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I'd say that DE are just the remanent of what the eldar were like at the time of the fall. They are the only "pure eldar" left, unrestricted by the need to follow the various "paths" that their craftworld breathren follow.

I could easily see them being the most fatalistic of all the eldar. I don't see DE with spiritstones. That says a lot to me. They see the fall of the eldar for what it was. The fall. They recognize that the eldar will never gain a position of prominence in the galaxy again. So they take the position of "let's just enjoy ourselves while we can." And as has been well documented in the eldar fluff, most eldar exhibitted the behavior exactly like the DE at the time of the fall, when they were indulging in their every desire.

Now, to the point I wanted to make. I wouldn't think that they'd worship Slaanesh. They don't really worship anything. They just give in to all their hedonistic desires. That might explain DE horde armies too. I'm sure debauchery of the type that leads to procreation is also something that they give into. Just a guess.

Oh, and everything I wrote is my personal conjecture. None is supported by fluff.

This thread is throwing around background material that I've never seen in my life. As far as I know (unless it's in some crazy book) the Dark Eldar don't feed Slaanesh souls, they feed on the souls of others, which increases their lifespan. This is also why they don't wear spirit stones. Honestly, they have a bit more going on for them than this thread is giving them credit for. LatD aren't going to be given a codex, GW has already said this, because they supposedly 'work better for Apoc' which is fine and dandy for me (and yes I'm aware of the petition to get LatD a codex). However, GW does have it's eye on Dark Eldar, they haven't been swept under the rug like LatD. For all of the LatD junkies out there, JJ has stated that the Legions will be getting books, so when the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers get their books, you've got your basic LatD armies, right there before you, you'll just be an Alpha Legion or Word Bearers player rather than an LatD player, so you are getting what could be considered a codex, then Dark Eldar players and LatD players are happy, and this thread becomes a bunch of us yelling at each other for no reason.

Burna Stompa wrote: For all of the LatD junkies out there, JJ has stated that the Legions will be getting books, so when the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers get their books, you've got your basic LatD armies...

As much as I'd LOVE to see that happen, do you really think it is?

And, if you really do, when?

JJ says a lot, but really, if ALL of the Legions were to get a Codex, what edition of 40K would the last one come out in?

Bottom line, it isn't going to happen.

Savnock wrote:JohnHwang, when was the last time you played DE? They can be a really nasty mixed shooting/assault force, or a SAFH if fielded all-infantry with, as mentioned above, a squatmillion dark lances. Wych cults are scary too.

It doesn't matter that I haven't played them in years - suffice to say that I've played them with their current Codex.

My point isn't that they aren't playable. My point is that they aren't distinctively playable. They aren't as special as they should be, and that is a problem that can only be fixed by reconcepting the army.

Schepp himself wrote:Maybe a switch to a heavy infiltrating/scouting theme could make the DE play a little bit different. They are raiders after all.

That turns DE into the old Alaitoc Ranger / Pathfinder army, which was great as a scenario, lousy as a standard army. Having them be raiders / pirates isn't terrible, but from the Imperial POV, there's precious little difference between an Craftworld Eldar Corsair and a Dark Eldar Pirate.


Until such time as the Studio has a champion to push for a well-themed chaos / fallen / pirate Dark Eldar army with appropriate Fluff, they're just going to sit in limbo.

Stormtrooper X wrote:When I first saw this picture my nipples got all hard and I was like "Oh snap! Dark Eldar is comin!?"... then I saw the cheesy lobster claw things and realized it was a slowed demon.

XDXDXDXD HAHAHHAH lol....

.... does anyone likes the eldar ... cuz i dont know anyone who does....

,... only the scorpid thing... is kinda cool...
... but.... kinda .... .... and in our gw store the only thing you can buy of darkeldar is ... the darkeldar battleforce.... (hehe bearforce 1)

no no no... ... eldar rox! but does anyone likes the darkeldar?

Alpharius wrote:

Burna Stompa wrote: For all of the LatD junkies out there, JJ has stated that the Legions will be getting books, so when the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers get their books, you've got your basic LatD armies...

