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Sooo... you can have 4 of these right? Since SWs can have 4 HQ slots (or rather 2 choices per slot)?

Yup, you can take 4.
Think of them as very weak but destructive and costly KP's

I think there's some debate over whether you can have two Rune Priests with the same psychic powers, let alone four of them. That said, pretty please take four of them.

Today I went in GW to check for myself about Runepriests having the same psychic powers
It say's no 2 HQs can have the same psychic power combos. But for 50pts each they can pick a second psychic power and thus don't have the same combo.

So to have 4 Runepriests with this - 24" roll a 6 auto kill, initiative test failure kills too - power means it'd cost 600pts.

I don't even 1 Runepriest with this power by itself (100 pts) could make up it's point costs unless the army is elite or lines up their squads one infront of the other. I'm gonna try it out and report back.

Tarondor:

The debate, if I can call it that with a straight face, is here if you want to weigh in.

Mind you, these debates only really come up when there's some advantage to be gained from some difference of interpretation in the rules, and since the Rune Priests don't really confer an advantage under any reasonable interpretation, it probably won't torment us the way that some others have.

You seem to forget that the psychological effect of this power
eventually affects the way the enemy plays.
He/She might react to this power during the game changing the tactics.
This might be beneficiary to the SW player.

I can't find any mention of 'Removed from play' in the actual main rulebook, is it even addressed? Are we all just assuming that means no cover, armour or invuln. save? Anyone got a page reference?

Removed from play is just that, removed from the table and any consideration for kill points. No saves.

Tarondor wrote:I can't find any mention of 'Removed from play' in the actual main rulebook, is it even addressed? Are we all just assuming that means no cover, armour or invuln. save? Anyone got a page reference?

Armandloft wrote:Removed from play is just that, removed from the table and any consideration for kill points. No saves.

To discuss this a bit further, I would like to agree with Armandloft that the term "removed from play" is pretty straight forward: the model is physically removed from the table and is a casualty.

However, to discuss the reason why there are not saves of any kind: saving throws are taken in reaction to wounds. The only time the rules tell us to roll a save is if a model takes a wound, or if a vehicle receives a penetrating or glancing hit. Therefore, if the game presents a different mechanic for doing damage that does not cause wounds, it does not trigger saving throws.

Mechanics such as Gift of Chaos, Boon of Mutation, and Jaws of the World Wolf trigger just such an event.

Other mechanics that have alternate rules for damage (such as Mind War, or a Neural Disruptor, for some examples) can still allow saving throws despite not using the standard Strength vs. Toughness mechanic because the end result of the damaging roll is wounds caused.

Yeah I was really just playing devils advocate for someone to give me a 100% solid answer that everyone would agree on or for there to me actual mention in the rules.

@willydstyle: Your answer is pretty much textbook (despite it being in a book =P) and I doubt anyone could argue against your explanation. Unless ofcourse anyone wants to try.

But at the end of the day this rule is being over-hyped by everyone, it'll not be as useful as thought.

There's never going to be a 100% answer that everyone will agree on, and someone (often many people) will argue against the simplest and most airtight explanation.

But back on topic, has anyone else noticed that the Jaws of the World Wolf has complementary powers? Tempest's Wrath, for example, affects the models that Jaws of the World Wolf affects.

Fury of the World Spirits is just another Doombolt/Smite Sith-lightening power.

Storm-Caller actually looks useful, since it doesn't look like Space Wolves can afford meat-shields.

Thunderclap is an anti-horde power and looks like it could kill an unlucky Rune Priest - he has to touch it and it affects anything touching the blast marker. But if its a psychic shooting attack, isn't there the possibility that the blast marker might scatter?

Living Lightening is random, and such random powers are usually rejected by players.

Murderous Hurricane is a discount version of an Eldar power nobody takes, Eldritch Storm.

Tempest's Wrath, for example, affects the models that Jaws of the World Wolf affects.

I think you meant to say doesn't affect, which it does to an extent 9non-skimmer vehicles could care less though). And yeah I can see it being somewhat handy in a metagame filled with skimmers and daemons.

