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Foda_Bett wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:I don't know about the regular boxes, but my wife had a bit of an epiphany last night.

We pre-ordered the game, and got the little codes for open beta and head start, etc. We ponied up 5$ per box, with the idea that we pay 45$ or whatever per box for the remaineder.

Then the head start starts, and we download the patch from open beta to live game. Yesterday we picked up our boxes, put them on the counter when we got home, and started playing for the night, without even cracking the shrink wrap.

Why did we pay the 45$?

You wern't able to play the "real" game until today, what you were playing was the head start you got into because you pre-ordered. You'll need to give the code in the $45 box to the account management site to be able to play when the servers go live, today.

Amusingly enough, no, I didn't. The head-start IS the real game, you just get a head start at it. As near as I can tell, you only get the opening cinematic from the hard copy of the game. (I installed it on my wife's PC after doing a clean wipe of Windows.) My uncoded version on my pc works just fine.

Ahtman wrote:

VermGho5t wrote:Welcome to World of Warhammer-Craft.......Online.....!

Meh. I'm not really interested in yet ANOTHER work simulator

The similarities of the games are superficial; it is like saying Diakatana and Half-Life 2 are the same because they are both FPS.

Yeah, no. The similarities are glaring and obvious. Well maybe not obvious to the modern-day MMO player. But WoW's features were, for the most part, so damn good that they became the industry standard. Yes, a mini-map, quest driven leveling, a visibile friggin xp bar, a quest log, NPCs with actual dialog, intuitive interface, the visual indicators and trackers for quests, a CLOCK (simple huh?), instanced PVP and Raid zones, raid and group size caps, talent systems, these things are all pertty much standard in a modern-MMO.

They are standard because Blizzard sets the standard. These features were non-existent in almost all MMOs prior, and virtually 'unheard' of (despite being simple enough concepts, most of which the fans clamoured for!). And those games did ok! Face it, we've become spoiled. Problem is, now every MMO maker doesn't think they can succeed unless they make "WoW 2.0". Innovation isn't dead, it's just depressingly rare.

Really, comparing these two games is like comparing Quake to Unreal Tournament. Essentially the same game with a different flair.

And hey, I like 'em both!

Here's my impression of the game so far, having played up to a whopping Rank 8 last night:

1. WoW clone? No. The easily-recognized UI and controls might suggest this but from my experience the game play is completely different and more polished. You spend less time hiking. MUCH less time hiking. Clearing a zone in WoW while leveling would take 3-4 hours minimum including 20 minutes of corpse running in mob dense areas.

With ease of quest collection and turnin, and the instant rez option after death, you can cover the same amount of "story arc" in about 30% of the time. Now, this could actually be a bad thing later on, if the game runs out of content early, but for ease of gaming it's a big plus.

2. Combat seems more simplistic. Keep in mind that I'm level EIGHT, so I undoubtedly haven't unlocked all the abilities, but there seems to be far fewer abilities both from core class and "career" or "skill tree". I played an endgame warrior for 2 and a half years in all aspects the game had to offer and I regularly used 15 or more abilities in just about every conflict. WAR seems to allow 3-4, chained together in combos. I'm really hoping there's more than what meets the eye because gameplay will quickly devolve into selecting a target and mashing your face into the keyboard over and over if the skill tree is as limited as it seems.

3. Quests are way better. WAY better. Like, ten thousand million times better than in Warcraft. Questgivers are labeled on the map, so no more trudging around Undercity looking for the guy underneath the culvert next to the sewer to hand the Crown of Kings to.

Reputation grinds are so radically different it's almost unbearable. It's like looking at a child raised by Hitler and a child raised by Mother Theresea. Each zone has a Chapter, regarding the overall story arc of your character's saga, and there is a small grind involved to max out your 'diplomacy bar' for that chapter. By grind, I mean very cool cinematic battles. There's usually a short gathering quest, a slightly longer killing quest (all of which can be done ungrouped but the credit for other characters performing in the same area is automatically shared), and then a climactic finish with large numbers of spawned mobs and a boss mob that drops a treasure chest. If you do this about three times, you max out the reputation necessary and then you are eligible to reward items appropriate to your level, unlike in WoW when you start a grind at level 25 for a ring that you won't get until you're level 60 and probably have better equipment available anyways.

Loot rolling is also much, much cooler. It's a better-refined process than the 'token' system WoW tried to implement.

