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despoiler52 wrote:Do orks still get to use Waaaaaaaagh!? Also can you take dethkoptas?

Yes, it's an army wide special rule.
Yes, you get a fast attack slot. I've considered it, it's not a bad list... I just wish the points lined up better.

DE might be mean against some lists.

4 Wyches, 2 with Blasters, 1 Succubus with Soul Seeker ammo, Wyche weapons for the unit = 93 points
10 Warriors, 1 with a Blaster, 2 with Splinter Cannons = 105

Give the Succubus FNP, a Wyche with a Blaster would get Tank Hunter, and Furious Charge for another Wyche.

It has a good model count, pretty good special weapons but suffers from low toughness and weak regular weapons.

vets(70) with 3 grenade launchers(15) shotguns,sarge with a power weapon(10) and autocannon weapon team (10)with relentless in a chimera (55)flamer, heavy bolter and turbo boosters
scout sentinel with autocannon and tank hunter(35)

or

vets (70) with 3 grenade launchers one with tank hunter(15), shotguns ,and autocannon weapon tea with relentless(10)
gurdsman marbo with feel no pain (65)

so what do you think?

@Daemon Dave:
It's a house rule... it's not something the game allows... you could say it's due to game balance /shrug, who knows...they didn't want them there is all I can gather from it.

@karimabuseer:
I think there is a problem with your wanting that man AC's...havocs are not allowed, and you need to follow the regular rules in purchaseing squads.

So you have to purchase a 10 man squad of CSM before you can get an AC.
Unless you go with 5 Chosen with an AC instead.

@Ductvader:
That looks cool, I'm not too familiar with the Tyranid codex, but can you diversify a single Warrior Squad like that.

@despoiler52:
Dethkoptas are FA right? Then yes.
As for the Waaagh, I don't know, are there any prerequisites to having it or getting to use it. If not, then you still get to use it.

Diversify?

You can give one a big gun...that's about all you can do.

And since they all act indepedently...you can spread out a nice synapse and set up the USRs to fit whats needed.

You can call a Waaagh and DKs are fine. I think they'd work pretty well tbh.

Really like my Chaos termy kill team (the LD10 will be awesome)

Terminator w/power fist - 40
Terminator w/combi melta + chainfist - FNP - 50
Terminator w/combi melta - Tank hunter - 35
Terminator w/combi melta - 35
Terminator with lightning claws - Fleet - 40

ductvader wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:You can get a Justicar and 6 PAGK's, or less PAGK's for some gear like Psycannon or incinerator.

I think a Justicar a 4 Knight with 2 Psycannons might win out here...distance and wound allocation are going to be my friends.

Wound allocation doesn't work. Every model works like an individual unit.

Also the table is suppose to be 2Ft by 2Ft not 4X4.

Didn't realise you could dish out special rules, will need to read up on that.

BK is because if you lose the drones I thought you were counted as a squad and would need it to regroup. Current thread in you YMTC, need to double check my codex after work on this one. Target lock was a hang over from my main army list, left in from the copy and paste (increase the gun drone to another shield drone). Shield drones are for the inv save obviously and additional wounds. Means I can happily leave the suit out as bait.

S5 AP3 is very good for thinning through anything that stays out into the open. They are very mobile too. Plus they are great at finishing off units too, with I5. Vespid are massively underrated IMO.

Every model is a separate unit. Once you lose half your original models you take a leadership test with the highest leadership unit on the board. You can target your shots at anyone so shield droves become worthless since your enemy can just bypass them and fire at your weaker units.

To the OP:
A squad of celestians with an Immolator.
Dozer Blade and a multi melta. Take a flamer. Give a power weapon to the verteran sister superior. Thats around 200 points.

A valkyrie/vendetta with a squad of verteran troopers with gernadier armor, meltas, and flamers. Give the Sargent a power weapon and a bolt pistol/plasma pistol. Add heavy bolters to the valkyrie/vendetta.

Kill Team 1 (200)

Stealth Suits (92)
-Burst
-Burst
-Fusion

Firewarriors (60)
-6

Gun Drones (48)
-4

***************

Kill Team 2 (199)

Kroot (88)
-10
-Hounds - (3)

Crisis Suit (54)
-Model
-Missile Pod
-Fusion Blaster
-Multi-tracker

Crisis Suit (57)
-Model
-Twin-linked Burst Cannons
-Drone Controller
--Gun Drones - (2)


I ran both of these setups last weekend. The 2nd list performed considerably better and put out a lot more firepower. The hounds helped tremendously once it devolved into CC.

@Wakinglimb:

Terminator w/power fist - Do you really need a powerfist when most of the enemies you fight will be GEQ or MEQ, and MCs?
Terminator w/combi melta + chainfist - FNP - Same as Above.
Terminator w/combi melta - Tank hunter - Why so many meltas? Why not plasma to have that double shot available... or better yet, just keep the TL bolter.
Terminator w/combi melta - Similar to above.
Terminator with lightning claws - Fleet - Decent.

