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don_mondo wrote:Rules support. All the models are nice, but without clear and concise rules, waht ya gonna do with all those pretty toys?

Very much true and hopefully what they'll do. The shallow pretense of "model company first, rules second" is ridiculous. Rules SELL the models. Proper and fun codices SELL models.

Better pricing wouldn't hurt either, as it would pull in newer players a lot faster and easier. Tell me what's better - one person that spends $1 000 for one army or ten people that spend $150 on... one army?

oni wrote:I want them to keep doing what they're doing. I think their on a good course right now.

What I'd like to 'wish' for (because that's what this thread is about) are:

1. A 40K scale Warlord Titan.
2. Bring back Epic 40,000.
3. A 40K scale Warlord Titan.
4. Stop doing gimmick item like the Citadel Paint Palette and the Transport Bags

What's wrong with them?
Funnily enough, I have got to page for and only been called 'git'. Why was I called a git anyway? Because I heard DoW 3 was going to Ensemble Studios?

Because Ensemble Studios shut down after Halo Wars...

Hehe, that would explain a lot. Never again will I trust 'eadbreaka. But he did tell me a long while ago.

Tim the Biovore wrote:

oni wrote:I want them to keep doing what they're doing. I think their on a good course right now.

What I'd like to 'wish' for (because that's what this thread is about) are:

1. A 40K scale Warlord Titan.
2. Bring back Epic 40,000.
3. A 40K scale Warlord Titan.
4. Stop doing gimmick item like the Citadel Paint Palette and the Transport Bags

What's wrong with them?

They're a gimmick item. In marketing language, a gimmick is a quirky feature that distinguishes a product or service without adding any obvious function or value. Thus, a gimmick sells solely on the basis of distinctiveness and may not appeal to the more savvy or shrewd customer. Translation... The bags are simple luggage bags with shiny squad markings stitched onto them. Personally, I'd rather take the money and put it towards a Battle Foam bag.

One word: Sabol.

oni wrote:

Tim the Biovore wrote:

oni wrote:I want them to keep doing what they're doing. I think their on a good course right now.

What I'd like to 'wish' for (because that's what this thread is about) are:

1. A 40K scale Warlord Titan.
2. Bring back Epic 40,000.
3. A 40K scale Warlord Titan.
4. Stop doing gimmick item like the Citadel Paint Palette and the Transport Bags

What's wrong with them?

They're a gimmick item. In marketing language, a gimmick is a quirky feature that distinguishes a product or service without adding any obvious function or value. Thus, a gimmick sells solely on the basis of distinctiveness and may not appeal to the more savvy or shrewd customer. Translation... The bags are simple luggage bags with shiny squad markings stitched onto them. Personally, I'd rather take the money and put it towards a Battle Foam bag.

Are they now? And there was me thinking they were designed with the GW Carry Cases in mind, for dimensions and that.

I thought a Gimmick was something used to push sales, without adding any real value to the object being sold? Like a free gift in your Cereal?

oni wrote:

Tim the Biovore wrote:

oni wrote:I want them to keep doing what they're doing. I think their on a good course right now.

What I'd like to 'wish' for (because that's what this thread is about) are:

1. A 40K scale Warlord Titan.
2. Bring back Epic 40,000.
3. A 40K scale Warlord Titan.
4. Stop doing gimmick item like the Citadel Paint Palette and the Transport Bags

What's wrong with them?

They're a gimmick item. In marketing language, a gimmick is a quirky feature that distinguishes a product or service without adding any obvious function or value. Thus, a gimmick sells solely on the basis of distinctiveness and may not appeal to the more savvy or shrewd customer. Translation... The bags are simple luggage bags with shiny squad markings stitched onto them. Personally, I'd rather take the money and put it towards a Battle Foam bag.

But have you tried carrying two army figure cases by hand?

bobspoons wrote:How about completely free downloads of rules/codexes so that we then concentrate money on models/paints etc? Sounds like a daft idea where they would loose out on money but there are quite a few other minins game sout there that do this, not to mention the GW specialist games.

The problem is then they're even further from being a money-maker than they are now, and I think quality would suffer... Which can't be good.

The FoW guys do a lot of free mini-dexes I notice. That's good to see. Thankfully they seem a bit more mature about it.

