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 LordofHats wrote:
It's not even necessarily nefarious. Why would you manufacture a mother board to have a life longer than say, 8 or so years? The technology in it will be obsolete in 3. Decrepit in 5. As much as we romanticize building things to last, the markets clearly do not value things that last. Just look at how old apartment complexes sell verses new ones, or recently renovated buildings. Not everything needs to last, is value to last past a certain date, and depending on the market there just isn't value in making something to keep using use years after initial production.

Ohh, I'm not putting forward the idea because I agree with it, my MBA education shows what you're saying to be true. . . However, even when I was in school, we read an article about how France viewed certain industrial sectors' timetables for planned obsolescence to be "unacceptable" and apparently limited it in some way? (I really don't remember much of the details of the article, other than it focused on washing machines, and forcing companies to make spare/repair parts for longer periods of time)

Things like motherboards and computer electronics make sense to have relatively short lifespans. . . But on the other side of the expectancy issue are automobiles. So, I work at a car dealership that carries GM vehicles. I find it utterly ridiculous at times that I'm seeing model year 2013 cars with completely discontinued parts, and that's just the year where I can start to "regularly" expect it. I've seen a couple 2015 and 16 model vehicles with parts discontinued, and of a type of part where aftermarket companies simply do not exist to create those parts thereby leaving my shop's customers with the sticky situation of having spent 40k on a vehicle that now has parts they cannot get for a repair that could keep that vehicle going, or drop another 40k+ on a "new" vehicle that, well, frankly is just a poorly made as the one they have in the shop. It's not that there's some "conspiracy" here, its just that GM, and I've noticed the other US domestic companies have similar views, focuses solely on getting people to buy the new product, and really don't give 2 flying rats hind-ends about you after you leave the lot.

Objects like automobiles, dishwashing machines, clothes washing machines, microwaves, etc. aren't (IMO) like computers where there will be some new thing that makes them totally obsolete (like motherboards above). . . And the pull from opposing views obviously means that someone is gonna "lose out" when the service life of a given item is being discussed.

 LordofHats wrote:
As much as we romanticize building things to last, the markets clearly do not value things that last. Just look at how old apartment complexes sell verses new ones, or recently renovated buildings.

Gee whizz do I wish this was true locally.

EDIT: on second reading, I do wonder if I've misunderstood you. I think you're saying that the market doesn't value things built to last so older dwellings are cheaper than new ones? Very much not my experience - where new glasses in the same street as those from 1900 are half their price (with the same number of rooms, albeit usually a bit smaller). Folks love an old building.

Firmly on topic: no, planned obsolescence isn't a conspiracy theory, and I think it's tenuous even to call it a conspiracy. It's pretty open business practice.

It's also a red flag as a business practice for consumers or should be. It's unsustainable for the environment and one of the key aspects in the way of making the world more green, the model needs to switch back to built to last and easy/price effective to repair. Recycling is all well and good but some people/governments do not do it or are lazy with it to the point it just ends up in landfill anyway.

Also, the topic that you do not want to be discussed... Quite interesting, considering I've had a fair few PM's about it now, and the past history of mods defending such talk... This forum really is an absolute cess pit.

Concerning planned obsolescence: in the 1920s, the major lightbulb makers of the world created the Phoebus cartel, which determined how long a lightbulb was supposed to last and actually fined companies if theirs lasted too long. They argued that they chose a relatively short lifetime for reasons of efficiency. It's not like they wanted to eliminate competition and artificially inflate demand. Not at all...

That kind of conspiracy (companies agreeing to share their market instead of competing for it) happens pretty often, actually.

Once companies reach a certain size there isn't really that much more market they can take and competing to fight over the remaining parts with other big firms is very expensive. So the established firms find it easier to simply play with each other rather than upset the balance and enter an "arms race" situation.

That's why one of the ways new firms will break into a market is to upset that balance. Sony did it when they wanted a slice of the camera market. They invested insane money into sensor development and blazed past Canon and Nikon - to the point that Nikon just bought Sony sensors. Sony wasn't part of the established game and they wanted a slice of the pie so they upset the balance.



