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You are right Mannahnin, sorry about that. I over reacted.

Well it's pretty much as I expected- Apocolypse adds some wonderful new models (and their associated rules), but doesn't do much else. It appears to simply be a really big game of 40K. Fair enough. Why not just call it 40K? I'm not really complaining here- I'm just wondering why GW seemingly released this as an optional system of play rather than a (much needed) expansion to the regular rules. Many of the tweaks (e.g.: some strategems and cutting the board for deployment) would be good for any size game.

Nice new models, though.

Posted By Triggerbaby on 08/20/2007 1:58 PM
Well it's pretty much as I expected- Apocolypse adds some wonderful new models (and their associated rules), but doesn't do much else. It appears to simply be a really big game of 40K. Fair enough. Why not just call it 40K? I'm not really complaining here- I'm just wondering why GW seemingly released this as an optional system of play rather than a (much needed) expansion to the regular rules. Many of the tweaks (e.g.: some strategems and cutting the board for deployment) would be good for any size game.

Nice new models, though.

Because it is a supplement to the standard game (exactly like Cities of Death). Players can decide ahead of time whether they want to use the apocalypse rules and units or whether they would rather stick to the standard game and codices.


Whether they fail at their goal or not, the goal is to have the standard game set up for basic play that is relatively balanced for tournaments or pick-up games. Then the system will eventually have many supplements that players can choose to add to the game if they like the expansion.

That way the game caters to several types of players but still has a core game that remains unchanged for basic competitive play.


Of course they still haven't got the core game balanced yet. . .but that's the point of making it a supplement.

So how are Valkryies better in Apocalypse vs. the standard entry from Forgeworld? Are they cheaper in points?

Capt K

Posted By CaptKaruthors on 08/20/2007 2:17 PM
So how are Valkryies better in Apocalypse vs. the standard entry from Forgeworld? Are they cheaper in points?

They're better because now they're in a GW rulebook instead of a FW one. So more people will let you use them...

From what I've heard the flying rules in Apocalypse are a lot better/more powerful than the FW ones. So that means a Valkyrie would be better.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I would like to say thank you first off to Reecius for bringing this information to us. I am not upset that he made a mistake, I am overjoyed that he was able to get this info in the first place. As a Necron player myself, I am really looking forward to the Pylon rules as well as the three Monolith field.

Posted By CaptKaruthors on 08/20/2007 2:17 PM
So how are Valkryies better in Apocalypse vs. the standard entry from Forgeworld? Are they cheaper in points?

Capt K

Well, he said in his post that vehicles that can enter VTOL mode now can move around the board as a fast Skimmer. This is a big improvement over the previous VTOL rules which made the vehicle sit in one place (although it could pivot).

Now (it appears from his rumors) you can fly your squad on with your Valkrye then engage VTOL mode and move around the board in later turns providing ground support. Very cool indeed (and the way it always should have been, IMO).

How many points do the flyers go for?? I have always had my eye on an Elysian Drop troop army and this could seal the deal for me, with the possible exception of GW producing a Plastic and somewhat cheaper version than the FW one!

Thanks,
Chappy P

What's the bet a Valk costs more than a Falcon, despite not having Holo-Fields or AV12.

BYE

While that is definitely a lot better, I hope that they reduce the points cost a bit...or at least keep the vehicle upgrades the same. Chaff is needed to keep the valkryie alive longer. I am looking forward to blasting people with my valkryie. As it is, it has done okay in my 2500pt Ard boyz playtest games allowing me to land troops on the objective on the last turn for the win in my last test game.

Capt K

no word on special rules for characters, eh? I know the space marines have a butt load... well, i guess that's expected... but anything on Tau or Eldar or Orks?

Posted By yakface on 08/20/2007 2:07 PM
Whether they fail at their goal or not, the goal is to have the standard game set up for basic play that is relatively balanced for tournaments or pick-up games. Then the system will eventually have many supplements that players can choose to add to the game if they like the expansion.

