Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The ba dex is what it is because of ted williams (head of design studio) and a long time ba player.
Gordon davidson did the same on the old mini dex when he was head of the design studios.

I thought it had more to do with Matt Ward being the author. The fluff certainly has his, erm... "unique touch" let's say.

sebster wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Wow.

"I can deal with giant bugs and violent fungus fighting colorfully armored, genetically engineered warrior monks in SPEHSS! But riding wolves? This is officially beyond the scope of my suspension of disbelief."

Yes. A genetically engineered man in brightly coloured powered armour is fantastical, but quite cool. A man in power armour riding a wolf into battle is stupid.

It's just my opinion, of course, there's no objective measure for when cool becomes stupid, but everyone has a point and there's been a lot of comments about how things have gone too far towards being stupid in the last few codices.

Are you arguing that there's no point where people can say 'that's just too stupid', or are you saying that no-one can consider a man on powered armour riding a wolf anywhere near that position?

I'm really not arguing either, since it's entirely subjective. I was just pointing out that there are plenty of wacky things in 40k already, and I don't see how adding a few more Space Fantasy elements is going to put it over the top.

Someone at GW has a Princess Mononoke fetish, apparently.

Terminus wrote:He IS fleet.

Still, any psychic defence and he's only got an avg15.5" threat range

Terminus wrote:Given that Space Wolves ride on giant wolf-looking creatures called "thunderwolves", are frequently followed around by smaller (but also wolf-looking) creatures called "Fenrisian wolves", bedeck themselves with animal trinkets like "wolf tail talismans" and "wolftooth necklaces", and about 90% of the Chapter's nomenclature involves the word "wolf" in some way, I'm pretty damn sure there are some friggin' wolves on Fenris.

Read some more literature first before responding. There are NO wolves on Fenris. They are *not* wolves - just because they are called that does not make them *actually* wolves.

Read the 1k sons novel sometimes, its a good read.

"Literature"? I don't think anything has ever come out of the Black Library that I would call literature. All too often, they are just officially sanctioned fanfics.

So okay, are they just extra shaggy horses that only happen to very closely resemble wolves, hunt in packs, and howl at the moon a lot? They sure look like wolves to me. Mutated/alien wolves from space? Sure, but still wolves.

Oh, okay. If they're actually mutant wolf horses I'm fine with it.

Just Dave wrote:

Baxx wrote:So now that the new codex is good, I can win some games. 3rd edition codex was fair, the 4th/5th edition pdf codex was terrible. Having played with over prized units for many years, I think most BA players deserve a treat.

Oh, this could be good for the Dark Angels, Dark Eldar, Inquisition, Tau and Necron codices...

My Blood Angels from the previous codex had very little success against Necrons. I have lost many a time against both Dark Angels (Deathwing), never won against Tau, but haven't had much experience against Dark Eldar. Ok so I might have played bad, but I can't see why those armies should be any worse. And they at least had real codexes, not a pile of printed A4 papers which I had to carry with me each time, for many years.

Just Dave wrote:
- IC's being unable to join squads - why not? they're a HQ choice...

All Blood Angels Independent Characters can join squads. Not all HQ choices are Independent Characters, like Honour Guards, Death Company Tycho, The Sanguinor and Mephiston. The reason why some of these HQ choices aren't Independent Characters is because they are so awesome and powerfull, the enemy must be able to target them alone, because they are too strong otherwise. This goes for many über characters in other codexes as well.

Just Dave wrote:
- Why do they use Librarian Dreadnoughts but nobody else does?

They have since 3rd edition had more dreadnoughts than any other armies, why shouldn't they now? I fielded a 6 dreadnought army back then, in a 1500pts list.

Baxx wrote:And they at least had real codexes, not a pile of printed A4 papers which I had to carry with me each time, for many years.

I must be the only guy who actually liked that it was a downloadable pdf. I printed it out and put it in a binder and sheet protectors. It was much easier to use during a game since it could actually lay flat while open for reference. I liked that so much that I took the new codex to a print shop and had the binding sliced off so I could put the new one in a binder too.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Lupines you mean.

And there ARE NO wolves on Fenris.

Of course not. There are creatures that look exactly like wolves, that are named after the latin word for wolf, that are closely associated with the space marine chapter the Space Wolves. But there's no wolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:I'm really not arguing either, since it's entirely subjective. I was just pointing out that there are plenty of wacky things in 40k already, and I don't see how adding a few more Space Fantasy elements is going to put it over the top.

And all I'm saying is that the last few codices put it pretty close to that point for me, and I've heard plenty of people say similar things.

Someone at GW has a Princess Mononoke fetish, apparently.

You know what'd make Princess Monoke cooler? If instead of a princess it was this awesome space viking that was nine foot tall and covered in metal armour who was awesome, and instead of a wolf it was this thing called a lupine that was like a wolf.

sebster wrote:Of course not. There are creatures that look exactly like wolves, that are named after the latin word for wolf, that are closely associated with the space marine chapter the Space Wolves. But there's no wolves.

Mind if I sig this?

