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Funneh, my warboss's klaw was smothered in blood, as were all my Nob's weapons when I was at your house. No influence what so ever? Unlikley.

What? Orks are called the *flips through codex* most bloodthirsty aliens in the galaxy for a reason!

Listen, you got a problem, deal with it and stop wasting the time of these good people.

But I like my blood... ) ':

RTB01 how I miss it. That with a tenner for 2 rhino's and maybe £4 or £5 for a few heavy weapons and characters army sorted.

Remember the great guard and ork boxes they did?

Value for our money bring it back. The post on the cost of producing those miniatures shows what an insane profit margin they have, guess the only option you'll ever have though to show them they have went too far is stop buying from them. You hit their profits they will listen, otherwise they're just going to keep hiking the prices up.

GW claiming your own ideas as theirs however really disgusts me, credit where credit is due imo.

And agreeing witrh the bits ordering service dissapearing was a huge blow to the modellers. I think its just their attempt to make us buy full kits to get one single peice from it at a stupidly higher cost than that one metal peice from a model. There is being a business and then just taking greed too far. Ebay for the win.

Monthly subscription? Hehe I just kicked that habit after a couple of years, but Blizzard and GW have something in common, their product is getting worse and worse each release with too many fan boys. At least some criticism of blizzard was allowed on their forums though and not quietly removed like Big Brothers agents would have done.

GW probably figures they own all of your conversion ideas anyway, since you're using their IP.

Honestly though you can't really copyright something like a pose, so you can't really say they're "stealing" anything from you...unless of course they post a picture of your model and claim that some guy in the studio painted and converted it, which is bs.

I think it's more they are presenting the whole idea as their own?

Sidstyler wrote:

Honestly though you can't really copyright something like a pose, so you can't really say they're "stealing" anything from you...unless of course they post a picture of your model and claim that some guy in the studio painted and converted it, which is bs.

GW did not print a picture of my model. My beef is that their WD contributer, took photo's of my converted model, got me to write a 'how to' guide, and led me to beleive that it would be published in WD. Then did it himself and published it in the book. As hobbyists, we do it all the time copying an idea, but as a company, its not acceptable IMO. My -ve's about GW I've mentioned previously in this thread. I also don't beleive GW's strategy is to look after their customers long term, more of a take the next year of 12 year olds into the fold for a couple of years, when the real spending power is with the more mature gammer.

But what about the +ve's?

I first got into the Hobby through Space Crusde, my first GW games were Space Hulk and Space Marine (Epic) bought for Christmas. Since that time GW has allowed my imagination and creativity to continue for +20yrs. In a world where everyhting is the latest gadget, I still sit here for hours with a knife, glue, paints, and just paint.
I have a very stressful job. I'm currently on assignment in Saudi Arabia and I'm living in a tent on the end of an Airbase in the middle of no-where and 'things' could kick off at any moment. GW gives me a release from the world I'm in. I'm not sitting in a tent in 54 degrees, I'm bringing his Ork Eavy Bomma to life, making it real, creating the 48th replacement aircraft required for the most successful Ork pilot in Vulcha Squadron, RazzNutz (readers of the old Inferno mags will know to whom I refer )
GW allow me to inspire people. When my armies are out on a table, they attrack a lot of attention, kids love them, and it inspires them to go and improve themselves.
I'm 31 and I still play 'toy soliders' with my friends of similar ages, nowadays it more centers around a BBQ with half a dead cow on it and large quantities of beers. If we are not round one of our houses, we are at GW HQ, where the WAGs tag along, taking equal amounts of spending money which we intend to use on new toys, and they bugger off to Nottingham Town Centre shops for the day. GW gives me a Social gathering with friends.
I've an 8 year old Nephew who's determined to have an army in order to fight 'uncle G'. GW puts me on the same level as my 8yr old nephew.
Value for money? GW prices are high, but for the cost of a night out on the town, I could buy a battleforce, which would give me 20-30 times the entertainment time building and painting it, than the night out on the town. Then there's the gaming time........
GW is good for young people. Lets face it, they spend far too much time on Facebook or sitting in front of the TV. With GW their imagination runs wild taking command of an army or small force, making them make choices, maths, imagination, social, dedication, all these skills come from the GW hobby.

