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Wasn't sure where to post this, but does anyone else besides me feel bad when they show up to a game store with a completed army and play a couple of games, but don't buy anything that day?

Yeah, a bit. Particularly now that there isn't really any small items I can just grab if I don't find anything else.

It used to be that I could always pick up another ship for X-wing, or a salvage box for Battletech, but now they don't seem to have anything like that in stock.

I don’t, and I don’t think people should. But it also annoy me a lot when people treat FLGS quite badly, and I will say something nowadays about it.

It’s probably also why snacks are such an important thing in some stores. Gives a little thing to buy why you’re there if you don’t intend to get anything else.

Not really. Having folks seen to be playing the games is a fairly effective method of advertising.

Whilst I do advocate to Buy Where You Play, I don’t think it’s reasonable to buy something every time you visit. Just your presence there, presumably having a good time, can help them make more sales.

This is especially true of smaller scaled games, stuff like Necromunda or Shatterpoint which have a low entry cost. If folk see that game being played and enjoyed? They might well take a punt, and from there a new customer is created.

Certainly I’m more inclined to buy into a game I know has a local, and accessible, player base.

One time? Not at all. obviously if I can grab a drink or a snack or some paint, that at least shows that I'm a paying customer.

If I'm going week in and week out, yeah, I try to pick something up now and then. Codex, white dwarf, squad box.

You need to support where you play, or they will go under. Seen it happen so many times over the years.

I’d like to do it every visit, but with minis games that’s not easy. I can’t drop 40-60 bucks on a box every time I darken their doorway. It’s not like CCGs where you can impuse buy a pack of cards. Snacks and sodas do help.

So yes, I do feel bad when I can’t. But I know I’m doing what I can when I can.

I'm sure I'd seen a GW staffer complain that whilst people buying a single paint is nice when they are in gaming, it completely screws their average sale price metric used for upselling. I'd need a staffer to weigh in there.


The FLGS needs to get *something* for the table space, whether it's providing a community to bring others in, or making a tournament more popular, or directly in sales I don't know. I always try to spend at least enough to cover my presence, though I'd prefer that was via sodas and snacks rather than gaming stuff since a lot of the stuff I want is beyond pocket money range or not in stock. That was even worse when at a Malifaux tournament where you field 10 models at most and the FLGS probably doesn't stock the figures you don't have.

I'd much prefer a more straightforward table/tournament entry fee. If it's $5/hour for a table, job done.


What I especially hate, are the folk who come to an FLGS, game, and then make a big noise about how stuff is cheaper online. I can understand not spending any money, but driving away money is an especially gak move.

Herzlos wrote:
I'm sure I'd seen a GW staffer complain that whilst people buying a single paint is nice when they are in gaming, it completely screws their average sale price metric used for upselling. I'd need a staffer to weigh in there.

I can’t speak for GW, but I know from my days working retail in a chain music store years ago items pet transaction absolutely was a metric we were judged on. We were expected to upsell memberships, pre-orders, CD wipes, all sorts of stuff. Just selling one item was a bad thing for the numbers.

Average Transaction Value was a metric when I last worked for GW around 14, 15 years ago.

Sometimes though, all the customer wants is a pot or two of paint. The trick is to upsell to the already big spenders.

Someone buying two or three kits? You ok for glue, got all the paints you need? Are their picks available in say, a Combat Patrol? If so, mention it. Sure you’re getting them to spend more than they perhaps intended, but the saving on the combat patrol or equivalent offsets that.

Doesn’t take much to get your ATV healthy. And to be honest? Someone just getting a pot or two was pretty rare.

There is bad upselling, for things like extended warranties or store credit cards that are rubbish for the consumer, and those practices are brutal on the employees.

But in a specialty retail environment like a gaming store, upselling is so easy and can be done so casually that customers will often thank you. If somebody buys a kit, you ask "do you have all the paints and glue you'll need?" If they buy they codex, let them know you also have the datacards. If they're just buying paints, point out the new basing materials you got in stock. Guess what: when people are spending fun money on fun stuff, they like hearing about other stuff they might like!

I used to work in a swimming pool supply store. And one summer out boss made us ask every customer who was checking out, if they didn't have any chlorine, if they needed any. I don't know how much our chlorine sales went up, but it was a lot, and for every person annoyed we were asking there were three people happy because they were almost out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Sometimes though, all the customer wants is a pot or two of paint. The trick is to upsell to the already big spenders.

All right, it's been 20 years since I've worked retail, but let me see if I can come up with a line for the one pot of paint at a GW store guy.

