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 monkeypuzzle wrote:
So they have updated the Vampire Counts rules. The one thing EVERYONE wanted to know is if zombies have to lose models before you can add more or if you can just boost their numbers anytime and what do they do to clarify? You can't make more than 40 total. That doesn't answer the question we all wanted answering! You addressed the badly written rule, but didn't actually clarify anything. Typical GW.

"A unit cannot be taken beyond its starting size" - last words on the page/sidebar on p29. I don't see what's unclear about that.

page 28 Vampire Counts Legacy Army List

"The Newly Dead
Those that fall in battle may be compelled by necromantic magic to
rise again and fight against their former comrades.
When resurrecting the fallen, a unit with this special rule can
be taken beyond its starting size.(but not beyond its
maximum size)."

text in bold added by the FAQ

Yes, that is obvious. Zombie units can grow beyond their starting size, but not over their maximum unit size, which is 40 (or 2D3 for skirmish zombies from the spell, so no adding loads to them). However, what is still NOT clear is when you can add zombies. Do they have to take casualties first, so that you resurrect more than you lost? Or can you add more zombies without having to lose models first? That has been the question since the rules dropped.

 kodos wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
So that should put to rest a couple nonsensical community arguments. Lances can be used any turn a unit charges, not just the first time

but this was not really the problem, main question going round was can lances be used after Fall Back in good Order or not.
Because you cannot swap weapons, confirmed by FAQ, and you get the Bonus anytime you charger, confirmed by FAQ, but does this also counts as charge that let you use the Lance with Bonus or not?

Taking into account Rulebook + FAQs, yes, when pursuing into FBIGO lances can be used.

 monkeypuzzle wrote:
Yes, that is obvious. Zombie units can grow beyond their starting size, but not over their maximum unit size, which is 40 (or 2D3 for skirmish zombies from the spell, so no adding loads to them). However, what is still NOT clear is when you can add zombies. Do they have to take casualties first, so that you resurrect more than you lost? Or can you add more zombies without having to lose models first? That has been the question since the rules dropped.

Am I missing something? I don't see anything in the Vampire Counts PDF that zombies have an exception to grow beyond starting size. "Resurrecting the Fallen" on page 29 is clear you can't take any unit beyond starting size and explicitly talks about "healing" them so you wouldn't be able to add to it without it having lost figures. From what I am seeing, this even applies to those 2d3 skirmish zombies.

I remember that in 8th you could take them above starting size (especially with newly created units). If this is doable in TOW, I'd certainly like to know as I wouldn't do more than buy a minimal size zombie unit to start.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh hell - I see it now, "The Newly Dead" specifically counters the following sidebar of "Resurrecting the Fallen".

Goddamn you GW, WHY DO YOU DO THIS?

The second might hurt the dragon meta a bit; that's good. I think that they should've done some changes to the army lists, but perhaps they're waiting for the Arcane Journals to all be out beforehand.

My guess is more hard data before making real balance changes. Although I'd like to see Fanatics, and the Beastman twig nerfed. Lance formation fixed, now that it is pretty strictly a downside to small units.

Wish 30k received FAQs like this. Great stuff

Not to bring back the AoS theme but man I wish I had the chance to buy Vanguards BoC. I'd rather have som spare round bases then a fugly tuskgor chariot, that is almost certainly to appear on the Beastmen box. That's the only 'but' I have against the Greenskins box, do I hate the cute-gly piggies the have for the Boar Chariot.

Was the tuskgor chariot not metal? Only plastic minis in the boxes so far so you might be safe.

Yeah, that was a metal kit, with only the Boar bodies being plastic, and their tails I think.

exanimus wrote:
Was the tuskgor chariot not metal? Only plastic minis in the boxes so far so you might be safe.

yeap the tuskgor one was mostly metal, only the boars were plastic and even then they had metal upgrade parts.

So most likely they won't be appearing in the beastman box.

Unless we get a new plastic chariot, but the chances of that happening are next to not happening at all.

Might end up being one of the “resin remasters” like the trebuchet.

Speaking of, any word on when the Marauder Giant will be available?

Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

No info on any sort of box, but the aos purge article specifically mentioned beastmen finding their old (and only) home in TOW

Speaking of which, not sure what everyone else's experience has been like with the forgeworld resin but mine has been great so far. Far cry from the finecrap days. I was concerned initially when they said not all would be plastic like 30k by my concerns have been assuaged.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

No info on any sort of box, but the aos purge article specifically mentioned beastmen finding their old (and only) home in TOW

Didn’t say when tho, could be next up after Dwarfs or a while away

Tuskgor chariot, razorgor chariot, I don't know if any of those was plastic I don't care, I just know that I don't want a chariot pulled by bootleg boar toys instead of proper beasts of Chaos.

 nathan2004 wrote:
Speaking of which, not sure what everyone else's experience has been like with the forgeworld resin but mine has been great so far. Far cry from the finecrap days. I was concerned initially when they said not all would be plastic like 30k by my concerns have been assuaged.

