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kenshin620 wrote:If Crons/other xenos get to tyranid tier kinda like how it seems DE are, we're gonna have a problem

DE i think are going to be above Tyranid Tier. They have the speed to close with shooty armies on turn 1, and also have the shooting power to soften up assault-oriented armies for 2 turns before they charge.

So true Ketara . . . Please people, if you're going to give some adive, rules or tactics advice . . . then atleast back it up with something . . . not just "I'm better than you because I know I am . . ."

And I don't like the whole 'tier' way of thinking. Yes some armies are easier to use than others (namely marines) but really the tier system is just used as an excuse for losing. Yes it's hard to win with some lists agaisnt others. But please, if you both have all-comers lists, then in all likelyhood it's coming down to luck and the general's skills.

Oshova

Alot of this is the fact, despite what we know of the new rules currently, the army has not been played yet. It's one thing to look at a specific and think, Doom DOOM!!!

I still remain encouraged by the changes I see from the new codex and I'm a Realist not an Optimist. It's apparent that those DE players that have relied on the 'one build to rule them all' will be able to continue to use that one build. I think what has yet to be proven is how other builds can work.

Sorry, I'm not a 'tournament' player and I never will be. Such a thing sucks all the fun out of the game and I prefer to have fun. So yeah, I play lists that will not be power builds, unless I just happen to manage concocting one.

Hulksmash wrote:Current possible list:

Baron Sky-board-105
2xNaken Haemonculi-100

2x3 Trueborn w/2 DL's in Raider-292
6 Incubi w/Sergeant Upgrade and flamer in Raider-222

2x9 Wracks w/Agoniser Sergeant in Raider-360
2x10 Wyches w/HW grenades and Agoniser Sergeant in Raider-420
10 Hellions w/Agoniser Sergeant-185

3xRavagers w/Darklances-315

1,999 and full of nasty. Though I'm not totally sold on my elites. Those are the non-core of my army and subject to change. But it's a decent 17 DL's supported by 5 decent combat units and 1 curbstomper unit.

I kinda like it but I just don't think wracks are good at all, but this is coming from someone who will always prefer warriors. Naked Haemies don't seem to provide much of anything besides give two free pain tokens to the wracks but then their usefulness is gone.

3x ravagers always good, though I'm thinking of trying to axe one of the ravagers and find room for a void raven. I think its a great vehicle but I also might be suffering from a "new toy" feel.

I can't really say much though because my LGS can't get a codex so without really reading it for myself I can't really comment on a list, I just posting what I think looks good.

Amaya wrote:Anyone else think Lelith Hesperax sucks now?

Sucks? What have you been smoking? Thatl girl 10 attacks on the charge against marines and when she helps wipe a squad gains feel no pain then try 10 S4 Furious charging attacks. Oh ya shes horrible lol.

My to buy list at the mo is as follows.(I already have an Archon)

HQ-Two Haemonculi

Elite:- two squads of five warriors, with 4 blasters each, and a unit of five Incubi

Troops:-One squad of ten warriors with one lance, one squad of ten wyches, two squads of ten wracks

Fast Attack: One Squad of 5 scourges, with two splinter cannons, one squad of three jetbikes with a blaster

Heavy Support: Two Ravagers with Disintegrators, one Void Raven(assuming that's the one with two void lances)

Transports: 3 Venoms, 4 Raiders

Mind totalling that all up points wise for me Hulksmash? I don't have the codex in front of me right now, so it's difficult to estimate the points cost. That's roughly the 1500 point first list I'm looking at collecting to feel out the army.

CajunMan550 wrote:

Amaya wrote:Anyone else think Lelith Hesperax sucks now?

Sucks? What have you been smoking? Thatl girl 10 attacks on the charge against marines and when she helps wipe a squad gains feel no pain then try 10 S4 Furious charging attacks. Oh ya shes horrible lol.

She's also only s3, only t3, not eternal and 80 points more expensive than she used to be. And she doesn't have poisoned weapons or combat drugs. So yes, I think she sucks now.

It's around 1800 with the all the squads being naked and no upgrades on the raiders/venoms.

*whistles*
It has to be said, the new list does seem to be a lot pricier. I used to be able to easily fit 4 troops, 3 heavy support and an HQ into a 1000 points.

Thanks for the add up.

Amaya wrote:

CajunMan550 wrote:

Amaya wrote:Anyone else think Lelith Hesperax sucks now?

Sucks? What have you been smoking? Thatl girl 10 attacks on the charge against marines and when she helps wipe a squad gains feel no pain then try 10 S4 Furious charging attacks. Oh ya shes horrible lol.

She's also only s3, only t3, not eternal and 80 points more expensive than she used to be. And she doesn't have poisoned weapons or combat drugs. So yes, I think she sucks now.

She does have a PW though, and the opponent isn't suppose to survive her swinging first I believe is the point. By herself sure she sucks but I believe she needs a body guard to soak up the majority of hits. But really if you bring along wyches with her or incubi theres not many things that'll live to swing back.

CajunMan550 wrote:

Amaya wrote:Anyone else think Lelith Hesperax sucks now?

Sucks? What have you been smoking? Thatl girl 10 attacks on the charge against marines and when she helps wipe a squad gains feel no pain then try 10 S4 Furious charging attacks. Oh ya shes horrible lol.

I think what he's saying is she lost the Agonizer. So it will be harder for her to wound stuff, but she stills ignores armor if I'm not mistaken. It is very sad, however, that she probably can't fight Demon Princes and such anymore. She also used to come with a Shadow Field. Now She'll be lost to Instant Death more often. Plus, she used to be allowed to choose her combat drug result. Now she gets no drugs. Overall, she gained some neat stuff, but she also lost some very nice things.

