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Jaon wrote:My mistake. I was thinking of Hive Fleet Leviathan.

Aka ONE HIVE FLEET.

oh i know but thats why necrons were my other argument agaisnt the q x)

Soo if all the blackstone fortresses were towed into place and all the nid's directed at them AND the orks decided to join in and the tau thought it would be nice to join and the inquisition and grey knights joined in the q's would definitly be doooomed whilst CHAOS kills chuck norris and the IoM took on the rest of star wars and star treck nothing could stop them !!!!!

Correct me if I am wrong but it is to my understanding that the IoM can't produce machines very well and in star wars there is the planet Kuat that endlessly produced star destroyers, and if man power was a problem they could load the ships with droids to crew them. I just fixed the lack of man power problem that would have given the IoM an advantage. Some one said that blasters are like las guns, incorrect. It is closer to plasma which in 40k seems to be pretty dangerous. Some one also commented on storm trooper accuracy and armor, replace the soldiers and armor with mandalorians. The only thing that would cause 40k to win is the Tyranids... and creed.... other than that i dont see people doing much against Jedi, like some one said, starkiller and Revan.. nuff said.


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If feel like i came off as a D-bag there... sorry if I did..


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sniperjolly wrote:This has come up frequntly, and time and time again the ansewer is the same, the 40k universe would kick the living snot out of just about anyone you care to point a stick at. (Ive heard about one anime that has shuriken the size of galaxys thrown around that popped up in one of theese topics, but I decided to call them an exeption) All the things that make OMFGSUPERGIRMDARK and LOLKEWLUBERBADDASSERYFROMHELL also make it hillariously over the top. From god-titans, ships the size of moons, exterminatus, a populaton of several trillion from one faction alone, the 'nids and necrons, orks and not even mentioning Chaos, coupled with either mindless om-nommery butal warmongering, or eternal xenophobia, there will be crusade, after hive fleet, after WAAAGH! untill they are swallowed in grim darkness.

EDIT: and though Chuck Norris could take on any man in the universe, he would be at a disadvantage against an entire UNIVERSE, even if he is invunerable, and infalliabe and invincible, he still has to kill men one at a time, or dozens at a time, this would take hundreds of thousands of years, and the population would be growing constantly.

I just remembered I wanted to say this, that anime is called Tengen Toppa Gurren lagann and the main character was utilizing the power that drives everything forward.. and yes the last fight was literaly a giant robot duel using galaxies as shuriken while standing on a bigger galaxy... Epic was redefined because of this anime.. I suggest it to everyone...

Zer0Cool wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but it is to my understanding that the IoM can't produce machines very well and in star wars there is the planet Kuat that endlessly produced star destroyers, and if man power was a problem they could load the ships with droids to crew them. I just fixed the lack of man power problem that would have given the IoM an advantage. Some one said that blasters are like las guns, incorrect. It is closer to plasma which in 40k seems to be pretty dangerous. Some one also commented on storm trooper accuracy and armor, replace the soldiers and armor with mandalorians. The only thing that would cause 40k to win is the Tyranids... and creed.... other than that i dont see people doing much against Jedi, like some one said, starkiller and Revan.. nuff said.


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If feel like i came off as a D-bag there... sorry if I did..


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sniperjolly wrote:This has come up frequntly, and time and time again the ansewer is the same, the 40k universe would kick the living snot out of just about anyone you care to point a stick at. (Ive heard about one anime that has shuriken the size of galaxys thrown around that popped up in one of theese topics, but I decided to call them an exeption) All the things that make OMFGSUPERGIRMDARK and LOLKEWLUBERBADDASSERYFROMHELL also make it hillariously over the top. From god-titans, ships the size of moons, exterminatus, a populaton of several trillion from one faction alone, the 'nids and necrons, orks and not even mentioning Chaos, coupled with either mindless om-nommery butal warmongering, or eternal xenophobia, there will be crusade, after hive fleet, after WAAAGH! untill they are swallowed in grim darkness.

EDIT: and though Chuck Norris could take on any man in the universe, he would be at a disadvantage against an entire UNIVERSE, even if he is invunerable, and infalliabe and invincible, he still has to kill men one at a time, or dozens at a time, this would take hundreds of thousands of years, and the population would be growing constantly.