If it's a base layer, ask if they have the specific wash that best shades it. If it's a layer, ask if they have the base and highlight to it.

if it's contrast, ask if they need more contrast medium, or a dry paint that works well with that particular contrast shade.

If they are buying a single pot of dry paint, they are a true gentleman and they clearly know what they are doing.

I always buy something whenever i got into a gaming store.
A pot of paint or spraycan minimum.

I do think there is pressure although it is unintended in most cases.

When I used to go to my local GW, most of the guys understood that we would buy from there when we could and wouldn't try to upsell because we were kids without real disposable income. At least one guy was always a rat about it and once even threatened to kick us all out because we hadn't bought anything in a month (in January after our families had all just spent hundreds on Christmas gifts).

When I moved onto FLGs I never got to know the people running the places as well because I didn't get time to go as regularly due to work/studying. I would buy from time to time but I always seemed to get the vibe they didn't want us there because we weren't playing the likes of MTG, Pokemon TCG, or the games where they made most of their money.
They had GW stock but they never had events for GW systems but always had X-Wing, FoW, or Team Yankee running pretty much constantly.
I haven't been back there since Militia rules for HH2 came out cos the vibe was so off.

I haven’t played a game in my FLGS without buying something there. However, my friends and I mostly game at home, so we only play at the FLGS when we want to see what’s new and shop, anyway. Also, the FLGS charges for the table.


We haven’t gone back much since a couple of the senior employees were heatedly spouting conspiracy theories.

Whenever I've gamed at a store I try to support that store; be it a GW store or a 3rd party. Sure a GW store has the firm behind it to ride out slow sale periods, but the store still has to pull its weight to justify it being there.


As others have said, if you want the store to remain you have to support it. It's not just somewhere to play; its somewhere to connect and communicate to other gamers; its somewhere local that has a vested interest in drawing in new people to the hobby. The store supports your hobby so in turn it helps you to help them even if their boxed sets cost a bit more than the best (legit) discount store you can find online.


Supporting your local doesn't mean you have to buy something every time you game. You might have times you game and don't buy a thing and times you buy when you don't game. The key is making it part of your purchase choice and deciding to spend there rather than on other stores (eg big online discount stores).

At the same time don't feel bad if you turn up to game with whole armies not bought from the store. Gaming provides entertainment and advertising at the time and value for customers to stick around. An active gaming community creates a group and a drive that directly helps the store.

That is unless everyone is always buying online and never supporting the store.



And yes smart staff realise that you don't hard-sell to the regulars all the time so long as they make active contributions and purchases.

The reason I brought this up was a particular issue that I faced. The store I enjoyed visiting was primarily an RPG store that allowed tabletop war gamers to use their tables during the day, and the RPGers would show up and rented the spaces on evenings and weekends.

I would occasionally buy merchandise for games I knew I would never play, or buy gifts for my friends there to support the store, but I always felt like I never truly belonged as I didn't partake of the other activities or use anything I ever bought in the store.

To this day I don't think I've ever played the BattleTech Mechwarrior RPG, but I owned a lot of their books because I felt guilty not buying things and using the gaming space.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The reason I brought this up was a particular issue that I faced. The store I enjoyed visiting was primarily an RPG store that allowed tabletop war gamers to use their tables during the day, and the RPGers would show up and rented the spaces on evenings and weekends.

I would occasionally buy merchandise for games I knew I would never play, or buy gifts for my friends there to support the store, but I always felt like I never truly belonged as I didn't partake of the other activities or use anything I ever bought in the store.

To this day I don't think I've ever played the BattleTech Mechwarrior RPG, but I owned a lot of their books because I felt guilty not buying things and using the gaming space.

Personally I would not buy things I did not want - though in general wherever I've gamed where its a store the store has supported the game or at least the hobby itself. Ergo the situation never arose for me where there's a place I'd game which doesn't support anything I like outside of offering tablespace.

I understand and appreciate the social pressure you likely felt at the time. Personally if I were in even a similar situation I'd likely find something the store did that interested me to buy into and play around with, even if only casually.

But I wouldn't encourage people to spend money on things they do not want out of some obligation. I'd likely have asked the store if there were products they could order in and supply. If you were gaming there then that means there was more than one gamer customer, probably more. So potentially the store could have started stocking a limited range of products- even if it was mail-order only rather than directly held stock.

The closest game store to me is primarily a comic store, but they do carry RPGs, Games Workshop and board and card games. They just celebrated their 43rd anniversary today so they’re doing good with a diverse product range.

