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I kinda liked the theory I heard a while ago about GW trying to destroy their own business in a desperate bid to buy it back from the suits and do things their way.

But yeah, I'm thinking pretty much the same thing you are. I'm not hyped or excited like I should be, I just don't give a gak.

H.B.M.C. wrote:So to stop that they're going to be even more secretive? C'mon Grotsnik, it doesn't take an idiot to see that a little transparency would go a long way to cutting out the rumours. Now this doesn't mean that they start releasing detailed product descriptions and release dates months and months in advance, this just means a little more info on what their plans are.

Their afraid that if they mention what Codex is next or go into detail about what's coming out everyone who doesn't play that army will get annoyed and not buy anything. I can sorta see that point, but it's a bit silly. They should be more concerned with getting people to buy their great new upcoming product and hyping that than keeping it secret until the last second as not to offend anyone.

QFT, and everything else HBMC said in his post.

I have another question though:

Does anyone know what the rules are? How the game plays? Anything?

Does anyone know what makes it 'limited edition'? Is is metal minis? Plastic, instead of cardboard? Anything?

So GW expects me to plunk down over $100 for a pre-order for a limited edition game, and I know nothing at all about the rules, or quality of said game? Wow, that takes balls. Granted, some super 3d plastic tiles for the hulk might make me plunk down in spite of the rules, but they'd have to be super-spiffy terrain pieces for the coin.

I mean, tight-lipped is one thing, but the fact they have a 'major release' ready to go tomorrow, and we know nothing about it (and its well inside the 3 months window, btw), is simply off-putting.

This could very well be the beginning of the end.

Actually by giving us early release info, it gives me a chance to buy units to counter the new cheezy units about to be released. If anything, it helps sales to give us advanced notice. I saved up to buy several models based on early info for my guard. I have to travel 400 miles to get to my nearest GW store, and advance notice helps me plan on future orders.

On the flip-side, you could see it that being tight-lipped has created a massive online debate, generating rumours, and therefore gaining a better insight as to what the customers want.

Annoying their customers and casting doubts on their marketing policies probably wasnt the intention.

What is the mystery box? I dont know. But I hope it is something completely out of the blue, that no-one saw coming!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:So to recap, GW are more concerned with accurate rumours, closer to the time of release. Is this such a bad thing? Is it anywhere near Aka_Mythos paranoid fantasy where GW want to eat the Interwebs? No. Of course not. It's a sound business decision.

It sound, but unethical to a company claiming to be supporting and driving a community built around a hobby. You live in the UK where GW can't pull what it did to internet sellers in the US. If they could they'd do it there too. It is a sound business decision to decide you want to better control the flow of information to improve it, its another whole thing to cut off any. This is going on sale with in a week or two, they haven't "told" us what it is. GW doesn't want to be the " Interweb" they just want to be at the center of warhammer and warhammer 40k pockets of it. As it stands hardly anyone has a reason to go to their website. I only go their to check what the MSRP on their products are. They want to be at the center of the online socializing that revolves around their products. That means they have to offer something no other site does, but they've come to the conclusion the easiest way for them to do that is to take away rather than give away anything new. Their precedent of being an unethical purely business oriented company is what I'm basing this on, not on wild conspiracy. When GW is the only $100,000,000 company in this industry it has to be held more accountable for it stupid decisions and bad attitude not less.

Does anyone know if the release of a new Space Hulk is the primary reason why THQ informed Teardown Space Hulk V1.1 was not going to be published?

Teardown
http://www.teardown.se

Will the new Space Hulk be compatible with the Tokens from Litko Aerosystems?

Litko Aerosystems - Token Sets
http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/CTGY/TS

I'm relatively new to GW, only been playing seriously for about 2 years, but I played plenty of other games for years before that.

Other companies had a bad habit of announcing something, with release date, far into the future and missing it if not scrapping the project altogether. If you want to feel like what it is to actually be lied to and feel taken advantage of then you should have played Starship Troopers. Or you could always get involved in Warhammer Historicals

Almost every game and every company I have experience with has a hard time getting a release schedule outside of a month or two and most even have a hard time with that. It's not always their fault as various suppliers, distributors, and other links in the chain can cause problems.

So far I've had a good experience with GW announcing a product and delivering. I've yet to experience a situation where they announced something or a release date and blew it.

I'm not saying it's not frustrating. What GW does is frustrating. As far as I can tell the frustrations stem from GW's release schedule being slower than many of us would like. If GW had a more regular schedule where we could count on 4 40k books, 4 Fantasy books, and 4 "other" (and I'm counting LotR, even though I think it's their best game) releases I think most of us wouldn't mind not knowing what's coming 6 months down the line.

