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If that's how good your memory is when you're tired and hung over I can't imagine how good it normally is

thanks for the awesome report.. really looking forward to it. I just kinda realized, I think I have a whole 4 armies I can play together.. 2000 pts of guard, 2000ish of marines, Inquisitor w/ some grey knights and about 3500 pts of eldar.. and of course there's the baneblade i'm getting.. I'm gonna need like 12 army transport bags

Posted By JHall on 08/19/2007 8:25 AM
Hey guys,

I have also read the Apocalypse book and I can confirm what BaconSlayer said - the Stompas in the book (and in the picture in WD) are scratch builds and the Ork models in Apocalypse are not the new bikes and truks. I have however seen the new Bikes and Truks and I can say they are quite nice!

Just wanted to clarify.

Jeff

Finally, some confirmation regarding the stompas.

Thanks Jeff.

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 08/19/2007 7:44 AM

Hmm, Dakkites praising a new GW product?

(looks out window)

Yeah.  Thought so.

You see Grandmaster B4z3 in china?

While fun that kind of invalidates 80% of all codexes. Why take anything but heavy support?

 

Conservative optimism aside the rules look very fun.  However given the scale of the game this looks like a very daunting proposition for my wallet considering i plan to start a NEW army and everything is so damn expensive now.     :_(

I go to college in a week.
Why does the game suddenly get 10X cooler as soon as I leave?
What gives??

Posted By ShumaGorath on 08/19/2007 10:21 AM

Threre are literally no force org charts. you can put ANYTHING you want down,

While fun that kind of invalidates 80% of all codexes. Why take anything but heavy support?

 

Why Not just use Heavy support or ELites.  Its supposed to be fun so why not take wahtever you want. 

 

Thanks for the Write up, very informative

That rule that allows flyers to act as skimmer. Does that mean all flyers? LIke that 600 dollar monstrosity the tau have? Couldn't that tank shock an entire army alone?

If anything this game will be fun because of the rediculous stunts you could pull off.

That sounds like exactly what they were aiming for with this book.

Posted By ShumaGorath on 08/19/2007 10:35 AM
That rule that allows flyers to act as skimmer. Does that mean all flyers? LIke that 600 dollar monstrosity the tau have? Couldn't that tank shock an entire army alone?

Nope. Can't tank shock unless you are a tank.

That is funny, i don't doubt you Jeff, but i was told specifically that the stompa kit in the book was legit and that the bikes, buggies and truks were the new ones and that they would be out around christmas, but hey, i could be totally wrong. Just calling it as i saw and heard it =) The person who told me is pretty high up in the company and has never steared me wrong in the past, but you would know better than i for sure.

I did forget some stuff,

The Space marine whirlwind detachment not only got unlimited range but also could reroll the scatter die.

There were two flavors of the bassie datacheet, a squad and company, one was three the other was 10. The 10 bassie formation could use the apocolypse four leaf clover template i believe and in that case it does not deviate, so you would just pummel your target with essentially 10 pieplates in  avery condensed area, and they all hit at once! So each guy could theoretically be hit by 10 earth shaker rounds.

The dark eldar got a second formation that consisted of a lot of raider squads and warriors. I believe they got the strategic redployment stratagem.

Chaos did have another datasheet, the deamon summoning one. It let you put a warp gate down in your deployment zone and then all your deamons come through it including greater deamons. I forgot about that one.

There was also a tyranid data sheet that combined a bunch of zoeys but i do not recall what they did.

The deep stirking caries are rad, and it makes using melle carnies totally feasible, i think that one will be really popular.

The gargantuan creatures i believe are protected from force weapons because their rule is worded as they are protected from any psychic weapon that does not directly cause damage, i think you have to have a strength value. It is a moot point anyway though, as most of them are too tough to be wounded by anything but maybe a greyknight grand master.

And that is correct, the linebreaker squad was three vindies, the three land raider formation was the armored spear tip. Thanks for clarifying that.

To answer some questions:

Sure, you could take all heavy support, or all abbadons or all falcons, or clowns or whatever. that is the point. You can play the game however you like. it is not meant to be a cut throat competetion as much as a way to spend the day with your pals and have some fun. If you decide to bring 50 obliterators, then go right ahead, probably wont be a fun game though. You dont exactly walk into a game store and play a pick up 5K game though, you know? You call your buddies and set it up. I think as long as you play with like minded people, everyone will have a blast.

no, there is nothing in there about time limit per turn, but im sure you could make a house rule for that.

no, not all flyers could become skimmers, only things that were VTOL capable like the Vulture, Valkyrie, etc. Things like the fighta bomba, thunderbolt, marauder (which is brutal!) etc. can not.