I just remembered I wanted to say this, that anime is called Tengen Toppa Gurren lagann and the main character was utilizing the power that drives everything forward.. and yes the last fight was literaly a giant robot duel using galaxies as shuriken while standing on a bigger galaxy... Epic was redefined because of this anime.. I suggest it to everyone...

Dude Star Killer is dead. And so is Revan. Also the 40k universe produces a ship in an afternoon. Don't Believe read the Cobra Destroyers. They are made in less than 4 hours.]
I usually stay away from these discussions as they usually end up messy but if someone says something that is so wrong, I cannot help it.
Also the 40k Universe has something called Grand Cruisers that strike at kilometers of range. The Star Trek Universe is up close and so is the Star Wars universe. The up close battles of the 40k universe when they do happen, are absolutely devastating as the Imperium always win when it comes to close quarters. Not only that but Phasers would literally bounce off Astrate Armor. And then drop pods are shot at the Enterprise and chainswords rip through every bit of the vessel. Oh look there is another one, lets do it again! The Imperium does not stop, it will never stop, until either they are all destroyed (Which is highly unlikely), or you are all dead. The 40k universe beats the Star Wars and the Star Trek Universe due to numbers, and the fact that their guns are freaking huge and could devastate entire systems.
Also for those of you who are not still satisfied Chuck Norris meet Cato Scarius. OH wait Scarius just impaled Chuck with his own SPINAL CORD. And beat him to death with his own skull.
Sorry to break it to you guys. But 40k Wins. The only universe I believe that could stand up to the 40k universe is well Firefly's Universe, especially the Alliance. Of course they would only last most likely 2 years. And Be decimated to every last man, women and child.

and Cobra's are slightly BIGGER then Star Destoyers.


i throw out the Starkiller based on the fact that its weapon is 100% unscientific and there is no way that it could ever be real. Stars are made of gas and gases don't have a resonance frequency.

Plasma weapons are based upon the only slightly shakey idea of hurling super heated gas down a magnetic tunnel that is projected from the weapon.

the bulk of 40k weapons involve magnetically accelerating solid projectiles. most Star wars weapons are energy based.



all weapons that can be classed as "God weapons" can't be considered. the Starkiller was pure Fanfic that made it into the cannon because Lucas was very loose with the rights in exchange for a cut of all the procedes. even the Deathstar is slightly rediclous, but i will let it slide because they clearly were not overpowered.

Naturally, we can't be 100% scientific with some things that clearly violate the laws of physics. 40K fixes it's Plasma Reacters that violate the laws of Mass to Energy by giving a vauge description that the massive drives that power the Star Ships draw power from Warp Space(a parellel dimension that is has Energy as the dominate form of substanance as opposed to our Dimension that is made up primarly of Matter)


in the end, i am glad that GW doesn't let just anyone write stuff about 40k. it keeps the fluff pure.

Grey Templar wrote:and Cobra's are slightly BIGGER then Star Destoyers.


i throw out the Starkiller based on the fact that its weapon is 100% unscientific and there is no way that it could ever be real. Stars are made of gas and gases don't have a resonance frequency.

Plasma weapons are based upon the only slightly shakey idea of hurling super heated gas down a magnetic tunnel that is projected from the weapon.

the bulk of 40k weapons involve magnetically accelerating solid projectiles. most Star wars weapons are energy based.



all weapons that can be classed as "God weapons" can't be considered. the Starkiller was pure Fanfic that made it into the cannon because Lucas was very loose with the rights in exchange for a cut of all the procedes. even the Deathstar is slightly rediclous, but i will let it slide because they clearly were not overpowered.

Naturally, we can't be 100% scientific with some things that clearly violate the laws of physics. 40K fixes it's Plasma Reacters that violate the laws of Mass to Energy by giving a vauge description that the massive drives that power the Star Ships draw power from Warp Space(a parellel dimension that is has Energy as the dominate form of substanance as opposed to our Dimension that is made up primarly of Matter)


in the end, i am glad that GW doesn't let just anyone write stuff about 40k. it keeps the fluff pure.

Except for Marine Biology.