4. PvP combat looks a lot more simplistic, and therefore boring. Whereas Warcraft has a lot more tactical options available (spellcasting interrupts, crowd control, snares and stuns of great variety), WAR only has a few. This makes fights a straight up scenario of smashing into each other until something dies. I really highly doubt we'll see any of the highly dramatic and fast-paced PvP videos that were almost an endemic with the implementation of Warcraft's Honor system and PvP Battlegrounds. Again, keep in mind I'm level 8.

That's about all that I've got. I have high hopes for this game but right now it looks like it'll dead end due to simplistic combat.

sourclams, in RE to your 3. and 4.

I gotta totally disagree with you here.

RE the Reputation Grind and quests. Well WoW has basically the same tracking system as WAR does now. And the reputation grind? Please, WAR doesn't have reputation, WAR has a second (technically third, counting the Renown rank bar) "Kill stuff" bar. You just have to kill the RIGHT stuff. And it fills up so insanely stupid fast. 2 public quests, from start to finish, and you're done. I want a LITTLE bit of challenge in my Rep Grind. Accomplishments are nothing without challenges.

And the PVP? WoW has tactical PVP?! Maybe in the sense of a 1 on 1, or a 3 on 3, straight up fight. But there's no real PURPOSE or GOAL involved. Battlegrounds are a right joke. That's not real PVP, that's the PVP appetizer before you get the real PVP. WoW just doesn't have true PVP. WAR does. Massive, Realm vs Realm battles, actual 'wars', that actually have some sort of effect on the world. They got it right with DAOC, they've only perfected it since.

You're dead on with 1 and 2 though, in my book.

Wehrkind wrote:Why did we pay the 45$?

For the account code. Mythic is giving users a grace period right now to account for shipping etc, before accounts will need to be validated with the full retail code in order to continue playing. I haven't heard a flat date but the scuttlebutt is sometime around the 20th-22nd of September.

I heard some people that have tried the game out already say that it was not that good.

I've been playing it for the past week and its been great. Its even better now that most of my friends/ co-workers/ dakkites are joining in as well. WAR is much more refined than WoW and much more interesting. Finally no more running through the enemy and a tank can be a tank. Not to mention the numerous small things that they have fixed that WoW always had issues. Actual RvR and PvP that counts for something has got to be one of the best additions WAR has implemented over WoW.

On sourclams early thoughts on the game:

I think it's a bit early to be comparing endgame WoW to starting zone WAR.

You really have to cut back on just about everything you remember from WoW and try to think about JUST the first 10-20 levels.

Much of this is directed towards your early PVP thoughts. Though some is also towards the rep grind issue as well. Rep/Influence (WoW/WAR) gets longer over the levels. I won't say it's 1/1 right now, but you do take a bit longer as you level to max out your influence bar. Though, as you get to new zones, there are more and more chapter public quests to get that rep in, so you really don't have to grind a single area for hours on end. You can do one public quest, and move on to the next and so on and so on. You might have to redo one once or twice, but you also might not have gotten the loot from the end of the public quest, which is actually good stuff most of the time so it's worth your time!

All in all, I'm enjoying my time as a Black Orc on Averheim. For those lookin for a rough and gruff tank, hit me up on Redtoof. Yes Russ, I used your warboss as inspiration while creating the big guy ^_^.

Well, I'm glad so many of you are enjoying it. Until Mythic gets their heads out of their @$$s and realizes that there's more then one operating system, those of us on apple machines will not be giving them money. After fighting with it for a few hours last night, I just gave up and decided to ignore the game altogether unless a mac version comes out.

sparowl wrote:Well, I'm glad so many of you are enjoying it. Until Mythic gets their heads out of their @$$s and realizes that there's more then one operating system, those of us on apple machines will not be giving them money. After fighting with it for a few hours last night, I just gave up and decided to ignore the game altogether unless a mac version comes out.

It does work on more than one OS: Vista and XP! I haven't heard if anyone has tooled around on Linux for it. And you got a Mac and want games?

Well I just found out that the Dwarfish mounts are Mini-Helicopters, I will now be picking up a copy on Monday. If there are any available (T_T)

As a MMO vet and WoW raider, I thought I'd weigh in here.

Major points of difference.