Hey, I got an idea - instead of releasing an expansion that's less balanced than the current rules, perhaps they focus on releasing something that's more balanced.  This must be a chance for the studio to cut loose, balance be damned!  All this blandification is hard work!  Let's take a break from writing airtight perfectly balanced tournament rules and release something that's just for fun!  I can picture it now...

JERVIS:  Gav, has the Chaos codex been "taken care of"?

GAV:  It has, my master.  Pete Haines' failure is now complete.

JERVIS:  You have done well, my young apprentice.  Once more the possessed will roll their abilities, and we will have peace. 

GAV:  Thank you my master.

JERVIS:  But now I sense you wish to continue your search for "fun"...

I guess the core rules are too balanced and we need an expansion to set our imaginations FREEEE!!!  I'm sorry, when you can write balanced rules then you can release "just for fun" expansions.  But when your core rules have trifalcons, nidzilla, and fzorglorcerors you don't get to "take a break from game balance".

It was said you would bring balance to the game!  Not leave it in blandness!

OI!!! Who is Dis? Is it my Space Wolves Buddy? :|

Do you know I have organised a day with GW staff to playtest at our Sept. Meeting? Did you get my E-mail? Well?????

 

 

Gentleman,

I have been speaking to a few GW staff members about Apocalypse, and this is what he said about Marines for Example,

1. You get some full-on advantages when you play a full "Company", IE 6 x Tac squads, 2 x Dev squads, 2 x Assault, 1 x Razorback/Pred
8 x Rhino's!!!!( It all comes conveniently packaged by GW as a Box you can buy!!!)
With the Battleforce Box, you get 6 Special Characters-Fleet Commander(For Orbital Bombardment), 1st Company Commander(special rules about"Honour of the Chapter", which gives a single surviving member of a squad the ability to take objectives, and a few other guys that give you other cool things(Sorry I can't remember it all!)

2. GW is going to release a "Drop pod" in the next 12 months apperntly..........(WE WILL SEE.....)


3.Reaver and Warlord Titans are going to be allowed(Releasing thier own???)


4. There are VORTEX grenades(KOOL), I did not ask about Blind or Anti-plant grenades(they sucked in '88, so I can not see 20 years improving them!)

5.Heaps of new mini's being released.(Esp. ORKY BITZ)


Please do not flame this, as I am not saying it as a fact.

Posted By akira5665 on 08/21/2007 7:29 PM
Gentleman,

With the Battleforce Box, you get 6 Special Characters

Sorry about upsetting the bunny. To remind myself about how TRULY EEEEVIL I am, I have printed out the bunny and put it up at work........lol

Posted By akira5665 on 08/21/2007 7:29 PM
With the Battleforce Box, you get 6 Special Characters-

The Battleforce Box is the all-plastic box that has been available for a couple of years now. It doesn't include any special characters.

The Battle Company box (which is the big box being released for Apocalypse) is also an all-plastic box, and also doesn't contain any special characters.

The 4 Space Marine characters are being released in a 'Masters of the Chapter' box.

Posted By akira5665 on 08/21/2007 7:29 PM
3.Reaver and Warlord Titans are going to be allowed(Releasing thier own???)

I doubt we'll see a GW Titan any time soon. The rules are just in there to allow for Forgeworld's models or scratchbuilds.

Forgive me if I missed it, but what info was provided for 'Nids?

I remember reading about the squad (?) of 5 Carifexes that can be Deep Striked anywhere on the table. Was there anything else? Or even an update?

Will any of the Forge World stuff be usable?

Wow, just had a very wierd keyboard experience..................

As far as all the other people have told me, there is a Command squad consisting of 6 Guys in the Mega-Force, or it may be called a "Company" Box. You get 106 Mini's, and around 6/7 Rhinos/1 Razorback.

Why would you have 10 sqads of 10 and 6 random guys? I am pretty sure it is the Company Command squad. I am going to GOOGLE what you mentioned about the "Masters of the chapter".

PS. thanks for the info about the Battleforce box. I have been playing 40k for about 20 years and have never heard of it!!!(Snigger)

PS. thanks for the info about the Battleforce box. I have been playing 40k for about 20 years and have never heard of it!!!(Snigger

Really? Then why did you post that it comes with 6 special characters? I wouldn't throw too much sarcasm towards someone who corrects your mistakes.

