Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Lets all just start DE and boycott Marines.

Yeah right

Oh wow, Beef is back. Hi Beef.

Kungfuhustler wrote:Yep. My LGS got in a large shipment of dark eldar models today! The store owner confirmed that the Dark Eldar are no longer direct only.

I was told this is part of the change from US+Canada= GW North America. It's just the old range being put back into what's available to stores. No new models. And it's not an indication that new DE are around the corner.

GW won't do Web-dex, because BA showed that it didn't drive sales...

I hate to say this but John was right (ouch that hurt ). The problem was everyone already had all the models for BA and the new dex basically made them update their existing models by adding jump packs etc. With no new models in the range very little increase in sales was noticed. Although it did drive the cost of jetpacks up hehe. When releasing new armies with no models you cant expect an increase in sales.

I still like my DE although I dont play them as much as I used to. This is more due to my old paint job not up to par with my new stuff and I dont want to repaint them until new models come out. The Dex is not bad but they do need new units and adjustments to the current units and the wargear really needs an update. This would bring them out of the dark ages but I am hoping they add another side to the DE to give others a reason to play them other than the fact that we just like to be sadistic heheh.

Oshova wrote:

Jacksonhighlander wrote: if they screw up the wyches like they did daemonettes... SMACK A BABY.

They could screw up those models? The wyches are cool . . . but in now way, shape, or form, are they GOOD models . . . my philosophy on the new DE stuff is "The only way is up!"

What makes you think that GW cannot make things worse to save a buck or two? Did you not see the current Blastscape Craters thread? Or the Leman Russ "redesign"? Or the simplification of Chaos Warriors in WFB?

Assuming DE re-launch, Wyches will be redone in plastic, but they will very likely get the Daemonette treatment with a major change in style. The existing plastic Raider, Warriors and Jetbikes will carry over, warts and all. Most likely, Warrior weapons and Ravagers will move to upgrade sprues to remove the mixed-metal kits, with Scourges possible as an upgrade sprue for Warriors. All told, the DE army is going to pretty much look about the same as what we had 10 years ago, just with fewer metal bitz.

Also, the DE Codex isn't weak, so I'd be quite scared if I currently played DE. I think people can kiss away 10 Warrior squads with dual Dark Lances, along with awesome wargear like Agonizers for Troops leaders. It's not like GW is going to buff the DE, given that they're already competitive. I think DE are going to see some very bizzare rebalances if a new Codex ever comes out, like "must-have" Talos and Grotesques. And Asrubal Vect? Mandatory Special Character for competitive play.

____

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:TBH, I'm seriously considering making a DE army.

Flashman wrote:TBH, I'm seriously considering starting a Squat army

Do it!

Do it!

john: i already consider sdurbial vect to be manditory for competitive play, assuming a 2K or greater tourney . who dosen't want an av 14 ravager that fights in cc as an 11 front armor dreadnaught, feth's sake!

Honestly I'm excited for the possibility of new warrior molds, i have 90+ warriors now and the only thing I like about them is that they are a fairly blank canvas for insanely intricate paint schemes, a lot of them have boobs and the ones that do not have boobs are easy to augment with some healthy D cups. We all know Eldar are a bunch of poofs, but dark eldar are easily an all female bondage poof army... and that is A-OK. It really appeals to my iner 13 year old!

Someone posted some amazing corsair/storm guardian/warrior kitbashes a while ago that should satisfy anyone who really dosen't get off on the current warrior models. I think I'm going to build 40 or 50 of them myslef.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Assuming DE re-launch, Wyches will be redone in plastic, but they will very likely get the Daemonette treatment with a major change in style. The existing plastic Raider, Warriors and Jetbikes will carry over, warts and all. Most likely, Warrior weapons and Ravagers will move to upgrade sprues to remove the mixed-metal kits, with Scourges possible as an upgrade sprue for Warriors. All told, the DE army is going to pretty much look about the same as what we had 10 years ago, just with fewer metal bitz.

To be fair, every rumor we've seen has mentioned a complete do-over for the DE line. And Raiders have a different look in more recent artwork. Wyches will likely change if only because Chris Fitzpatrick is long gone and Jes is on the job.

