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They starved Tigers? "joins luna's crusade"

Oh crap, there's go's the sixth seal. Can we hold it together for a bit people, my "order" still hasn't come in.

Depends... will you share the loot?

ShumaGorath wrote:
What right does any nation have to actually exist? Nations are just governmental boundries. We don't chose what countries we are born into. Taiwan is a thorn in chinas side because Chang decided to flee to there with the remains of his forces and because taiwan is a breakaway province of china (and japan!).

Shuma, regardless of the argument over missile incidents, you're starting to come across as very high handed here. Luna appears to be patriotic to her nation, and to have sufficent reason to dislike the Chinese. If you started ragging on mattrm or albatross or myself for being patriotic, you'd get called out for it. You're starting to strike me here as having a go at Luna simply because you think you can get away with a cheap free shot.

On top of that, as someone actually from that region, I'm more inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to Chinese/Taiwanese relations, rather than relying on whatever the media may or may not have to say on the matter. I lived in Zimbabwe for a few years, and I know damn well the global media often doesn't have a clue what's really going on half the time.

Soladrin wrote:Depends... will you share the loot?

We'll split it. You can have Europe north of the Alps and West of the Oder.

I'll take the environs formerly known as New Spain and the Louisiana Territories, and Brazil of course.

ShumaGorath wrote:Why do you show allegiance to a flag over allegiance to the people that flag represents? When the path of least resistance seems more peaceful, prosperous, and easy why cling? China has 43 times the population of taiwan, thinks it owns it, has a military more than capable of simply walking in and taking it, and a level of economic control in the region sufficient to simply snuff the taiwanese economy out (not that it had many legs in a globalized world at this point anyway). So why bother? Chinese statehood would, at the very least, come with significant development money for taiwan.

I know this was not directed at me, but I absolutely hate the american people (I am an american). To me(and I do include myself in this category), we have all become a very lazy, uncaring, celebrity centered society where everyone turns a blind eye to anything that doesnt happen to them. Have you ever noticed that no one gives a damn about any desease until a celebrity/athlete dies from it, and then everyone pours money into it, but no one cares about Timmy Too-late who just died of the same desease down the street. We don't care about the facts unless they serve our causes anymore, either.

I hate the american people, but god help me if I say anything about the american flag/Ideals. I would give my dying breath to defend that flag, because I beleive in a free world, where if someone wants to give money to a cause because a celebrity dies, they can do it. A place where if people want to gourge themselves on a food eating contest, they can, even if they are living right next to some starving kid with only a loaf of bread to keep him going until next paycheck. A flag does not represent "A People", it represents "An Ideal". There is a big difference.

"The problem with the past of least resistance is that it seldom leads beyond your front door".

Imagine, if you will, what would have happened if George Washington and Co. had taken the path of least resistance two hundred years ago. "Americans" would be drinking tea and eating crumpets. We would not be the powerhouse we are today, and the reprocussions from that would have been immense. Europe would be speaking German and the Jews would be all dead. You go ahead and take the path of least resistance, but I, like my great great grandfather John Hancock, will not if thats what it takes to protect that flag.

/endrant


P.S. Tai food is simply AMAZING!

P.S.S. wierd, it made my post seem like shuma made it

P.S.S.S. ok, thats just frustrating

Kanluwen wrote:

Khornholio wrote:This is nothing new. The North Koreans butchered a bunch of guys in the DMZ with axes during the 60s. I can"t remember if the victims were ROK army or US army, but the North Koreans showed up in a truck and hacked a bunch of guys up.

US army that were clearing from an area that the NKs mislabelled as part of their turf, and not the actual DMZ.

The "Axe" incident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axe_Murder_Incident

2 Americans dead. I like the overwhelming show of force shortly thereafter when they went back and chopped the tree down; "operation paul bunyan".

I've been to the DMZ when I lived in Korea.

Slarg232 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Why do you show allegiance to a flag over allegiance to the people that flag represents? When the path of least resistance seems more peaceful, prosperous, and easy why cling? China has 43 times the population of taiwan, thinks it owns it, has a military more than capable of simply walking in and taking it, and a level of economic control in the region sufficient to simply snuff the taiwanese economy out (not that it had many legs in a globalized world at this point anyway). So why bother? Chinese statehood would, at the very least, come with significant development money for taiwan.