GW is my release from the world, I bring dead lumps of plastic and metal to life by painting them into colourful characters and when I'm painting, I forget about all the sh*te going on around me.

Hi again.
I just like to put TheSecretSquig right on a few points...

All the positives you list are down to your own imagination and creativity, and the wonderful 'table top minature gaming' hobby.
You chose to use GW product and venues , you are not enabled by GW PLC, but GW PLC is enabled by you!

As reguards to price , much cheaper products are available of similar or better quality.GW seem to attract more custom due to proliferation and higher profile.And a mis-leading sales pitch.

I am rather shocked that such an intelegent an mature person could succum to the 'GW brain wash' of 'we own this hobby and let you participate'.
And as such I felt compelled to post.

TTFN
Lanrak.

Lanrak - Sorry I disagree. There is not a wargames company on the market other than GW that has a background as rich, in depth, or as diverse as the one GW has created that allows a persons creativity and imagination to develop. GW create the most minatures than any other wargames company and the models hey creat certainly give you the more flexability due to their design.

No other company can provide a new young wargamer the inspiration (like when ou first walked in a GW store) or everything under one roof (Game, models, paints, toolsl, rules etc). Once your hooked on the hobby, then, like myself and many other hobbyists, do you look outside the GW blinkers and get other tools, models etc from other sources to supplement your hobby.

I beleive GW is the core of everyones hobby, otherwise you wouldn't be on this forum

What I don't like about GW besides prices?
MY FRICKING EXPENSIVE, PERSONALLY BOUGHT, 15 EUROS EACH COSTING KROXIGORS SUCK NOW. ALSO MY SKINKS CAN'T HAVE SCOUTS NOW. GODDAMMIT!
And that, my fellow nerds, is what I hate about GW.

I have to say that I totally agree with the points that the positive posters are saying, up to a point. Casual gaming and enjoying the hobby "as it comes out of the box" is great. You have the pleasure of painting the models, playing with friends and even getting the kids involved.

However from what I've read in this post, it's when you move up to the next stage that GW becomes the monster. You invest time and money in an army that GW has released & promoted, only to see it become unsupported and invalid a short time down the road. The army may stay valid, but over time it suffers due to the codex being left behind, or you have to remodel it / purchase new models due to the new codex invalidating certain weapon combos.

As long as you don't expect or want too much out the GW universe, then what they are selling works. It's just a shame that GW appear to be happy with this model of business, when they could do so much more with it.

What I don't like is the LoTR Ringwraiths getting named and having that sense of fear lost.

They left me...

Oh and if you were an Iron Warrior's player and bought a basilisk you wasted 40 bucks as of the new Chaos codex.

During the Golden Age (good old days) of Games Workshop.. Reasonable pricing (£10 a box set).. Component ordering (Mail Order).. And the hobby was about the hobby.

But now during their green age.. Yes I said the word

GW have out priced most new starters to the hobby. On three occasions I have introduced my friends to it, they have said yeah its great just its too costly. Though during the Golden Age an army of plastic miniatures was easy to achieve even at £10.

In fairness to GW, most other hobbies cost near enough the same amount of coin to start up.. For example:-
Fishing (Rod, Reel, Landing net, Hold Alls etc and then a Licence) £300
American Football (Helmet, Shoulder pads, etc) £280

Average 40k army £200 - £250
Average WFB army £300

Then over the years what happened, inflation.. yeah right!
Basic box sets go from £10 - (Cheap) £12 (Fair enough) - £15 (Valuable for money vs. other mini companies) - £18 (Just suck my Squig and call me Lucy) 80% rise over 2 years.. for sake


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Getting rid of my Mail Order, Yes it was just made for me.. really stuck the squig!

I started the hobby first as a painter not as a gamer.. so having the service of part ordering was great
Converting your minis any way your wanted. Now what actually made their company they got rid of.. WHAT A SET OF DONKEYS !

EEORE doesn't even come close to describing how I feel after my "new army" now looks exactly the same as the spoilt little rich kid next to me.