Several major UK supermarkets also got caught fixing prices for dairy products; lowering the price paid to the supplier and raising the price to the customer. On its one one company couldn't do it; but when several of the big names all agreed to do it they can get away with it. Because those suppliers can't go to anyone else because the price to all the major companies that could take their product was going down; similarly customers weren't able to go anywhere else because the price at all the major supermarkets was going up.


It's not so much a conspiracy as it simply is the practicalities of big business. Sure its not always legal, but they'll risk it and see if they get away with it

 LordofHats wrote:
It's not even necessarily nefarious. Why would you manufacture a mother board to have a life longer than say, 8 or so years? The technology in it will be obsolete in 3. Decrepit in 5. As much as we romanticize building things to last, the markets clearly do not value things that last. Just look at how old apartment complexes sell verses new ones, or recently renovated buildings. Not everything needs to last, is valued to last past a certain date, and depending on the market there just isn't value in making something to keep using years after initial production.

It depends entirely where you live and materials used. A solidely made build made from proper masonery, brick.work.and materials will last centuries. We have edwardian houses all over here. Some crappy thing made off wood and plaster is going to devalue quickly.

Motherboards and electrics I can get understand the technology with these things is ever rapidly advancing.

But for example cars(even very expensive cars) get packed full of parts these days that will need to be replaced after 70000 miles. Things were always brraking but it was very common to see a car with 240000 miles on the clpck back in the day now cars barely make 120k before they are scrapped.


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 Overread wrote:
Once companies reach a certain size there isn't really that much more market they can take and competing to fight over the remaining parts with other big firms is very expensive. So the established firms find it easier to simply play with each other rather than upset the balance and enter an "arms race" situation.

That's why one of the ways new firms will break into a market is to upset that balance. Sony did it when they wanted a slice of the camera market. They invested insane money into sensor development and blazed past Canon and Nikon - to the point that Nikon just bought Sony sensors. Sony wasn't part of the established game and they wanted a slice of the pie so they upset the balance.



Several major UK supermarkets also got caught fixing prices for dairy products; lowering the price paid to the supplier and raising the price to the customer. On its one one company couldn't do it; but when several of the big names all agreed to do it they can get away with it. Because those suppliers can't go to anyone else because the price to all the major companies that could take their product was going down; similarly customers weren't able to go anywhere else because the price at all the major supermarkets was going up.


It's not so much a conspiracy as it simply is the practicalities of big business. Sure its not always legal, but they'll risk it and see if they get away with it

I was looking into loans recently when i was buying a new car. Very pecular that every single bank/ institution advertised a rate of 3.9% based on 51% of applicants yet when you go through the application steps not a single one stays at 3.9 and all of them.shoot up to 9.9%. Some dont tell you right until the very end and you read the final documents. That certainly seems like collusion to me.

Similar happened with the new overdraft rules.

The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) wanted greater clarity for consumers about the costs of overdraft borrowing. So they said it had to be expressed as an APR %.

Suddenly, major high street banks all declare something like 49.9% APR.

FCA aren’t especially happy, and are asking the banks how they came to that figure.

Clearly the lesson here is that Democrats are mole people.

Pretty much a valid description of CS.

Unfortunately conspiracies (and in businesses that's called collusion) it does happen.

But saying that LED light bulbs are now advertised at 25 000 hours when they were advertised at 75 000 hours when they were introduced is different to saying vaccines cause complacent dumb workforces.

Can you put that image in spoiler tags?
Its stupidly big and bright.

Voss wrote:
Can you put that image in spoiler tags?
Its stupidly big and bright.

Gah, sorry.

Thanks to whoever did that.

On the flat earth topic, the videos I watch debunking it tend to feature people with a religious take on it.

So whilst it’s probably best not to share the video directly, jump on YouTube and have a search for SciManDan, and Baldycatz/Conspiracy Catz.

SciManDan is pretty laid back, preferring to be factual. Catz is also factual, but does more mickey taking. But, neither criticises the religions, just the person making wild and wacky claims.

Through them you’ll also find others. I like `Creakyblinder.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the flat earth topic, the videos I watch debunking it tend to feature people with a religious take on it.