We were talking about Starkiller the Character XD. HE cannot face an orbital Bombardment.

Marine biology isn't outside the realm of possability.


Humans are, very rarely, born with multiples of organs. there was once 2 siamese twin girls who, on the outside, had 1 body and 2 heads. on the inside they had a single ribcage and body cavity which had 2 Hearts, 3 lungs(the center attached to both windpipes), and 2 stomochs which attached to a single intestinal tract.

the entire system worked just fine. each girl had control of a single arm and leg, but they were able to coordinate perfectly to ride bikes and do other things.


now, this was a strange case of twins(natural clones) that didn't seperate(Siamese twins), but did so in an odd way.

it shows that a single body could support multiple organs.

We make artifical organs now.

eventually, we might be able to make psuedo-living artifical organs and be able to implant them into a human body.

Grey Templar wrote:Marine biology isn't outside the realm of possability.


Humans are, very rarely, born with multiples of organs. there was once 2 siamese twin girls who, on the outside, had 1 body and 2 heads. on the inside they had a single ribcage and body cavity which had 2 Hearts, 3 lungs(the center attached to both windpipes), and 2 stomochs which attached to a single intestinal tract.

the entire system worked just fine. each girl had control of a single arm and leg, but they were able to coordinate perfectly to ride bikes and do other things.


now, this was a strange case of twins(natural clones) that didn't seperate(Siamese twins), but did so in an odd way.

it shows that a single body could support multiple organs.

We make artifical organs now.

eventually, we might be able to make psuedo-living artifical organs and be able to implant them into a human body.

I'm talking about forge World XD

You forgot to add Mr.T......"I pitty the fool that does include me in this match up."

Asherian Command wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Marine biology isn't outside the realm of possability.


Humans are, very rarely, born with multiples of organs. there was once 2 siamese twin girls who, on the outside, had 1 body and 2 heads. on the inside they had a single ribcage and body cavity which had 2 Hearts, 3 lungs(the center attached to both windpipes), and 2 stomochs which attached to a single intestinal tract.

the entire system worked just fine. each girl had control of a single arm and leg, but they were able to coordinate perfectly to ride bikes and do other things.


now, this was a strange case of twins(natural clones) that didn't seperate(Siamese twins), but did so in an odd way.

it shows that a single body could support multiple organs.

We make artifical organs now.

eventually, we might be able to make psuedo-living artifical organs and be able to implant them into a human body.

I'm talking about forge World XD

Forge World

what exactly are you talking about?

Forge World, Marine Biology???


Starkiller made sense, but this is confusing.

Grey Templar wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Marine biology isn't outside the realm of possability.


Humans are, very rarely, born with multiples of organs. there was once 2 siamese twin girls who, on the outside, had 1 body and 2 heads. on the inside they had a single ribcage and body cavity which had 2 Hearts, 3 lungs(the center attached to both windpipes), and 2 stomochs which attached to a single intestinal tract.

the entire system worked just fine. each girl had control of a single arm and leg, but they were able to coordinate perfectly to ride bikes and do other things.


now, this was a strange case of twins(natural clones) that didn't seperate(Siamese twins), but did so in an odd way.

it shows that a single body could support multiple organs.

We make artifical organs now.

eventually, we might be able to make psuedo-living artifical organs and be able to implant them into a human body.

I'm talking about forge World XD

Forge World

what exactly are you talking about?

Forge World, Marine Biology???


Starkiller made sense, but this is confusing.

Nah they got he Marine Stuff wrong, they act out of character in the books.

Asherian Command, I asked for the corrections, thank you for making them. It was to my understanding the Imperium has some problems with going backward in their technological know how.

whos starkiller? x)

Zer0Cool wrote:Asherian Command, I asked for the corrections, thank you for making them. It was to my understanding the Imperium has some problems with going backward in their technological know how.

Actually that is false, they are going foward, they are not going backwards. They develop new weapons and such very quickly

This is starkiller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs_kkJRNbf0

A wanna be darth vader, who they created so they would have another all powerful character to sell games with.

And the lasguns don't even matter. The imperium of man has more lascannons than the Star Wars universe has soldiers.


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I agree with everyone who's stated that nothing after the original three movies counts as star wars.