I know this was not directed at me, but I absolutely hate the american people (I am an american). To me(and I do include myself in this category), we have all become a very lazy, uncaring, celebrity centered society where everyone turns a blind eye to anything that doesnt happen to them. Have you ever noticed that no one gives a damn about any desease until a celebrity/athlete dies from it, and then everyone pours money into it, but no one cares about Timmy Too-late who just died of the same desease down the street. We don't care about the facts unless they serve our causes anymore, either.

I hate the american people, but god help me if I say anything about the american flag/Ideals. I would give my dying breath to defend that flag, because I beleive in a free world, where if someone wants to give money to a cause because a celebrity dies, they can do it. A place where if people want to gourge themselves on a food eating contest, they can, even if they are living right next to some starving kid with only a loaf of bread to keep him going until next paycheck. A flag does not represent "A People", it represents "An Ideal". There is a big difference.

"The problem with the past of least resistance is that it seldom leads beyond your front door".

Imagine, if you will, what would have happened if George Washington and Co. had taken the path of least resistance two hundred years ago. "Americans" would be drinking tea and eating crumpets. We would not be the powerhouse we are today, and the reprocussions from that would have been immense. Europe would be speaking German and the Jews would be all dead. You go ahead and take the path of least resistance, but I, like my great great grandfather John Hancock, will not if thats what it takes to protect that flag.

/endrant


P.S. Tai food is simply AMAZING!

P.S.S. wierd, it made my post seem like shuma made it

P.S.S.S. ok, thats just frustrating

I'd still be eating Tex Mex and would have a bad Spanish accent vs. a bad Texan accent.

Badgers!?! We don't need no stiking badgers!!

Frazzled wrote:
I'd still be eating Tex Mex and would have a bad Spanish accent vs. a bad Texan accent.

That'd be your right, though you have to promise me to keep a record of all the snappy combacks you and your friends came up with during that...... debate.


your sig, especially that last part, got a chuckle out of me, btw.

Dude that is hard core. Note to self don't tick off SK special forces dudes....ever.

In addition, a 64-man ROK special forces company accompanied them, armed with clubs and trained in Tae Kwon Do, supposedly without firearms. However, once they parked their trucks near the Bridge of No Return, they started throwing out the sandbags that lined the truck bottoms, and handing out M-16 rifles and M-79 grenade launchers that had been concealed below.[1] Several of the special forces men also had Claymore mines strapped to their chests with the firing mechanism in their hands, and were shouting at the North Koreans to cross the bridge.[10][11]

Shuma, regardless of the argument over missile incidents, you're starting to come across as very high handed here. Luna appears to be patriotic to her nation, and to have sufficent reason to dislike the Chinese. If you started ragging on mattrm or albatross or myself for being patriotic, you'd get called out for it. You're starting to strike me here as having a go at Luna simply because you think you can get away with a cheap free shot.

I rarely understand patriotism as a virtue. More often than not it's a character trait that exists beyond logic or forethought. Sometimes it leads to nice happy feelings and the courage to do good for a nation, but than thats relative and I'm sure a palestinian and isreali patriot both love their country just as much as one another while their killing eachothers children. Taiwanese patriotism is such a case, there is very little to be gained by taiwan being antagonistic towards china, nor at this point is there much reason to do much other than simply integrate economically and attempt to maintain democratic independence (as they are currently doing).

On top of that, as someone actually from that region, I'm more inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to Chinese/Taiwanese relations, rather than relying on whatever the media may or may not have to say on the matter. I lived in Zimbabwe for a few years, and I know damn well the global media often doesn't have a clue what's really going on half the time.

And when you claim that china has been firing missiles at zimbabwe for years I'll say you're just as misinformed.

I know this was not directed at me, but I absolutely hate the american people (I am an american). To me(and I do include myself in this category), we have all become a very lazy, uncaring, celebrity centered society where everyone turns a blind eye to anything that doesnt happen to them. Have you ever noticed that no one gives a damn about any desease until a celebrity/athlete dies from it, and then everyone pours money into it, but no one cares about Timmy Too-late who just died of the same desease down the street. We don't care about the facts unless they serve our causes anymore, either.