As much as I'd LOVE to see that happen, do you really think it is?

And, if you really do, when?

JJ says a lot, but really, if ALL of the Legions were to get a Codex, what edition of 40K would the last one come out in?

Bottom line, it isn't going to happen.

I think that it's true, but it'll take a while - probably roughly 1 book per year. The first book (Khorne) wouldn't likely come out until 2009 or 2010. The last book (Tzeentch) probably wouldn't come out until the very end of 5th Edition in 2012 or 2013.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

Burna Stompa wrote: For all of the LatD junkies out there, JJ has stated that the Legions will be getting books, so when the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers get their books, you've got your basic LatD armies...

As much as I'd LOVE to see that happen, do you really think it is?

And, if you really do, when?

JJ says a lot, but really, if ALL of the Legions were to get a Codex, what edition of 40K would the last one come out in?

Bottom line, it isn't going to happen.

I think that it's true, but it'll take a while - probably roughly 1 book per year. The first book (Khorne) wouldn't likely come out until 2009 or 2010. The last book (Tzeentch) probably wouldn't come out until the very end of 5th Edition in 2012 or 2013.

I don't think so. The first "book" already came out and it covers Tzeentch. And by "book" I mean "datasheet". That's all we're getting. They will also be releasing "box sets" to go along with these "releases". And by "box sets" I mean "bitz packs". And by "releases" I mean "kicks to the babymakers".

Fishmonk: Please type in full sentences in normal English. Netspeak like you're using is difficult to understand.

Thanks!

Personally I would have bought Dark Eldar if the minis weren't atrocious. If the warp beasts looked like the ones in DOW: Soulstorm, If the warriors looked more like warriors and less like gymnasts with guns, if only the folks on the jet bikes weren't half naked for some reason...

But Alas, they are just too damn fugly (except for scourges).

JohnHwangDD wrote:My point isn't that they aren't playable. My point is that they aren't distinctively playable. They aren't as special as they should be, and that is a problem that can only be fixed by reconcepting the army.

I think that's a very valid point. They can have very competitive armies, but there's nothing about that play style that's terribly exciting or interesting.

And Savnock, I'm glad that Abby schooled you on the double-Keith references...that really was a bit much for two threads.

Iorek wrote:Fishmonk: Please type in full sentences in normal English. Netspeak like you're using is difficult to understand.

Thanks!

It's possible that English is not his first language...Especially considering that he has a Dutch Flag by his name...
If he is speaking like that on purpose I agree that he should stop...but if he is being as fluent as he can we should cut him some slack.
Well there's my two cents

CplPunishment wrote:

Iorek wrote:Fishmonk: Please type in full sentences in normal English. Netspeak like you're using is difficult to understand.

Thanks!

It's possible that English is not his first language...Especially considering that he has a Dutch Flag by his name...
If he is speaking like that on purpose I agree that he should stop...but if he is being as fluent as he can we should cut him some slack.
Well there's my two cents

He's obviously doing it on purpose. ESL writers don't type things like "kinda."

Iorek wrote:Fishmonk: Please type in full sentences in normal English. Netspeak like you're using is difficult to understand.

Thanks!

oh sorry

but dark eldar are still not cool...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

Burna Stompa wrote: For all of the LatD junkies out there, JJ has stated that the Legions will be getting books, so when the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers get their books, you've got your basic LatD armies...

As much as I'd LOVE to see that happen, do you really think it is?

And, if you really do, when?

JJ says a lot, but really, if ALL of the Legions were to get a Codex, what edition of 40K would the last one come out in?

Bottom line, it isn't going to happen.

I think that it's true, but it'll take a while - probably roughly 1 book per year. The first book (Khorne) wouldn't likely come out until 2009 or 2010. The last book (Tzeentch) probably wouldn't come out until the very end of 5th Edition in 2012 or 2013.

2012 or 2013?

4 or 5 years from now?

At 1 book a year?

OK, the "givens" are Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Death Guard and Thousand Sons.

I guess we're saying that the Black Legion book is already out? (I know some would disagree, but...)