Yes, the IoM does conduct reaserch.

Power Armor is a good example of advancement. each new mark is substantionally more advanced then the last.

MarkVIII provides significantly more protection then many of the predecessors. some suits even contain experamental Power Gauntlets, containing many Power Fist componants in miniature, allowing for the wearer to have many of the benifits of a Power Fist while still allowing for full use of the hand.


there is other advancement going on. the main reason many dpn't think there is much going on is because the advancements are mostly confined to the Adeptus Mechanicus and they are very methodical in field testing stuff.

there is also the scale issue. it could take thousands of years for an improvement in Lasgun Power packs to work it's way down to being standard issue for all lasguns simply because A: lasguns are manufactured EVERYWHERE and it will take forever to get all the Power pack machines upgraded and B: some manufacturing centers might get overlooked in the beuracratic network and just take that much longer.


and, When you really think about it, most technological advancements by themselves have only a small impact on there area of application.

a 10% increase in ammunition carried by a U.S soldier is a big increase, but is it a huge deal? modern wars involve hundreds, sometimes thousands, or rounds being fired for each person killed because so much is given to supressing the enemy because the combatents are nearly 100% reliant on cover and need to stay inside of it.


approx 73 million people died in WW2, civilian and military.

during the war around 19.7 billion bullets were fired.

thats about 269 bullets per death.


some advances don't make warfare more efficient.

Lord Malorne wrote:Without the Q's IoM wins, with them... well, what can you do!

Well, nothing!

Q is the basic idea of God within the Star Trek universe without actually BEING the religious God we are most familiar with.

Q can do anything, really. The Q have been around since the birth of the Universe, and as such are billions of years old. Remember, the Q are a group of beings, not jsut a single person, so they can match up with pantheons of other gods quite easily.

In Start Trek, the Q are actually bored with existence, and some are seeking suicide as a way to end their lives. Why? They have been around since the big bang, and have done everything there is to do in existence. They have traveled and mastered the entire universe, not just a single Galaxy.

The Q are able to grant the powers of being a Q on a whim, so lets say it takes 100 Q to kill Tzeentch, well, the Q can jsut make 1000 more at the drop of a hat.

Basically, Q are the science fiction version of God. Not just piddly gods that live in one planet or even on galaxy, but THE God. Q can just wander by a solar system, snap its finger, and turn the entire solar system into a candy bar.

Like I said earlier, though, if you take 'gods' out of the equation, well, the 40k Universe would dominate without question. There are just too many people to deal with.

Of course this is just my opinion based on fiction. I am neither wrong nor right. If Gw would come out with 'canon' fiction that some God or Gods have powers that rival Q, then I would change my mind, but for now, Q span all of existence, while the 40k Gods seem to die left and right and only span a galaxy, if that.

Astrates armor is always being improved.
Terminator Armor has actually improved alot. And provides more advanced things.
Ships now have entire holo rooms. And the fleets of the Imperium keep getting better and better.

40K would win for several reasons
a) CREEEEEEEEEED!!!!
b) ORKSES!
c) Space Bugs
d) Chaos
e) all those other nasties out there

In some galaxy NOT so far away, Kirk goes lets make peace with that old guy over there in that false moon.
He sees Vader, says and runs for his life.
they meet the rebels, they think he work for vader and try to pwn him, vader comes with storm troopers, manage to pwn em all and heads back to death star, gets lost in space and ends up on that necron thing and gets sucked into a gauss weapon.
Palpatine gets angry and uses his force powers, then he opens a second eye of terror and get sucked into the warp.
Creed makes the space bugs outflank Chuck Norris and then blasts them all with several DEATHSTRIKE MISSILE LAUNCHERS!!!!

The End


M.K

40k would win :thumbs up:
Lysander can kill anything.

Except MR T!


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And regarding every Chuck Norris joke in existence.
I lost all interest in the jokes after i found out that Carlos Ray Norris (His real name) sued the creator of the Chuck Norris jokes....What a D##%

Ya, ya. Star Trek might have Q, but 40K has C'tans. Sun eaters. Ya, that's a fight I like to see.

alright its settled 40k wins

Haha, surprise appearance of another question!