Thats the human condition. It's not like it's ever been much different anywhere else. We care about causes we are invested in, and humans love to worship heros and gossip about fools.

I hate the american people, but god help me if I say anything about the american flag/Ideals. I would give my dying breath to defend that flag, because I beleive in a free world, where if someone wants to give money to a cause because a celebrity dies, they can do it. A place where if people want to gourge themselves on a food eating contest, they can, even if they are living right next to some starving kid with only a loaf of bread to keep him going until next paycheck. A flag does not represent "A People", it represents "An Ideal". There is a big difference.

And yet you don't give your life to defend the people in offshore prisons, the people in the buildings we bomb, and the people in prison that we jailed. That Ideal is absolutely relative. No one jumped to the defense of blacks in the tuskeegee experiments until long after, and we had slaves for quite a long time here in this glorious nation of freedom.

"The problem with the past of least resistance is that it seldom leads beyond your front door".

It requires greater courage to preserve inner freedom, to move on in one's inward journey into new realms, than to stand defiantly for outer freedom. It is often easier to play the martyr, as it is to be rash in battle.

Imagine, if you will, what would have happened if George Washington and Co. had taken the path of least resistance two hundred years ago. "Americans" would be drinking tea and eating crumpets. We would not be the powerhouse we are today, and the reprocussions from that would have been immense. Europe would be speaking German and the Jews would be all dead. You go ahead and take the path of least resistance, but I, like my great great grandfather John Hancock, will not if thats what it takes to protect that flag.

And imagine if you will what might have happened to the native americans had they opted to integrate into european colonies and adopt a new American way of life. Not everything is so cut and dry. Now is it?

Frazzled wrote:Dude that is hard core. Note to self don't tick off SK special forces dudes....ever.

In addition, a 64-man ROK special forces company accompanied them, armed with clubs and trained in Tae Kwon Do, supposedly without firearms. However, once they parked their trucks near the Bridge of No Return, they started throwing out the sandbags that lined the truck bottoms, and handing out M-16 rifles and M-79 grenade launchers that had been concealed below.[1] Several of the special forces men also had Claymore mines strapped to their chests with the firing mechanism in their hands, and were shouting at the North Koreans to cross the bridge.[10][11]

Yeah, I've met the modern equivalent of those guys and they are about as hardcore as you can get. Watch the movie Silmido (http://www.mediacircus.net/silmido.html).

S. Korea supported the U.S. militarily during the Vietnam War and the Viet-Cong would kill themselves rather than be captured by ROK Marines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Korea_Marine_Corps

Badasses does not do them justice.

Respect.

Thats the human condition. It's not like it's ever been much different anywhere else. We care about causes we are invested in, and humans love to worship heros and gossip about fools.

There is a total differnece between heroes who save lives, and heroes who have to act like other heroes. People like Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp (as cool as he be), and John Travolta do NOT compare to people like Leonidas, Beowulf, and King Arthur. And before you say that those are myths, ALL myth is based in fact.

And yet you don't give your life to defend the people in offshore prisons, the people in the buildings we bomb, and the people in prison that we jailed. That Ideal is absolutely relative. No one jumped to the defense of blacks in the tuskeegee experiments until long after, and we had slaves for quite a long time here in this glorious nation of freedom.

Seriously? The people in offshore prisons? you mean the murderers, the rapists, the insane, and all the other people like that? Why the HELL would I defend a people to whom life has no value? As for the people WE bomb? Did you ever hear about 9-11? I have no sympathy for those we bomb. As for tuskeegee, I do not even know what that is, no comment. As for the black slaves, that was something I was not around to fight, and so can not fight for it. However, I would like to say (mostly because you said "Black slaves", instead of just "slaves") that it is NOT completely on white peoples shoulders about the black slaves, The early colonists got BLACK slaves by trading weapons and munitions to other BLACKS

"The problem with the past of least resistance is that it seldom leads beyond your front door".

It requires greater courage to preserve inner freedom, to move on in one's inward journey into new realms, than to stand defiantly for outer freedom. It is often easier to play the martyr, as it is to be rash in battle.

Well, someone has to be a coward, I guess it will be me.