Balance wrote:

bobspoons wrote:How about completely free downloads of rules/codexes so that we then concentrate money on models/paints etc? Sounds like a daft idea where they would loose out on money but there are quite a few other minins game sout there that do this, not to mention the GW specialist games.

The problem is then they're even further from being a money-maker than they are now, and I think quality would suffer... Which can't be good.

The FoW guys do a lot of free mini-dexes I notice. That's good to see. Thankfully they seem a bit more mature about it.

Not sure what you mean by even further from being a money-maker

Although I accept a lot of cash needs to go into R&D as well as artistic aspects of GW products, its still widely accepted that the general product is still overpriced so I wouldnt honestly say they start from a stance of being far from money-maker, I think they are very much money-maker already, though thats only my opinion.

I liked the good old days where rules complete were about £30 for say three books. Sadly now, complete rules run to so many costly volumes. Makes it difficult if you want to keep collecting rules as well as buy armies.

bobspoons wrote:

Balance wrote:

bobspoons wrote:How about completely free downloads of rules/codexes so that we then concentrate money on models/paints etc? Sounds like a daft idea where they would loose out on money but there are quite a few other minins game sout there that do this, not to mention the GW specialist games.

The problem is then they're even further from being a money-maker than they are now, and I think quality would suffer... Which can't be good.

The FoW guys do a lot of free mini-dexes I notice. That's good to see. Thankfully they seem a bit more mature about it.

Not sure what you mean by even further from being a money-maker

Although I accept a lot of cash needs to go into R&D as well as artistic aspects of GW products, its still widely accepted that the general product is still overpriced so I wouldnt honestly say they start from a stance of being far from money-maker, I think they are very much money-maker already, though thats only my opinion.

I liked the good old days where rules complete were about £30 for say three books. Sadly now, complete rules run to so many costly volumes. Makes it difficult if you want to keep collecting rules as well as buy armies.

I'm honestly not sure. They're kind of pricey, sure, but keep in mind that print runs for gaming stuff tend to be very low. TSR/WotC used to do the most, and they're having problems, too. It's one of the reasons textbooks are so expensive, too.

I'd guess Codex production probably about breaks even. The Codices are, after all, there to give people a reason to buy models, as not many people would buy big blocks of mdoels if there weren't rules for time.So Codex costs can be easily justified to the company as they're essentially a form of advertising.

A tighter and more balanced rules system. Especially for fantasy.

Looking at some computer games (which i guess are the main competitor for wargames) such as World of Warcraft.. there is a balance patch at least every 2 months to address 'glaring issues'. Even though they don't always get it exactly right, Blizzard does actively work towards a more balanced game.
IMO Games workshop should errata rules quarterly, possibly accompanied with a small re-release (ie one squad) for every army. Major updates can be done as they are currently, but clarifying FAQ's and changing the BGB appropriately doesn't need to be on a 5 year cycle.

Also: Greatcoat plastic guard.

Tim the Biovore wrote:.......what do we want GW to do? I don't want sarcasm, unless necessary.....

I want them to give a damn.

Textbooks are a bad example, print runs are kept artificially low on textbooks. I work as a librarian for a college and have seen the back end numbers some of the book publishers put out. print runs of 40 and 50 thousand textbooks when my college alone has an enrollment of 22 thousand. they distribute through closed networks of wholesalers to insure a single book is resold multiple times and they keep making a profit even with high pricing.

Games Workshop has some price gouging going on but nothing that bad. I will say I agree with you codices need redesigned. Personally a published balancing system would go a long way to get me to stop bitching. I don’t feel GW is bothering making every army tournament playable, I don’t even believe they have a system to balance anymore. Every unit is so uniquely crafted that balance isn’t visable and older armies that haven’t been updated in the past 3 months are built with completely different rules than their precursors. And I really mean 3 months because looking at SW vs SM the balance is off between the two let alone going back to Eldar or the long neglected armies.

Blizzard dedicates lots of man hours on the complaints they get, GW has two hamsters fielding phone calls in their complaint department...

Lower Prices




aaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnddd a rule thats lets CSM automatically dominate if they wish

Tim the Biovore wrote:But have you tried carrying two army figure cases by hand?

I've carried 4. Of the double-sized ones. It's not hard. And even if it was hard, you make two trips - you don't by a stupid-huge-price bag to put them in.

Or you just buy a Sabol case, carry three times as much as a single GW case, and they're easy to carry. Or Battlefoam.

