Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

New publication by 40k creator Rick Priestley, Space Battles, the games of battles, IN SPACE!

A new age of galactic warfare is upon us…
With his rules writing and innovative game design dating back to the late-1970’s, during an incomparable career that has encompassed a plethora of publications, such as Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000, Hail Caesar, and much more besides, Rick Priestley is a name synonymous with fantasy, science fiction and historical wargaming. In addition to his rules work, with his originality and incessant creativity placing him alongside the likes of J.R.R. Tolkien and Frank Herbert, Rick Priestley has also shaped countless richly detailed fantastical universes through his evocative and compelling worldbuilding.
Marking an exciting, brand-new chapter in his wargame creation, we are both honoured and delighted to announce that Wombat Wargames have released a brand new miniatures game written and designed by Rick Priestley. With a unique, dynamic world setting, this original tabletop strategic wargame also includes a growing range of official metal miniatures, many designed and sculpted by Rick himself (which will be made available exclusively via RPE Miniatures & Games), while the game will also be supported through regular features within the pages of Shadows of Centralis Monthly Magazine. Furthermore, Rick has also created a dedicated Space Battles blog.

I already ordered a copy to go with my copy of Space Fleet, so now my Space Fleets have something to do!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DPSLC38X

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DPSLC38X

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089557067697

I totally admit I just got this for Priestley and because of the echo of my beloved Space Fleet, and it's Christmas.

Ultra retro (this is me being kind) metal models here:
https://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/wombat-wargames-c-251/space-battles-c-251_286/

So is there any mention of how it plays?

I watched the awful "flick through" YouTube video they posted on their website for the game that is just miserable noise and a set of hands going through a prototype book for two minutes. But, there wasn't anything on how the game plays besides it involving decks of cards.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
So is there any mention of how it plays?

I watched the awful "flick through" YouTube video they posted on their website for the game that is just miserable noise and a set of hands going through a prototype book for two minutes. But, there wasn't anything on how the game plays besides it involving decks of cards.

Well, his initial Beyond the Gates of Antares kickstarter was launched a decade ago with an anemic amount of details, a sit down interview with Priestly, and one still WIP mustachioed green sculpt so personally I'd wait for more info. They did rush to add more info about the rules, models, and gameplay videos to the front page of the KS as the campaign progressed because it was failing (and ultimately was cancelled when it was obvious it would) and the game did actually come out in the end with some good models and generally good reception to the rules to their credit so I'm not worried about the end product. I would just want to see more before getting excited as a fan of the space battle genre.

Quite interesting to see how this will play. And that's a fair old page count!

Also funny to follow on FB and recognise a few familiar names on there, including one person that I was informed was dead (which I guess was one way to not play at an event).

Well my copy in on order and I promise a review as soon as I claim my title as the Space Battles Champion of All India.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Well my copy in on order and I promise a review as soon as I claim my title as the Space Battles Champion of All India.

That sounds like it needs a blog... and possibly a dance number.

Hmmm yes Antares KS flashback where the entire premise is "gib money because Rick is famous"

When you get your hands on it, tell us if it's any good. I can't afford another space game that no one is playing.

Rick's blog https://spacebattlesaspacefarersguide.blogspot.com/

I like how the pitch is that the game is easy to get into as it needs no dice and no bookkeeping

Then you find out it needs a non standard gridded mat and a bucket of tokens marked with card suits

This... doesn't look promising or interesting at all. And the miniatures I see are not only extremely bland but also quality-wise from the early 80's (that was the last time I remember Rick sculpting - I somewhere have a thief with sunglasses and a GW(?) book).

I mean, maybe the rules with the cards are actually fun but there's nothing to move me to try it out

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Rick's blog https://spacebattlesaspacefarersguide.blogspot.com/

I like how the pitch is that the game is easy to get into as it needs no dice and no bookkeeping

Then you find out it needs a non standard gridded mat and a bucket of tokens marked with card suits

For a second, I thought you just mash them up against each other and laser and explosion noises to determine combat resolution like the oldest of old school mechanics if there are no dice and bookkeeping. Phew! Crisis averted unlike with the great Lion-O and He-Man clash of 1985 that had no clear winner...

I generally like Rick Priestley's games. But I'm pretty skeptical of wargames that rely on cards I have to say, I just find rolling dice more fun. Be interested to hear more once people have given it a go!