And imagine if you will what might have happened to the native americans had they opted to integrate into european colonies and adopt a new American way of life. Not everything is so cut and dry. Now is it?

Then we wouldnt have people saying "This was my land, you can't touch it". The beauty of America is the melting pot, we assimilate cultures into our own. If someone wants to fight to avoid becoming a part of a larger culture, then they, and they ALONE must pay that price. Haveing said that, If I were in their shoes back then, I would have done the same thing. You can have my freedom, family, and possessions when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

Slarg232 wrote:

Thats the human condition. It's not like it's ever been much different anywhere else. We care about causes we are invested in, and humans love to worship heros and gossip about fools.

There is a total differnece between heroes who save lives, and heroes who have to act like other heroes. People like Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp (as cool as he be), and John Travolta do NOT compare to people like Leonidas, Beowulf, and King Arthur. And before you say that those are myths, ALL myth is based in fact.

And yet you don't give your life to defend the people in offshore prisons, the people in the buildings we bomb, and the people in prison that we jailed. That Ideal is absolutely relative. No one jumped to the defense of blacks in the tuskeegee experiments until long after, and we had slaves for quite a long time here in this glorious nation of freedom.

Seriously? The people in offshore prisons? you mean the murderers, the rapists, the insane, and all the other people like that? Why the HELL would I defend a people to whom life has no value? As for the people WE bomb? Did you ever hear about 9-11? I have no sympathy for those we bomb. As for tuskeegee, I do not even know what that is, no comment. As for the black slaves, that was something I was not around to fight, and so can not fight for it. However, I would like to say (mostly because you said "Black slaves", instead of just "slaves") that it is NOT completely on white peoples shoulders about the black slaves, The early colonists got BLACK slaves by trading weapons and munitions to other BLACKS

"The problem with the past of least resistance is that it seldom leads beyond your front door".

It requires greater courage to preserve inner freedom, to move on in one's inward journey into new realms, than to stand defiantly for outer freedom. It is often easier to play the martyr, as it is to be rash in battle.

Well, someone has to be a coward, I guess it will be me.

And imagine if you will what might have happened to the native americans had they opted to integrate into european colonies and adopt a new American way of life. Not everything is so cut and dry. Now is it?

Then we wouldnt have people saying "This was my land, you can't touch it". The beauty of America is the melting pot, we assimilate cultures into our own. If someone wants to fight to avoid becoming a part of a larger culture, then they, and they ALONE must pay that price. Haveing said that, If I were in their shoes back then, I would have done the same thing. You can have my freedom, family, and possessions when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

First, smooth move equating the mentally ill with murderers and rapists. Second, since the US uses 9/11 to justify hellholes like Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, does that mean that, using the same logic, the Vietnamese can claim the Hanoi Hilton was justified? Third, there are innocents in prison. No judicial system is flawless.
Fourth, the Tuskgee experiment was basically a forty year long study about the effects on syphillis on blacks. Doesn't sound so bad? The subjects had no choice, and even after treatments became available doctors were ordered not to treat them. Incidentally, that little stunt violated the Nuremburg Laws that the US had set up. Fifth, the system of slavery used in the US was different to older forms of slavery where one could escape their position. Sixth, at least you admit it.
Seventh, WE ARE BORG RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

There is a total differnece between heroes who save lives, and heroes who have to act like other heroes. People like Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp (as cool as he be), and John Travolta do NOT compare to people like Leonidas, Beowulf, and King Arthur. And before you say that those are myths, ALL myth is based in fact.

Beowulf likely didn't exist and killed a lot of people. Leonidas was likely a douche and killed a lot of people. King arthur.. Well you see where I'm going with this. Historical heroes are typically war heroes cast in a good light by their own kingdoms if they existed. Sparta was a hellhole that killed babies with institutionalized murder and slavery. We have few modern heroes because we've lost our belief in the immortal and in the honor of a clean kill.

eriously? The people in offshore prisons? you mean the murderers, the rapists, the insane, and all the other people like that? Why the HELL would I defend a people to whom life has no value?

Because a majority of the people in gitmo are released after having never been charged and a good percentage of the total population at any single time has been totally innocent. Look up the uighers for instance.

Did you ever hear about 9-11? I have no sympathy for those we bomb.

Yep. All those Iraqis that did 9/11.