Early rep grinds go fast, which is good. You aren't in that area for all that long. Long early rep grinds are dumb. Adv: WAR

WAR points out quest target areas on the map. It's so nice. Adv: WAR

WAR has a complete lack of short distance flight. Flight points are continent to continent, not quest hub to quest hub or even zone to zone. Adv: WoW, but at least WAR flights are instant

Good linkage of PvP and PvE. Renown gear is nice and easy to get, clear focus on PvP. WoW lacks a clear goal. Adv: WAR

Low level travel sucks, and there's a fair amount of it. Adv: Fail on both counts.

Smoothness of game. WoW is pretty smooth client/server sync. WAR has ... odd things happen in PvE, and the engine in general is a little jerky. Adv: WoW

PvP numbers balancing. All important WoW PvP is in numbers-limited settings. WAR world pvp still suffers from terrible faction imbalances on some servers. Adv: WoW, if you care for that.

Points to note. You might want to stay away from casters. I've NEVER been afraid of them in PvP so far, and playing one is frustrating. I've gone "Oh, no, there's a X on me" for every class but Bright Wizards and Sorcs. And I play a Sorc.

The battleground (scenario) PvP cranks your level, but you'll still suck unless you are a healer. Going in at level one means you're just a leech. It's hard to perform until you hit the minimum cap for the fight, due to gear and abilities and stats. Higher is always better.

You'll still get rolled by the dominant faction of the server a lot. About 40% of my trips into the 1st scenarios are total Order domination of Destruction, with the Order players winning every meter at the end. All 10 of them.

It's essentially a spiritual sequel to WoW, it fixes nearly every gameplay hole that game had and introduces a storyline that isn't so childish and insipid that it could kill a man.

-The UI is identical to WoW, which is great since the WoW UI was fantastic.

-The methodology for storing, showing, and completing quests is identical as well, though many of the issues with WoW quests are absent, such as one in four bears having an ear.

-The pvp system is basically identical with cross server functionality and objectives. It differs pretty majorly in a few respects though, with collision detection and the lack of a spacial requirement for accessing the pvp content (no battleground dude to talk to).

-The loot system is basically identical but with far more guaranteed rewards. There's much less vendor trash pushed on you only useable by other classes.

-The raid game is fairly similar, though its easier to take part in large scale conflicts with public quests now. In this way more casual players can experience raid sized battles.

-The game runs pretty smoothly and should run well on most hardware settings (within reason). And the only major bugs are visual tracking issues with pets and NPC's (They are sometimes not where they appear to be).


Anyway, most of the points are already hashed out. Give it a month or two of patching and most lingering issues should disappear. Also after about two months most balancing issues should rectify themselves as well.

I play on the destruction side of the chaos wastes server (RPpvp). My gobbo is named Sniktoof.

I have a question regarding the box version, does the box you buy at the store come with the first month of subscription or something similar? Or do you have to buy that in addition to the game? (I know there is a subscription cost, just wondering whether I have to buy an extra card to play or if I have to pay with a credit card or if I can't even play at all if I just buy the starting box. Its one of the things I hated about WoW, to start you not only had to buy the boxed game but you had to buy an additional 30 dollar gaming card just to access what you just bought for the first time.)

yes box version comes with 1st month

W00T! Thanks.

I've never seen Warcraft not come with a free month, excluding buying the expansion. Every copy of WoW that I had came with a free month. I think every MMORPG I've purchased came with a free month.

Yah but the problem is to activate that free month you have to buy either a game card or use a credit card subsription. Sadly, WAR was the same.

Interesting how the fluff is re-written in the game. Apparently Orcs grow into Black Orcs now. Or maybe I'm just behind on my Warhammer Fantasy Battle fluff.

Alot of the fluff had t be rewritten inorder to make the game more interesting and playable from a single person point of you. The story has to advance and the player has to feel like they are activly helping their side win the war. You need to remeber that in the warhammer fantasy world all the major powers that people can play as table top armies are essentially at perpetual stalemate, never suffering major defeat, yet never winning any major victories.

I play a dark elf in game, and I also have played dark elves on the table top for over 7 years, so I know their back story. In game only two black arcs are invading, they landed at the shrouded isles, have pushed through Chrace, which is on the north coast now and not the east. In the Shadowlands you get to assault and break through both the Unicorn and Griffin gates, something the dark elves have never done. In fact the griffin gate assault is a major plot in the shadowlands quest. Through the gate is Elryion, there the high elves have set up camps and are training Empire soldiers, again against the fluff as the High Elves never let any outsiders past the Lotherian seagate. Thats as far as I have gotten in the game so far, but I can see on the map that it goes all the way to Averlon so maybe Malikith is raping the Everqueen right now.

