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I find that some veterans nights turn into power gaming nights as well

YMMV

malfred wrote:I find that some veterans nights turn into power gaming nights as well

Like that's a bad thing.

Nah, if you want to seriously playtest a game, you need powergamers more than any other type of player, because it's the powergamers who will find the exploits. When your powergamers are happily trying out different builds every game, rather than fixating immediately on the 1 or 2 optimal builds in each codex, you know your codex is balanced. When your powergamers are no longer saying "this unit is the only viable Heavy Support choice in the codex", you know your codex is balanced. Till then -- more playtesting, please! Preferably by powergamers.

Thing is, even if you are predominantly a casual, social gamer, wouldn't you rather that the game was balanced in the 1st place? A balanced game is better for social play AND for competitive play.

Ian Sturrock wrote:Thing is, even if you are predominantly a casual, social gamer, wouldn't you rather that the game was balanced in the 1st place? A balanced game is better for social play AND for competitive play.

QFT. That is the crux of the dilemma, isn't it?

HI all.
I agree the end result should be a well defined ,comprehensive rule set, that delivers maximum gameplay with the minimum amount of rules, with provable levels of imballance.

But just getting GW to recognise game play as a proirity , is the first step.
If they can not deal in 'sensible rules writing ', what chance have they got of achiving provable levels of ballance?

Currently 40k has more exceptions than rules.
Eg
Basic movement rules.(pgs11 to 14).
Exceptions for unit types.(pgs51 to 55)
Exceptions for moving in the SHOOTING Phase!(Pg 16)
Exceptions for vehicle movement rules (pgs57-63,64-70 to 73,)
Exceptions for USRs(pgs 75,76.)

Compared to the movement rules of other games....
Movement.
All units have a movement value , which is the distance they may move up to when taking a movement action.
How the units move,legs,(L) wheels,(W) tracks,(T) hover, (H) etc,effects how the units interact with terrain.
Special movement like Jump Jets (J)and amphibiuos(A) effect how units move through/over different types of terrain.
Refer to terrain table for details.

Terain type. L /W /T /H
roads. +1/+2/+2/-
open ground -/-/-/-
scrub/rubble -1/-2/-/-
Lt woods. -1/-2/-1/-2
hvywoods- jungle -2/I/I/I
buildings -1/I/I/I
Swamp I/I/I/-
Water features. I/I/I-
- = no effect on movement.+/- 1 or 2 =modify M value by this amount.I= impassible.

Amphibiuos (A) ignores movement restrictions for swamp and water features.
Jump jets (J) can clear up to 8" of flat terrain , or up to 4 height levels. (Deduct 2" for each hieght level, from the lenght of 'jump'.)

1-2 pages of straight forward rules!!!!


TTFN
Lanrak.

Blarglord wrote:A system for creating IC's and new unit's. Some way to be able to make your own without being overpowered and can go with conversions.

Just out of curiosity, what makes this idea different from the system of taking a base 'hero' character and adding wargear? In the end, you still end up with a character with a set of special abilities. Sure, it'd be nice to add some wargear or maybe just 'skills' to allow stuff like "Takes bikes/roughriders as troops" but a lot of the older 3rd/4th edition codices had wargear to bump stats, add special attacks, etc.

I just want some new catachans, just that.

Cheap Minis!!!!

New Catachans

Renegade IG

Legion Codex

Dump Lotr (Even fantasy I dont care bout that either)

Playtest With WAAC gamers.. not fluffmongers

Dark Eldar.. nah that would be too much.,

@ shaman:

Yes! please,
possibly,
yes! please,
yes! please,
no!,
yes! please,
of course it would.

A new PC-game liscense for WFB to the right company. Shadow of the Horned rat and Dark Omen were awesome, DoW is excellent... Mark of Chaos is a gargantuan disappointment compared to other contemporary games. Too simplistic, too linear, loading screens with their own loading screens (I once went out for groceries for about half an hour while waiting for the game to load... when I got back it took ANOTHER HALF HOUR!)... Rome Total War ran pretty fine on my system, MoC took ages of waiting for a 10 minute skirmish.

DoW 3 has been given to Ensemble Studios apparently.

Rules support. All the models are nice, but without clear and concise rules, waht ya gonna do with all those pretty toys?

Yay wish list time!

Updated armies for each edition to reflect the new rules.

Armies that have their own personalities, not "Take this special character, army gets this USR from the main rule book" crap.

Bring the prices down a little bit.

Chapter Approved. This not only made WD worth buying, but kept armies fresh, new, and updated. Think of it as DLC, but in rule form.

Xeno Hunters and AdMech.

Realistic pricing, and tighter rules.

Interestingly enough, I emailed GW customer service a few days ago voicing some of the concerns that have been expressed here and just received a response. Basically, the gist of the e-mail was for me to sod off (j/k). Apparently much of what people suspect is true; nids are next followed by blood angels but with a hint of something Tau'ish in the near future. Bleah.

Warmachine's looking better and better. I wish more people played it in my area, I like the whole corporate approach with open "beta" testing of the rules and everything being released all at once.

I'd like it i they offered their back catalogs again, but that's gone the way of penny pinching.

