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The Excavator needs new arms. The cartoony drill could be much improved by replacing it with either one of those contra-rotating rock drills or one of the narrower ones used for boring holes for explosives, and the other arm needs to be more capable of actually picking things up and holding them.

Schnorkel works well for what it is, but what it is is unexciting.

Schnorkel is probably very popular in the red light district.

Corporation cruise liners must be packing some serious heat if they take out the entire star system when they explode.

Not sure how well that bit of background is going to sit with future space battles unless they're fought at extreme distances well, well away from any star.

Also, it'd make things terribly easy for the Rebs, sneak one suicide bomber on a cruise ship headed to Earth, pull the trigger and boom, no more council of seven.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Corporation cruise liners must be packing some serious heat if they take out the entire star system when they explode.

Not sure how well that bit of background is going to sit with future space battles unless they're fought at extreme distances well, well away from any star.

Also, it'd make things terribly easy for the Rebs, sneak one suicide bomber on a cruise ship headed to Earth, pull the trigger and boom, no more council of seven.

Rather than say "Do better", I'm going to say how they should do better:

The flavour text as written has been designed specifically to make it irrelevant to the universe as a whole, since the Elastopods do not matter except as backstory for this one individual. This removes whatever slim incentive there is to add the worst elements.

With this in mind, make Schnorkel's race control a single planet, and not a number of planets. If you're going to wipe out everyone but one individual, making them implausibly widespread beforehand is counterproductive. For that matter, the entire race need not be wiped out - Schnorkel's motivation is no less important if merely 90% of the population was killed and not 99.9999%.

Two, stop pulling this "The Corporation is equal parts stupid and evil" nonsense. Have Schnorkel's people be the victim of collateral damage from a space battle in that system and not the victims of an implausibly destructive malfunction on a civilian ship. This explains why Schnorkel was discovered and didn't merely starve to death in the depths of space - because there was something worth fighting over in the system, a place where Schnorkel could have ended up, and also provides a plausible mechanism for how Schnorkel could actually discover the Blue Flag Company was responsible.

It was randomly destroyed by Gwar, works for everything!

 AlexHolker wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Corporation cruise liners must be packing some serious heat if they take out the entire star system when they explode.

Not sure how well that bit of background is going to sit with future space battles unless they're fought at extreme distances well, well away from any star.

Also, it'd make things terribly easy for the Rebs, sneak one suicide bomber on a cruise ship headed to Earth, pull the trigger and boom, no more council of seven.

Rather than say "Do better", I'm going to say how they should do better:

The flavour text as written has been designed specifically to make it irrelevant to the universe as a whole, since the Elastopods do not matter except as backstory for this one individual. This removes whatever slim incentive there is to add the worst elements.

With this in mind, make Schnorkel's race control a single planet, and not a number of planets. If you're going to wipe out everyone but one individual, making them implausibly widespread beforehand is counterproductive. For that matter, the entire race need not be wiped out - Schnorkel's motivation is no less important if merely 90% of the population was killed and not 99.9999%.

Two, stop pulling this "The Corporation is equal parts stupid and evil" nonsense. Have Schnorkel's people be the victim of collateral damage from a space battle in that system and not the victims of an implausibly destructive malfunction on a civilian ship. This explains why Schnorkel was discovered and didn't merely starve to death in the depths of space - because there was something worth fighting over in the system, a place where Schnorkel could have ended up, and also provides a plausible mechanism for how Schnorkel could actually discover the Blue Flag Company was responsible.

Agreed, with the last part in particular. When they posted this for the Sphyr, it's amusing. When it becomes pattern, it's obnoxious. It's particularly obnoxious when somehow all these other races with space empires seem to be avoiding all the same mistakes. Do people really hate the human race that much these days that we have be written in as "incompetent bad guys". If the free market is controlling humanity, there'd be plenty of Corporations who make excessive attempts to be peacekeepers, who try to be unscrupulously honest, and who try to be Eco friendly. Why would they operate this way? Because just like people buy things that say "recycled", "organic", and "sends proceeds to breast cancer" in this day and age, corporations would use these same principles to build their empires in what Mantic has put together.

