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Nurgleboy77 wrote:<< NERD BONER!!!!>>

excuse me while i shudder in the corner...


welcome to the club



so i guess im the only one here who is exited for the resin ork kommando`s here?

Hell NO! I love that big Kopta full of Kommandos!

Going through this bit by bit...

Psyched that they are updating the books. A little irked that getting it first will often mean getting it wrong. My Imperial Armour Apocalypse book is sad.

SUPER happy about the next book being Eldar/Imperium. I want some freaking Eldar!

New epic sounds great, honestly. I hope it does well.

Love the DKoK and Elysians, but I'm also glad that they are taking a break from them. FW can do amazing stuff, and they need to spread the love.

Ad-mech is a must for FW. They're perfect for it. If it can accompany new Necrons, better still. I would buy all three Imperial Knights. those are my favorite titan class.

Tau stuff looks wicked, Phantom looks like it has great potential. I really hope they do Exodites!

Those Orks are mad. the Copter is okay... not ace, but cool. I love the Kommandos though, and I want some. the Grot tanks are also money. How big are they? Anyone really know?

Ork gun sprues are cool too.

Ravenguard are not my cup of tea, but certainly neat models. A little underwhelmed by he Vets, but I'm sure they're more versatile than they appear in the pictures.

Lastly, did anyone see the new Space Wolf Transfers? I'm buying some, but only need the Great Wolf ones. Anyone want to split the cost on others?

It's not "the next book" that'll be Eldar/Imperium.

It's the "next book after they finish this storyline, which is supposed to be at least two books".

Oh Feth, I'm going to be in such trouble once the bill comes in after Games Day.

Im not sure how I feel about the overall design of the Phantom Titan... I find the armor style veering too much towards 'guy in the suit', especially around the torso. Also, the revenant style heads are also disapointing atm A because they are obviously not particularly original and B again, they have a man in the suit aesthetic. I quite miss the original style phantom heads, which were very Eldar like yet retained a giant machine/robotic feel.

Apart from the head and torso being a little too anthropomorphic, the rest doesnt look too bad to me, although I agree with Luna that the shoulderpads also don't quite fit.

IMO, Navarro did a better job on his Phantom Titan commision job, modding and updating an epicast titan from back in the day -
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8288/torsobackak6.jpg&imgrefurl=http://s11.invisionfree.com/Work_In_Progress/ar/t7957.htm&usg=__ZyrsAeFAt-y45Gy9HusU6JIhyG4=&h=1000&w=600&sz=139&hl=en&start=7&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=1XaqLzZlRDIMDM:&tbnh=149&tbnw=89&prev=/images%3Fq%3Deldar%2Bphantom%2Btitan%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Dq5Q%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial%26tbs%3Disch:1

The "shoulderpads don't quite fit" because it's a polystyrene mock-up.

What part of polystyrene mockup's translates to 'we will definitely drastically change this therefore anyone who has an opinion is a jerk'?

My critique is obviously not of the final product, it is of the polystyrene mock-up. Besides, just because it is a mock-up doesn't mean it cannot look bad subjectively, even in concept stage, those design elements represent a route that could very well be continued right? In my professional experience with physical prototyping, at this stage of production you have already iterated many, many concept sketches, and you only start building physical mockups/cg when you have more or less cemented the direction. After all, sketching ideas takes a much smaller time/salary/material investment than modeling cg or scratch-building physical collateral.

It's just a few of us giving opinions for what was shown guys, no need to get defensive on Forgeworld's behalf or pre-empt our reactions because it's not final... if they didn't want people to have opinions logic follows they wouldn't show the model lol.

Your complaint is the "parts don't look right in their fit".

The fit won't be right because they're using polystyrene.

Do you see the dilemma or do you want to keep talking?

MajorTom11 wrote:What part of polystyrene mockup's translates to 'we will definitely drastically change this therefore anyone who has an opinion is a jerk'?

No idea

When I said don't quite fit I meant their design, not the quality of their installation. And again, just because it's a mockup doesn't automomatically mean it was put together badly or drastically mis-represents the designers intent lol.

Do you not see the dilemma of defending something from any and all negative impressions as if it was flawless based on the preposition that it is inherently and fundamentally flawed as a mockup? Do you think they put it on display because they think it looks like crap and has nothing to do with their intended design route? Come on man...

Kanluwen wrote:Your complaint is the "parts don't look right in their fit".

The fit won't be right because they're using polystyrene.

Do you see the dilemma or do you want to keep talking?

His meaning of "fit" has nothing to do with it physically "fitting"

Im 100% sure the "design doesnt fit" , is as in not suitable aesthetically.