So whilst it’s probably best not to share the video directly, jump on YouTube and have a search for SciManDan, and Baldycatz/Conspiracy Catz.

SciManDan is pretty laid back, preferring to be factual. Catz is also factual, but does more mickey taking. But, neither criticises the religions, just the person making wild and wacky claims.

Through them you’ll also find others. I like `Creakyblinder.

SciManDan is one of my favourite Youtubers. I especially love his comment videos. "ScamManGay is GAAAAAAY!" "Yeah? What if I was? I'm still correct."

Baldy/Conspiracy is also a firm favourite. I do tend to enjoy the better spoken producers like them, Professor Stick, Genetically Modified Sceptic, Paulogia, Viced Rhino and the like, (although Paulogia and VR are more into the religion thing.) For the equally eloquent yet crasser, Godless Engineer, Shannon Q, FTFE, Logicked and some others.

Most of them do dabble in conspiracy theory explanations.

SciMan's Tinfoil Tuesday is a must.

All these current Pedo Ring conspiracies remind me of the good old Satanic Panic of the 80s that impacted D&D of course, but had much more serious actual consequences in Daycares.....


https://www.vox.com/2016/10/30/13413864/satanic-panic-ritual-abuse-history-explained

There were people still serving time in Jail in 2016 over that one. This stuff can have actual real world consequences.

People are going to get shot this iteration. It’s only a matter of time.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
People are going to get shot this iteration. It’s only a matter of time.

Shots fired.....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/22/us/pizzagate-attack-sentence.html

Old news, but the shots have all ready been fired, and some one is facing serious consequences.

 Easy E wrote:
All these current Pedo Ring conspiracies remind me of the good old Satanic Panic of the 80s that impacted D&D of course, but had much more serious actual consequences in Daycares.....


https://www.vox.com/2016/10/30/13413864/satanic-panic-ritual-abuse-history-explained

There were people still serving time in Jail in 2016 over that one. This stuff can have actual real world consequences.

It is basically satanic panic in a new form for a lot of the believers.

And sadly we don't have the comedy of Chick Tracts this time around.

Do not worry, for the humor will allways persist.

TBF though the whole pedo conspiracies seem also impacted again by some huge cases.
Like the one in Germany right now, which was so brutal that the media had to be left out...
79 crimes and the leading investigator states that it is only the suface they scratched on.

Or Epstein.

Or Or Or.
Also these cases seem omnipresent.

It’s the same old issue though of those crimes previously being hushed up at all levels of society.

Now the cat is out of the bag, victims are more likely to come forward, and cases more likely to be pursued, leading to greater prosecution.

At first glance of course, that can look like an increase in the actual crimes. But it’s not. It’s just society finally discovering just how deep that particular rot went.

And hey, for tugging on the heartstrings and grabbing attention, I don’t think there’s anyone in their right mind who’d say protecting kids from further debacles is a bad thing.

There’s also probably a lot of collective guilt too. How many folk are looking back with that perfect, non-rose tinted 20/20 hindsight, and realising they themselves had missed obvious signs, or turned a blind eye, however unwittingly.

Another slice of the pie here is of course the growth of the internet, from something barely heard of at the end of the 90’s, to the all encompassing thing we have today.

There was a decent chunk of time where parents just weren’t savvy to the risks involved. That allowed things to spread even further.

Now, people are, on the whole, more clued up online, so hopefully in the coming years we’ll see online child safety just keep on improving.

Will that crime ever go away? No, no it won’t. But detection rates, and greater confidence for victims to come forward will help combat it.

And don’t forget. There are people who’s preference is in that direction. The UK has quite a few self identified, on the register, and seeking help, that have never acted on their impulse. The majority of offenders however are doing it for the power trip, rather than preference.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s the same old issue though of those crimes previously being hushed up at all levels of society.

Now the cat is out of the bag, victims are more likely to come forward, and cases more likely to be pursued, leading to greater prosecution.

At first glance of course, that can look like an increase in the actual crimes. But it’s not. It’s just society finally discovering just how deep that particular rot went.