Well, his initial Beyond the Gates of Antares kickstarter was launched a decade ago with an anemic amount of details, a sit down interview with Priestly, and one still WIP mustachioed green sculpt so personally I'd wait for more info. They did rush to add more info about the rules, models, and gameplay videos to the front page of the KS as the campaign progressed because it was failing (and ultimately was cancelled when it was obvious it would) and the game did actually come out in the end with some good models and generally good reception to the rules to their credit so I'm not worried about the end product. I would just want to see more before getting excited as a fan of the space battle genre.

Well received is a stretch...

The rules were, and still are, hot garbage. As Mrs Addams said 'Why use three words, when thirty will do'. The rules are so convoluted, that there simply isn't space to add things that actually matter or that you'd actually want to do, because why bother.

Rick writes good rules... when they've been proof read and properly playtested. Bolt Action seems to have had that, Antares... feels more like a favor Warlord did when the kickstarter failed.

So of course, Warlord built on this success with the equal dumpster fire that was Warlords of Erehwon - taking the excellent decision to omit pages numbers just to add to the spicy challenge.



Plus - and this is the crucial bit here - its not as if there aren't already dozens of amazing rules sets for space battles, of all different kinds and scales. Does this really bring anything new to the table? Probably not...

Wow, you've taken that one off the "games to look up when I get home" list.

What are some space games that are popular... and don't require a lot of financial investment... like this monstrosity I found while looking for Halo Fleet Battles UNSC ships...

What would you use this for? You can buy 10 frigates in scale with it...


Nothing says, "I think someone is over compensating for something," like a giant HALO starship.

That's a cool model second only to the giant UCM DFC cruiser and you're just jealous that it's not you holding it!

 Gomezaddams wrote:

Well, his initial Beyond the Gates of Antares kickstarter was launched a decade ago with an anemic amount of details, a sit down interview with Priestly, and one still WIP mustachioed green sculpt so personally I'd wait for more info. They did rush to add more info about the rules, models, and gameplay videos to the front page of the KS as the campaign progressed because it was failing (and ultimately was cancelled when it was obvious it would) and the game did actually come out in the end with some good models and generally good reception to the rules to their credit so I'm not worried about the end product. I would just want to see more before getting excited as a fan of the space battle genre.

Well received is a stretch...

The rules were, and still are, hot garbage. As Mrs Addams said 'Why use three words, when thirty will do'. The rules are so convoluted, that there simply isn't space to add things that actually matter or that you'd actually want to do, because why bother.

Rick writes good rules... when they've been proof read and properly playtested. Bolt Action seems to have had that, Antares... feels more like a favor Warlord did when the kickstarter failed.

So of course, Warlord built on this success with the equal dumpster fire that was Warlords of Erehwon - taking the excellent decision to omit pages numbers just to add to the spicy challenge.
Plus - and this is the crucial bit here - its not as if there aren't already dozens of amazing rules sets for space battles, of all different kinds and scales. Does this really bring anything new to the table? Probably not...

It seems absolutely crazy having to come and defend Rick Priestley (without whom, I am pretty confident none of us would be having this conversation on this forum) but some of his newer rulesets have not been bad. Hail Caesar is good fun (I'm looking forward to giving the Epic Hannibal set a spin as soon as I can get the things painted) and of course Bolt Action is probably the most ubiquitous WW2 game. Antares was pretty much the same game, and so should be fun - I think a lack of marketing and interesting model range (apart from the cool spider guys!) was what let that game down. I still know of a few people who play the game and have interesting mini collections, so it absolutely wasn't for nothing. I do agree with you that the rules writing can be overly verbose, but comparing it to some of GW's modern offerings (Legions Imperialis I'm looking at you), at least they don't read like the small print of my car insurance.

I also think the attempted KS was potentially, as an idea, one of the biggest steps forward the games industry could have had in the past few decades. Just the concept of having a living world and universe where player results and feedback feed into an ongoing narrative and story development. I think the fact that it seemed like the KS had been scribbled on the back of a napkin (everyone else has since learned you have to come to those with rules, miniatures 95% of the way there) didn't help. No-one else has tried to do anything like that before or since, especially after we were all lied to about the Eye of Terror campaign

I think what killed the KS was the entitlement. It asked for a blatantly ridiculous sum of money for absolutely nothing based on the celebrity name alone, while asking that the customers also do most of the work.

Dude may have wrote the first commercially successful game and he has a couple decent rulesets to his name, but he's far from the best game designer to have ever lived and needs to tone down the egomania.

I'm Really into space games but the grid map really puts a cork in the enthusiasm to try this...