Oops Ninja edited xD

Don't ya wish you weren't a polite Canadian sometimes Luna?

It's so odd what people get internet sensitive about... Truth is criticism is a massively important part of the design process, and any professional not only lives with it but invites it... I always find it odd when people take explained and subjectively based criticism as rude... it's not like we simply said 'It sucks and so do you' and left lol.

MajorTom11 wrote:Don't ya wish you weren't a polite Canadian sometimes Luna?

It's so odd what people get internet about... Truth is criticism is a massively important part of the design process, and any professional not only lives with it but invites it... I always find it odd when people take explained and subjectively based criticism as rude... it's not like we simply said 'It sucks and so do you' and left lol.

I understand what you mean , however

This forum is GW related , as in more people will openly allow praises to GW then opinions against what GW do.
Thus when an opinion arises , the minority will usually get hammered to the ground.

Without any consequences

MajorTom11 wrote:Don't ya wish you weren't a polite Canadian sometimes Luna?

It's so odd what people get internet sensitive about... Truth is criticism is a massively important part of the design process, and any professional not only lives with it but invites it... I always find it odd when people take explained and subjectively based criticism as rude... it's not like we simply said 'It sucks and so do you' and left lol.

Sorry, where did I get sensitive about anything?

Your complaint is a ridiculous one. You complain that the new Titan design is too "anthropomorphic". Compare the one in what you linked to the WIP shot.

The ONLY difference(outside of the work that Navarro did) is the heads.

Shame, I'm not hammered in the ground type

Besides, Kanluwen is welcome to debate the merits of mock-up etiquette and the merits of strategic development and design with me if he wants to, I've got a little experience in that kind of thing

Kanluwen wrote:Your complaint is the "parts don't look right in their fit".

The fit won't be right because they're using polystyrene.

Do you see the dilemma or do you want to keep talking?

I made a similar comment that the shoulderpads didn't work with the rest of the model. From a design standpoint, the shoulderpads are easily the weakest visual element of the model. The head is also quite poor, but should be much easier to fix.

MajorTom was talking about aesthetics and style, which has absolutely nothing to do with using polystyrene vs resin.

IMO, you ought to step off, because you're going at this all wrong...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Your complaint is the "parts don't look right in their fit".

The fit won't be right because they're using polystyrene.

Do you see the dilemma or do you want to keep talking?

I made a similar comment that the shoulderpads didn't work with the rest of the model. From a design standpoint, the shoulderpads are easily the weakest visual element of the model. The head is also quite poor, but should be much easier to fix.

MajorTom was talking about aesthetics and style, which has absolutely nothing to do with using polystyrene vs resin.

IMO, you ought to step off, because you're going at this all wrong...

What exactly, do you see as making them weak John?

What would you do to change them or make them more in line with the rest of the model?

They're shoulderpads. There's not much that really can be done with them.

Plus, it's entirely likely that the same sculptor is planning on doing a detailing set for that space and the torso to make it more intricate.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

MajorTom11 wrote:Shame, I'm not hammered in the ground type

Besides, Kanluwen is welcome to debate the merits of mock-up etiquette and the merits of strategic development and design with me if he wants to, I've got a little experience in that kind of thing

By the by:

Feel free to actually make criticisms that make sense. Seriously. But don't resort to the "Well, I don't like suchandsuchpart of the model--and if you do like it, you're obviously eSensitive and a company lapdog!" garbage.

Well Tom , and John , im going to list you what i think would make it look better ,
and you tell me if you agree or not.

I wont get into the technical details to why i point them out just yet.

1) The shoulder pad is abit too big

2) The shoulder pad is indeed droopy

3) The pelvic is too wide , the legs are too wide apart

4) The D cannon ( right arm ) is too long

Damn it stop arguing and reply to ^ already -_-

Kanluwen wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:Don't ya wish you weren't a polite Canadian sometimes Luna?

It's so odd what people get internet sensitive about... Truth is criticism is a massively important part of the design process, and any professional not only lives with it but invites it... I always find it odd when people take explained and subjectively based criticism as rude... it's not like we simply said 'It sucks and so do you' and left lol.

Sorry, where did I get sensitive about anything?

Your complaint is a ridiculous one. You complain that the new Titan design is too "anthropomorphic". Compare the one in what you linked to the WIP shot.

The ONLY difference(outside of the work that Navarro did) is the heads.

Your arguements are literally pointless Kan, the new one has pecs and ribs/ab like areas, the other one has lobstered plate. The shoulders on one are indented quarter spheres, the other has multicurved, scooped and fluted pads. And that's just the torso. Nevermind the arms, hips, back vanes, legs, feet and general proportions.