As for tuskeegee, I do not even know what that is, no comment.

The U.S. government tested syphilis on blacks for years without telling them. Look it up.

As for the black slaves, that was something I was not around to fight, and so can not fight for it. However, I would like to say (mostly because you said "Black slaves", instead of just "slaves") that it is NOT completely on white peoples shoulders about the black slaves, The early colonists got BLACK slaves by trading weapons and munitions to other BLACKS

Who cares. Were talking about america, not moon country. America. Land of immutable freedoms guaranteed by our glorious forefathers.

Well, someone has to be a coward, I guess it will be me.

Good to know your willing to lay down your life for a cause you haven't thought out or actually understand.

Then we wouldnt have people saying "This was my land, you can't touch it". The beauty of America is the melting pot, we assimilate cultures into our own. If someone wants to fight to avoid becoming a part of a larger culture, then they, and they ALONE must pay that price. Haveing said that, If I were in their shoes back then, I would have done the same thing. You can have my freedom, family, and possessions when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

It's totally cool to kill them. They didn't want to be in the melting pot. If I was around back then I would have fought for my home to avoid the melting pot! YOU CAN HAVE MY FREEDOM WHEN YOU PRY IT FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!

What.

This thread= almost derailed. Thanks to Frazzled and agnosto for keeping up the Korea discussion.

So question for everyone: who do you all think would win in a fight, North Korea or the US/South Korea?

My money is on an initial North Korean victory, followed by stalemate and eventual collapse when their supplies run out and they lose the initiative.

Also, to all the gakkers bleating on about how freedom is so great: You're right. Freedom IS great. That's why I want freedom of speech. Freedom of religion. The right to bear arms (incidentally, since part of its intent was to keep the BIG BAD GUBBERMINT afraid, are you allowed tanks and personal nuclear devices? ). The freedom to cut medicines with glass and bleach. The right to own people as property. The right to shoot people I don't like. The freedom of the poor to feth off and die when live deals them a naff hand.

"Every man holds his property subject to the general right of the community to regulate its use to whatever degree the public welfare may require it." -Theodore Roosevelt

Corvus wrote:This thread= almost derailed. Thanks to Frazzled and agnosto for keeping up the Korea discussion.

So question for everyone: who do you all think would win in a fight, North Korea or the US/South Korea?

My money is on an initial North Korean victory, followed by stalemate and eventual collapse when their supplies run out and they lose the initiative.

You mean the thread that was started with a three day old news story that was incorrectly understood by the poster, and that has never been about reality? That thread? No one has discussed the actual events that occurred once in this thread outside of my posting of a more up to date news story that was immediately ignored.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Corvus wrote:This thread= almost derailed. Thanks to Frazzled and agnosto for keeping up the Korea discussion.

So question for everyone: who do you all think would win in a fight, North Korea or the US/South Korea?

My money is on an initial North Korean victory, followed by stalemate and eventual collapse when their supplies run out and they lose the initiative.

You mean the thread that was started with a three day old news story that was incorrectly understood by the poster, and that has never been about reality? That thread? No one has discussed the actual events that occurred once in this thread outside of my posting of a more up to date news story that was immediately ignored.

I was discussing Korea, which is a whole lot more on topic than this random philosophical debate that has sprung up. I know damn well that a South Korean ship exploding is not going to reignite the Korean War, North Korean mine or not. It's going to take a HELL of a lot more than that. I was joining in Frazzled and agnosto's discussion of Korean (north and south) military capabilities, because I would rather not get involved in a philosophical flame war. I know you love to debate/argue/etc, but trust me, that's not what I'm looking for, so leave me out of it.

Corvus wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Corvus wrote:This thread= almost derailed. Thanks to Frazzled and agnosto for keeping up the Korea discussion.

So question for everyone: who do you all think would win in a fight, North Korea or the US/South Korea?

My money is on an initial North Korean victory, followed by stalemate and eventual collapse when their supplies run out and they lose the initiative.

You mean the thread that was started with a three day old news story that was incorrectly understood by the poster, and that has never been about reality? That thread? No one has discussed the actual events that occurred once in this thread outside of my posting of a more up to date news story that was immediately ignored.