FOR KHAINE!!!

I'm just reminded of Neil Gaiman's rule about comic book movies, that their success is predicated on replicating what made them appreciated as comic books, rather than only changing that to make them fit the big screen more easily.

Ratbarf wrote:Yah but the problem is to activate that free month you have to buy either a game card or use a credit card subsription. Sadly, WAR was the same.

I've found that if you email or call customer service and talk to them they will waive it.

Nurglitch wrote:I'm just reminded of Neil Gaiman's rule about comic book movies, that their success is predicated on replicating what made them appreciated as comic books, rather than only changing that to make them fit the big screen more easily.

So are you arguing for or against the game? Even the very successful comic book movies have changed things from their comic book counterparts.

Zacarius wrote:Alot of the fluff had t be rewritten inorder to make the game more interesting and playable from a single person point of you. The story has to advance and the player has to feel like they are activly helping their side win the war. You need to remeber that in the warhammer fantasy world all the major powers that people can play as table top armies are essentially at perpetual stalemate, never suffering major defeat, yet never winning any major victories.

I play a dark elf in game, and I also have played dark elves on the table top for over 7 years, so I know their back story. In game only two black arcs are invading, they landed at the shrouded isles, have pushed through Chrace, which is on the north coast now and not the east. In the Shadowlands you get to assault and break through both the Unicorn and Griffin gates, something the dark elves have never done. In fact the griffin gate assault is a major plot in the shadowlands quest. Through the gate is Elryion, there the high elves have set up camps and are training Empire soldiers, again against the fluff as the High Elves never let any outsiders past the Lotherian seagate. Thats as far as I have gotten in the game so far, but I can see on the map that it goes all the way to Averlon so maybe Malikith is raping the Everqueen right now.

FOR KHAINE!!!

Technically its probably not a violation of the fluff if it is taking place currently and not historically (They didn't let outsiders past that gate until now).

Interesting how the fluff is re-written in the game. Apparently Orcs grow into Black Orcs now. Or maybe I'm just behind on my Warhammer Fantasy Battle fluff.

I thought black orks were just orks that have lived long enough to get huge and have their skin tone change.

So, CC required to register....

Does this include such things as Switch and other Debit Cards, or is it really Credit only? If so, that sucks, and rules me out sadly :(

Black Orcs were genetically created by the Chaos dwarves to be slaves. They rebelled and are now a separate race of Orcs. In 40k, orks continue to grow and grow as they age and get darker skin.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:So, CC required to register....

Does this include such things as Switch and other Debit Cards, or is it really Credit only? If so, that sucks, and rules me out sadly :(

It works with anything that you can use to buy a shirt online with. Debit, credit, etc.

Black Orcs were genetically created by the Chaos dwarves to be slaves. They rebelled and are now a separate race of Orcs. In 40k, orks continue to grow and grow as they age and get darker skin.

They may be trying to push that under the rug. Much like what they are doing to the chaos dwarves themselves (If they aren't careful a rogue hive fleet may eat them too). In the 40k fluff an orks skin tone darkens as it grows older and larger, they may well be trying to bring that in line in both universes.

Ozymandias wrote:Black Orcs were genetically created by the Chaos dwarves to be slaves. They rebelled and are now a separate race of Orcs. In 40k, orks continue to grow and grow as they age and get darker skin.

Chaos whats? Didn't they used to have an army book? I thought that in WHFB fluff that their ziggurats were overrun and they were devoured by a strange insectoid race. <sorry, bad joke about the lack of support for CDs>

With regard to Black Orcs...remember, the line between a Snotling and a Gobbo is blurred enough in their soceity, so why not Orcs and Black Orcs?

I sincerely doubt an opponent is going to get finnickety about your genetic heritage as you kick his head in....

CD actually never really had an army book, they had a "White Dwarf Presents....". They may actually get a real book someday, after all the current races are caught up for 7th ed.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ozymandias wrote:CD actually never really had an army book, they had a "White Dwarf Presents....". They may actually get a real book someday, after all the current races are caught up for 7th ed.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

You mean when we start 8th edition and all the races need to be redone for 8th?

No, we won't have time for Chaos Stunties then.