Not that I take most of the whining on here seriously. It seems like most people on the internets would rather spend time whining about things than actually playing or otherwise enjoying the game. It's doubly funny to see people who only contribute their post count have a holier than thou attitude about other sites that try to encourage the hobby.

I can see it now....

The empty podium, with a red velvet curtain behind it. The excited hubbub of the crowd frantically whispering rumours between them in their seats. Then, the sudden silence as a GW executive steps up to the podium.

'Ladies and Gentlemen, I know you've all been waiting months to find out the exact contents of this mystery box. Much speculation, and prediction has taken place, but eventually one rumour gained precedence over all the rest. And I'm happy to say that that rumour was correct. I now proudly present to you, the reintroduction of the classic game...'

The executive takes a step back. The tension is so thick you could cut it with a knife. All the Dakka Dakka members are busily mouthing, 'I told you so!' at each other. With one swift movement, the Executive releases the curtain, revealing an image behind it.

'.....Trolls in the Pantry.'

CaseyVa wrote:
Almost every game and every company I have experience with has a hard time getting a release schedule outside of a month or two and most even have a hard time with that. It's not always their fault as various suppliers, distributors, and other links in the chain can cause problems.

Fantasy Flight Games release schedule, with release dates and status of product (conception stage, print shop, shipping to distributor, shipping from warehouse, available in stores)

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_upcoming.asp

Not that I take most of the whining on here seriously. It seems like most people on the internets would rather spend time whining about things than actually playing or otherwise enjoying the game.

Not only is the FLGS closed (because it's a Sunday and they close ridiculously early), but it's not quite so "local" for me. A two-hour round trip when I have less than $40 on me to cover gas is not all that appealing.

I don't get real games in often, oddly enough most of my enjoyment of the hobby comes from posting on sites like this one and looking at other people's painting/conversion work, reading battle reports, background (less so than other aspects, but I like flipping through the rulebooks now and then though, and some people have written good stuff online), etc. But what I really enjoyed were the rumors, I liked knowing which armies were coming out next, I like seeing previews of FW stuff (like that new Ork vehicle, that looks badass), etc.

I know one thing, I would be a lot less bitter about GW in general if I could at least get some confirmation on one fething army: Dark Eldar. Tired of being left in the dark on that one.

CaseyVa wrote:Other companies had a bad habit of announcing something, with release date, far into the future and missing it if not scrapping the project altogether. If you want to feel like what it is to actually be lied to and feel taken advantage of then you should have played Starship Troopers. Or you could always get involved in Warhammer Historicals

This does happen, but there's a better solution than the "I have something really cool to sell you but I'm not telling you what it is" method that GW has adopted.

The Catalyst Games method.

A long long while ago, Catalyst Games announced the BattleTech TechManual. It was the second core rulebook, and this one was one massive book filled with the fluff for every piece of standard equipment and weapon system in the game as well as full rules for constructing any unit from 'Mechs, to wet-Navy vessels, Drop Ships, infantry platoons, hover tanks and so on. They set a date, showed us previews and it looked great.

Then everything went to hell.

There were delays, significant ones, and the head of BattleTech basically went onto the official website and apologised for the delays and broken promises. They also saw the error in advertising and marketing their new products in such a manner. So they changed that process.

What did they change to? Well they became incredibly secretive about what was going on, not revealing anything until maybe a few weeks before its release. They strung us along with count-downs and mystery items... oh... sorry... no they didn't do any of that.

What they actually did was institute a policy of 'street dates'. The street date would be the date the book or product hit store shelves/online stores. This would only ever be announced within a couple of weeks of that date, and only when they were 110% sure it was going to be out. But up until that street date, they still told us what was coming up, gave PDF previews of the products, and generally kept everyone informed of what was going on. When Strategic Operations, the 4th core rulebook, got delayed due to the whole WizKidz debacle and Topps taking over completely, no one minded that much because Catalyst had yet to announce a street date for it. The PDF was out - so anyone who wanted the book could have it - but if anyone wanted the hard-copy they just had to wait. They have only just now announced the street date because the WizKidz/Topps thing is sorted and they have their first batch of printed copies.

In the meantime we have the developers telling us that only 6 more pages of the RPG need to be proof-read before it's ready to go. We know that they're going to release two more Turning Point campaign books, a new 'Universe Update' sourcebook - we even have the first few pages including the contents page to show us what's in the book - there are two new boxed sets coming, new map-packs that include scenarios, plastic miniatures and a host of other items.

Do we know when these are coming out exactly? No.

But we know they exist, they've been transparent about their existence, we're not kept in the dark. The difficult business decisions that go into production, printing and distribution are kept from us to avoid disappointing anyone, and the cool stuff - the previews and confirmations of new products - they're all on show.

That's a good way to deal with customers: Here's what we're planning, we can't say when it'll be out, but check out these cool previews.