(And really, I don't think GW can do "enough" to justify NOT just putting them into one big book? But that's beside the point for now...)

I guess you could then lump all the actually cool Traitor Legions into one big book (Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords)...

So, 5 Legion Books in a span of 5 years, on top of all the other Armies that 'need' books?

No, I don't think so!

And really, if all 3 Inquisition Orders are going to be in one Codex (and no, I'm not holding my breath), do you really think GW is going to dedicate an individual Codex for each Traitor Legion?

To be fair, I think JJ or whomever said that GW "might" or "was thinking of" doing this... Probably just to try and calm down a fanbase that was rather hacked off by the latest Chaos Marine Codex, which tried to be all things to many, and instead came up as not that much to most...

Alpharius wrote:

To be fair, I think JJ or whomever said that GW "might" or "was thinking of" doing this... Probably just to try and calm down a fanbase that was rather hacked off by the latest Chaos Marine Codex, which tried to be all things to many, and instead came up as not that much to most...

While also redressing the fact that the last chaos codex was so darned broken.

KiMonarrez wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

To be fair, I think JJ or whomever said that GW "might" or "was thinking of" doing this... Probably just to try and calm down a fanbase that was rather hacked off by the latest Chaos Marine Codex, which tried to be all things to many, and instead came up as not that much to most...

While also redressing the fact that the last chaos codex was so darned broken.

Some things were (certain designers favorite armies?) but was it really that bad?

And did GW really have to pull a, er, GW and swing the pendulum that far in the other direction so that there's nary a Traitor Legion force in sight?

Alpharius wrote:
To be fair, I think JJ or whomever said that GW "might" or "was thinking of" doing this... Probably just to try and calm down a fanbase that was rather hacked off by the latest Chaos Marine Codex, which tried to be all things to many, and instead came up as not that much to most...

Now, there was no "might", there was no "thinking of", there was "we are". Why do you find it so wholely unthinkable that GW would put out a book for the legions? They do it for regular Marines, so why not? Maybe they're finally sick of hearing Chaos players whine and complain about not having their own legion books? Maybe, just maybe, GW is trying to look toward the players for once? It's so sad that it's come so far that to think GW is going to do anything nice, or reasonable, that it has to be a blatant lie to the masses.

I could live with 3 chaos codexes... Of course, #3 would have to be big to pack in the fluff and detail required.

Codex: Chaos Space Marines <- Current 'dex. Represents renegade legions.

Codex: Demons <- Gooey details on demons, demonic armies, etc. Contains rules to ally with Codex: CSM in a restricted capacity (new renegades aren't devoted enough to a god to get full access).

Codex: Traitor Legions <- Tells the tale of all the original traitor legions, world eaters, thousand sons, death guard, iron warriors, etc. Rules to ally with the other 2 dexes as needed.

Perhaps 7 might be better from a perspective of book real-estate, but would take forever and a day to get released.

(#1 C: CSM <- Renegades
#2 C: Demons <- Demons
#3 C: Traitor Legions - Undivided
#4 C: Traitor Legions - Khorne
#5 C: Traitor Legions - Slannesh
#6 C: Traitor Legions - Nurgle
#7 C: Traitor Legions - Tzeentch)

Heck, maybe just 4 codexes then:

C:CSM <- Renegade Marines
C: Demons <- Demons
C: Traitor Legions <- Generic Traitor legion rules
C: Named Legions <- Non-Generic Traitor legions (Iron warriors, T-Sons, Alpha Legion, etc)


It would be nice to have codex parity with the goody two-shoe loyalists. But I don't see that happening anytime soon myself (C: SM, C: BA, C: DA, C: BT, C: SW), so I'd settle for 3 Codexes... and maybe a chapter approved (oh wait, they don't do these anymore) with rules for snatching guard units for renegade guard.

uh... what does chaos has to do with this?
I know the dark eldar are chaos too but... .... WTF???

Alpharius wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I think that it's true, but it'll take a while - probably roughly 1 book per year. The first book (Khorne) wouldn't likely come out until 2009 or 2010. The last book (Tzeentch) probably wouldn't come out until the very end of 5th Edition in 2012 or 2013.