I just think it's overdoing the melta/fist equipment to fight against stuff that will largely laugh at loading up that kind of equipment, esp.e with that much cover around and huffing it.

How about Harlies? They already get Fleet, Furious Charge, Hit and Run, ignore difficult terrain. I'd probably give one Infiltrate (probably whever gets the fusion pistol), one Scouts, and one Preferred Enemy. You get a nice longer-range heavy assault gun with the Jester, "night fight" rules and grenades with the Seer, and Ld 10 with the troupe leader. Being able to move through cover at full speed should help getting them in quick while hitting and running should help them keep cover saves and allow furious charge to roll over. I'd be worried about them up against a high-volume shooty list like guard, though. Body count is low, being an issue with almost all eldar Kill Team choices, but more importantly - they have no armor save except for the 5++ and thus must rely on cover saves.

Harlequins x6
Troop Leader w/ Power Weapon
Death Jester
Shadowseer
Fusion Pistol
Kisses x4
194

I wouldn't mind trying a completely infiltrating team of 5 Pathfinders and 5 Striking Scorps either - 200 points on the nose with no upgrades on the scorps.

It looks pretty cool Gavin Thorne.
Though yes, the largest problem is squad size. Only 3 deaths to start rolling that Ld 10 and the Shadowseer only benefits him/her/its-self.

Ahhh. I'm seeing that now... and he'd be the only one to have grenades too. hrm. Looks like that gimps pretty much every eldar unit since any upgrades from exarchs and warlocks wouldn't affect the squad, as RAW & RAI intends.

Now here's an interesting quandry: "If a unit includes models with different Leadership values, always use the one with the highest Ld value." Since it's every man for himself, each model uses only their own Ld score?

Thats right. Each model would check leadership using its own value (something eldar have going for them actually).
As for the tests to see if you lose or not, after losing 50% of your units, you test with the highest leadership in your force, which would be the troupe master if he/she(?) is still alive.

Just curious but I didn't think harlies needed grenades since they completely ignore difficult terrain. Am I totally wrong there?

That's definitely the case, you only strike at I1 if you roll a terrain test. Grenades would still apply for dangerous terrain, however. I wonder if this is a 4e to 5e issue? Did defensive grenades/assaulting through cover work differently then? If it's redundant for harlies to have them *and* Veil only works for the Seer, that's 30pts I can spend on another harlie with a kiss and a second fusion pistol.

I would suggest the extra member, it brings the number up to 4 members that need to die before you need to test ld

Sanctjud wrote:@Wakinglimb:

Terminator w/power fist - Do you really need a powerfist when most of the enemies you fight will be GEQ or MEQ, and MCs?
Terminator w/combi melta + chainfist - FNP - Same as Above.
Terminator w/combi melta - Tank hunter - Why so many meltas? Why not plasma to have that double shot available... or better yet, just keep the TL bolter.
Terminator w/combi melta - Similar to above.
Terminator with lightning claws - Fleet - Decent.

I just think it's overdoing the melta/fist equipment to fight against stuff that will largely laugh at loading up that kind of equipment, esp.e with that much cover around and huffing it.

I expect to see walkers!

You cannot split your fire between two different models can you? So having more shots might not be that useful, just more models. Another reason I have these options is because I have these models!

You cannot split your fire between two different models can you?

Yes and no, depends on how you interpret the rules, it is IMO likely you can.

More shots is always better if you are playing at low points and low model count.
An opponent with twice or even three times the models with twice or even three times the fire power is an uphill climb.

Walkers.... You can fit:
1 Loyalist Dread of whatever flavor.
2 Cheap-o Chaos Dreads.
3 Sentinals.
...these are things that are either not healthy or not efficient for fist equivalents to take out.
A simple melta, or two would serve better and save the points from Fists to get more bodies.

Im thinking of using a squad of 5 naked San Guard for my next kill team mission.

What about some of the harder to kill Chaos Cults? Such as either Ksons or Death Guard?

Ksons - AP3 bolters, 4+invul
Dguard - T5, FnP, Blight Grenades

You could get a Sorc and 5 Ksons (w/ 25 points for Psychic powers) or you could get 8 Dguard with 16 points for upgrades.

Daemon Dave wrote:Im thinking of using a squad of 5 naked San Guard for my next kill team mission.

Could work. You could have some problems with needing special weapons to get rid of some things (aka dreadnoughts).

Daemon Dave wrote:Im thinking of using a squad of 5 naked San Guard for my next kill team mission.

Wait...so you want real nipples and not the fake nipples?



I think the S. Guard are a simple choice, but they are narrowly applied unit when there's no room for upgrades.

_____________

@niceas:

TS are not good... because there is so much cover, their 4++ is wasted and the AP3 is wasted with one stone.
And it's just 6 MEQs, so it would take 3 to go down to start checking.

PM's are a bit better, just lacking in some bite as they don't have much points for special weapons....just enough for 1 plasma gun or a melta and a flamer.