If you are going to make a Capitalist Star Empire, at least do it right


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and less then 25 frenzy packages left

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Schnorkel is probably very popular in the red light district.

Eurgh!

As of writing just 24 Frenzy pledges left before they are all gone.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Schnorkel is probably very popular in the red light district.

Not unless you want fifty hickeys.

Earth Dragon wrote:
If the free market is controlling humanity, there'd be plenty of Corporations who make excessive attempts to be peacekeepers, who try to be unscrupulously honest, and who try to be Eco friendly. Why would they operate this way? Because just like people buy things that say "recycled", "organic", and "sends proceeds to breast cancer" in this day and age, corporations would use these same principles to build their empires in what Mantic has put together.

Maybe a few such corps exist, but you don't hear about them because they're not major players, just like in the real world.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
If the free market is controlling humanity, there'd be plenty of Corporations who make excessive attempts to be peacekeepers, who try to be unscrupulously honest, and who try to be Eco friendly. Why would they operate this way? Because just like people buy things that say "recycled", "organic", and "sends proceeds to breast cancer" in this day and age, corporations would use these same principles to build their empires in what Mantic has put together.

Maybe a few such corps exist, but you don't hear about them because they're not major players, just like in the real world.

They would be in Mantic's world, because the previous major players all choked on their puppy sandwiches. Realpolitik evil is a fine concept for a faction, but that only works if they're not complete and utter morons. Mantic keeps writing them as complete and utter morons, and cannot comprehend that this doesn't fething work.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
If the free market is controlling humanity, there'd be plenty of Corporations who make excessive attempts to be peacekeepers, who try to be unscrupulously honest, and who try to be Eco friendly. Why would they operate this way? Because just like people buy things that say "recycled", "organic", and "sends proceeds to breast cancer" in this day and age, corporations would use these same principles to build their empires in what Mantic has put together.

Maybe a few such corps exist, but you don't hear about them because they're not major players, just like in the real world.

They would be in Mantic's world, because the previous major players all choked on their puppy sandwiches. Realpolitik evil is a fine concept for a faction, but that only works if they're not complete and utter morons. Mantic keeps writing them as complete and utter morons, and cannot comprehend that this doesn't fething work.

Throughout history, most of the big failings of corporations have been easily preventable, but they opted not to do so because it would be too expensive, out of just good old arrogance or because they had set themselves up to profit from the failing.

The Corporations of Mantic's world don't wake up and say "how many puppies can we choke today?" they simply care about what will make them the most money. If a million puppies have to be choked to do so, fine, as long as they're puppies over there I don't care. Puppy murder doesn't factor into the plan unless more space bucks can be made doing that then by not doing that.

It's about hyperbolic greed, and when all you care about is chasing the bottom line you will do a lot of stupid things as a result because you don't take in the whole picture. You don't have to look particularly far to see that in action in the world. Games Workshop dominates the miniatures market, yet pulls such bone-headed policies out that it boggles the mind. It will then use the fall-out of their bone-headed policies to justify further bone-headedness and...well, we all know where that leads.

Only a dozen Frenzy pledges left, they'll soon be gone.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
If the free market is controlling humanity, there'd be plenty of Corporations who make excessive attempts to be peacekeepers, who try to be unscrupulously honest, and who try to be Eco friendly. Why would they operate this way? Because just like people buy things that say "recycled", "organic", and "sends proceeds to breast cancer" in this day and age, corporations would use these same principles to build their empires in what Mantic has put together.

Maybe a few such corps exist, but you don't hear about them because they're not major players, just like in the real world.

I could buy that they aren't a member of the counsel of 7, but a 2nd rate player could easily be built on sound concepts.