The revenant does not get the skimmer rule anymore i dont think, at least it didnt in our games (but we were still getting used to the rules). I have seen it in action tiwce, both times it got blown up with a pen. The thing hits SO hard though, its pulsars are just awesome and it is faster in HtH than the other big guys (In2!)

The stompa was the coolest thing in there, IMHO. the guns were just so fun. The bigmek stompa's lifta droppa was rad, and the other stompa with the ability to go ape with the super gattling cannon and then still fire his super cannon was too fun. Although you had to fire the big cannon after the gattling gun, so it goes dakka dakka dakka dakka, boom! i felt that it captured the orky feel very well.

I wish i could remember the warlord's weapons, but they were just insane. The Warhound scout titan (we had one of these in both games I played in) got its choice of two titan weapons and the Warlord got 4 plus some minor weapons too. The thing seriously looked like it would be unstopable, as it should be!

In the second game we played 10K of chaos vs 10K of Eldar and friends (including 15 penitant engines, each as a seperate unit!), one guy brought Angroth (forgeworld bloodthirster), that dude is a beast. He took orbital bombardments to the face and just laughed it off before going toe to toe with a titan. Very very fun. ALso, you can use whatever rules for deamons you choose with the rules worded the way they are, so screw those stupid generic deamons in the new dex.

Well, ill post more as it comes to me, but the book should be out soon. i will 100% be getting that backpack deal as it is $90 bucks with everything you need (apart from more minis of course!) and yes, the book is bigger in demension than the BGB, which is kind of dumb IMO, i want it to fit in an army transport with my other books, but that is a minor complaint as it has huge foldout picutres in it with truly immpresive battles on display. Also, i guess that makes the backpack even more appealing as it will fit all your books or apoc and a figure case.

Posted By Hellfury on 08/19/2007 9:20 AM

Posted By JHall on 08/19/2007 8:25 AM
Hey guys,

I have also read the Apocalypse book and I can confirm what BaconSlayer said - the Stompas in the book (and in the picture in WD) are scratch builds and the Ork models in Apocalypse are not the new bikes and truks. I have however seen the new Bikes and Truks and I can say they are quite nice!

Just wanted to clarify.

Jeff

Finally, some confirmation regarding the stompas.

Thanks Jeff.

Oh, well I guess I'm awesome and shouldn't back down so quickly.

Yeah me!

So no info on how the Lost and the Damned are handled? Thought the rumour was the Latd list would be on a datasheet- something about having to take 3 mutie squads?

Apocolypse still sounds cool, like a throwback to 2nd edition madness.

For those that have seen the Warlord Titan entry:

I am currently building a Warlord Titan. I am almost done. However, I want to make sure that my weapons layout will be legal. I have two volcano cannons, and two vulcan mega bolters. Will I have to rip my titan apart?

Posted By BaconSlayer on 08/19/2007 10:59 AM

Posted By ShumaGorath on 08/19/2007 10:35 AM
That rule that allows flyers to act as skimmer. Does that mean all flyers? LIke that 600 dollar monstrosity the tau have? Couldn't that tank shock an entire army alone?

Nope. Can't tank shock unless you are a tank.

what about titens, squiggoths, and stompas im shure that would hurt if you got steped on by them (espechely the stompa as you get steped on then lose scrap and grots fall on you

So, was there any Vehicle Design Rules or similar?

I remember seeing a pic from a presentation, that said something about making "datasheets" for vehicles. Using FW artillery with your own rules.
"...with the flexible rules of Apocalypse you can create your own datasheets and field the most diabolical engines of war your mind can conjure!" was the exact wording, and this was from an official GT presentation.

For me VDR would be like 75% of the fun. Without that I'll probably skip Apoc completely. I was planning of scratchbuilding a Tau superheavy or a small Titan for Marines. But without fun rules for them specifically, I'm not going to bother.

This is going to be really cool. Between my friend and I we have nearly two full Battle Companies of Dark Angels, nearly 10,000 points with vehicles, Ravenwing and Deathwing. 3 of our friends have Speed Freaks, this could be a really fun game...

And Yay! I'm finally not in the minority opinion (so this is what it feels like...)

Ozymandias, King of Kings

you can use VDR but the rules aren't in the book.

I did not see anything about the lost and the damned.

But there was a data sheet for the plague reaper (cahos baneblade) and the brass scorpion. The plague reaper fires the giant flame template and when it is destroyed, it does something really nurglish but i cant remeber exactly what.

Titans and gargantuan creatures can tank shock anything apart from other superheavies, and they get a stomp special attack too.