_________________

I might be dropping in on a Doubles Kill Team Tourney in the middle of May... still haven't nailed down a KT I'm comfortable with... I'll consolidate some lists and post up for some responces .

Sanctjud wrote:I might be dropping in on a Doubles Kill Team Tourney in the middle of May...

Doubles means Double the points?

Not really, total would be 400, but it would be 2 people/armies.

Some interesting combos are possible...though there are some streamlined rules and unit that are pretty much not allowed ( I know, they are house rules (ex. no vehicles with armor >10...wierd right ))

Yes...I am not intrigued...

Yea, but oh well, it just makes things more Necromunda-esque

just out of curiosity, how would an eldar bike list work in Kill teams

total:200

4 bikes
1 bike with cannon (infiltrate)
1 bike with cannon (tank hunters
1 jetlock with spear (feel no pain)

The list would be kinda dependent on that warlock, but bikes seem like they can function relatively well on their own, and you'd have sickening mobility in a world where a transport can only carry one model. Low numbers and low leadership is worrisome though

Kill Team should have alot of terrain....cross positions also means some flanking.

The GJB even with move shoot move aren't doing a whole lot due to not so nice BS values and the 4 other joes are too close ranged to flirt with.

It looks cool, but I don't think it would do too well, that is if you play with the correct amount of terrain.

You will rely almost solely on the Jetbike with the Cannons, as any committing Jetbike at the 12" range is most likely a dead one.

niceas wrote:What about some of the harder to kill Chaos Cults? Such as either Ksons or Death Guard?

Ksons - AP3 bolters, 4+invul
Dguard - T5, FnP, Blight Grenades

You could get a Sorc and 5 Ksons (w/ 25 points for Psychic powers) or you could get 8 Dguard with 16 points for upgrades.

Thousand Sons get the crap kicked out of them by the Killteam rules. Each model is it's own unit, so they all suffer from "The Sorcerer Commands" rules. The Sorcerer himself loses out because he doesn't have a unit to hide in.

If you know you aren't going to run up on any walkers ('Round here we play Killteam as a Necromunda type game) then 8 Noise Marines w/ Sonic Blasters are pretty hardcore. you can use them like spec ops teams. Leapfrogging pairs that use their weapons rules to isolate threats and gun them down before they can retaliate are so much fun. Especially on boards that are just covered w/ terrain.

If you are likely to face real competition then may I suggest 5x Chosen and 5X CSMs. This leaves you with 6 guys who can carry special weapons, and an option for a heavy weapon. You should have 35 points left over to get your favorite toys, and plenty of bodies to carry them.

Right, so what I'll have available to me that's painted or easily painted:

Tau:
Crisis Suit vs. Stealth Suits, then filling out the rest with Fire Warriors, I'd normally go for mass Kroot, but they won't be ready :<

Chaos Space Marines:
Noise Marines, CSM, Plague Marines, Termies, Chosen are available to me.

How about something like this:

5 NM w/ Sonic Blasters.
5 CSMs.

I'll most likely be allying with a Guard player who is likely to bring a basic platoon at the least.
So a list with the CSM above would maximize stand and shoot and rapid firing.

I can put out 20 bolter shots standing, 10 if they all have to move. I've got 10 MEQ bodies.
Not a huge mystery, it's just a ranged hammer.
Though they retain their combat weapons when combat is met...and can kite a bit.

Note, I've not picked up more stronger shooting due to the specific house rules used at the tourney (mainly Highest AV is 10)

Though I was thinking of going the (IMO) standard choice of Chosen.

7-8 w/ Hvy Bolter (relentless), Plasma gun (FNP), and if points remain, more random special or even close combat weapons.

I don't think I'll infiltrate everybody though, cause I'm most likely going to expect enemy infiltrators that will try to take better spots when they win the roll off.

My ally had requested me to do a combat oriented build, but I think CSM are inherently compitent at that role so adding shooting can't hurt right.

As for Tau, it would just be more shooting.
Something like:

4 Stealth Suits.
8 Fire Warriors.

Not really a mystery at what they do. Most likely the fire warriors would hang a bit back behind the IG, while the Stealths do their thing and target the closest stuff on the flanks and kite of course.

What do you guys think?

Groslon wrote:

Thousand Sons get the crap kicked out of them by the Killteam rules. Each model is it's own unit, so they all suffer from "The Sorcerer Commands" rules. The Sorcerer himself loses out because he doesn't have a unit to hide in.

If you know you aren't going to run up on any walkers ('Round here we play Killteam as a Necromunda type game) then 8 Noise Marines w/ Sonic Blasters are pretty hardcore. you can use them like spec ops teams. Leapfrogging pairs that use their weapons rules to isolate threats and gun them down before they can retaliate are so much fun. Especially on boards that are just covered w/ terrain.

If you are likely to face real competition then may I suggest 5x Chosen and 5X CSMs. This leaves you with 6 guys who can carry special weapons, and an option for a heavy weapon. You should have 35 points left over to get your favorite toys, and plenty of bodies to carry them.

I forgot about the Sorc Commands special rule. That would seriously suck.