Also, the DE Codex isn't weak, so I'd be quite scared if I currently played DE. I think people can kiss away 10 Warrior squads with dual Dark Lances, along with awesome wargear like Agonizers for Troops leaders. It's not like GW is going to buff the DE, given that they're already competitive. I think DE are going to see some very bizzare rebalances if a new Codex ever comes out, like "must-have" Talos and Grotesques. And Asrubal Vect? Mandatory Special Character for competitive play.

I wouldn't say they should be "scared" exactly. I think DE players have to be ready for quite a bit of change. Yes, a good DE army might be composed very differently. And if GW's head is where it normally is ($$$), they'll probably ensure that current army comps will require some significant changes. But I'd think DE players' desire for a modern codex and more viable options will probably outweigh any fear of change they might have.

I also think GW will make sure the DE codex is competitive. Competitive armies sell, and they'll have enough invested in a DE relaunch that they'll want to make sure it's a hit. Plus, IIRC the last book that Phil Kelly produced that was a competitive dud was a long time ago and in a different game system (Ogre Kingdoms). And I expect at least half the codex to get significantly buffed, given that half the codex is now near-useless.

Honestly I see a hard swing of the nerf-bat coming towards the dark eldar along the lines of what john said + the loss of webway gates. Just like the recent IG codex I think that GW is going to produce a semi viable/viable codex that 100% alters the way that the army was COMPETITIVELY played. I really hope that the nex DE dex is a looooong way from release.

But there are not new repackagings, or relauches, are they?

I mean, it's still the same limited range than in the website, without special weapons blisters for troop squads, nor splinter rifle guys for the Scourges. Too bad.

I still don't understand why they discontinued that models, being legal options in the army list and having the miniatures made.

It's the same model range, new packaging. a 2 darklance blister is $15 u.s.

I would consider it a re-launch though, with the advent of the new planetstrike book talking them up and the models being available in hobby stores again. They should have made more of a to-do about it though.

TBH, I can't wait for the new rules . . . my first and favourite 40K army . . . pure awesomeness =]

Call me a newbie, but I haven't actually seen Dark Eldar. So I went to the army profile section and I noticed something.

There aren't any Dark Eldar Army Profiles.

I wonder if Google will be any better...

All told, the DE army is going to pretty much look about the same as what we had 10 years ago, just with fewer metal bitz.

I find that pretty hard to believe. GW is pretty fething stupid, no doubt, but I don't think they're quite so stupid as to ignore the number one complaint about DE: the ugly fething models.

If they did do that it'd probably be the single stupidest decision they ever made (topped only by writing the Squats into/out of the game), and a complete waste of time and money. If you're not going to improve the look, then why bother?

I concur, I want awesome new models! Admittedly with a 4000pt army I don't need to buy much, but a few boxes here and there wouldn't go a miss, and hey what is eBay for if not to chuck out the old to fund the new? =p

I can't help but feel from past experience, now would be the time to pick up cheap used mandrakes, scourges and hellions. I do agree that things will get shifted around to drive sales. One of the currently crappy choices will become a new must-have - like the treatment lootas and nobs got in the ork book. One of these will get very sexy new models but still suck rules wise.
Dark lances will go up in points, but troops and wyches will come down, balancing the cost out, but you'll only get 1 lance per 8 guys or something like that.

These are my predictions. I actually prefer the old ork codex to the new in some ways. I hope I don't feel the same about my dark eldar after the update...

hellsguardian316 wrote:Might be going 1 of 2 ways IMHO

1) The new codex they are writting completely underminds the current DE models meaning that when released, no one will want to buy the old style so they are trying to get as much money from the old stock before the new arrives. A nasty trick if true.

2) They are dropping DE altogether and selling off old stock to recoup as much money as possible.

hmmm, both options seem to involve GW making money at the expense of its customers, how very typical

I noticed that several dakkaties have made custom codex's, some of them are VERY good such as "Angry Marines's Codex", maybe they can be convinced to make a custom DE one for 5th Edition?
I'd give it a go if I had the skill to make it balanced, but sadly I don't

Uhmm don't all companies make money at the customers expense?

I don't anything wrong here, they're selling off old stock to get money. They are not going to let it rot in some warehouse and loose money on it are they? Not very business like. If they can sell it they will and will make money on it, from their customers, thats what business are in it for - to make money.

Sidstyler wrote:

All told, the DE army is going to pretty much look about the same as what we had 10 years ago, just with fewer metal bitz.