Not all musicians are stoner junkies. Not all politicians are corrupt soulless husks. Not all athletes care about getting paid more then they care about playing well.

Earth Dragon wrote:
I could buy that they aren't a member of the counsel of 7, but a 2nd rate player could easily be built on sound concepts.

And then they get at the very least pushed aside and trivialized by a powerful, less/unethical corp, or more likely just absorbed or destroyed. It happens here in our relatively decent democracies. Corps will be bought out, they'll be undercut out of markets, they'll be lawyered to bankrupcy or patent screwed... imagine how bad it would be when the corporations have their own *armies*.

Also, not a fan of the sphyr thing, unless it's quickly expanded upon that it's a cover story for an intentional corporation operation.

 Krinsath wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
If the free market is controlling humanity, there'd be plenty of Corporations who make excessive attempts to be peacekeepers, who try to be unscrupulously honest, and who try to be Eco friendly. Why would they operate this way? Because just like people buy things that say "recycled", "organic", and "sends proceeds to breast cancer" in this day and age, corporations would use these same principles to build their empires in what Mantic has put together.

Maybe a few such corps exist, but you don't hear about them because they're not major players, just like in the real world.

They would be in Mantic's world, because the previous major players all choked on their puppy sandwiches. Realpolitik evil is a fine concept for a faction, but that only works if they're not complete and utter morons. Mantic keeps writing them as complete and utter morons, and cannot comprehend that this doesn't fething work.

Throughout history, most of the big failings of corporations have been easily preventable, but they opted not to do so because it would be too expensive, out of just good old arrogance or because they had set themselves up to profit from the failing.

The Corporations of Mantic's world don't wake up and say "how many puppies can we choke today?" they simply care about what will make them the most money. If a million puppies have to be choked to do so, fine, as long as they're puppies over there I don't care. Puppy murder doesn't factor into the plan unless more space bucks can be made doing that then by not doing that.

It's about hyperbolic greed, and when all you care about is chasing the bottom line you will do a lot of stupid things as a result because you don't take in the whole picture. You don't have to look particularly far to see that in action in the world. Games Workshop dominates the miniatures market, yet pulls such bone-headed policies out that it boggles the mind. It will then use the fall-out of their bone-headed policies to justify further bone-headedness and...well, we all know where that leads.

But, as Alex is stating, another company with revised policies from how GW is operating and start to snag some of the business from disenfranchised customers. This is not a complex economic concept. It's rather rudimentary.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yonan wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
I could buy that they aren't a member of the counsel of 7, but a 2nd rate player could easily be built on sound concepts.

And then they get at the very least pushed aside and trivialized by a powerful, less/unethical corp, or more likely just absorbed or destroyed. It happens here in our relatively decent democracies. Corps will be bought out, they'll be undercut out of markets, they'll be lawyered to bankrupcy or patent screwed... imagine how bad it would be when the corporations have their own *armies*.

Also, not a fan of the sphyr thing, unless it's quickly expanded upon that it's a cover story for an intentional corporation operation.

Even more reason for corporation that has a little more ethical backing to arise and draw in employees. Some of you are acting like the same things drive all human beings.

Earth Dragon wrote:
Even more reason for corporation that has a little more ethical backing to arise and draw in employees. Some of you are acting like the same things drive all human beings.

You don't seem to understand that an unscrupulous corporation will always be able to out-compete a more ethical one in any number of ways. Try to find a fair-trade retail chain in the real world and see how it compares to Walmart. It's not going to be 2nd tier. Not even 3rd or 4th or 5thy or 6th tier.

And in the Mantic future, media is even more controlled than presently and customers will be even less aware of the ethical issues, and so even less inclined to support more expensive products. There is absolutely no way for that kind of business to grow beyond a corner store on some lame-ass planet, if that. And only because it's too small for the big boys to bother destroying.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You don't seem to understand that an unscrupulous corporation will always be able to out-compete a more ethical one in any number of ways.