Running a small store like an FLGS is definitely a struggle. You should absolutely buy at least some stuff from them. You should never have to purchase stuff to play of course. Not everybody can afford to buy something every time.

What really separates a good store from the bad, or I suppose poorly run from well run, is having snacks for sale. Snacks are the necessary compromise for a store to make money without requiring expensive purchases from their customers each time they are playing.

Personally, I always try to buy snacks when they are available if I am not planning on buying anything else. Its also something that is really smart since snacks like candies and sodas are very high profit margin products unlike a lot of gaming stuff. You can make 50-75% margins on cheap snack foods while a lot of gaming stuff is maybe half that best cast scenario.

The only shop I played in with a lot of gaming space charged for the tables, so I didn't feel too bad not buying stuff on top of that. I would still buy a lot of stuff from them because they had a good selection though.

My local shop here is great, and I buy stuff from them regularly (though less now that I have a kid and need to watch my spending). I prefer to get stuff from them if at all possible and am willing to wait or buy a similar product rather than ordering exactly what I want online a lot of the time. I do still do they odd online order but I try to buy most stuff with my local shop because they are really friendly and I like having a local shop. I don't play there at all though, and I'm not sure they really encourage it?

Buying stuff every time you go is a lot and I do think the "goodwill purchase" in wargaming has sort of evaporated over time. D&D minis are a good version of that if you want generic Fantasy minis, because they still have affordable blister packs, whereas the likes of GW don't really have that any more.

WRT upselling, I don't blame them for trying but I won't buy stuff I don't want because of that. Some of the GW staff need better training or a sharper sense of when they're being ridiculous, I've had some really awkward interactions with some staff there over the years and it's one of the reasons I don't frequent a GW shop. I remember in particular buying some kits (so not a tiny purchase) and the staff member was like "Oh so you want this kit, this kit and this [big boxed game I had not asked for]". I smiled and shook my head but he kept trying to go forward with it, and I had to be pretty firm to get him to stop. I thought that was well out of order and I don't know what he thought he was doing. Socially awkward fellas working there sometimes.

Oh, another pearl of wisdom from my time 14 or 15 years ago?

Inviting people down to games or game nights…gets people in store. And once people are in store, you’ve an infinitely higher chance of them spending some money than if they’re not in your store. And an invite is usually well received, as it’s a nice thing to do and makes people feel welcome.

The more regularly someone games, against hopefully a variety of opponents? The more likely they are to add a new unit or two or three, or even start a new army. Not just to counter some filth their existing force struggles to counter, but for sheer variety.

This sadly is where my FLGS could do a lot better. I know there are 40K, AoS, LI and Heresy gamers. But I don’t know them, and have social anxiety to the point where sure I can happily function in public, but approaching strangers can be challenging, especially if they’re midway through a game].

All they need is a board or similar, or a regular rotation of games on set nights, so like Veterans Night Of Yore, I’ll know when the nerds I need to meet are going to be there with their armies, and get a game in then.

But anyways, this goes to reinforce that whilst it is an understandable though, Not Buying Something Every Visit isn’t a sin or a piss take. It serves its purpose.

Consider this plausible scenario. I’m new to town, and am exploring the geek scene locally. I go into the FLGS when it’s quiet. Staffer butters me up, and knows you and your friends typically play on a Saturday, between 12pm and 6pm. And he knows you play the systems I’ve mentioned to him, or I’ve just bought something for.

I now know I can rock up on a Saturday with a fair chance of getting a game and meeting new gaming buddies, who could well become formal friends over the weeks.

The FLGS gains a new customer, and one given reason for repeat visits. And whilst I may not buy something every time I’m down? I’m still coming down more often, and will be buying something on my own schedule of frequency.

Yep. There's obviously a balance to be struck with fellas with nothing to do hanging around all day in the shop, maybe stinking it up or making it seem really insular and cliquey, taking up staff time and preventing them from getting on with various jobs.

I can understand why some shop owners might get annoyed at that, people treating their business premises like a personal clubhouse is something I've seen more than once.

That is a definite and genuine risk.

Many many many moons ago, around 1995, the horribly little town we moved to finally got a FLGS, up by the college.

Was a sod to get to, as it either involved a pretty long walk, or a bus trip which ate into my spending money.

And once inside? The owner could, almost invariably, be found sat down at a table, playing MTG, and kinda ignoring his would be customers. Nothing was promoted. Nothing was pushed. Sure I didn’t exactly have a lot of money then (I was 15 or so), but MTG itself could’ve parted me from my pocket money and paper round wage quite comfortably. But….no.