I was discussing Korea, which is a whole lot more on topic than this random philosophical debate that has sprung up. I know damn well that a South Korean ship exploding is not going to reignite the Korean War, North Korean mine or not. It's going to take a HELL of a lot more than that. I was joining in Frazzled and agnosto's discussion of Korean (north and south) military capabilities, because I would rather not get involved in a philosophical flame war. I know you love to debate/argue/etc, but trust me, that's not what I'm looking for, so leave me out of it.

I suppose it is tangentially more related than what we were discussing. In reference, north korea would sweep foreward, take south koreas capitol, then get driven slowly back as it would have to pillage for supplies, has no useful vehicular support, and has absolutely no air combat capability while the U.S. has by far the most powerful air force on the planet and by a good stretch the most powerful fleet as well. The north korean military is a joke, and only dangerous by virtue of proximity. It can crush by weight of numbers anything it's forces can jog too before the U.S. musters a counteroffensive.

Oh, and china would immediately invade them if they tried anything.

ShumaGorath wrote:

I suppose it is tangentially more related than what we were discussing. In reference, north korea would sweep foreward, take south koreas capitol, then get driven slowly back as it would have to pillage for supplies, has no useful vehicular support, and has absolutely no air combat capability while the U.S. has by far the most powerful air force on the planet and by a good stretch the most powerful fleet as well. The north korean military is a joke, and only dangerous by virtue of proximity. It can crush by weight of numbers anything it's forces can jog too before the U.S. musters a counteroffensive.

Oh, and china would immediately invade them if they tried anything.

That is a very good assessment. Their formidable landbased firepower is slowed by a lack of mobility and effective air support. It doesnt help that the rugged terrain in Korea prevents effective use of modern long ranged SAM systems (SA-5/SA-10, etc) so their ground forces would be completely at the mercy of US/South Korean airpower.

And yes, China can pretty much pull the plug on North Korea at any given moment (and then probably annex it)

Beowulf likely didn't exist and killed a lot of people. Leonidas was likely a douche and killed a lot of people. King arthur.. Well you see where I'm going with this. Historical heroes are typically war heroes cast in a good light by their own kingdoms if they existed. Sparta was a hellhole that killed babies with institutionalized murder and slavery. We have few modern heroes because we've lost our belief in the immortal and in the honor of a clean kill.

To the bold: are you fecking kidding? Beowulf, while he probably did not swim in a 7 day race, while killing a kraken in one hand while eating with the other, existed and was a great warrior, or a collection of warriors. Leonidas, of course Leonidas killed lots of people. He was a warrior. King Arthur...... seriously? He existed, because someone named Arthur DID exist, and he DID do great things. Did he converse with the Lady in the Lake? doubtfull.

George Washington killed alot of people, is he a bad man? Abraham lincoln killed the most people in U.S. History, considering he waged a war on his own country, and yet is still refered to as one of our greatest presidents. Leo, Arty, and Wulf are heroes because they stood up for what they beleived in. Not because of a body count.

btw, how can you not exist and kill lots of people? The logic just doesnt add up.....

Because a majority of the people in gitmo are released after having never been charged and a good percentage of the total population at any single time has been totally innocent. Look up the uighers for instance.

Then in that respect, we have failed. However, you should be more specific, because by "offshore prisons" I thought you meant a place like Alkatraz.

Yep. All those Iraqis that did 9/11.

Yep. Because Al-quada definatly includes all Iraqis.

The U.S. government tested syphilis on blacks for years without telling them. Look it up.

Will have to.

Who cares. Were talking about america, not moon country. America. Land of immutable freedoms guaranteed by our glorious forefathers.

Well, if that is the case, Oh how terrible America is! Enslaveing people is SOOOOOOOO much worse than the old Soviet Union Starving 10 million people to death in 1 year, or the German Concentration camps. What was I thinking?

When you look at our past compared to alot of the world's other super powers, we have a pretty clean record, considering. Having said that, yes, it was bad that there were slaves. But, I do not owe them anything. I was not enslaving them, I have not persecuted them, and I have not EVER looked at anyone and made a comment about their skin color (unless its a girl with a tan RAWR!), whereas you see all sorts of name calling, not in the past, but right now, what with it being "yo, Ni#@$, whats up?" "Youse just a cra$@%, man"

Good to know your willing to lay down your life for a cause you haven't thought out or actually understand.