Warlords of Erehwon was excellent, and certainly had page numbers, are you sure you’re thinking of the right game, Gomez? I only played the fantasy one (and a lot of it to boot), maybe the Mythic Americas one was the numberless stinker?

Gridded combat is all the rage in game design lately.

Personally not a fan, but I can see a lot of mechanical advantages to it.

Nothing wrong with it in itself, but it's a big barrier to entry to require a custom gaming mat. Even folks who play spacehip games on a grid already have hexes.

It seems absolutely crazy having to come and defend Rick Priestley (without whom, I am pretty confident none of us would be having this conversation on this forum)

We'd be here without him - it'd be a very different looking hobby, but it'd have still attracted the same sort of people. Some of these industry veterans... people seem to slip on the rose tinted glasses and forget there people sometimes. Rick especially.

Some of his newer rulesets have not been bad. Hail Caesar is good fun (I'm looking forward to giving the Epic Hannibal set a spin as soon as I can get the things painted) and of course Bolt Action is probably the most ubiquitous WW2 game.

So Bolt Action v1 had some absolute howlers of issues that were well known. Both games also benefit from being grounded in reality - people understand what a pike means, how its meant to behave etc. It means when a proof reader looks at it, they can question how things work because they have a sense of how it should work. Antares... not so much.

Antares was pretty much the same game, and so should be fun

It should be... and it is, in all the wrong ways.

I mean you'd think being able to have all manner of whacky units, interesting concepts, grav tanks and drones would lead to some whacky lists... and it doesn't. I played regularly at Warlord HQ - there was quite a big group of us at one point, and what utterly killed it was after about 4 months people were noticing the same armies again and again. Mortar teams were in every list, shield drones were superior to the others and cheap so no one took anything else... playing Isorians? Gotta take the sniper! Playing Algoryn? Gotta take the jetbike things... it didn't reward the sort of innovation that really sells miniatures and games. It also didnt help that some bits of kit were super context specific.

The Rebel Ghar really highlighted this inability to balance. A rag tag group of angry goblins using scavanged kit... who could out shoot literally every army, and bring a massive variety heavy weapons to smash everyone.

I'll say it again - Ricks rules are really good when he has a proof reader. When he doesn't, and its an off the cuff idea, there garbage. He's brilliant, but he needs that editor to sit and have the conversations with him so that what he's put on the page matches how people will eventually play, and how the ideas he's trying to get across will actually work.

The Ghar for example, could have had to take moral checks before acting in the first two turns, limited ammunition, or a limit on heavy weapons.

I think a lack of marketing and interesting model range (apart from the cool spider guys!) was what let that game down.

So I disagree. Its timing, quality, and interest.

The model range is fine, but the plastics are a few generations behind where the market were at the time. Fine for historicals, but no where near the modularity or detail the market expected at the time - its why you didnt see people buying them to proxy as Imperial Guard...

The metals also weren't well cast - thats something warlords had issues with for years, but when you've done something really complex (Isorians were awful for this), it was a nightmare.

In terms of interest... Warlord never really wanted to do the game. Rick handed the game off to Tim Bancroft who didn't really do anything to steer the boat in the right direction, and then oversaw the release of the Virai (the 'I hope you like triangles because everythings triangles' faction). When they fell flat, Antares fate was sealed...

Lastly all the prices went up. Again, this happened as the Warlord HQ group was separate and there was a lot of 'well why would I pay that when I can get this plastic set from GW for not much more'.

I do agree with you that the rules writing can be overly verbose, but comparing it to some of GW's modern offerings (Legions Imperialis I'm looking at you), at least they don't read like the small print of my car insurance.

No, its more choose your own adventure.

With a helpful dose of 'you cant do that because I didnt think you'd want to do that so didnt write rules for it'

I also think the attempted KS was potentially, as an idea, one of the biggest steps forward the games industry could have had in the past few decades.

No. Just no.

The whole thing was fully back of a cigarette packet guess work, and its reflected by just how little of the game actually made it through into the modern version. The Isorians and the test figures were the only things that really survived. Again - reflects that attention span...

This is one of those times that actually, it was probably a good thing it failed.

I'd like a game play video of some kind before I drop cash for the rule book. I have a large lot of Star Trek Tactics heroclix ships I'm hoping to use, that are nicely pre-painted, but I'm not hearing good things about this...

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Well my copy in on order and I promise a review as soon as I claim my title as the Space Battles Champion of All India.

Just saw your reply -- yes please do give us the run down once you've taken a look, thanks.