How can anyone like what GW is doing compared to that?

With one swift movement, the Executive releases the curtain, revealing an image behind it . . .

. . . Warhammer 40K Sixth Edition

A reprint of Adeptus Titanicus would be nice as well even though its rules are available on the GW Web site.

Mister Ketara, thanks for the read, I rather enjoyed that.

Fantasy Flight Games doesn't give release dates. They give you a month they hope the game gets out. In fact, FFG is fairly honest in saying there are lots of potential problems that can come up and that's why they don't give any release dates so as to not disappoint people. The company is large enough and well developed enough that it also can reliably announce a product that'll actually exist.

I'm a big fan of their Game of Thrones CCG/LCG and I can tell you that if you wanted to feel like a company was lying and otherwise taking advantage of you then you should have been there for the transition from CCG to LCG. There was a good two month period we thought the game was straight out canceled.

My remarks weren't direct towards you, Sidstyler. I apologize if they were overbroad. I was focusing on those that never play and instead spend a great deal of time griping about the game and everything else, which you obviously don't as you seem to enjoy a great many aspects of the game.


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I like Battletech and I like what the folks at Catalyst have done.

They have the luxury, however, of releasing books and rules and not figures. The figures already exist and all they are doing is updating the rules and cleaning up the game.

Also, while I appreciate the 'mech designs in Battletech they are not as artistic as a range of figures for an army. Dark Eldar, for instance, need to be completely redone. I'd rather the people working on the project take their time to get it right instead of feeling the need to make a release date.

I apologize that my wording was not as clear as it should have been. I'm not saying other companies don't do a better job, what I'm saying is that I've been on the end of companies that were very obviously lying to their customers and otherwise stringing them along. GW seems to want to do things right and it also appears they want to get a better grasp on rumor sites so they can better manage expectations. If GW has no intent of doing a plastic Thunderhawk, which I know through some reputable sources that they do want to do it, it is not fair for some bozo rumor site to say they do want to do it and now GW is being judged for obligations they never made.

You guys want a good example of a 'Mystery Box'? You want to hear a story about a company that got it right when it comes to keeping secret products?

A Gen-Con last year Catalyst Games released a product called "The Blake Documents". It was the next big sourcebook in the 'Word of Blake - Jihad' storyline and moved the universe forward two years. The important thing about this book is that we knew nothing about it. It hadn't been announced or even hinted at (kinda - more on that in a sec) - it was a complete surprise.

So how'd they reveal it?

On the Saturday on Gen-Con they had people dressed up as Word of Blake acolytes 'gate crashing' their booth and seminars screaming "it's all a lie" and things like that. They would tear pages from the book and throw them on the ground. No one knew what this was about, and this got the official boards a'buzzing.

At the same time, on the hour every hour, one of the staff writers would release a PDF of a single page from the book to the website without explaining the context or even what it was. By the end of the day we had a photo of the front cover, but still didn't quite know what it was. In Australia, and many many timezones ahead of Gen-Con, I couldn't stay up all night to wait for the next PDF or the next cryptic hint about what the acolytes were doing - but I wanted to, I was excited, they had me jazzed about a new product I knew nothing about.

Then on Sunday came the big reveal - a huge sourcebook full of information that they had developed in complete secret. That same day it was released as a PDF. The board was alight with joy at the announcement - everyone was equally astonished that they had made this book without anyone knowing, revealed it in a clever 'mystery' sort of way, and then got it out to the masses ASAP once it was revealed.

And the thing that we all laughed at afterwards was that they had hidden the book in plain sight for a year. In their last sourcebook, which was a book centred around in-universe rumours and conspiracy theories, the last chapter contained a briefing on a heavily encrypted document, and all that was shown was a bunch of disconnected headings and titles. Turned out that this section of an in-universe book was actually the contents page for the new book, well in advance of us ever finding out about it.

That's how you do a mystery box. You make it a secret, hype it over a few days and then BANG. You do not hype it over weeks, promise a reveal and then do nothing...

On the Saturday on Gen-Con they had people dressed up as Word of Blake acolytes 'gate crashing' their booth and seminars screaming "it's all a lie" and things like that. They would tear pages from the book and throw them on the ground. No one knew what this was about, and this got the official boards a'buzzing.

lolz, that sounds awesome.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

mikhaila wrote:If this had been a positive marketing experience then there would be more positive comments

Because internet forums are all about positive comments.

Everyone got up early hoping for an announcement and now we're all gnawing at our own intestines in anticipation of being able to run out and throw down 100 bucks on a new game.

I'd say the campaign worked.