CajunMan550 wrote:

Amaya wrote:

CajunMan550 wrote:

Amaya wrote:Anyone else think Lelith Hesperax sucks now?

Sucks? What have you been smoking? Thatl girl 10 attacks on the charge against marines and when she helps wipe a squad gains feel no pain then try 10 S4 Furious charging attacks. Oh ya shes horrible lol.

She's also only s3, only t3, not eternal and 80 points more expensive than she used to be. And she doesn't have poisoned weapons or combat drugs. So yes, I think she sucks now.

She does have a PW though, and the opponent isn't suppose to survive her swinging first I believe is the point. By herself sure she sucks but I believe she needs a body guard to soak up the majority of hits. But really if you bring along wyches with her or incubi theres not many things that'll live to swing back.

Succubus's will be better imo.

Archonate wrote:

CajunMan550 wrote:

Amaya wrote:Anyone else think Lelith Hesperax sucks now?

Sucks? What have you been smoking? Thatl girl 10 attacks on the charge against marines and when she helps wipe a squad gains feel no pain then try 10 S4 Furious charging attacks. Oh ya shes horrible lol.

I think what he's saying is she lost the Agonizer. So it will be harder for her to wound stuff, but she stills ignores armor if I'm not mistaken. It is very sad, however, that she probably can't fight Demon Princes and such anymore. She also used to come with a Shadow Field. Now She'll be lost to Instant Death more often. Plus, she used to be allowed to choose her combat drug result. Now she gets no drugs. Overall, she gained some neat stuff, but she also lost some very nice things.

If you played by the rules like me, she never got the drugs.

But yeah, she has very different targets now. DP and TMC are the targets of Warriors now.

Lelith will rock when you juice her. It's easy to get her up to S5. People just want automatic win. Well it looks like DE are a thinker's army. Maybe Phil is maturing now.

Lelith can't take drugs...

And Yes, Phil "I REALLY WANTED TO DO TYRANIDS THIS TIME" Kelly has done a good job on this.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:Lelith will rock when you juice her. It's easy to get her up to S5. People just want automatic win. Well it looks like DE are a thinker's army. Maybe Phil is maturing now.

You can only get her to s4.

Oshova wrote:Skarboy good work . . . just one thing . . . AFAIK the Agoniser isn't poison, it's just 4+ to wound . . . so the bonus strength make no difference. (unless you want easier wounds on Gants, but leaving them with a save . . . I'll let someone else mathhammer that one )

Oshova

You are correct, my mistake. Even with that adjustment, I'll stand on the overall assertion that wyches are fine and probably even better once folks understand the nuances of the wych weapons and other supporting options better.

Think again. Please read the codex and don't rely upon a troll. Seriously.

Who thinks an all Hellion army would be cool?

It would be very cool. Cosmic surfboards for the win dude.

So Wracks have the same leadership as Wyches and Warriors? It seems odd that haemunculi have lower leadership than the wrack leader.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:It would be very cool. Cosmic surfboards for the win dude.

Do you get bonus victory points if you pull tricks while surfing the webway?

Regarding Lelith,
she is WS 9, if i recall, marines will only hit her on a 5,6?
She has the shard net modifier, so thats -1 attack per model in base to base contact. She can have 9-12 attacks. Thats 6-9 hits, and 2-3 wounds. If working with the theoretical 10 marine squad, then thats 7-8 left. Of their7-8 attacks, hitting on 5, 6's, then thats, 1.5 to maybe 3 at best hits. She has
a 4+ so chances are good she will save and continue to wreak havoc the next round.
I might not jump Lysander with her, but troop type units are going to take a bleeding.

So besides the Voidlance, do DE have anything that can destroy a Necron Monolith?

Archonate wrote:So besides the Voidlance, do DE have anything that can destroy a Necron Monolith?

Did i see Haywire grandes somewhere?

They have quite a lot of S10 so yes they can smash liths.

I would give up some major props for a cosmic surfer army any day dude.

does anyone know if you have 2 units in cc with a single unit and they win do both units get a pain token?

For those who can look at the codex...

What recommendations or descriptions for models does the codex have for the following unit types as most (if not all) are now gone from the website or new:

* Scourges
* Wracks
* Grosteques (mis-spelled)
* Venom
* Razorwing
* Voidraven
* Beastmasters Beasts (three are three types I think?)

Thanks.

Oshova wrote:So true Ketara . . . Please people, if you're going to give some adive, rules or tactics advice . . . then atleast back it up with something . . . not just "I'm better than you because I know I am . . ."

And I don't like the whole 'tier' way of thinking. Yes some armies are easier to use than others (namely marines) but really the tier system is just used as an excuse for losing. Yes it's hard to win with some lists agaisnt others. But please, if you both have all-comers lists, then in all likelyhood it's coming down to luck and the general's skills.

Oshova

This.

What I like so far about the new book is that it seems a lot of the suggested lists being posted online are moving away from the usual spam lists. I'm seeing a lot of people thinking of taking a wide variety of units, that is good, and means that GW did a good job writing the codex.

rodgers37 wrote:

Archonate wrote:So besides the Voidlance, do DE have anything that can destroy a Necron Monolith?

Did i see Haywire grandes somewhere?

Scourges can have Haywire Grenade Launchers, but it is a weapon choice, just like a Dark Lance or a Blaster. However, it does have a 24" range and it does count as a haywire grenade, so a pretty reliable glance, at least, if not a pen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ketara wrote:

Elite:- two squads of five warriors, with 4 blasters each, and a unit of five Incubi

I keep seeing this. Since they're just elite troops, I wonder if they'll be making any different models. Otherwise, 8 blasters may require 8 boxes of troops, if there's 1 blaster per.