Posted By akira5665 on 08/22/2007 8:29 PM
As far as all the other people have told me, there is a Command squad consisting of 6 Guys in the Mega-Force, or it may be called a "Company" Box.

And once again, it's the Battle Company box.

The Mega Force is the $300 plastic box that, like the Battle Force, has been around for some time.

Posted By akira5665 on 08/22/2007 8:29 PM
You get 106 Mini's, and around 6/7 Rhinos/1 Razorback.

8 Rhinos and a Razorback

Posted By akira5665 on 08/22/2007 8:29 PM
Why would you have 10 sqads of 10 and 6 random guys?

You don't.

You get 10 squads of 10, a Commander and a 5 man Command Squad.

These are the regular plastic models, not special characters.

Posted By akira5665 on 08/22/2007 8:29 PM
PS. thanks for the info about the Battleforce box. I have been playing 40k for about 20 years and have never heard of it!!!(Snigger)

You're the one who brought it up:

Posted By akira5665 on 08/21/2007 7:29 PM
With the Battleforce Box, you get 6 Special Characters-

Posted By brotherskeeper74 on 08/22/2007 10:10 AM
Forgive me if I missed it, but what info was provided for 'Nids?

I remember reading about the squad (?) of 5 Carifexes that can be Deep Striked anywhere on the table. Was there anything else? Or even an update?

Will any of the Forge World stuff be usable?

Tyranids: Endless Swarm - a butt-ton of gaunts with some special rules.

I think there may be some form of "Zoanthrope Battery" as well.

 

Forgeworld - I can't believe they would say you can't use it. probably whatever the current FW rules are if there isn't somethng new in the Apoc book.

Yeah there is a Zoey group, i cant remember what the hell they did though, or what they were called, it was like 6 Zoeys and another Tyranid model, maybe a tyrant? cant remember. Ill have another look when i go back to the store.

the endless swarm is 120 Gaunts that all get without number and when an enemy unit fires at them, if they roll a certain amount of 6's they are out of ammo and cant fire for a turn while they reload.

they had a sample scenario in there where one army had to try and kill X amount of bugs in X amount of turns to win. sounded like some fun.

They had another scenario like that too, but with Orks. The Orks had a Kan factory that produced i think like D6 Kans or something a turn and the other army had to try and destroy the factory in a certain amount of turns. Some of the guys i know said they played it and it was really fun.

and the Battle Company is all plasitc, there are no metal models in it, as has been stated.

While at work, I did a sneak peek at the BoLS page at the datasheets. Not only do Chaos get their own sheets, they also can use Imperial datasheets as well. If you look at the LineBreaker datasheet, it states that through Apoc rules, Chaos can use Imeprial datasheets.

For me: Renegade Basilisk Batteries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Freakin' Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also worth noting in that BoLS posting Apoc datasheets thread is that in the Emperors Fist tank company, the command tank can be a Vanquisher, Executioner, or an Exterminator from IA1. Also, the command tank of the Basilisk company (9+ Bassies) can be a Salamander Command vehicle from IA1.

 

Also, going back a couple of pages, I'm pretty sure that Forgeworld have confirmed / commented that a Reaver Titan will be released sometime towards the end of 2007 (with rules coming in an IA book), and that a Warlord Titan was in the "conceptual" stage. Must be banking on the success of the Manta, as it won't be a cheap model...

If so, this would explain the rumour I've heard that the Apoc book has rules for the smaller Warhound and large Warlord, but not the medium Reaver (as you can see, if they released in Apoc, they'ld be undercutting FW...)

Cheers,

Padre^.

I can not see how writing Snigger in brackets is too much sarcasm mikhailia.

If all you have to add to the post is that, them keep up the good work.(SNIGGER)

 

How about "snicker" instead.  That's what you're actually trying to write.

Posted By The Power Cosmic on 08/23/2007 9:18 PM
How about "snicker" instead.  That's what you're actually trying to write.

Either one. Means the same thing.

And both just as inappropriate when you're being sarcastic instead of just admitting to making a mistake.