Again to be fair to GW they have brought out Bitz Packs.. Yeah were saved! Balls




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Staff Member Discount

Staff members would receive 50% of the price when buying it in the store

If they wanted staff could go on a "Lead Pick" basically walk around the vast trays of GW components and pick or scoop the amounts of miniatures they wanted. All this was done at Lead Weight, meaning that whatever it weighed on the scale it was priced against £35 per kilo.

I'll give you some non exaggerated examples
55 Metal Guardsmen including heavy weapon models
£30 Greater Daemon for £3-5

Plastics was based on 75p per sprue and at the time of release the new Land Raider worked out as £3 (6 sprues)

Though GW doesnt let staff members "Lead Pick" anymore because its the Green Age, they still get the 50%. Which is fair due to the pay rate they get.

Although I still play and enjoy their games, I hate GW with an unforgiving passion. I make it a practice to give as little money to them as possible and while I may buy the occasional codex from them (walking into a FLGS with a codex downloaded from a file sharing site might raise a few eyebrows after all) I never buy any miniatures unless they are second hand from Ebay and the like.
Others have outlined most of the gripes I have against GW, so outlining my reasons for my hatred would be repetative. However I will add to the discussion by correcting a point someone made.

Earlier someone claimed that back during 2nd ed. 40k that GW could do no wrong. This is simply incorrect. While they were certainly not nearly as bad back in those days, they still did unethical things. My two favorites are:
-Their releasing two major rules update books for Rogue Trader (Vehicle Manual and the Battle Manual) literally just a couple of months before the release of 2nd edition made all the RT material obsolete. The did a repeat performance of this stunt on a lesser level with the release of the 2nd ed. "Codex Assasins" shortly before the advent of 3rd ed.
-The way they cynically used the (mostly baseless) "lead scare" of the early '90s as an excuse to implement their first major price increase, and shamelessly lie about it at the same time. I've written several times here and elsewere about the details of the "lead scare", so I won't go into that baseless bugbear again. However at the height of the scare, GW anounced that as a service to their customers they would be now be producing all metal models in a new lead-free alloy and that blister prices would not be going up. When the new lead-free blisters hit the shelves soon after, they were indeed priced the same as the old ones, but the model count in said blisters was half that of the old ones! This 100% price increase remains GW's biggest price hike (despite the fact there is no real difference between the cost of casting in lead-based alloys and pewter based ones) , and just set the stage for all those that have come since. The way they out and out lied to everyone's face set the tone for the way they have dealt with their customers ever since.

TR
Being screwed over by GW since 1989...

edit: BTW, these two GW transgression are things that I've never seen even their most rabid of defenders/fanboys be able to sucessfully defend. The one time I brought these up to a current GW studio staffer over at that other high traffic GW game site he tried to brush it off by saying "I was not employed by GW at the time so I can't speak to that."

I definately agree it's too pricey, and although I live for GW artwork, new army books really annoy me, I wish they would reach a point where I can use my book for longer than a few months.

They also tried to sell me the new hardback fantasy rulebook, when we were talking about 40k.

The top ten

1. prices
2. codex chaos 4th edition
3. uneven, slow and irregular release schedule
4. blatant and manipulative sales techniques
5. white dwarf
6. codex blood angels 4th edition
7. 5th edition rules that nerfed eldar
8. making their sales assistents so pushy
9. making everything so bloody imperial-centric
10. taking away bitz ordering

I could go on, but you really don't want me to lol


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11. Telling me that classic Harlequins would not be removed from the classic and collectors range, three weeks before they were

Trench-Raider wrote:
-Their releasing two major rules update books for Rogue Trader (Vehicle Manual and the Battle Manual) literally just a couple of months before the release of 2nd edition made all the RT material obsolete.

Ooh that's the one that stopped me playing 40k for nearly 10 years! (still played Epic though )

They Stole my Puppy, Poisned my food and eat my Sanvich!!!

GW lead me to Dakka Dakka.

Thank you, GW.

Hey, they are good for something!

