Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Ashiraya wrote:
And to be honest, if I wanted to play a Titan army, I'd just play Titanicus. Its ruleset makes such a collection much, much much more fun to play.

I’d argue the Imperator is too large for AT. Pretty much any opposing Titan caught in it sight and range is probably going bye bye entirely, or will at least be heavily crippled. And being the Main Target (on account it’s going to inevitably be points intensive), it again devolves the game into Just Kill The One Big Thing Before It Kills You. Not an unappealing prospect in itself, but a tiresome one when seen too often.

In LI? I’ve all sorts of things, big and small, to harry it and strip away its shields. My firepower is much less centralised, making the owning player have to work much harder to properly counter and eliminate threats.

As Overread said, you ideally need some form of troop and tank screening to protect your main asset. Because without it? Whether or not I can still scuttle it from within? Surrounding it with a load of infantry and Ratioing It in HTH is a serious threat. Especially with how cheap infantry are.

If we get one in LI? I think it would need unique rules like they had in Titan Legions. Just in terms of thematic coolness? Perhaps allow me as the opponent some capacity to board it with troops, and starting slaughtering its crew. Even if reserved solely for Jump Equipped infantry? That would be a fun way to tackle it, and force my opponent to not simply “big thing is big hurr hurr”.

Just do what they did in Betrayer. Send in 30 Warhounds with Ursus Claws to pin it down and force its weapons to point at the ground so it can't shoot without hurting itself. Then board it with a bunch of World Eaters. GGEZ.

 Ashiraya wrote:
And here I thought we were friends. Shocking.

Anyway, more seriously, I doubt we'll see different armour marks, because stats aside, that kind of detail is practically invisible on this scale. That and your comment about rules is also why I don't think we'll see Breachers. That little shield just isn't remotely enough to add a point of save or wound considering what those stats mean in LI.

I agree I would love to see more unique faction stuff and I think there's hope for that thanks to the Dark Mechanicum spiderbots (which rule).

Ah, but we do have Traits now.

As the rules stand, right now? Specifically Dark Angels Assault Marines are the bane of infantry trying to hold Buildings. Between Jump and Phosphex? Provided I’m committing a reasonable ratio of bases to an assault? It’s likely to be horribly one sided, as I not only strip away the bonuses of being entrenched in a building, but more or less get said bonuses myself.

Other Legion Assault Marines do similar.

So….Breachers could be arranged as building holders extraordinaire, representing less tight corridors, as locking shields to repulse and frustrate attackers, and their training favouring super close range shooting.

I can see Marines getting different troop types for sure - but yeah I don't see any logic in even attempting different Armour Marks just like I don't see GW ever doing individual Marine Chapter models.

Custodes work because they have a lot of visual differences from infantry up to tanks; regular marines its often helmet and shoulder pad designs and a few bits of tiny filigree on a dreadnought. Just not enough at this scale to be visible - and what little is visible just isn't going to be worth it to most people to buy over just regular troops and painting them a different colour.


Now the bonus there (IMO) is it means Marine releases can't dominate LI release schedules. GW can't spend 5-10 years just releasing the same marine models with tweaks.
The downside is its 30K. It's basically stuck with a Civil War situation. Now if they get bold enough to advance to where Chaos get some proper monsters, titans and so forth; if they get a bit wild with other Imperial forces and so forth there's potential to advance.


The other option is to do all of LI then advance to 40K and do Xenos..... but I don't think we'll get that dream.

If they do alternate armor marks, it will not be mechanically represented, but likely a result of a new infantry sprue that has some of the alternate weapon options.

Custodes getting a release could be done pretty easily kit wise- one main sprue with custodian guard, terminators, a few jetbikes, one of each contemptor and a telemon, then a calladus tank with 6 hulls and both turrets, a coronus grav box with 4 hulls, and a pallas grav attack box with 8 hulls.

As a balance to loyalist only custodes, do more dark mechunits, like corrupted onager dunecrawlers, de nurglified blight drones, and some proto-daemon engines.

Worth mentioning that different armour marks don't even have rules in 30k.

They sort of did in 1e (back when Void Hardened Armour could be taken as representing MKIII) and 2e (where the Heavy rule on the HSS could, again, be taken as representing MKIII. I certainly am focusing my MKIII models on HSS units for this reason as we still play 2e), but as of 3e there's not even a fragment left of it.

So odds of armour mark rules in LI are slim.

Ultimately I think LI is held back by a profit tradeoff in GW's eyes. As you noted, Overread, there's not a ton of room to make a gorillion different Marines. But Marines are the main profit driver of any game they're in. So I worry that a reduced Marine capacity, so to speak, will not result in an increased breadth, because GW doesn't think it will result in a proportionately larger return of investment on any potential Xenos.

There’s also the less formal militaries. Chaos Cults, Army Militia on both sides.

Those might be where the fresh creativity lies.