Where did you get sensitive? You defend it like you built it like it's a picture of your kids, and better yet, you defend where no defense is needed. If I don't like those elements much I don't like them, and frankly it's none of your damn business to inform me whether or not I am allowed to have that opinion. Especially since your 'rebutals' are factually incorrect, overly aggressive and in my humble opinion, childish. But by all means, keep typing and hijack this thread from people looking to have open discussions. I won't be addressing you directly again, I will do something more productive like argue politics with a squirrel or paint my toes goblin green.

Commander Endova wrote:...my favorite new thing has to be the Ork Kopter. Incredible.

I saw a pic of it without the kommands and was struck how it connected visually with the Dark Eldar raider. :/

LunaHound wrote:Well Tom , and John , im going to list you what i think would make it look better ,
and you tell me if you agree or not.

I wont get into the technical details to why i point them out just yet.

1) The shoulder pad is abit too big

2) The shoulder pad is indeed droopy

3) The pelvic is too wide , the legs are too wide apart

4) The D cannon ( right arm ) is too long

Damn it stop arguing and reply to ^ already -_-

lol, yes back OT

1/2) I'm not sure its the size of them so much as the flow and design of them. The diagonally downwards direction of the pads doesn't sit too well with me, but they are not hideous or anything, I just prefer the spherical pad style of the previous generation. Frankly they also don't fit with the current Wraithlord or Revenant style pads either, it sticks out to me. I prefer more geometric shapes for the Eldar. Usually they go for connical, spherical of cylindrical shapes for eldar, so this sillouette is out of the ordinary.

3) I don't think the pelvis is too wide, I think it looks off because the torso is too short and the anthropomorphized musculature'ish armor give the impression of wearing his belt under the ribs. Does that make sense?

4) Not bothered with that one, I dont mind the lance like look, and there may be more bits added to it to bulk it out a bit and make it look necessarily long.

on to better news, those grot tanks and stompa kits are awesome lol! Did anyone manage to snag one of those runtbots???

MajorTom11 wrote:
lol, yes back OT

1/2) I'm not sure its the size of them so much as the flow and design of them. The diagonally downwards direction of the pads doesn't sit too well with me, but they are not hideous or anything, I just prefer the spherical pad style of the previous generation. Frankly they also don't fit with the current Wraithlord or Revenant style pads either, it sticks out to me. I prefer more geometric shapes for the Eldar. Usually they go for connical, spherical of cylindrical shapes for eldar, so this sillouette is out of the ordinary.

3) I don't think the pelvis is too wide, I think it looks off because the torso is too short and the anthropomorphized musculature'ish armor give the impression of wearing his belt under the ribs. Does that make sense?

4) Not bothered with that one, I dont mind the lance like look, and there may be more bits added to it to bulk it out a bit and make it look necessarily long.

on to better news, those grot tanks and stompa kits are awesome lol! Did anyone manage to snag one of those runtbots???

Ok , now take everything that just doesnt look right. Dont compare the ratio of the parts because it'll make it hard to see.
Look at the chest piece , look at the abdominal piece , and look at the 2 missile launchers ( the 2 strips between chest and shoulder pad )

The whole thing that made it look weird but cant put a finger on it? is how wide the chest piece is.
It been wide pushed the missile launchers too far out , which in turn pushed the shoulder pads out.
Which the shoulder pad is indeed in ratio to the chest , but not the whole body. The sculptor knew that , so tried to fix it
by pushing the shoulder pad downwards , to "meld" it together if you will.

Then the wide ab armor contributed to the extra wide pelvic and legs , which is around 15% too wide.

Long story short , they tried to buff the Phantom so it wont look as fragile as Revenant , and failed.

Could be you are right, he does look a little buff for an Eldar machine... After all, they rely on speed and holofields not bulk and power as far as I remember. I find the revenant conveyed a good sense of speed and stealth while still keeping that old school long and lean eldar titan look. Graceful but not gangly...

I think the best thing to do is agree the silhouette of the mock-up is marginally 'off' design wise to us...

Kanluwen wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I made a similar comment that the shoulderpads didn't work with the rest of the model. From a design standpoint, the shoulderpads are easily the weakest visual element of the model.

What exactly, do you see as making them weak John?

What would you do to change them or make them more in line with the rest of the model?

They're shoulderpads. There's not much that really can be done with them.

Plus, it's entirely likely that the same sculptor is planning on doing a detailing set for that space and the torso to make it more intricate.