Fury of the World Spirits is just another Doombolt/Smite Sith-lightening power.

Pretty much I guess, gives up some ap2 killy for easy moral test causing and more shots. Better range and it might have been useful.

Storm-Caller actually looks useful, since it doesn't look like Space Wolves can afford meat-shields.

5+ cover save is ok. 6" range is not great though. Still worthwhile though.

Thunderclap is an anti-horde power and looks like it could kill an unlucky Rune Priest - he has to touch it and it affects anything touching the blast marker. But if its a psychic shooting attack, isn't there the possibility that the blast marker might scatter?

For one, it says enemy models under the marker, so rune priest and friendlies are immune. For two, yes we are back to deciding what shooting rules apply to shooting powers that work differently then a standard shooting attack. Thanks Phil. For three, how it works is almost moot becuase it is a garbage power. It makes nurgles rot look awesome. No one will take it.

Living Lightening is random, and such random powers are usually rejected by players.

Lootas are random also but no one takes them... This is unlimited range autocannon in an army that wants to crack open transports early. I like it, YMMV.

Murderous Hurricane is a discount version of an Eldar power nobody takes, Eldritch Storm.

Naw. This is the actual horde killer, not that trash Thunderclap. 10-11 average hits and I get to force more kills if they move next turn. Handy against hordes -- too bad few people play hordes anymore. Maybe the Nid codex will change that though.

Nurglitch wrote:There's never going to be a 100% answer that everyone will agree on, and someone (often many people) will argue against the simplest and most airtight explanation.

But back on topic, has anyone else noticed that the Jaws of the World Wolf has complementary powers? Tempest's Wrath, for example, affects the models that Jaws of the World Wolf affects.

Fury of the World Spirits is just another Doombolt/Smite Sith-lightening power.

Storm-Caller actually looks useful, since it doesn't look like Space Wolves can afford meat-shields.

Thunderclap is an anti-horde power and looks like it could kill an unlucky Rune Priest - he has to touch it and it affects anything touching the blast marker. But if its a psychic shooting attack, isn't there the possibility that the blast marker might scatter?

Living Lightening is random, and such random powers are usually rejected by players.

Murderous Hurricane is a discount version of an Eldar power nobody takes, Eldritch Storm.

You want to know the one power you missed that absolutely destroys? Tempests Wrath. Oh hi Mechdar, Jetbike Spam, Jetcouncils, Valk / Vend. Spam, BA and DE! Yeah, don't go 24" within this guy.

Living Lighting + Saga of the Beast Slayer + Choser of the Slain. Hi guys! I'm the unlimited range BS5 with rerolls guy that gets D6 ST7 attacks! Yep say bye to your dreds!

Murderous Hurricane isn't bad for sure, go use it against fast assault armies and Difficult / Dangerous Terrain Win! Can you say orks will hate you when they have to roll 30 dice with 1's causings wounds. Hell, EVERYTHING will hate you! Even 10 man squads will lose at least one wound to this if not more! 30 man squads should lose 5! Not bad at all methinks.

winterman:

You're right: I made an error. Still, interesting to see those complementary powers though: makes for some interesting strategic decisions, particularly in composing tournament armies.

Fury of the World Spirits would be better if, like Doombolt it had the 18" or combination with a Warptime-like power.

The 6" range of Storm-caller is pretty good. Nurgle's Rot is pretty awesome because it has a 6.5"-7" radius, and can be used in close combat. That makes it considerably more effective than a psychic shooting power with a 5" blast marker. Plus it tends to come attached to a model that's one heck of a better fighter than a Rune Priest. The Storm-caller is rather more like a psychic Kustom Force Field though.

Speaking of Orks, Lootas aren't random. A full sized unit would be impressive even if they only had Heavy 1 each, becaue there's 15 of them. The random extra shots almost make up for their delicate nature and Heavy Weapons. The Rune Priest doesn't have that reliable lower bound, so one S7 hit is pretty unlikely to harm an AV12 Dreadnought: you'd need a 5 for a glancing hit. Plus the AP isn't good. Might be good against mobs of Killer Kans and other stuff that Space Wolves don't want to charge into. Does the Chooser of the Slain improve the Rune Priest's BS to 5?