I love GW. I love thier models and I love their games. However I am not of the opinion that they can do no wrong. Their first main problem is the current state of thei retail philosophy. When I got and into the hobby and later on when I worked at on of their mall sites and then at a bunker the red shirt was a HOBBY SPECIALIST. These are the guys that taught me how to play and how to paint. And in return I spent stupid amounts of money. Later on as I worked there I tried to be like them. Always wanting to get people excited about the hobby. Most of the people at my store liked me because I was not pushy. But I still sold stuff. I got people excited about the hobby, not about spending money. Now as I look and see what is going it (specifically in my old stomping grounds....LA) makes me sick. The word from the regional managers mouth was that he wants people that can sell not people that can hobby. Why would I pay full retail price to go to GW store where the guys have no clue what they are talking about instead of going to an independent retailer and getting a discount? GW retail has lost its way.

Now as far as the cost........it is what it is. And the sad fact is that there most likely wont be an across the board price cut. I love the models and am willing to shell out the cash for them. It is an expensive hobby but no more than others. Hell I wish playing hockey was as cheap as GW stuff. And as far as the rules and codexes.....in no way are they perfect. My favorite army....the Dark Angels have a big turd of a codex in my opinion. But the last few 40k codexes to come out look legit. And lets face it no one is perfect. There are flaws and bugs in video games. All in all I love the hobby and love it as much as the first day I discovered it.

@Cato - They took away your lightning claws and gave you a pistol, sword and a funny hat. That's gotta hurt.

H.B.M.C. wrote:@Cato - They took away your lightning claws and gave you a pistol, sword and a funny hat. That's gotta hurt.

They also made me grow my mohawk out into some faggy hairstyle.......but hey it appears I am on the fast track to become chapter master. Suck it Agemman!

Samus666 wrote:The top ten

1. prices

Sorta inevitable, but Damn!

2. codex chaos 4th edition

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. uneven, slow and irregular release schedule

That we get awesome miniatures with crap rules is NOT compensation. (Chaos spawn and possessed CSM's)

4. blatant and manipulative sales techniques

3rd edition nerfing of characters bs!!!

5. white dwarf

I want the cardboard sections in the middle back!!!

6. codex blood angels 4th edition

At least the made a token effort there, more than Dark Eldar, Dark Angels, Necrons and Lost and the Damned got.

7. 5th edition rules that nerfed eldar

I have to disagree there, I get my Orks and Plague Marines slaughtered by Eldar on a regular basis.

8. making their sales assistents so pushy

Don't know about that, my FLGS staff is extremely cool

9. making everything so bloody imperial-centric

That's a natural progression

10. taking away bitz ordering

So I had no hand fething build fifteen fething Ork fething power fething claws

I could go on, but you really don't want me to lol

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11. Telling me that classic Harlequins would not be removed from the classic and collectors range, three weeks before they were

12: Getting rid of the Citadel Journal, fething over Armorcast, ceasing publications of Inferno, their comic book and the letters section in white dwarf. If they were an animal, I would put them out of their misery so they would stop spreading their disease through my world. I'll stop now, since I've run out of steam.

Bring back the 20-for $50 AUS regiment boxes. T_T

VC players need more Skeletons per box, dammit. And Empire, at that. Speaking of which...(

I don't go to GW stores very often, I prefer my FLGS but here is a story of what happened during my last visit:

I go in, have a look around. I'm looking for the GW hobby drill since my old broke and I haven't found cheaper alternatives.
I can't find it so I ask one of the staffers.

These are his exact words (translated from swedish):
- "Well, it seems we don't have that item in stock at the moment but we have Space Hulk."

WTF is all that comes to mind.

So, to answer the original poster: GW mistook me for a sucker.

/Grindah

Grindah wrote:I go in, have a look around. I'm looking for the GW hobby drill since my old broke and I haven't found cheaper alternatives.
I can't find it so I ask one of the staffers.

These are his exact words (translated from swedish):
- "Well, it seems we don't have that item in stock at the moment but we have Space Hulk."

If true (and I don´t have any reason to doubt Grindah) the way the staffer answered it´s a stupid way to lose clients. It´s like going to the hospital with a cancer and hear that they don´t have a doctor for that but that they have a two for one penis enlargements

M.

GW touched my little painted models inappropriately...