulation. Basically, watch any episode of Burn Notice where Michael and the team use their skills to get rid of someone by making his allies think he's a threat (eg. making a mobster look like he's about to turn himself in as a witness so the mob will kill him for them - that sort of thing).

ph34r wrote:No way in hell. The whole point of the vanus is that there is literally no evidence other than the rantings of one inquisitor that they even exist. Statting them in game would be just awful.

EDIT: apparently they are detailed more in Nemesis the novel, but still, Vanus are not battlefield assassins. Well, none of the assassins really are, but Vanus is even less.

Exactly.

The only way to represent a Vanus in game would be a rule like:

Indirect Assassin - Before deployment, the player may choose one of his opponent's Independent Characters. That character is not deployed, and is counted as destroyed for all mission objective/kill point/victory point purposes.

And that would be, as you said, just awful.

**Kanluwen**

I call dibbs on Sam Axe in my army.

**H.B.M.C.**

I'll take Fi.

**Pyriel-**

The Venenum, if it were included, would be some sort of heavy poison assassin. Personally I think he'd be redundant, but you never know. As for the Vanus - he's the most indirect of all the Assassins. He gets other people to get you, so I can't imagine him on the battlefield.

On the contrary, those two would open up some awesome possibilities.
Venenum could give your unit(s) poison type attacks and maybe weaken d3 enemy units as in lowering a ld stat or other stat (poisoned enemy troops).

Whereas the vanus would totally dissrupt enemy deployment, screw up reserve rolls, re-deploy enemy units like crazy, make vehicles stunned, units pinned etc etc.

Basically the venenum would be a unit booster and enemy weakener and the vanus a reserve dissruptor and enemy unit deployment catastrophy.

Nothing that I wouldnt like to see on the TT.

**bhsman**

Tempus Fugitives made a profile for Imperial Assassins for their Scouring campaign, and I think the Vanus had:

-A rending power weapon (vibro-blade?)
-Melta Bombs
-Caused d3 vehicles to be glanced before the game started
-And something else?

**wolfshadow**

Serious 'salt shaker' worth rumour over on Warseer about the rumored GK walker thingie

:

They will not get bogged down and there is two versions of the dredknight as i have read the first option will run ya 130pts with a gatling psycannon (heavy 12), and a heavy incinerator gun (fires like a hellhound) and its armed with two dred cca. the second is a dred same as above but also armed with a jump jet which will run 205pts and can move 12" then once per game it can boost to move 30" but may not assault afterwards.

as reguarding the rumors with upping the armor value that is not going to happen although there is a power that allows the vehicle to negate crew stunned and crew shaken.
stinger989 is offline Report Post Reply With Quote

**Footsloggin**

Dear *insert diety here* the first sounds like a swarm armies worst nightmare. Your elites get gunned down by a gattling gun, and when your units get close, they can enjoy the flames!

**Che-Vito**

pretre wrote:
wolfshadow wrote:
pretre wrote:More importantly, this rumor makes it look like the Inq is self-sufficient in their own codex and does not have 'See Codex BLAH'.

That's a big deal for cross edition balance.

That's actually a really good point.

And from the looks of it, they have added GK units and added inquisition units while only losing some of the lame extras (orbitals and Daemonhosts). I am pro-this. (Also notice that they are adding a lot of GK models, boxes and only a blister for Inquisition, meaning all those folks who were afraid they would 'lose' something to Inq don't have to worry.)

If they do this with Sisters, we will have New/More sisters units, vehicles and rules along with a parallel Inquisitor/Guard track that stands alone or mixes. Plus from the looks of it, at least 5 new boxes for the core list (in this case Sisters), which is awesome.

Pretty much best case scenario for all but the most stubborn.

Well, from what has been shown so far, I *am* afraid of losing the awesome rules for assassins.
I'd prefer the orbital strike over Deathstrike, any day as well.