In a complete surprise to no-one in hindsight? It wasn’t around very long. Inattentive owner, and his mates would bagsy and hog all the playing space.

When I would run my GW’s gaming days and evenings a few years later? I had to clamp down on any cliques who decided “this is how we play in this store. You must adhere to this set of tournament rules”.

Now, between themselves? Go for it, I don’t care. You’re still buying. But when they tried to make everyone adhere to that? Uh-uh. This is my house, not yours. If your next opponent just wants to play WHFB or 40K, core rules thank you.

Not always nice thing to do, but usually a necessary thing. Just…..don’t be a Richard about it.

Also “no setting up a game then sodding off for a two hour lunch”. My boards. Not yours. Get your game done then go have lunch. And if you’re all stinky? Please don’t be stinky. Have a shower before you arrive, because me having to send you home because you stink isn’t nice for either of us.

I try to pay where I play, even if it's snacks and drinks - which, frankly, are probably the store's biggest margins.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I would occasionally buy merchandise for games I knew I would never play, or buy gifts for my friends there to support the store, but I always felt like I never truly belonged as I didn't partake of the other activities or use anything I ever bought in the store.

Maybe it takes a bit of confidence, but I'd rather just give leave $10 on the counter "for the table time" than buy stuff I don't want/need. I'm not sure an actual GW store would accept it but any independent should be fine. Maybe it goes in a tip jar, or the staffers pocket or on coffees or something.
But it'll transfer more value than buying a $20 book, because that $20 is probably close to $7 or $8 by the time you deal with stock management, markup, taxes. etc.

Another thing you could do is ask if they can get in x/y/z for you. For instance, they may not stock Warhammer but have an account with a distributor that does so may be able to sell it to you to order. You'd probably need to pay at least a deposit up front but that's pretty low risk. If nothing else, it may give the owner an idea of what they could stock.


As for playing different stuff to the store? Unless you're hogging tables in an otherwise busy venue, which it doesn't sound like, you're absolutely fine. I'm sure the owner would rather people were in having fun and making the place look a bit busier than it being a ghost town.

Yup. Busy stores attract more customers. A curio of the human condition.

Ever visited a supermarket and found it near devoid of other customers? It’s oddly creepy. Rare, but definitely creepy when it happens.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Ever visited a supermarket and found it near devoid of other customers? It’s oddly creepy. Rare, but definitely creepy when it happens.

Just go visit your local Coop - not only will it be a ghost-town compared to every other supermarket; but you'll also see way more baskets than trollies being used because freaking heck are the Coop expensive now.

Buying something when you visit is a good way to support your local FLGS.

But there's other ways as well:

- Be a resource for questions about 40k while you play. You'd be surprised how many Moms stroll into these places around the holidays with no idea what they're after. Get them over the sticker shock and maybe focus them on the good units.

- Organize leagues and tournaments. Getting other gamers to the store has a butterfly effect, you're building customer loyalty for the FLGS owner. Just being the person who sends the emails can make a big difference in a store's bottom line.

- Paint a house army to a high standard. Nothing sells an expensive kit like seeing it in the flesh.

- Do painting and modelling workshops. I've done airbrushing and basing workshops before audiences of 30 people. Turns an hour of your time into a big sales day for a place you hang out at a lot.

- Just offer to mind the store while you play. FLGS owners I've known had little personal time and few employees. Sitting at the counter for them during slow periods can make a difference in their day.

Painting stuff needn’t be formal sessions either. If there’s a dedicated painting table, chat to the others using it. It’s pretty normal to exchange tips and techniques.

Encourage a friendly, helpful community by being…friendly and helpful!

Particularly with younger gamers, keep in mind they tend to be lifelong nerds. And the GW store or FLGS might be the first accepting space they’ve known outside of childhood.

As a Till Monkey, their first few visits could be tricky, as depending on their life experiences they may be unused to social spaces. But a wee bit of patience and understanding, and they soon pick up. To see that change happening, and a shy awkward kid become less so is a pretty terrific pay off.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup. Busy stores attract more customers. A curio of the human condition.

Ever visited a supermarket and found it near devoid of other customers? It’s oddly creepy. Rare, but definitely creepy when it happens.

That's called Liminal Space and is quite a popular trend with online horror creators.

If I am going to play in a shop I will buy something. Unless I pay for the table, in which case I already have.