I find that pretty hard to believe. GW is pretty fething stupid, no doubt, but I don't think they're quite so stupid as to ignore the number one complaint about DE: the ugly fething models.

If you're not going to improve the look, then why bother?

Because GW wants more money, not an improved look.

If you go through GW's model lines, GW doesn't replace plastics when there are metal-and-plastic kits to convert to all-plastic.

By comparison, consider the Wood Elf revamp. WE had monopose infantry that looked absolutely horrid, along with mixed-metal cavalry and clunky Dryads. The monoposes were updated, and new Dryads were sculpted because they were moved to Core. The mixed metal Cavalry became all-plastic. The current Dark Eldar don't have monopose infantry, so there's nothing to change there. Wyches move to Troops, so convert to all-NEW plastic like the Dryads. Mixed metal Special Weapons and Ravagers move to an upgrade sprue.

Yes, GW will make incremental updates to the Wyches, because they're currently metal and will need to be plastic to follow "all Troops available as plastic". But to expect a major change in the Warrior, Raider, or Jetbike models is strange. There is no way that those metal molds have recouped their investment cost, so they'll soldier on. Heck, compare with Catachans - those plastics are just as old, sell far more models, and they're still hanging on.

JohnHwangDD wrote: to expect a major change in the Warrior, Raider, or Jetbike models is strange. There is no way that those metal molds have recouped their investment cost, so they'll soldier on. Heck, compare with Catachans - those plastics are just as old, sell far more models, and they're still hanging on.

Catachans haven't changed because the models sell. I find it far more strange that you don't think they'd dramatically change the DE model line after having seen massive sales boosts for changing the faces of so many other armies in the past. Do you remember what 2nd ed Orks looked like? Or better yet, 2nd ed Tyranids? They both got massive makeovers for 3rd ed. But why would they do that?!? 2nd ed Tyranids were extraordinarily unpopular!!!... Yup, right up until they got a completely new model line... But maybe you're right. Maybe giving the worse model line in the entire game a face lift would be a horrible, horrible mistake... Unless, of course, GW is interested in making money, but that couldn't be...

I started in 2nd Ed, so yeah, I know exactly what the 2E models looked like. I especially remember the luchador Carnifex - that was goofy. But the old Tyrant was a good model. The Stealers have hardly changed from their Space Hulk versions. Gaunts aren't much changed. The metals going to plastic (Nic Warriors, Carnifex) saw really major changes. The new Zo is OK, though I kinda liked the old one.

The Orks went from single pose to multi-pose plastic, just like Eldar Guardians, and are largely unchanged today. But aside from the mixed-metal stuff ('Ard Boyz, Stikbommas, Stormboyz, Burnas), Orks kept most of their silly 2E / GM stuff well into 4th. The tiny cartoony GorkaMorka Trukk & Buggy stayed in production for ages.

So thinking that DE will see their all-plastic kits redone is kind of odd. It's not like GW will save a bunch of plastic & sprues on new Warriors or Raiders or Jetbikes like the new Chimera chassis / Russ chassis changes allow.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What terrible news.

Matybe they're just selling off stock before finally putting that misconcieved army out of everyone's misery.

If only they would do the same to Chaos Daemons.

I dont think there has ever been a more appropriate post to Quote for Truth. Cheese Elemental speaks the truth!


but it occurs to me that they must have at one point expected Dark Eldar to sell well, because I remember them coming in the 40k starter kit once. So it would make sense for them to have a lot of spare stock to get rid of.

The DE molds are probably 12 years old. They likely paid for themselves long ago. Catachans probably still "soldier on" as is for two reasons. First, GW is limited in how many new sprues they can do each year. Machine capacity is limited, and other things (new IG vehicles, for one) were higher priority over new Catachan sculpts. The other reason is that they probably sell better than we give them credit for.

Regarding new molds for DE, they aren't the massive expense anymore that people perceive them to be. I think GW's even said this. Otherwise we wouldn't have plastic Easterlings and other similar niche products in plastic. Again, I think it's less about the molds than it is about getting a spot on the production schedule. I think it's very likely that DE will receive a total redo whenever they happen, given the fact that the miniatures are a bigger fail than the rules (which are 50% fail). It makes little business sense to repeat that mistake.