Forgeworld Resin was always better than finecrap, though it has its flaws in larger kits. Infantry sized models from FW are great, though.

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

The Old World* not The old World.

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

Here it is: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/old-world-development-diary-the-main-factions-revealed/

It's not a confirmation of a box set, but it stands to reason that they will be released in tandem with wood elves as a thematic pairing, similar to how they scheduled O&G and Dwarfs. This would leave the obvious pairing of Empire + Warriors of Chaos and a single High Elf slot to round out the first edition of tOW.

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

In the going away article on WarComm, they specifically said the Beastmen are coming back as TOW models.

 CMLR wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

The Old World* not The old World.

Take it up with Androids auto-correct.

 SgtEeveell wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

In the going away article on WarComm, they specifically said the Beastmen are coming back as TOW models.

Oh, that is good news. Might even mean they get a new sculpt or two (Plastic Centigors! - highly unlikely but a man can dream!).

They had some really great art in 6th &7th edition that I found inspirational.

You may just be stuck with the new plastic beast lord, assuming he fits on a square base

 BertBert wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

Here it is: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/old-world-development-diary-the-main-factions-revealed/

It's not a confirmation of a box set, but it stands to reason that they will be released in tandem with wood elves as a thematic pairing, similar to how they scheduled O&G and Dwarfs. This would leave the obvious pairing of Empire + Warriors of Chaos and a single High Elf slot to round out the first edition of tOW.

This conversation is crazy. Why refer to an article on war com when BoC are long established as one of the core factions in the Ravening Hordes book. Also, the greenskins are already released (atleast first wave) and didnt come thematically in tandem with the dwarfs. So the old random speculations of a release patterns was not bad speculation, but GW apparently dont intend to go along that path. They cant even get a single faction released in one go, so still expecting double release sounds unrealistic.

 GaroRobe wrote:
You may just be stuck with the new plastic beast lord, assuming he fits on a square base

The plastic Beastlord just barely fits on a 25mm base, but woe to any model trying to rank up on the right

The Centigor Chieftain might get a sculpt if they don't just reuse Ghorros Warhoof, and I don't imagine the current Doombull is going anywhere unless they want to redo minotaurs entirely. Similar to Orc & Goblin Tribes, the absolute best case scenario I can imagine is one generic hero (likely the centigor) and maybe one special character (likely a particularly funky bray-shaman in the tradition of Malagor and Morghur)

I don't even think most of the resins will be converted back to metal, other than Centigors. The Tuskgor Chariot, Jabberslythe, Dragon Ogre Shaggoth and the Cockatrice are all quite sizeable and will likely just receive the Forge World retooling, if that. If we're lucky, the classic Minotaurs might resurface, maybe restored the range, maybe just an MtO. The real Hail Mary is what we'll get in the Arcane Journal, whether Khorngors and Pestigors can sneak in via Armies of Infamy, or if the diminished role of Chaos in the setting makes them non-starters.

Or I could be completely wrong and they're the last faction to be released because they're going to receive a comprehensive modernizing overhaul, with new minotaurs, plastic chariots and centigors, and a fully represented range of lords and heroes with options. 90% of Beastmen players quit right before they're about to have their day in the sun.

They can go on a 30mm square, should fit on that ok

Obviously I trust anyone with the model on hand to work it out themselves, but on a 30mm you'd be best off positioning the Beastlord with the hooves directly in the middle of each side of the base, as opposed to top left and bottom right on the 25mm. It stops the right axe from blocking anything ranking up, and while it does make the left axe overhang by roughly 5mm, the exalting pose should put it out of the way of most potential neighbours

 Fayric wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Is there confirmation they are doing a Beastmen box for Old World?

I thought they were dunzo.

They were listed as being one of the core factions for ToW.
It was in one of the warCom hype articles back before the game launched. So I don't see why they wouldn't eventually get a box.

Here it is: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/old-world-development-diary-the-main-factions-revealed/

It's not a confirmation of a box set, but it stands to reason that they will be released in tandem with wood elves as a thematic pairing, similar to how they scheduled O&G and Dwarfs. This would leave the obvious pairing of Empire + Warriors of Chaos and a single High Elf slot to round out the first edition of tOW.

This conversation is crazy. Why refer to an article on war com when BoC are long established as one of the core factions in the Ravening Hordes book. Also, the greenskins are already released (atleast first wave) and didnt come thematically in tandem with the dwarfs. So the old random speculations of a release patterns was not bad speculation, but GW apparently dont intend to go along that path. They cant even get a single faction released in one go, so still expecting double release sounds unrealistic.

Except he's talking about pairing like orcs&dwarves are. The dwarves are next in line. So wood elves or boc 1st, then the other. Instant pairing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vorian wrote:
They can go on a 30mm square, should fit on that ok

Which happens to be max size allowed(is there many where both 25 and 30 valid? Knew treelords have multiple but beastlord surprised.

Guess so you can have beastlord on gor(25) and bestigor(30) without messing up formation. Would hate to imagine mixing inside same unit(especially 30mm in 25mm)