 Gomezaddams wrote:

I mean you'd think being able to have all manner of whacky units, interesting concepts, grav tanks and drones would lead to some whacky lists... and it doesn't. I played regularly at Warlord HQ - there was quite a big group of us at one point, and what utterly killed it was after about 4 months people were noticing the same armies again and again. Mortar teams were in every list, shield drones were superior to the others and cheap so no one took anything else... playing Isorians? Gotta take the sniper! Playing Algoryn? Gotta take the jetbike things... it didn't reward the sort of innovation that really sells miniatures and games. It also didnt help that some bits of kit were super context specific.

LOL! Yeah, I can't think of any games Rick has not worked on where that has happened. This is clearly just a "Rick P" problem.

I think Rick's biggest fault is that he still thinks wargames are for friends who like each other and hang-out regularly, instead of two total strangers randomly meeting to play a game like an Olympic sport.

 warboss wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Well my copy in on order and I promise a review as soon as I claim my title as the Space Battles Champion of All India.

That sounds like it needs a blog... and possibly a dance number.

I am already the Space Fleet Champion of the Sub Continent so it ought not be too hard.

Definitely does need a celebratory dance number.

Play us out Shah Rukh Khan

 Easy E wrote:

 Gomezaddams wrote:

I mean you'd think being able to have all manner of whacky units, interesting concepts, grav tanks and drones would lead to some whacky lists... and it doesn't. I played regularly at Warlord HQ - there was quite a big group of us at one point, and what utterly killed it was after about 4 months people were noticing the same armies again and again. Mortar teams were in every list, shield drones were superior to the others and cheap so no one took anything else... playing Isorians? Gotta take the sniper! Playing Algoryn? Gotta take the jetbike things... it didn't reward the sort of innovation that really sells miniatures and games. It also didnt help that some bits of kit were super context specific.

LOL! Yeah, I can't think of any games Rick has not worked on where that has happened. This is clearly just a "Rick P" problem.

I think Rick's biggest fault is that he still thinks wargames are for friends who like each other and hang-out regularly, instead of two total strangers randomly meeting to play a game like an Olympic sport.

I want to live in his world.

LOL! Yeah, I can't think of any games Rick has not worked on where that has happened. This is clearly just a "Rick P" problem.

Its especially a Rick problem; most other rules writers tend to stop finding work after that happening twice, where as Rick... no issues. Again, rose tinted glasses.

I think Rick's biggest fault is that he still thinks wargames are for friends who like each other and hang-out regularly, instead of two total strangers randomly meeting to play a game like an Olympic sport.

It is, very much so - and if he pitched and aimed his rules sets at those kitchen table players, that'd be grand. But he doesn't. He wants big games that gain traction... so he adds in weird things that are unnecessary...

Kitchen table players. LOL again.

His group of wargaming pals are the Perrys and other big names in wargaming. The Perrys' famously have a huge table and like huge battles. He is very open about it in his work on Blackpowder. That is about as far from "kitchen table" as you can get.

He is following in the grand tradition of British wargame designers that this is all a bit of fun between friends. To play it the way modern wargamers think of it, is not in his wheel house. It is much more collaborative for pleasure and less about competitive for a fun win.

My point is, if you are not into that style of wargame than his designs will always fall short. That is why his most popular work is often paired with a more "modern" designer like Alessio Cavatore, and his least popular are with like-minded designers such as Jervis Johnson.

That said, if you are not into his style; than this is likely a game not for you. There are plenty of other generic space ship games currently available like:

OPR: Warfleets
Wiley Games Starfighters
Drop Fleet Commander
Void Admiral
Full Thrust
A Billion Suns

and probably more......

 Easy E wrote:

My point is, if you are not into that style of wargame than his designs will always fall short. That is why his most popular work is often paired with a more "modern" designer like Alessio Cavatore, and his least popular are with like-minded designers such as Jervis Johnson.

Well, if you go back, he always had people around him and that was just natural. WHFB first edition had Bryan Ansell and Richard Halliwell, Rogue Trader had some more (and was in fact WHFB merged with Laserburn/Imperial Commander). Nothing to belittle his influence, of course - I really appreciate his (past) work.

I'm curious what he did at GW in ... um ... many years. Necromunda with Andy Chambers, yes. Then Warmaster and suddenly LotR. I guess he was some kind of mentor as I remember from WD articles when he sits in his 'Ivory Tower' he only leaves for beer or tea.

Oh, and I don't think Rick, the Perry twins and Jervis are that like-minded. Rick wants a game, the twins want a simulation and Jervis wants all that, but random.