2012 or 2013? 4 or 5 years from now? At 1 book a year?

OK, the "givens" are Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Death Guard and Thousand Sons.

I guess we're saying that the Black Legion book is already out? (I know some would disagree, but...)

(And really, I don't think GW can do "enough" to justify NOT just putting them into one big book? But that's beside the point for now...)

I guess you could then lump all the actually cool Traitor Legions into one big book (Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords)...

So, 5 Legion Books in a span of 5 years, on top of all the other Armies that 'need' books?

No, I don't think so!

And really, if all 3 Inquisition Orders are going to be in one Codex (and no, I'm not holding my breath), do you really think GW is going to dedicate an individual Codex for each Traitor Legion?

To be fair, I think JJ or whomever said that GW "might" or "was thinking of" doing this... Probably just to try and calm down a fanbase that was rather hacked off by the latest Chaos Marine Codex, which tried to be all things to many, and instead came up as not that much to most...

Yes, Yes, Yes. That's what I said.

The full set of Chaos Codices should be:
- CSM Undivided / "Black Legion"
- Daemons
- Traitors & Mutants "LatD"
- Khorne CSM & Daemons "World Eaters"
- Slannesh CSM & Daemons "Emperors Children"
- Nurgle CSM & Daemons "Death Guard"
- Khorne CSM & Daemons "Thousand Sons"

Of course, the other Traitor Legions (Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords) would get NOTHING until the next CSM Codex. At that point, they should get a Special Character with a Special Rule like the loser Loyalists (White Scars, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Salamanders).

As for the other armies that "need" books, you only have a handful: Space Woofs, Blood Angels, Necrons, Tyranids, Imperial Guard, and Inquisition. Combined with a Event or Scenario book, that's a total of 2 or 3 40k books per year - very doable over the next 5 years.

You're welcome to think that GW won't do Legions, but that's your opinion. Jervis said they would, and there's no reason to doubt him. Just remember that he never promised to do *every* Legion, nor did he give a schedule for when they would be released. So if you consider what makes sense (each Ruinous Power, 1 per year), then the whole thing is quite sensible and practical.

TragicNut wrote:I could live with 3 chaos codexes... Of course, #3 would have to be big to pack in the fluff and detail required.

Codex: Chaos Space Marines <- Current 'dex. Represents renegade legions.

Codex: Demons <- Gooey details on demons, demonic armies, etc. Contains rules to ally with Codex: CSM in a restricted capacity (new renegades aren't devoted enough to a god to get full access).

Codex: Traitor Legions <- Tells the tale of all the original traitor legions, world eaters, thousand sons, death guard, iron warriors, etc. Rules to ally with the other 2 dexes as needed.

Perhaps 7 might be better from a perspective of book real-estate, but would take forever and a day to get released.

(#1 C: CSM <- Renegades
#2 C: Demons <- Demons
#3 C: Traitor Legions - Undivided
#4 C: Traitor Legions - Khorne
#5 C: Traitor Legions - Slannesh
#6 C: Traitor Legions - Nurgle
#7 C: Traitor Legions - Tzeentch)

Heck, maybe just 4 codexes then:

C:CSM <- Renegade Marines
C: Demons <- Demons
C: Traitor Legions <- Generic Traitor legion rules
C: Named Legions <- Non-Generic Traitor legions (Iron warriors, T-Sons, Alpha Legion, etc)

It would be nice to have codex parity with the goody two-shoe loyalists. But I don't see that happening anytime soon myself (C: SM, C: BA, C: DA, C: BT, C: SW), so I'd settle for 3 Codexes... and maybe a chapter approved (oh wait, they don't do these anymore) with rules for snatching guard units for renegade guard.

Based on what happened to the old CSM book, Craftworlds, EOT, and Armageddon, I don't think GW will be doing any more multi-list books. When you say "Codex: CSM" it will have a very specific meaning (generic CSM-based list with generic Daemons & no Traitors). If you say "Codex: World Eaters", it will have similarly narrow meaning (all-Khorne, all the time). Much simpler for GW to develop, and much clearer for your opponent to understand.