Only if you're smart and unethical. According to this latest flavour text, Mantic's corporations literally use doomsday weapons in their own systems for entertainment. You cannot out-compete a more ethical competitor if your idea of realpolitik is to stick a shotgun in your own mouth and pull the trigger.

Earth Dragon wrote:
Even more reason for corporation that has a little more ethical backing to arise and draw in employees. Some of you are acting like the same things drive all human beings.

It doesn't need to drive all, just most. You can see it now in the West. The US, UK and Aus all have large problems with their governments - but they get re-elected because the majority of people just don't care. Most people simply don't care what's happening to other people, so long as they live their own little comfortable lives. In Mantics corporate future, if you have a job in a "core" world, you'll live a very comfortable life, with Dreaball hyped to the EXTREEEEME in the media, keeping the populace distracted. As Blackfang says, the media is even more controlled. People not only don't care - they don't even know.

A 40k comparison - people wouldn't even know the Sphyr world was destroyed if the Imperium didn't want them to know. If it could be lauded as a victory over Xenos, it would be spread far and wide. If it accidentally destroyed a loyal hive planet... no one would know about it, it would just have been "cut off by a warp storm". When the governing bodies have such supreme power, it's virtually impossible to fight it. The Rebs are trying in the Manticverse, but they've already been crushed once and the core worlds probably don't even know about them, or they're sold as "Osama and the Taliban" more likely.

It's a goofball sci-fi universe running off popular sci-fi clichees, including the "evil/greedy/unscrupulous megacorp" from Weyland-Yutani to various Cyberpunk to Umbrella Corporation.

I don't think Mantic is trying to draw a "realistic" far-future economics scenario, not any more than GW is suggesting that weaponised chainsaws will be a staple of intergalactic future warfare.

Even Mantic admitted it was more an oddity that their two "Humans wipe out their species/home world" were released right beside each other.

If profit is the bottomline, finding every market niche there is to find would reign. it would just be more entertaining lore (and realistic) to attack all sides and not just look at the negativities that could be caused. It's less black and white then "big business can only be evil and incompetent".

I got an answer for anyone wondering about metal minis in this kickstarter happening at the last minute:

@ SS - lol at the way the question is framed. All of the teams, giants and Mvps are pre-assembled plastic (except for the Robots and Plague with are plastic but not assembled). We're not doing booster you'll notice

It was also not an accountants decision. It relieved a whole load of tooling pressure as well and meant you guys got stuff on time (and the opinion was the casting was a lot better too).

@ SS - it was both. The volumes that we did through the KS weren't enough, which was validated through Trade. The plastic S1+2 booster releases wouldn't have warranted them being in plastic, hence the change for Xtreme. You will get more variety in your initial starter team, and they come with prones.

And they did it before with the Judwan, which were basically "James Cameron Na'vi that didn't fight back"

The "problem" with Xtreme is their underground-theme, yet most of the recent teams are all still varieties of fancy aliens, which probably would've made more sense in a general DreadBall theme, but now need to have some "this is why they are illegal" argument build into it.

Before this Kickstarter started, I rather expected it to be less focussed on varieties of exotic aliens than DBO was, with more (parody of) criminal elements... Convicts, not-Italian-Mafia, not-Chinese-Triads, not-Yakuza, etc.,, but they oddly stuck with the "exotic-aliens" angle for some reason or another, trying to "make it work" for the "illegal"-theme in one way or another.

3 frenzies left

SS- Lol at "and the opinion was the casting was a lot better, too". Why bother talking to them, that's a bald-faced lie and they know it =(

I'd rather they just said "We fethed up last time (again). It won't happen again (for reals this time)".


Grrrrr...

 Zweischneid wrote:
And they did it before with the Judwan, which were basically "James Cameron Na'vi that didn't fight back"

The "problem" with Xtreme is their underground-theme, yet most of the recent teams are all still varieties of fancy aliens, which probably would've made more sense in a general DreadBall theme, but now need to have some "this is why they are illegal" argument build into it.