**The Decapitator**

H.B.M.C. wrote: Vanus' fight information and intelligence wars. When I said they don't kill directly, I don't mean they hire units to kill people. They kill people thought manipulation. Basically, watch any episode of Burn Notice where Michael and the team use their skills to get rid of someone by making his allies think he's a threat (eg. making a mobster look like he's about to turn himself in as a witness so the mob will kill him for them - that sort of thing).

ph34r wrote:No way in hell. The whole point of the vanus is that there is literally no evidence other than the rantings of one inquisitor that they even exist. Statting them in game would be just awful.
EDIT: apparently they are detailed more in Nemesis the novel, but still, Vanus are not battlefield assassins. Well, none of the assassins really are, but Vanus is even less.

Exactly.

The only way to represent a Vanus in game would be a rule like:
Indirect Assassin - Before deployment, the player may choose one of his opponent's Independent Characters. That character is not deployed, and is counted as destroyed for all mission objective/kill point/victory point purposes.

That might not be as silly as it sounds actually, for example;

Player 1 takes Vanus Assassin at a cost of say 150 points. At the start of the game he rolls 1 dice which represents his only opportunity of his methods working to cause damage to an enemy unit. On a roll of 6 the unit is removed as killed in action, on a 5 it takes a wound with no saves, on a 4 or 3 it takes a wound with armour saves allowed and on a 1 or 2 it does nothing and the controlling player has wasted their points.

So when you write your army list you have a choice of taking out a rock hard enemy unit for a little amount of points. Or you could be wasting the points altogether. Imagine how fethed off your opponent would be losing their 400 point HQ model before the game even starts!

*edited for my appalling use of HTML on my iPhone*

**AlexHolker**

The Decapitator wrote:Imagine how fethed off your opponent would be losing their 400 point HQ model before the game even starts!

That would not be a good thing.

**The Decapitator**

AlexHolker wrote:
The Decapitator wrote:Imagine how fethed off your opponent would be losing their 400 point HQ model before the game even starts!

That would not be a good thing.

Exactly but that's the point because there's only a 1 in 6 chance of that happening. The most any other roll of the dice is going to do for his opponents 150 odd point outlay is lose 1 wound and thats if it does anything at all! I'd take that for an extra chunk of points more than my opponent!

**Death By Monkeys**

H.B.M.C. wrote:I'll take Fi.

I would call Michael Weston, but Simon's pretty tempting.

**AlexHolker**

The Decapitator wrote:
AlexHolker wrote:
The Decapitator wrote:Imagine how fethed off your opponent would be losing their 400 point HQ model before the game even starts!

That would not be a good thing.

Exactly but that's the point because there's only a 1 in 6 chance of that happening.

I'd rather leave it as a 0 in 6 chance like it is now.

**Alpharius**

Dante is such a fan favorite too, isn't he?

I don't see too many more 'affect your opponents models before the game'' characters coming out... I hope!

**shealyr**

AlexHolker wrote:
The Decapitator wrote:
AlexHolker wrote:
The Decapitator wrote:Imagine how fethed off your opponent would be losing their 400 point HQ model before the game even starts!

That would not be a good thing.

Exactly but that's the point because there's only a 1 in 6 chance of that happening.

I'd rather leave it as a 0 in 6 chance like it is now.

You're right. It's better that we have things like Dante giving my HQ -1 WS, W, I, and A.

Even the worst sounding rules can't be discounted anymore in 40k. Especially if Matt Ward is writing it.

EDIT: Apparently, myself and Alpharius had the same idea at the same time

**AgeOfEgos**

Hey it's Abaddon, the favorite of Horus who ripped off the talus himself and has launched countless Black Crusades. The favored of the eternal Chaos Gods!

Good thing Dante showed up with his Boo Mask ™ because Abaddon just lost a wound, attack, his bowel control, the ability to speak, etc etc

Alpharius wrote:Dante is such a fan favorite too, isn't he?

I don't see too many more 'affect your opponents models before the game'' characters coming out... I hope!