Feel free to actually make criticisms that make sense. Seriously.

But don't resort to the "Well, I don't like suchandsuchpart of the model--and if you do like it, you're obviously eSensitive and a company lapdog!" garbage.

To be honest, I have the feeling that this is going to be like discussing single-malt Scotch with someone who's only ever drank cheap beer, or fine dining with someone whose idea of a great meal is McDonalds.

Anyhoo, when I say "weak", I don't mean physically or structurally weak - I mean aesthetically, stylistically. As I see it the problem with the shoulderpads is that they simply don't match the rest of the model.

Most of the model has a strong upward sweep, which is formed by the wide hip-narrow chest-pointed head triangle. This is further accentuated very strongly by the very light and dynamic wing vanes going up and out of the models' back. Not to mention the legs tapering upward from the thick shins to the narrow thighs. Pretty much any pose is going to sweep the eye from the fairly heavy ankle, up through the knee (with a further upward point on the kneeguard and secondary upward point on the knee vane), into the hip tapering into the chest, up to the top of the head.

Now the shoulderpads simply don't fit. They droop downward from the top of the shoulder forward, and backward, and along the shoulderline. The tiny upward tips end below the shoulder tops, so net out with a downward shrug. Further, the "arch" in the design reinforces this downward motion by drives the eye up off the body and then downward to the lower points on the outer edges of the shoulder. Furthermore, with most of the model being relatively "light" due to having proportions of roughly 3:1 or slimmer, the shoulderpads being more like 1:1 or 1.5:1, and solid elements means they don't match the perceived "weight", either. Basically, the designer here is replicating the mistakes that Privateer made with their Scyrah elves.

I'd suggest a multi-floating design similar to the hip & knee armor (but with more pronounced upward vane elements). Tho if the current basic design must be adhered to, then something as simple as using a longer, slimmer design that inverse mirrors the existing sweep to go up following the arcs of the rear wing vanes, with the tips rising to the height of the forehead.

Being what is fundamentally a decorative item, the shoulderpads could be fixed in any number of ways. The notion that somehow the current design is the only one, without room for improvement is pretty ridiculous. I bet if we were to get a half-dozen sculptors to take a crack at it, each of them could come up with a different, yet effective alternative that is more true to rest of the model.

Any detailing would be polishing a turd. The fundamental problem isn't with the surfacing - even a plainly undetailed part, properly sculpted and proportioned, would look better.

You do realise that you've just create a pot-kettle situation by making that remark, right?

Given the emotional investment that you're projecting, I have to agree with Tom that you're awfully sensitive here, and I can't fathom why that is the case.

____

LunaHound wrote:Well Tom , and John , im going to list you what i think would make it look better ,
and you tell me if you agree or not.

1) Agree that the shoulder pad is abit too big ("heavy", as I put it).

2) Completely agree that the shoulder pad is indeed "droopy" (downward sweeping, as I put it).

3) Do NOT agree that the pelvic is too wide, nor that the legs are too wide apart - it's OK for the pelvis to be a bit wide, as Eldar models are somewhat "feminine" in design, and the wider hips / legs carry that through.

4) Completely disagree that the D cannon ( right arm ) is too long - Eldar weapons can be very delicate, and I have no criticism here.
____

LunaHound wrote:Long story short , they tried to buff the Phantom so it wont look as fragile as Revenant , and failed.

The reason they failed is because this is fundamentally a female model, and adding buff shoulderpads that point downward simply doesn't work. It's failing Fashion design 101. You can have horizontal or upward shoulderpads on a woman, and it looks fine, but going for a broad linebacker shoulder on an otherwise female form is horrific.

MajorTom11 wrote:Did anyone manage to snag one of those runtbots???

I picked up one for a friend yesterday, and am getting one for me sent out with one of the never-even-in-stock Tauros Assault's.

If you want sprue pics, I'll take 'em when mine turns up, as I don't have time this morning.

Huh, did they have any of the pre-orders up for sale besides the Runtbot?

I do hope that they put the Tauros Assault up for sale soon.

Whats a runtbot?

LunaHound wrote:Whats a runtbot?

Luna I do believe this:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/runt.htm

...is a Runtbot.

I'm really digging the Raven guard stuff, might have to start saving.

Kroothawk wrote:
Death Korps of Krieg
Rules Update will be included in the reprint of the 3 Vraks books in about 2 months and then put on the website as a pdf-file.

Hm. A reprint of the Vraks books? Had considered buying them come april as a birthday gift, but if they are gonna receive an update in a few months I would rather wait. Anyone know the extent of this update and should I wait?