Although I know 40k will still win this, I just want to hand out wooden spoons. A fairer comparison could be to have a starship from 40k, Star Trek and Star Wars all facing each other in 1-1 duels. I'd put forward the following ships:

SW - Either Executor (Super Star Destroyer) or Eclipse (a cloned Emperor's Super Star Destroyer with a Death Star gun )
ST - Not my forte, going with USS Enterprise
40k - Is Planet Killer OP? If so then maybe a Retribution. I don't know Inter-Universe ship scale, so then a Mars Class Battlecruiser?

(In cheesy Street Fighter style) FIGHT!

Voronesh wrote:Trek always wins.

Just because of the Tech.

Phasers hit just about always. Which is something that cannot be said about 40k ships.

Apart from that its omnipotent beings against omnipotent beings.

And Borg.....they just adapt. Species 8472 beats even that. Say goodbye chosen fleet of 40k. Star Wars whatever. Its not called treknobabble for nothing.

Ninja'd...

Voronesh is right. A snap of the thumb and finger and this conflict is over. No one in 40k or Star Wars is without limits...Q is.


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Mark1130 wrote:Ya, ya. Star Trek might have Q, but 40K has C'tans. Sun eaters. Ya, that's a fight I like to see.

C'Tans have stats and can be killed. Q has never been affected by anything than another Q. Even the Chaos gods have limits.


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Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:alright then so it boils down to everything appart from 40k getting p4wned because of the literaly indescribable size and nature of most of its species and vovager and the whole treck universe would get owned by one emperor class battleship and Q vs the gods of chaos and the emperor there all omnipotent and its 5 vs one !!!! the starwars would be the hardest but a few templar crusades and imperial navy taskforces and all of the titans as one warhound is the size of an at-at it goes without saying the warhound will win so 40k beats all commers without releasing the nid's or th orks or anything else !!!!



If the emporer and the chaos gods were omnipotent there would be no battles between their followers...they would simply "will" their enemies away. It's like comparing the Christian God and the Greek gods. The Greek gods are powerful...but they can be killed. Q cannot, and is not on the same level as the emporer and the chaos gods.

Be glad...if the chaos gods were Q there would be no 40k universe


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Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:alright then so it boils down to everything appart from 40k getting p4wned because of the literaly indescribable size and nature of most of its species and vovager and the whole treck universe would get owned by one emperor class battleship and Q vs the gods of chaos and the emperor there all omnipotent and its 5 vs one !!!! the starwars would be the hardest but a few templar crusades and imperial navy taskforces and all of the titans as one warhound is the size of an at-at it goes without saying the warhound will win so 40k beats all commers without releasing the nid's or th orks or anything else !!!!



If the emporer and the chaos gods were omnipotent there would be no battles between their followers...they would simply "will" their enemies away. It's like comparing the Christian God and the Greek gods. The Greek gods are powerful...but they can be killed. Q cannot, and is not on the same level as the emporer and the chaos gods.

Be glad...if the chaos gods were Q there would be no 40k universe

WhiteBishop wrote:Haha, surprise appearance of another question!

Although I know 40k will still win this, I just want to hand out wooden spoons. A fairer comparison could be to have a starship from 40k, Star Trek and Star Wars all facing each other in 1-1 duels. I'd put forward the following ships:

SW - Either Executor (Super Star Destroyer) or Eclipse (a cloned Emperor's Super Star Destroyer with a Death Star gun )
ST - Not my forte, going with USS Enterprise
40k - Is Planet Killer OP? If so then maybe a Retribution. I don't know Inter-Universe ship scale, so then a Mars Class Battlecruiser?

(In cheesy Street Fighter style) FIGHT!

Super Star Destroyers are 3 times the size of a Retribution capitol ship. 19km vs 7.5 km.

however, this isn't a proper comparison as SSDs aren't a main line battleship(which a Retribution is), but are rather a heavy flag ship who's primary purpose is to protect the fleet commander and provide a rallying point. Retributions are more heavily armed for their size then a SSD is.