Think of the weird tanks that Krieg got, the ones which if memory serves were adapted from Tractors and that.

All sorts of third tier guff not suited to the cutting edge of Astartes and Solar Auxilia which nevertheless, in huge numbers, are quite cromulent enough. Perhaps including entirely static artillery, suited only to defending a prepared position rather than prosecuting an attack.

Hive Gang Type Militia could be good at holding buildings. PDF Type Militia may have better discipline compared to others.

The sort of forces where a general lack of standardisation is part of the appeal. Where they might yet have some Leman Russ as firm footing, but the backbone are “lesser” tanks and so on.

And as Epic has long been for the wider galaxy? The home of creativity.

Marines might be a money-maker but with Old World, AoS, Necromunda and Bloodbowl its clear that GW is open to diversity. So yes Marines might be a BIG money earner; but they are not everything and, historically, moves to make them everything have often backfired in the medium term.

Made a discussion thread so we’re not clogging up this one with wishlisting

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/818274.page#11800466

I guess the next Journal is Istvaan V Themed again, but the Question is - what will we get?

Obvious stuff is some more Mechanicum stuff to bulk out the range.

Custodes at some point.

Hopefully superheavy Solar Auxilla transports.

Do you think they'll just be done with this game at some point? Not as in tired of it, just as in it being complete? They've released so much in such a short period. There are plenty of bits and pieces left to put out, but if they keep up this pace, it feels like it has 1-2 years' worth of launches left. Which is fine, perhaps at that point you move onto the Battlefleet scale.

I would like, at some point, for them to have campaign rules that tie all the scales together. BG fleet actions that turn into LI wars that morph into 30K Battles and then, hopefully, a KT style product where famous named characters face off in glorious plastic. Good times!

As long as the game sells they'll make more things for it. Even going back and replacing models with new variant sculpts.

The risk is not that GW reaches a wall of running out of ideas; but that either

1) Another product(s) dominate production and design to the point this one gets left to the side for too long

2) The sales diminish to a point where GW does not consider further investment a viable option.

And of course 1 can very easily lead to 2. The problem then is that the game doesn't just stop getting new things; but its more likely GW mothballs the entire game and removes it from sale.


You could add a 3rd one which is that this game pairs too strongly with 30K and thus has to wait longer to get new armies and fresh models because 30K can have multiple releases which are just marines in different armour or different filigree - things that don't work at LI scale.

 flaherty wrote:
Do you think they'll just be done with this game at some point? Not as in tired of it, just as in it being complete? They've released so much in such a short period. There are plenty of bits and pieces left to put out, but if they keep up this pace, it feels like it has 1-2 years' worth of launches left. Which is fine, perhaps at that point you move onto the Battlefleet scale.

If rumors turn out to be correct, some of their release slots will shift to Heresy Battlefleet Gothic. It's doubtful they will run out of LI releases for many years. Legion specific kits & Primarchs could take a couple years to release alone. Not to mention Skitarii, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Elite Marine units, Daemons, Solar Auxilia light vehicles, Mechanicum air support, and plenty of other niche units. I would be happy with bi-annual journals, including 3-5 new kits each, which seems easily possible as long as sales remain steady.

Wait, there's rumours of a new BFG? Oh. Oh no. I'm in danger.

They could introduce true AA-Tanks for LA & SA.

Mechanicum is missing Air Support.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Wait, there's rumours of a new BFG? Oh. Oh no. I'm in danger.

There has been rumours about it for years, but nothing concrete enough for even Valrak to predict a release, which should tell you something.

Yeah... I would not hold your breath on anything BFG.

Much as I'd love to be wrong, there's been no credible hint of it.

Back in 2021/22 we got some whispers that GW were developing/testing an epic scale game, and those later evolved to 'epic scale game set in HH'. The BFG stuff has been essentially the same kind of vague whispers, and I believe Valrak did mention hearing about it once over a year ago. That was very much a case of "I've heard this might be happening" rather than his usual "this is coming out in a few months" rumour.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a HH BFG game announcement either late this year or some time next year as the LI range approaches 'completion'. But at the same time I'm not betting any money on it.

I'm sure there's staff who are BFG fans enough for there to likely be a bunch of designs at GW for new BFG stuff and for there to be chatter.

That said honestly I kind of don't want BFG if its going to be stuck in the 30K era because that's even more a mirror match situation. You're basically down to Imperial, Marine and Mechanicum and whilst I'm sure GW could make each fleet and faction a huge diverse and awesome looking set of ships; its still just 3 factions. Most other Imperial factions in this era don't strike me as having a whole spacefleet of their own and would just use the others for transport around.

I know GW has definitely ruled out Xenos, but have they ruled out daemons and more mutated chaos stuff?

That stuff was definitely around for the late war.

So far 30K hasn't really had much for demons - a couple of unique FW resin models but nothing that really spoke of a demonic army. Feels like it almost started and then stalled (like Sisters of Silence).