Murderous Hurricane might work better if it had a longer range than 18", or if it affected vehicles. Otherwise the unit can sit for a turn and simply shoot up the Rune Priest and his unit. Even Ork Boyz have Shootas. Still, at least it does more than just act as another gun.

Is this a troll Post??

Sorry I did not read the whole post but and if this is a repeat sorry, but this does not say anything about models in close combat, so if you have something that is in CC with one of your units you can snipe them out... interesting hu????

I guess this power is used in the shooting phase.
If a model is locked in cc, it cannot shoot and so this power can eventually not be used in this situation.

According to the compilation thread it's a psychic shooting attack. So a model is safe its Jump Infantry, Jetbike, Vehicle, mounted in a transport, in close combat, or the Rune priest is in close combat.

Sorry let me clearify this, lets say you have a fex locked in CC with blood claws durring the shooting phase have your RP Shoot the fex to free up your Blood Claws.

OR

IF something is holding an objective while in CC you can shoot them off the objective now even if they are in CC.

Interesting Hu?

Dr_Chin:

It's a psychic shooting attack, that means you can't shoot models in close combat, or use it when the Rune Priest is in close combat, not without specific provision for doing so in the rules for the psychic power.

I got ya but one could argue that they drew an indiscriminate straight line and opps that model that is in CC just happened to be in the way, so what then???

Do you get what I am saying, I also don’t have the book with me but I remember is does say it ignores certain things like terrain etc.. I dont think it says that it ignores things in CC.

Sorry but its going to happen and this rule will come up, again thank you GW for a clear cut rule.

but they aren't drawing an indiscriminate line.

just like flamers, you cannot cover your own models with it, and you cannot target units in hand to hand.

Then the psychic shooting attack rule against shooting into close combat comes into play and the players get on with the game. I'd imagine if a 24" line cannot be drawn without intersecting a close combat, then the power cannot be used.

It does say models it does not say enemy models, and you cannot tell me that this rule will not come up and come up a lot, there is nothing that says it cannot touch its own model, and this is not a template weapon this is a new and there is nothing that says you can or cannot I would think that since GW did not clarify only enemy models I think they plan on people doing this.

If you want to get technical how wide is the line drawn? Oh it does not specify, an inch is huge if we are talking 1/16" of an inch, get what I am saying.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nurglitch

IF that is the case then this is a less effective weapon then I though, esp against Daemon bombs.

there is also no rule that says I can't slap my wang down on the table and count it as a twin linked venom cannon.

the game is permissive. you can't just do things because it doesn't say you can't.

Horst
First If you have a twin linked wang I would get that checkout lol

I am just saying this is going to come up a lot and warhammer players will take advantage of the lack of rules, I would like some clarification before an argument starts.

Necron armys are so f***** against this type or power.

Poor Necron warriors 2/6 of passing LOL.

Another good question would be how tall is the line also does it reach the 3rd or 5th floor if someone is in a building? It does say it ignores terrain, so that does mean that it treats all levels as being on the bottom floor? hummmm? Interesting!

They did play test this right?

Dr_Chin:

I'm going to say something rude, but I really don't mean it to be rude: go get your rulebook and read it. Carefully, front to back, and make careful note of the rules of psychic shooting attacks, and buildings.

You are not being rude I am just looking for clarification and I don’t think there is one at this time:
Q. Do psychic shooting attacks grant cover saves?
A. Yes, as long as they cause wounds. Cover saves are taken against wounds caused by psychic shooting attacks, not against any other ‘weirder’ effects of the psychic power.

yes I know this attack does not offer a save.

Without having the book with me I think it states that it ignores terrain etc.. so this is one of the 'weirder' effects that needs to be addressed.
Think about it and I know roll off if there is a question about the rules, I think because this can make or break a game, there should be some clarification and I don’t think the basic rules address this.
Again how wide is the line also? I could be making mountains out of molehills but things are not defined as well as they should there will be issues.
OR
Maybe I am just thinking more in to this then I should, I tend to do this.