SSDs weren't common either as they were only beginning to be deployed in the latter days of the GE. even at their intended deployment numbers there were never more then 1 per fleet. it isn't uncommon for there to be 5-10 Retribution or similer sized ships in an IoM fleet.

one on one: the Retribution vessel will likely stay at long range and use it's superior range to battle the SSD(Star Wars ship battles are done at very close range, suggesting that their weapons either have a low range, the targeting systems can't detect targets beyond a few dozen kilometers, or both) if they do manage to close, the SSD will likely have taken a massive beating while the Retribution will only have had it's shields rattled. IoM ships use solid slug weapons which will pass right through the GE shields while the SSD has laser cannons which will be stopped by Void Shields. basically, the Retribution will be doing actual damage long before the SSD does.

eventually, the IoM will try to board. IoM storm trooper boarding parties with Flamers, shotguns, and Lasguns will likely make short work of Storm Trooper resistance. this is because Storm Trooper armor is made to withstand energy weapons, and we all know how effective it is , not solid slug weapons. the Shotguns and flamers will just bypass their defense.



Retribution vs Enterprise: need i say more?

the Enterprise isn't on the graph, but the Soveriegn is which is bigger then the Enterprise. it's the first ship in the lowerleft group.

I hate trekkies never see reason in the debate and believe the Q don't have limits. They might have limits its just they might of never showed it. Anything can be killed, sorry to burst your bubbles but each thing can be killed no matter what.

Astrates + Bolters = Thousands of dead Storm Troopers.

End.

Grey Templar wrote:

Retribution vs Enterprise: need i say more?

the Enterprise isn't on the graph, but the Soveriegn is which is bigger then the Enterprise. it's the first ship in the lowerleft group.

Unless it's the USS Enterprise-E, which is a Sovereign Class ship. Also, being able to fire weapons at FTL speeds gives the Federation a considerable advantage versus both the Imperium and the Empire in 1 on 1 combat (and please, let's not let this go where it did last time with multiple pages amounting to basically "my ship is so fast you can't see it!" "nu-uh!" "is too!"! One on one, the Federation actually has the advantage, but considering the sheer numbers of the Imperium, they can just zergling rush the Federation until they run out of torpedoes)

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Retribution vs Enterprise: need i say more?

the Enterprise isn't on the graph, but the Soveriegn is which is bigger then the Enterprise. it's the first ship in the lowerleft group.

Unless it's the USS Enterprise-E, which is a Sovereign Class ship. Also, being able to fire weapons at FTL speeds gives the Federation a considerable advantage versus both the Imperium and the Empire in 1 on 1 combat (and please, let's not let this go where it did last time with multiple pages amounting to basically "my ship is so fast you can't see it!" "nu-uh!" "is too!"! One on one, the Federation actually has the advantage, but considering the sheer numbers of the Imperium, they can just zergling rush the Federation until they run out of torpedoes)

I can't believe you forgot about the fact that the Cobra Fighters are always with the Returbition ships and will take care of the USS Enterprise. But the Federation may be fast but they don't strike at ridiculously long distances.
If anyone brings Stargate into this I will say that Stargate can't really do anything, in that they need stargates which will not be in the IOM of man. So there goes that plan for them.

Asherian Command wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Retribution vs Enterprise: need i say more?

the Enterprise isn't on the graph, but the Soveriegn is which is bigger then the Enterprise. it's the first ship in the lowerleft group.

Unless it's the USS Enterprise-E, which is a Sovereign Class ship. Also, being able to fire weapons at FTL speeds gives the Federation a considerable advantage versus both the Imperium and the Empire in 1 on 1 combat (and please, let's not let this go where it did last time with multiple pages amounting to basically "my ship is so fast you can't see it!" "nu-uh!" "is too!"! One on one, the Federation actually has the advantage, but considering the sheer numbers of the Imperium, they can just zergling rush the Federation until they run out of torpedoes)

I can't believe you forgot about the fact that the Cobra Fighters are always with the Returbition ships and will take care of the USS Enterprise. But the Federation may be fast but they don't strike at ridiculously long distances.
If anyone brings Stargate into this I will say that Stargate can't really do anything, in that they need stargates which will not be in the IOM of man. So there goes that plan for them.

I can't believe you missed that this was about 1 on 1. Besides, what would the escorts do against a target they can't see?