Before this Kickstarter started, I rather expected it to be less focussed on varieties of exotic aliens than DBO was, with more (parody of) criminal elements... Convicts, not-Italian-Mafia, not-Chinese-Triads, not-Yakuza, etc.,, but they oddly stuck with the "exotic-aliens" angle for some reason or another, trying to "make it work" for the "illegal"-theme in one way or another.

Valid point yet different category. This was a bit more intentional then "Dag nabbit!! Who let Gomer punch in the coordinates again" sort of scenarios. To reiterate, Mantic did mention it was more rare then it was being made out to be with virtually back to back "mistakes" causing travesty amongst races.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
SS- Lol at "and the opinion was the casting was a lot better, too". Why bother talking to them, that's a bald-faced lie and they know it =(

I'd rather they just said "We fethed up last time (again). It won't happen again (for reals this time)".


Grrrrr...

So if they thought the casting wasn't the greatest and the new formula was going to caste better, how is this in any way a lie?

Added another quote to my last post.. basically they lost money on the tooling of the S1 and S2 booster sets in restic (even counting retail sales).

They just weren't popular for whatever reason despite the main team sets selling well.

So, this time around that's why there's no boosters, just some extra sculpt variety in the first two teams so far.

Earth Dragon wrote:


Valid point yet different category. This was a bit more intentional and "Dag nabbit!! Who let Gomer punch in the coordinates again" sort of scenarios. To reiterate, Mantic did mention it was more rare then it was being made out to be with virtually back to back "mistakes" causing travesty amongst races.

Possibly.

Still, the bridge Mantic needs to cross is why they are illegal in the GCPS, cause it's Xxxxxtreeeemme!

Mantic Designer One: Let's make Rock-aliens for DreadBall.
Mantic Designer Two: Let's make Fish-aliens for DreadBall.

Mantic's Kickstarter Guru: Sounds cool, but we're done with DreadBall, we are doin' Xxxxxtreeeeme. We need a reason why the GCPS hates those guys and doesn't want the public to see them.

Mantic Designers: How about the GCPS fethed up and wants the universe to "forget about them".

Mantic's Kickstarter Guru: Good enough, go with it.



The alternative of .. say ... Fish-aliens' planet got wiped out by accident (or purpose) by ... dunno ... Asterians or the Plague or Veer-Myn doesn't work, cause it provides no reason for them to be "illegal" in the GCPS and forced into the underground of DreadBall Xtreme.

Earth- that quote refers to their Horrible metal casts swapped in for Dreadball last time. If you get all plastic this time, good. And good luck

I have all teams but only 1 booster - my beautiful Z'zor. I couldn't justify the boosters for the other teams when it really didn't seem so essential to get them. I think this is a better way to do it. More poses from the start, since the limited poses initially was ... undesirable.

Any thoughts on how doable it will be to customize a team of Crystallen for Deadzone?

Another question - do teams come with clear bases, blue bases, red bases, random bases... ?

TBH I'd probably prefer they quickly retconned the accidental blow up, or at least retconned it to include that it was announced as accidental (or some other reaosn) when the real reason was that they were looking for something. Incompetence is often an excuse in corporations though - someone gets fired with a golden parachute, then business goes on as usual.

 Zweischneid wrote:
The "problem" with Xtreme is their underground-theme, yet most of the recent teams are all still varieties of fancy aliens, which probably would've made more sense in a general DreadBall theme, but now need to have some "this is why they are illegal" argument build into it.

Before this Kickstarter started, I rather expected it to be less focussed on varieties of exotic aliens than DBO was, with more (parody of) criminal elements... Convicts, not-Italian-Mafia, not-Chinese-Triads, not-Yakuza, etc.,, but they oddly stuck with the "exotic-aliens" angle for some reason or another, trying to "make it work" for the "illegal"-theme in one way or another.

Make one of the Season Six teams a bunch of deserters with military grade cybernetics.