Posted By Reecius on 08/18/2007 8:47 PM
First off, the basic game is unchanged. You use the exact same rules for Apoc as you do normal 40K.

That just killed off my enthusiasm for Apocalypse...

While there's a lot of cool stuff in there, it doesn't address the biggest problem with large-points games using the 40K ruleset: Namely that one side does everything in a turn before the other side gets to do anything.

I've played 10-20000 point games of 40K before. While they're fun as an occasional thing, it gets a little tedious when you're standing around for half an hour waiting for your opponent to finish moving all of his models...

Add in multiple players, and that gets exponentially worse, as each phase slows down while players discuss what to do, or have to go and find the guy who's supposed to be moving but has wandered off in search of munchies.

What are the points cost for Imperial Flyers, such as Vultures, Valkyries and Thunderbolts??

Thanks,
Chappy P!

Posted By cuda1179 on 08/19/2007 11:28 AM

For those that have seen the Warlord Titan entry:

I am currently building a Warlord Titan. I am almost done. However, I want to make sure that my weapons layout will be legal. I have two volcano cannons, and two vulcan mega bolters. Will I have to rip my titan apart?

With the theme of Apocalypse being "anything goes", I can't imagine that there's a weapon combo on the Warlord that you CAN'T take.

You should be just fine! (No guarantees though - I mean, I haven't seen the rules either!)

Insaniak: since it's all 'for fun' anyway, perhaps introduce some house rules with your 40k Apoc to spice it up and do away with IGOUGO. Hidden deployment, for example, and random activation might spice things up. Perhaps some kind of reaction rule a la BFE/SST (not full "overwatch" per se). I mean, if we're talking about a game of all Leman Russes vs. all battlesuits, why not?

I must admit it all sounds very interesting at the very least. But am I the only one who thinks 15-20mm WH40K would be much better suited to this sort of thing than the current 28mm? It would certainly be a lot easier to paint! I wonder if GW missed the chance to sell everyone an entirely new line of minis?

I think Epic-scale players just got a new ruleset as well.

That's a shame. A 800(?) point AV12 tank doesn't sound too interesting all of the sudden. It's quite sad actually that the proper way to play Eldar in Apocalypse is the exact same thing as in regular games of 40K: Mass as many Falcons as you can with as many Harlequins and Fire Dragons as possible.

Posted By tanker on 08/19/2007 3:41 PM
 But am I the only one who thinks 15-20mm WH40K would be much better suited to this sort of thing than the current 28mm?

Nope. I think they should have gone 6mm for truly massive battles, 15mm years ago for what they do at 28mm now, kept to 28mm for skirmish/small battles, and did 54mm for campaign-based games. But they didn't. Oh well.

There are people who play 15mm 40k out there, though, using GZG and other kitbashed figs.

Am I the only one who isn't impressed or excited about this?

With a full time job, family, and other interests, I barely have the time to play the typical two hours game every couple weeks.  The half-day affair that it appears they are going for with Apocolypse sounds uninteresting.  If I wanted to play with huge models such as titans or SHs, then I'd get back into Epic.

I like the bidding on setup and a few of the other setup ideas.  I really like the vortex grenade too.  I hope they incorporate these ideas into future versions of the core rulebook, however, as it stands, the Apocolypse book holds about the same interest to me as the Wargear book did.

It sounds like I am alone however in my opinion.

I still hope GW makes a killing on it.

You're not alone. I have no use at all for Apocalypse, and I think it's an odd thing to release right now, but if people are excited, if it makes money for the hobby, then great.

Most gamers already have close to 2500-3000 pts with all the force structure options for their 1850 armies anyway. You can always play with less, say 2000 vs 3000 ,and have 5 stratagems to even things out.

I'm just glad my IG can finally have some Marines task organized for future operations. Bring on APOC!

First, thank you very much Reecius for sharing that.
The book certainly sounds like it has a good "attitude".
I doubt I'll play it much, because I dislike the basic rules for 40K and like others I have limited money and very limited time (I'm in work at 1am on a Sunday for christ's sake) so other games are more appealing to me.
I hope everyone has great fun playing it and it gets GW out of their funk in a constructive way though.
I'll be over here, painting LOTR and obsessing about it quietly.

I want to take an army consisting of Abaddon the Despoiler and that's it.  I will spend the rest of my 3000 pts alottment on orbital bombardment.   Since Abaddon will start the game in reserve I will wager "0 minutes" for my set up time.

(This would probably work better using unit of Swooping Hawks with Skyleap, but I think it's funnier with Abaddon.)