I want them to release all new codices when a new edition comes out so everything is balanced to each other and up to date.
And better prices... seriously!

I'd blow more disposable income than I should if there were a GW in the Mid-West that's not the Chicago area...

How about completely free downloads of rules/codexes so that we then concentrate money on models/paints etc? Sounds like a daft idea where they would loose out on money but there are quite a few other minins game sout there that do this, not to mention the GW specialist games.

Honestly interested, why do folks want so many plastic kits? I find the detail less than metal models (though plastics getting better) if its because of the ease of conversion and the multi-positioning I would just ask for more metal poses. If its price, then hay Id love to go back to 1980s prices of 5x metal figures for £1.95 hehe!!

Id also ask for better mechanical ventilation in stores our hobby often gets a lot of folks in a small space getting very warm, quite a few of the local stores are pretty fragrant lol (waits for outrage) even when empty or quiet, which is a shame really.

I prefer plastics -- I think they're just as detailed as metal, and SO much more durable (I'd rather have plastic Grey Knights than my current group of mostly bendy-weaponed metal ones). I do a lot of conversion, and again, just in terms of the amount of time it takes to cut & file plastic as compared to metal, I much, much prefer plastic.

Edited to add -- I left a tray of plastic figures (5 Termies and a Dreadnought) outside, as I was about to spray them & wanted to ensure they hit the same temperature as their environment. The wind rose up, suddenly, and they blew off our deck and onto the concrete of the lower garden, about 10 ft. below! Damage? 4 termies completely undamaged; 1 icon broke off one termie (easily regluable); the Dread came away from its legs (again, easily fixed). Try doing that with metal! They wouldn't even be the same shape any more!

personally I'd like a bit more flexability in the codices and more hard and fast in the core game book. I suppose that would be...
More customizable units, not IC's here real units i have a dozen tactical marines with shotguns which my opponents throw tantrums over every time I try to feild (even with agreeing they are bolters before the match.)
Less exceptions to the rules, less of that "well this unit can do this because its an IC or from such and such army" if they are the same they should be comparable so my BA squads shouldn't be priced higher and get less stuff just because they are red with gold birds nailed to them.
Plastic everything, I have lots of cool metal bits and minis which are really shiny when I get them but I strangely like plastic better. I can deal with plastic a lot easier and it paints better. The sprues also lend themselves to more customization usually.
Plastic prices and generally lower prices all around, a freind of mine that works at Testors says plastic costs 1/3rd the price of metal to make, maybe its true or not but I do know that plastic is cheeper, and if oil costs are a problem the US has been using corn and soy based plastics in packaging and food stuffs for years try that. my fiancee picked up a SM battleforce with all its plastic goodness and I was amazed to notice that the per unit price was only about 20 cents lower than buying the individual boxes that make it up. Its plastic, its cheep make it cheep. GW is charging the same general price points for all their miniatures regardless of plastic or metal and that just seems screwy.

WHAT DO WE WANT? LOWER PRICES! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW!
WHAT DO WE WANT? XENO LOVE! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW!

Supporting the call for GW to realise we know the price difference in metal and plastic and stop trying to charge us the cost of metal on their plastics!

1) Revert the CSM Codex.

2) Bitz service.

3) Return of the missing armies (Squats, Genestealer Cult, Dogs of War, LatD)

4) A comprehensive rules overhaul. We have 1/3 of the rules in the main book, 1/3 of the rules scattered in the codexes, the last 1/3? no idea where it is. 1 Rulebook with everything -including- a comprehensive formula on how -everything- is pointed out. that way we can fill in our own holes ad everything is tested when the new rulebook is written.

5) Tell the WAAC Tournament crowd to go play Warmachine.

Ian Sturrock wrote:
Edited to add -- I left a tray of plastic figures (5 Termies and a Dreadnought) outside, as I was about to spray them & wanted to ensure they hit the same temperature as their environment. The wind rose up, suddenly, and they blew off our deck and onto the concrete of the lower garden, about 10 ft. below! Damage? 4 termies completely undamaged; 1 icon broke off one termie (easily regluable); the Dread came away from its legs (again, easily fixed). Try doing that with metal! They wouldn't even be the same shape any more!

Question is: was the wind strong enough to carry metal minis?

Plastic/metal, no matter. They all get paint on them in the end.

The wind might be strong enough to flip the tray...

A GW store near where I'm moving next year.

Oh, and plastic Greatcoat Guard.

ungulateman wrote:A GW store near where I'm moving next year.

Oh, and plastic Greatcoat Guard.

now i definatly want them to bring back the 'get a store near you' if only for you.

Tim the Biovore wrote:DoW 3 has been given to Ensemble Studios apparently.

I see what you did there git.

I want them to be completely honest up front and not lie that their games are good for tournaments. That's the only reason I got into it initially and I found out too late :p

I want them to keep doing what they're doing. I think their on a good course right now.

What I'd like to 'wish' for (because that's what this thread is about) are:

1. A 40K scale Warlord Titan.
2. Bring back Epic 40,000.
3. A 40K scale Warlord Titan.
4. Stop doing gimmick item like the Citadel Paint Palette and the Transport Bags