For me its more that in an attempt to put the strangle hold on online forums and communities such as this one, GW wants to control information and make themselves the center of things. Let me say this plainly: GW wants to destroy Dakka. This instance only shows what happens when they are the center of rumors and information, they lie and out right say something isn't what it is. Most people who wanted this game would have thrown down money regardless to being lied to. To be happy that they did this only invites the doom.

I'm glad its space hulk. I'm glad space hulk is being redone.

Paranoid much? I think GW are more fed up with spurious and inaccurate rumours leading to a product being rubbished months before it even hits the shelves.

But no, you're right. They are out to get us. And our Nans. And our Hamsters. Especially our Hamsters. Even if you don't have a Hamster, GW are going to send you one. Then just when you've bonded with the furry little fella, they'll take him off you.

And I don't recall being lied to myself. There is a Mystery Box. Nobody yet knows what is inside said Mystery Box. A flier had a picture of a Terminator helmet, and a trailer of some sort involved a Ship flying towards a Space Hulk. Who says these are linked? It could be a teaser for an updated PC game of Space Hulk. We do not know. Only GW knows.

So...

Still trying to get hired on by GW are you?

hat-throwing-into-ring time.
My source says that it will go on pre-order on Monday.
Stores will get their copies on Friday
The release date is 3rd September
Therefore it will give people a bit of time to browse the contents & rules and decide if they want to put their money done.

Myself- I'm putting my money on Fishmen!!!

Alpharius wrote:Still trying to get hired on by GW are you?

Don't you remember Alpha - Grotsnik isn't enthusiastic enough to be a GW employee.

Sidstyler wrote:I know one thing, I would be a lot less bitter about GW in general if I could at least get some confirmation on one fething army: Dark Eldar. Tired of being left in the dark on that one.

*embraces Sidstyler, tucking his face into my shoulder*
There, there. Me too Sid. Me too.
Years ago I vowed never to give GW another penny until this happens. I'm tired of all their pompous grandstanding. In my opinion, they are complete and utter failures to this hobby until certain 3rd ed armies get updated.

Hopefully there's some fresh DE news from GD Germany... But I'm not holding my breath.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Just to put that in perspective, and I preface this by saying I don't know what it was like in your part of the world, but the staff in Oz were told not to discuss or otherwise speculate on the Mystery Box with customers. Mentions of 'Space Hulk' to customers could be met with disciplinary action.

No I'm not making this up.

ARTHUR: Are you releasing Space Hulk?
GW STAFF OF NI: [greatly pained] Aaaaugh! Aaaugh!
HEAD GW STAFF: Don’t say that word!
ARTHUR: What word?
HEAD GW STAFF: I cannot tell. Suffice it to say is one of the words the GW Staff of Ni cannot hear.
ARTHUR: How can we not say the word if you don’t tell us what it is?

If Space Hulk costs 70 quid it better give me a blowjob....

GW marketting has always failed.

SgtDavi wrote:If Space Hulk costs 70 quid it better give me a blowjob....

That sounds extremely painful. Good luck.

RogueMarket wrote:GW has always failed.

Fixed your post.

It IS Space Hulk. As I said, months ago.


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HMBC - that GenCon reveal story etc - GW tried that with Planetstrike, remember? Didn't really work too well.

As for the Dark Eldar, if you read a few posts down in my blog, you'd see they're out in 2011.

Elessar wrote:GW tried that with Planetstrike, remember? Didn't really work too well.

I don't remember them doing anything for Planetstrike.

Or since for that matter.

A great new expansion ignored and forgotten within a month.

Elessar wrote:It IS Space Hulk. As I said, months ago.


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HMBC - that GenCon reveal story etc - GW tried that with Planetstrike, remember? Didn't really work too well.

As for the Dark Eldar, if you read a few posts down in my blog, you'd see they're out in 2011.

Really? You did?

I think everyone was expecting it to SH - not like you have prophetic powers or anything or sources to predict that. Some of us were hoping it might be something else. I am willing to guarantee most people expected SH.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Elessar wrote:GW tried that with Planetstrike, remember? Didn't really work too well.

I don't remember them doing anything for Planetstrike.

Or since for that matter.

A great new expansion ignored and forgotten within a month.

I mean the secretive part. Hiding the Bastion and Skyshield in WD and the BRB etc. We were all a bit WTF about it, but, meh. PS has been arguably a failure, because of us. the pressure we heap on the Studio, even if they ignore most of it, with us complaining constantly, and pretty damn loudly, about Dexes needing redone, has given us an unprecedented release rate recently. It can't keep up. Until it slows down though, Codexes are released, and then they're straight onto the next thing - bad for the game overall, but we don't care, as long as we get updated DE, Necron, Nid, WH, DH etc Codexes.

@fullheadofhair:

Yes. While I didn't know for sure until a few weeks ago, I was over 90% sure for a good long while.