HolyCause wrote:

don_mondo wrote:Rules support. All the models are nice, but without clear and concise rules, waht ya gonna do with all those pretty toys?

Very much true and hopefully what they'll do. The shallow pretense of "model company first, rules second" is ridiculous. Rules SELL the models. Proper and fun codices SELL models.

Also, if it's all about the models then why wait until a codex release to sell the models? The models will sell no matter when you release them since the rules aren't what sell the models, right?

It's all bs, it's an excuse so GW doesn't have to try.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Tim the Biovore wrote:But have you tried carrying two army figure cases by hand?

I've carried 4. Of the double-sized ones. It's not hard. And even if it was hard, you make two trips - you don't by a stupid-huge-price bag to put them in.

Or you just buy a Sabol case, carry three times as much as a single GW case, and they're easy to carry. Or Battlefoam.

Well, you showed me.

Personally I would be very happy for plastic Killa Kans. Im pretty scared to buy the metal ones after reading so much about problems with assembling them. But I love their visage so much!

1. I'd like a new Daemonhunters codex because I love the GK termie models and Kasrkin stormtroopers.

2. Storm troopers in plastic

3. AdMech codex & models

4. An upgrade sprue like the Black Templars so that I can build a 30K Horus Heresy army.

5. PreHeresy Codex that covers both Loyalists & Traitors... I guess that would make it Mid-Heresy. Something like the Eye of Terror codex.

6. A major progression in the fluff... what's up with Cypher, and all the other myriad loose ends that are so engaging, but we never see them in the new codices anymore.

Im going to put in another vote for a better mail-order coverage of older out-of-print models.

I know a good number of the moulds may be lost or damaged but GW did really well with this one for so many years and then the stock was suddenly massively cut back almost overnight.
I dont think that all the moulds could have suddenly been damaged all at once (or was ther a fire?) so assume its to keep interest in the new product.

But some of us still want old stuff to fit into old rules systems or for conversions.

Wanna get some oop stuff (Ebay often charges more than GW actually do)

Yeah, more damn PRIDE in their earlier work would be nice. They had great stuff in the past. It would be right if they showed us how good it was and how/why they kept improving their products.

It's like... GW is just the avarage adult, ashamed of what he/she did in the eighties/nineties.

and what I truly want from GW is a copy of the 1st or 3d edition WFB rules for free...

And overall, I agree with the Kaiser Chiefs:

"Oh, everything is avarage nowadays
Everything is avarage nowaday-ays"

Herohammernostalgia wrote:
and what I truly want from GW is a copy of the 1st or 3d edition WFB rules for free...
quote]

BOBSPOONS:
Oh I have to say (thread deviation sorry) 3rd was where I picked up the hobby, I love that hardback book was a wonderful read. I got my copy of 1st edition from a wargames fair and was only about £8 so not particularly an expensive collectors item (though at the time ebay was asking £50) although a few years back now.


Another thing I would like from GW would be a decent long-term plan to show upcoming projects and products, even if only preliminary and at concept stage. Its always a bit of a cringer when you pay quite a bit of cash out for a unit of metal models from blisters, only to then see a larger number of plastic models for cheaper price a few months later (I preffer metal models but cost is often a factor).

Just knowing whats coming up ahead for a long time period would be great for planning spending/purchasing

I'd just like for GW to care about it's customer base. After all, we are the ones that keep them in business. Myself, I have personally boycotted buying any GW products over the last 4 years or so. No minis, no books, no paint.... nothing. Has this affected their business, no. One person won't. But, I do have the satisfaction that I have not supported them with my $$ if they aren't going to care about us.

I am just now beginning to build a 40K army again. Why?... because in my area, that's pretty much what's played. Now, to understand the gaming community in my area, I'll explain. I live in Jacksonville, NC, which is also home to Camp Le Jeune, one of, if not the largest Marine Corps. bases in the U.S. And we all know how the military loves to blow stuff up and shoot things, so, naturally 40K is the dominant game. Most won't even glance at any other game system at all. So in order to fully enjoy the hobby, I have to cave in.