Now, the real question is when DE get their spot in the production schedule. My uninformed guess is that 2011 is more realistic than 2010. By 2011 they'll probably have Tyranids and the SM chapters out of the way. DE might be competing with Necrons and Inquisition. Or even Chaos Legions, although I think that's residing in the same never-to-happen limbo as Codex: Darkside and Advanced 40K.

You guys watch. Raider lance spam will still be doable, but only if you take the 400 point new Asdrubael Vect special Raider. And Blasters will go up to 25 points each. Bizzarely, Splinter Cannons will retain 4 shots but become 18" S3, and go up to 30 points a piece. Warriors can only take more than one special in squads of ten or more (Raiders will only hold 8). Warriors will cost 11 points each because I5 is so , ahem, powerful. Agonizers will be poison(4+), lose power weapon, gain rending, and cost 35 points.
Grotesques will get FnP, a 5+ invulnerable save, rending, T5, have 2 poison(4+) close combat weapons, and cost 10 points each. But will have to take a leadership test on a 5 without a Haemonculus within 12 inches.

gorgon wrote:The DE molds are probably 12 years old. They likely paid for themselves long ago.

Regarding new molds for DE, they aren't the massive expense anymore that people perceive them to be. I think GW's even said this. Otherwise we wouldn't have plastic Easterlings and other similar niche products in plastic.

The DE molds will only have paid for themselves if enough people bought DE models. Given that GW cut them when molds were expensive, and GW stopped production about 6 years ago due to lack of sales, it is questionable whether those molds have actually paid for themselves.

Plastic Easterlings aren't a niche product any more than any of the WFB armies are. I would love to see the detailed sales, but I wouldn't doubt that GW has sold more boxes of Easterlings in the past few years than DE Warrior squads sold over the past decade. I suspect that Easterlings sell in competitive volumes to any WFB army, and that if you weren't carrying a 40k/WFB bias against LotR/WotR, you'd accept that, too.
____

Railguns wrote:You guys watch.

I could see GW doing all of what you say. Except the Lances. If BS3 Guard pay 25+ pts for a Lascannon, then DE will have to pay more for BS4 Lascannons.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Because GW wants more money, not an improved look.

And an updated look means more money. I've yet to be convinced that a complete facelift would make them less money than attempting to sell off the old gak that no one wanted before.

Who honestly thinks that a new set of core models wouldn't invigorate sales in DE, or any race for that matter?

Besides our resident moon-landing denier, that is.

I see he has been downgraded from holocaust to the moon, nice.

There's a moon landing denier and a holocaust denier around here? Who? Jervis?

BrookM wrote:I see he has been downgraded from holocaust to the moon, nice.

See - insulting and topical. Yet still polite.

Sometimes I impress even myself.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The DE molds will only have paid for themselves if enough people bought DE models. Given that GW cut them when molds were expensive, and GW stopped production about 6 years ago due to lack of sales, it is questionable whether those molds have actually paid for themselves.

Plastic Easterlings aren't a niche product any more than any of the WFB armies are. I would love to see the detailed sales, but I wouldn't doubt that GW has sold more boxes of Easterlings in the past few years than DE Warrior squads sold over the past decade.

They've never been unavailable for purchase. In Canada they were still on GW store shelves, IIRC. Neither of us know the numbers, but I think it's reasonable to say they had a good chance of recouping mold costs over 12 years. Twelve years is a long time, and GW's margins are quite high on plastic kits.

Your stance seems to be that no one bought DE, but I never saw that to be the case. They were a niche army, but Tyranids were very much in the same boat before they got their 4th edition codex.

And were DE moved to MO only due to lack of sales? I've never heard confirmation of that from GW. On the other hand, I do know GW completely eliminated the Squat line and said on record that cancellation wasn't due to lack of sales. Without confirmation, you can't rule out other factors.

I suspect that Easterlings sell in competitive volumes to any WFB army, and that if you weren't carrying a 40k/WFB bias against LotR/WotR, you'd accept that, too.

Yeah, I'm the biased one here, LOL. Especially compared to your even-handed approach to all things DE. No agenda there. No siree.

____

Railguns wrote:You guys watch.

I could see GW doing all of what you say. Except the Lances. If BS3 Guard pay 25+ pts for a Lascannon, then DE will have to pay more for BS4 Lascannons.