I know when they did the new Warlord for AT they spoke about how the made it super modular and split the core and armour up on different sprue to let them do mutated chaos stuff easier in the future and yet they've never made a single chaos titan either.


It feels like either the 30K team can't escape the Marine churn or they don't have any demon loving designers or they are oddly banned from developing them because they are a "40K product line"
Which isn't totally daft as they are likely going to have to make 3 different demon forces as it is.
1) For AoS
2) For 40K
3) Likely at some point for Old World if it keeps doing as well as it is.

On the AT armour plates?

As you said, intended to be a modular kit to allow for future adaptations, including gribbly mutations.

That we haven’t seen those may be down to LI being developed.

Really do need to be doing that though. I love Chaos Titan Weapon Tails.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I know GW has definitely ruled out Xenos, but have they ruled out daemons and more mutated chaos stuff?

That stuff was definitely around for the late war.

I would love to see some sort of 'demons of the ruinstorm' type sprue. Maybe throw in some possessed marines, vehicles things like that.

I have a feeling that “late heresy” biomechanical horror style chaos will be done at once - ie a big push and release across a few ranges. Reckon it’s a while off. Also reckon daemons will be more generic ala Daemons of the Ruinstorm brutes they released to keep them separate from 40k

As an aside, I hope we do see the Dark Mechanicum get the hell talon, hellblade and the harbinger bomber

 Overread wrote:
So far 30K hasn't really had much for demons - a couple of unique FW resin models but nothing that really spoke of a demonic army. Feels like it almost started and then stalled (like Sisters of Silence).

I know when they did the new Warlord for AT they spoke about how the made it super modular and split the core and armour up on different sprue to let them do mutated chaos stuff easier in the future and yet they've never made a single chaos titan either.


It feels like either the 30K team can't escape the Marine churn or they don't have any demon loving designers or they are oddly banned from developing them because they are a "40K product line"
Which isn't totally daft as they are likely going to have to make 3 different demon forces as it is.
1) For AoS
2) For 40K
3) Likely at some point for Old World if it keeps doing as well as it is.

Daemons feel odd in that none of the GW games treat them like they belong there.

30k and TOW tossed them into PDF hell. AoS tossed the Daemons list at the end of 2022 (November 2022, if I recall right - good S2D army book, but what a tragic loss). And now 40k has decided to not release a Daemons codex this edition, which isn't usually a herald of good news for a faction.

As someone with a massive Daemon collection, I am a bit displeased.

There was an AT Article in a 2022 WD Issue with Rules to play Daemonic Possession ect. on Titans with the undertone in the text, that they plan to do more.

Was one of the two last AT articles in the Magazine...

That was short Time AFTER, when Rumous about FW Resin Carapace Mutation update Kits came up...

 Ashiraya wrote:
The LI scale Warmaster is already the scale of a 28mm Imperial Knight, and that is pretty close to the upper edge of what GW is willing to do scale-wise in plastic, unfortunately.

An Imperator would be... something.

What if FW gets back in the game of making models that are too big and too niche for the mainstream GW?

RazorEdge wrote:
There was an AT Article in a 2022 WD Issue with Rules to play Daemonic Possession ect. on Titans with the undertone in the text, that they plan to do more.

Those Rules are in #470 (November 2021).

#473 had the very last AT WD article....

 Ashiraya wrote:


Daemons feel odd in that none of the GW games treat them like they belong there.

30k and TOW tossed them into PDF hell. AoS tossed the Daemons list at the end of 2022 (November 2022, if I recall right - good S2D army book, but what a tragic loss). And now 40k has decided to not release a Daemons codex this edition, which isn't usually a herald of good news for a faction.

As someone with a massive Daemon collection, I am a bit displeased.

So AoS started a trend that 40K is slowly following which was to take the single demons and split them into 4 separate armies of demons alongside their mortal followers. With the option in the book to go pure demon/follower if you want. This actually fits the lore closer than a combined arms demon army because in theory that's how most of them manifest. They are a single demonic entity because all 4 war with each other. United forces tend to only appear at super-major events and often allied behind a very major warlord - which you still get. In both games you can take demons as allies in a Chaos Marines/Slaves to Darkness army.

This also means that each of the 4 gets to have more models because now they aren't relying on each other to fill the roster gaps.


AoS started this and is pretty far along. 40K is just starting so its more in the "separate" stage and following that I fully expect to see adding models. I also fully expect to see a steady separation as models from both games full segment. Eg Slaanesh lost the chariots in 40K and the new AoS Quest boxed set has all AoS only new Nurgle models within it. So over the next 5-10 years I expect to see lots of new demon plastics in both those games. The only ones that might skip updates are the Greater Demons simply as they are much bigger and more expensive; but I'd wager both games will see unique big models of their own added.

30K and LI are different in that they've basically not had any proper demon work. 30K got some in resin, but not really what you'd call a full army style of releases.