Sure we had a decent following for PP games in my area for awhile, but, most of them have either moved(due to getting out of the service, or being deployed), or quit gaming entirely for whatever reasons they have going on in their lives. Now, it's all I can do to get anyone to bring in their Warmachine/Hordes armies once every couple of months. Even though, PP actively supports their fanbase a far cry better than GW does. For example, they put the MKII beta rules on their website for free download, so that the public could not only see what direction they were taking with the game,rules wise, but, also I'm wagering, because they know that public play testing will give them more feedback than the "closed" play testing method, considering that no closed play testing group will ever encounter every possible bug that might exist in a game system.

As far as what I'd like from GW product wise:
-how about plastic IG for the other regiments...Tallarn especially.
-definitely lower prices
-a well thought out, balanced game system, where every army is on equal footing
-more than universal special rules(example...3rd Ed. Blood Angels codex introduced the FNP special rule, now, everybody and their brother has it...) Surely you guys can come up with more than a few rules that are given to every army in some form or another.

That's all I can think of for now, but, I'm sure I'll come up with something else later on.

Lord Alaric wrote:

As far as what I'd like from GW product wise:
-how about plastic IG for the other regiments...Tallarn especially.
-definitely lower prices
-a well thought out, balanced game system, where every army is on equal footing
-more than universal special rules(example...3rd Ed. Blood Angels codex introduced the FNP special rule, now, everybody and their brother has it...) Surely you guys can come up with more than a few rules that are given to every army in some form or another.
.

I'm not a 40k player, but I did read a lot about it (dakka teaches me to), as for the USR: Fleet of foot used to be Eldar only, and then Tyranid got fleet of claw, that was quite fitting. Now everyone has it! Maybe, if GW wants their "running" rule back, they should bring back the movement characteristic and/or the "reserve move" rule.

as for a balanced game system, GW games are balanced, untill you start using codices and army books

A reasonable request would be a revision of every codex when a new rule book is being published. Now I don't mean all new codexs. Just go back and update all the verbs and remove things that no longer apply. That way your not relying on FAQs to rule how rules work with your old codexs. I am sure a " 4th Edition (codex name) Revised " Would have been a welcome sight when the 5th edition rule book came out.

I know i tossed out wants earlier but consistantly seeing the term "Balanced system" made me want to jumb back into the deep end. GW can NEVER balance their game with their current release model, every codex is written and play tested by different in house groups and each codex is made to one up the last codex release. there seems to be no over arching concept of how things fit together. I liked how 3rd edition had the basic stats of all the units in the core book, it may have been an illusion but it made the system feel like their concern was playing the game not selling books. I'd personally like to feel like my army has a place in the universe not as the super end all army but just has something it does well that isn't handed out to other armies. back in the day I remember SM termies could stand up to anything and ORK's had lots of dirt cheep vehicles, now SM termies die fast but we also get cheep dedicated transports and ork megaarmor is like water and the vehicles are pricier. I guess what I'm trying to say is Blance can come from every army being the same which is how GW seems to be leaning or it can come from armies fitting a slot so that collectively they all equal out in the big picture. I don't think GW's big picture is the same as ours is all...

GW's big picture can be summed up in a few words:

"Power" = Profit

I have experienced it since 5th edition, especially with other kids my age then, a new Army comes out and there will always be some fellows with the same penchant for one-upmanship as GW, now claiming all other armies as gak and hailing the newly released race as the most powerfull thing ever (untill the next one is released)... However, there were not a lot of new army books for 5th. 6 new books for an entire edition, 2 updates (Chaos and High Elves) and 4 new ones (VC, DoW, Lizardmen and Bretonnia). Now, these six moderately unhinged the game in favour of powergaming and One-upmanship. I almost believe the Dogs of War were GW's balance-fix at the time:

"Do your warmachines always get swarmed by harpies, eagles and other flying beasts?
Do those Bretonnians always smash trough your lines like they aren't even there?
Are you that Champion of Khorne who always get's shot to pieces by those Lizardmen, Dwarf and Empire missile troops?
Fret no more,
here are:
THE DOGS OF WAR!
With the Birdmen of Catrazza to counter any harpy or eagle,
The Alcatani Fellowship, cheap pikes to blunt any Bretonnian charge, and
The Marksmen of Miragliano and the Galloper Gun to let Chaos also experience the joy of the shooting phase.
If you have the coin
They Join!
Fill that hole in your battle-line with the hole in your hand
DOGS OF WAR
Game balance for hire"

I want hookers and blow and guns from GW.

1. More playable rules

2. More Faqs, update the rules and questions

3. Establish a tournament scene

4. Establish a national and worldwide ranking system