So the likely situation is 7 books: CSM, Daemons, & Traitors first to define the basic rules and options for the various units, then Khorne, Slannesh, Nurgle, & Tzeentch to mix-and-match as appropriate.

FishMonk wrote:uh... what does chaos has to do with this?
I know the dark eldar are chaos too but... .... WTF???

It's discussion of release scheduling and resources, what GW is likely to work on, and when (if ever) Dark Eldar might fit into a release schedule. Chaos matters, because GW said they would do Legions (and there are plenty), so if they do them, it affects how Dark Eldar fit into the overall schedule.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

You're welcome to think that GW won't do Legions, but that's your opinion. Jervis said they would, and there's no reason to doubt him. Just remember that he never promised to do *every* Legion, nor did he give a schedule for when they would be released. So if you consider what makes sense (each Ruinous Power, 1 per year), then the whole thing is quite sensible and practical.

If *every* Traitor Legion isn't represented (remember, they all used to be!), don't you think JJ was being a bit disingenuous then when he said that GW would be (maybe) doing the "Legions"?

And yes, it is obvious where my allegiance lies, as well as a touch of bitterness over all of my Cultists who are now apparently only good at summoning Dust Bunnies from the Warp...

Burna Stompa wrote:

Alpharius wrote:
To be fair, I think JJ or whomever said that GW "might" or "was thinking of" doing this... Probably just to try and calm down a fanbase that was rather hacked off by the latest Chaos Marine Codex, which tried to be all things to many, and instead came up as not that much to most...

Now, there was no "might", there was no "thinking of", there was "we are". Why do you find it so wholely unthinkable that GW would put out a book for the legions? They do it for regular Marines, so why not? Maybe they're finally sick of hearing Chaos players whine and complain about not having their own legion books? Maybe, just maybe, GW is trying to look toward the players for once? It's so sad that it's come so far that to think GW is going to do anything nice, or reasonable, that it has to be a blatant lie to the masses.

Would this be the same "masses" that scream blood murder over the proliferation of MEQ armies with not enough Xenos love?

Do you really see GW putting out THAT many books that are Marine-centric?

Really?

Why not? They've had half a dozen marine books out all this time. The more the merrier! And all you marine players will have more flavors to choose from!

I've seen a lot of Jervis quotes and none of them ever indicated that legion codices were on the way. They have all been sort of "we'd like to do legion codices" or "we are definitely doing something with the legions". Not one has ever come out and said point-blank "the legions are getting codices". Not one. If anyone has a quote to that effect I'd sure love to see it. Until then my guess is that the "Tzeentch Warcoven datatsheet" is the closest thing to "legion rules" we're gonna get.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The full set of Chaos Codices should be:
- CSM Undivided / "Black Legion"
- Daemons
- Traitors & Mutants "LatD"
- Khorne CSM & Daemons "World Eaters"
- Slannesh CSM & Daemons "Emperors Children"
- Nurgle CSM & Daemons "Death Guard"
- Khorne CSM & Daemons "Thousand Sons"

Gotta love them Chaos Gods... Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle and Khorne.

Wait a minute...

MinMax wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:The full set of Chaos Codices should be:
- CSM Undivided / "Black Legion"
- Daemons
- Traitors & Mutants "LatD"
- Khorne CSM & Daemons "World Eaters"
- Slannesh CSM & Daemons "Emperors Children"
- Nurgle CSM & Daemons "Death Guard"
- Khorne CSM & Daemons "Thousand Sons"

Gotta love them Chaos Gods... Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle and Khorne.

Wait a minute...

Oohh... good catch.

I think it's a Freudian slip reflecting GW's success at subliminally conditioning me to not expect Tzeentch to ever get a book.

It would be amusing (and not so surprising) if GW decided 3/4 of the way through the Powers to say "Screw Tzeentch. Let's bring back Malal instead!"

Stormtrooper X wrote:When I first saw this picture my nipples got all hard and I was like "Oh snap! Dark Eldar is comin!?"... then I saw the cheesy lobster claw things and realized it was a slowed demon.

I think I just died of laughter and came back just like Grimaldus.