Good to know your enjoying the rights I am willing to lay down my life to provide

It's totally cool to kill them. They didn't want to be in the melting pot. If I was around back then I would have fought for my home to avoid the melting pot! YOU CAN HAVE MY FREEDOM WHEN YOU PRY IT FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!

What

I said, that anytime any group of people goes against a stronger group of people, they have to be willing to accept the consequences of losing. If we, Americans, had lost, we would have all been hanged, and we knew it. We were, and are, willing to do die for it. If someone else, say China, were to invade, occupy, and defeat the U.S.A. We would be going against a stronger government, much like the natives did. I am saying, I would fight, just as the natives did, to keep my way of life alive. But I would not go begging and bitching for a handout every chance I got.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote:
I suppose it is tangentially more related than what we were discussing. In reference, north korea would sweep foreward, take south koreas capitol, then get driven slowly back as it would have to pillage for supplies, has no useful vehicular support, and has absolutely no air combat capability while the U.S. has by far the most powerful air force on the planet and by a good stretch the most powerful fleet as well. The north korean military is a joke, and only dangerous by virtue of proximity. It can crush by weight of numbers anything it's forces can jog too before the U.S. musters a counteroffensive.

Oh, and china would immediately invade them if they tried anything.

The problem with that scenario, is that 2 times in modern history has a "Joke Military" defeated "The most powerful XXX on the planet"

1: The Revolutionary War
2: The FIRST Korean War

and Btw, China is on N. Korea's side

"China hasnt fired missile at Taiwan for decades .....
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1953233,00.html
http://www.missilethreat.com/archives/id.49/subject_detail.asp

Yes like i said , lets ignore what the whole populace of Taiwan worry about every day ,
just because an internet forum jockey couldnt find a link acceptable to him.

Its not about patriotism , i can care less about flags and borders.
I was just rather insulted and found it ridiculous to be told something didnt happen because a guy didn't know the incidents happen.

Not to mention how often China fires missile into Taiwan Straight where the fishing areas are , like few times a year?
Oh or does it not count if it doesnt land onTaiwan the land itself?

Missile tests are not the same thing as shooting a missile at someone. If you hadn't already told us your age I would assume you were an eight year old with thinking that simplistic.

I was just rather insulted and found it ridiculous to be told something didnt happen because a guy didn't know the incidents happen.

Are you saying that I didn't know about missiles being test fired? or about missiles being shot at taiwan? One thing happened (The tests) the others didn't (missiles actually being shot at taiwan). I was well aware of one and the other is fake. Maybe you need to learn the difference between an aggressively postured weapons test over the ocean and a deadly and aggressive act of war against another nation.

Missiles are fired into isreal from palestine.
Missiles are fired at afghanistan from american jets.
Taiwan isn't at the bottom of the straight, and thats all the chinese missiles were hitting.

ShumaGorath wrote:Missile tests are not the same thing as shooting a missile at someone. If you hadn't already told us your age I would assume you were an eight year old with thinking that simplistic.

I was just rather insulted and found it ridiculous to be told something didnt happen because a guy didn't know the incidents happen.

Are you saying that I didn't know about missiles being test fired? or about missiles being shot at taiwan? One thing happened (The tests) the others didn't (missiles actually being shot at taiwan). I was well aware of one and the other is fake. Maybe you need to learn the difference between an aggressively postured weapons test over the ocean and a deadly and aggressive act of war against another nation.

Missiles are fired into isreal from palestine.
Missiles are fired at afghanistan from american jets.
Taiwan isn't at the bottom of the straight, and thats all the chinese missiles were hitting.

When you aim missiles towards a country , as "tests" you would have to be an 8 year old to think that its only a "test"

I would like to see china "test" its missile towards USA , and i want to see if you can relax on your chair telling the rest of the americans
"relax guys , its just a missile test , it hasnt actually landed on US soil yet , JUST EVERYWHERE AROUND USA , so no need to be worried "

LunaHound wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Missile tests are not the same thing as shooting a missile at someone. If you hadn't already told us your age I would assume you were an eight year old with thinking that simplistic.