And hey, for tugging on the heartstrings and grabbing attention, I don’t think there’s anyone in their right mind who’d say protecting kids from further debacles is a bad thing.

By all means, but you can't protect everyone 24/7, and imo, tendencies to swing the pendulum are pretty darn chronic in most societies...
However, especially the case in germany with the corresponding hiking in expenses for security , especially the police did show that chronic underfunding is an issue.
One i rekon is also here the case.

There’s also probably a lot of collective guilt too. How many folk are looking back with that perfect, non-rose tinted 20/20 hindsight, and realising they themselves had missed obvious signs, or turned a blind eye, however unwittingly.

Standards for parenting have changed massively, from beeing AOK and even accepted teaching method to beat children to outlawed in the span of comparatively a miniscule ammount of time compared to human existence.

Another slice of the pie here is of course the growth of the internet, from something barely heard of at the end of the 90’s, to the all encompassing thing we have today.

There was a decent chunk of time where parents just weren’t savvy to the risks involved. That allowed things to spread even further.

Now, people are, on the whole, more clued up online, so hopefully in the coming years we’ll see online child safety just keep on improving.

Will that crime ever go away? No, no it won’t. But detection rates, and greater confidence for victims to come forward will help combat it.

And don’t forget. There are people who’s preference is in that direction. The UK has quite a few self identified, on the register, and seeking help, that have never acted on their impulse. The majority of offenders however are doing it for the power trip, rather than preference.

the argument of the power trip imo, is a bit too reductive to the solely psychological sphere. Which is also incidentally imo why it often stalls out in regards to correctional capabilities for preciscly this type of ciminal because we humans are not just Rational brainpuppets that have a solid grip 24/7 on us, but rather are also influenced by our own chemistry.
Socialisation merely is the selfcontroll teaching according to the majority, of our urges to the benefit of society as a whole. And which in most cases allows for selfcontroll beeing achieved, but not those that have vastly more issues in regards to their bodily chemistry OR psychological issues.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s right here, Jum

Mine have finally shipped, and hopefully will arrive soon. Will comment on the quality, or indeed kwality once I’ve got them.

Assuming they've arrived, how did these turn out, Doc?

Still awaiting delivery :(

My local movie theatre is playing "Spaceballs" right now.

Due to Covid-19, they let people pay to sponsor movies that they then show on the Big Screen. It is an awesome idea to help keep the theater going. Many of them have just closed up temporarily because no one is going to see movies right now.



Now, onto Conspiracy Theories..... anyone recall the old Mel Gibson movie on the topic. How quaint that film seems now....

The one where the really smart aliens wot are killed to deff by mere water invaded Earth of places? AKA the first Shyalaman film where the twist was the audience had been tricked by The Sixth Sense, and Shyalaman was just another hack who got lucky once?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The one where the really smart aliens wot are killed to deff by mere water invaded Earth of places? AKA the first Shyalaman film where the twist was the audience had been tricked by The Sixth Sense, and Shyalaman was just another hack who got lucky once?

I like the fan theory that the aliens were demons and the little girl was making holy water. It's funny.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The one where the really smart aliens wot are killed to deff by mere water invaded Earth of places? AKA the first Shyalaman film where the twist was the audience had been tricked by The Sixth Sense, and Shyalaman was just another hack who got lucky once?

Eh, Shyamalan got lucky twice. Sixth Sense and Unbreakable are both great movies.

I’d forgotten he made Unbreakable to be fair

You guys saw that the FBI just tweeted out the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the OG Jewish Conspiracy manifesto? It was apparently in response to a freedom of information act request, but the way it was just tweeted out without context or warning is frankly terrifying.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
You guys saw that the FBI just tweeted out the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the OG Jewish Conspiracy manifesto? It was apparently in response to a freedom of information act request, but the way it was just tweeted out without context or warning is frankly terrifying.

I'd openly question why the hell a publicly available book needs to be released via FOIA. What's the story here?

I’m sure there’s a reasonably legitimate reason to request it. I’m also sure that would just be a pretext, and the real reason has everything to do with timing and the appearance of legitimacy this gives the document.