I was just rather insulted and found it ridiculous to be told something didnt happen because a guy didn't know the incidents happen.

Are you saying that I didn't know about missiles being test fired? or about missiles being shot at taiwan? One thing happened (The tests) the others didn't (missiles actually being shot at taiwan). I was well aware of one and the other is fake. Maybe you need to learn the difference between an aggressively postured weapons test over the ocean and a deadly and aggressive act of war against another nation.

Missiles are fired into isreal from palestine.
Missiles are fired at afghanistan from american jets.
Taiwan isn't at the bottom of the straight, and thats all the chinese missiles were hitting.

When you aim missiles towards a country , as "tests" you would have to be an 8 year old to think that its only a "test"

I would like to see china "test" its missile towards USA , and i want to see if you can relax on your chair telling the rest of the americans
"relax guys , its just a missile test , it hasnt actually landed on US soil yet , JUST EVERYWHERE AROUND USA , so no need to be worried "

A Plate of Winsteak, Covered in Wingravy, with a side of Winfries

When you aim missiles towards a country , as "tests" you would have to be an 8 year old to think that its only a "test"

I would like to see china "test" its missile towards USA , and i want to see if you can relax on your chair telling the rest of the americans
"relax guys , its just a missile test , it hasnt actually landed on US soil yet , JUST EVERYWHERE AROUND USA , so no need to be worried "

See? You understand the idea of posturing. You just need to divorce it from the idea of an actual attack. Until you can do that you're not going to understand international politics very well.

A Plate of Winsteak, Covered in Wingravy, with a side of Winfries

The problem with that scenario, is that 2 times in modern history has a "Joke Military" defeated "The most powerful XXX on the planet"

1: The Revolutionary War
2: The FIRST Korean War

and Btw, China is on N. Korea's side

Just to cover both at once. China is not on north koreas side. China has been repeatedly condemning them about their nuclear programme, and the PRC absolutely hates north korea. What they don't want is north korea to collapse and have several million refugees spill over their border in the event of a total korean collapse or all out war. That would be very difficult for china to handle. As for the revolutionary and Korean wars, firstly we had allies in the revolutionary war and they had to fight it over a very large ocean before the invention of the motor. Secondly who won the first korean war exactly?

You should probably try and pay attention to reality before throwing your accolades around.

Shuma , i'll bet you anything you want , the moment China "tests" its missile at an general direction towards USA , the population will respond OMG NUKE CHINA NOW!!!!!

ShumaGorath wrote:

When you aim missiles towards a country , as "tests" you would have to be an 8 year old to think that its only a "test"

I would like to see china "test" its missile towards USA , and i want to see if you can relax on your chair telling the rest of the americans
"relax guys , its just a missile test , it hasnt actually landed on US soil yet , JUST EVERYWHERE AROUND USA , so no need to be worried "

See? You understand the idea of posturing. You just need to divorce it from the idea of an actual attack. Until you can do that you're not going to understand international politics very well.

Its a shame , that you relate an attack as a physical element.

What about attack on human rights and TW economy?
Or are death tolls the only thing that you can keep track of in your book?

I would still like to see if you can be naive enough to say if china shoots missle around USA it'll be considered posturing , and not elevate to a nuclear response from USA
but the difference you say? well TW isnt USA

This is why the world can never have peace , because of people like you.
Sitting on the chair saying nothing has happened because China hasnt hit any solid target yet.
While you ignore the population freaked out both mentally and our economy just drop and drop by each "test" missile fired.

You tell me i can understand the ideas? well its my turn to tell you.
There is more than one way to kill a Nation , China is doing a great job killing Taiwan atm.
Of course it doesnt count in your book because its not an actual declared war.

Its depressing really.

Wait , talking about 8 year olds , hasnt there been something similar in Star Wars Phantom Menace?
Like... the Driods have a giant blockade around naboo?

Also , i was abit confused to how it escalated into this , so i did the right thing and went back to double check what you posted:

ShumaGorath wrote:So they test fired short range missiles in the straight fifteen years ago. How does that mean they've been shooting missile at taiwan for years? Also while it's kind of you to post a link on basic taiwanese history, it's better to actually say something in reference to the question you were asked. That link didn't answer his question.

The whole thing was showing you it wasnt just 15 years ago.