Theyre genetically engineered animals, but NOT wolves as we would know them.

Just because you call something a mouse doesnt actualy make it a mouse.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Theyre genetically engineered animals, but NOT wolves as we would know them.

Just because you call something a mouse doesnt actualy make it a mouse.

Yeah but if it looks like a mouse and we call it a mouse, heck it might just be a mouse.

Ummm guys, we seem to have shifted off topic and are now talking about how realistic an enormously strong wolf could be in a make-believe universe in which Derek Akorah is god and people fight aliens with swords...

Too right.

Back on topic then. Yes, I believe that GW has jumped the shark and will continue to do so until people stop buying their little army men.

It's not that bad if you run into the 'friendly gamer' but the WAAC guys...god damn those are some fething nasty lists.

Gave me some hope when I saw a Tau list depants a BA army in two turns. He had Mephiston and a small unit of death company left and a WTF look on his face.

Lots of dreads + railguns = not happy BA player.

agnosto wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Theyre genetically engineered animals, but NOT wolves as we would know them.

Just because you call something a mouse doesnt actualy make it a mouse.

Yeah but if it looks like a mouse and we call it a mouse, heck it might just be a mouse.

except the fluff has stated htey are not a mouse...err, wolf.

It does it repeatedly.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

agnosto wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Theyre genetically engineered animals, but NOT wolves as we would know them.

Just because you call something a mouse doesnt actualy make it a mouse.

Yeah but if it looks like a mouse and we call it a mouse, heck it might just be a mouse.

except the fluff has stated htey are not a mouse...err, wolf.

It does it repeatedly.

So I should just disregard pages 30 and 34 of the recent codex that repeatedly calls them "wolves" and doesn't mention anything about them being genetically engineered. It does mention that space wolves hunt and capture them and that they form a bond with them and that iron priests may augment them with bionics.....oddly, nothing about them being the result of genetic engineering.

What part of *calling* something a wolf doesnt actually *make* it a wolf went past you?

There. Are. No. Wolves. On. Fenris.

nosferatu1001, the book calls them wolves so they're wolves. It's 40K, biological taxonomy and categorization died with the advent of warp travel.

Now, if you want to continue, perhaps you'd like to change to something like "Just because they're wolves, doesn't mean they're the same as Terran wolves!" Or maybe you'd like to start complaining that the Space Marines aren't actually marines because they don't train to serve at sea?

nosferatu1001 wrote:What part of *calling* something a wolf doesnt actually *make* it a wolf went past you?

There. Are. No. Wolves. On. Fenris.

You can't tell that by reading the codex. It never mentions them as anything other than wolves. I don't really care; to me, it's like calling a panini a sandwich....two pieces of bread with meat and cheese between....it looks like a sandwich, it tastes like a sandwich, it must be a sandwich.

Life's much easier if you don't get worked up over things that don't matter.

kaptaink wrote:Blood blood blood, nipples nipples nipples.

Thanks a lot, donkey-cave--now I have to buy a new keyboard.

agnosto wrote:Gave me some hope when I saw a Tau list depants a BA army in two turns. He had Mephiston and a small unit of death company left and a WTF look on his face.

Lots of dreads + railguns = not happy BA player.

So far the bat reps I'm seeing have the BA losing. It might be that the theoretical power levels are not working out in practice. It also might be the the BA players don't know how to use the list well yet. On a related note I have seen some blog and forum posts about the lists popping up around the web being too much like the old lists instead of adapting to the new goodies.

I know in my own case I've fielded a list very close to my old pdf codex lists using an assault squad, reclusisarch and priest to create an erstaz death company as the hammer unit.

solkan wrote:nosferatu1001, the book calls them wolves so they're wolves. It's 40K, biological taxonomy and categorization died with the advent of warp travel.

Now, if you want to continue, perhaps you'd like to change to something like "Just because they're wolves, doesn't mean they're the same as Terran wolves!" Or maybe you'd like to start complaining that the Space Marines aren't actually marines because they don't train to serve at sea?

Because the 1k sons book states they arent wolves. repeatedly.

c alling something a wolf doesnt make it one - and the "wolves" on fenris are NOT wolves. What they are (or highly suggested they are!) is very creepy, but explains why no other SM chapter uses "animals" in the same way as SW do.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Because the 1k sons book states they arent wolves. repeatedly.

c alling something a wolf doesnt make it one - and the "wolves" on fenris are NOT wolves. What they are (or highly suggested they are!) is very creepy, but explains why no other SM chapter uses "animals" in the same way as SW do.

Sorry but Black Library books are not fluff, nor are they canon. Meh, it's a pointless debate anyway; believe what you want to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arschbombe wrote:

So far the bat reps I'm seeing have the BA losing. It might be that the theoretical power levels are not working out in practice. It also might be the the BA players don't know how to use the list well yet. On a related note I have seen some blog and forum posts about the lists popping up around the web being too much like the old lists instead of adapting to the new goodies.

I know in my own case I've fielded a list very close to my old pdf codex lists using an assault squad, reclusisarch and priest to create an erstaz death company as the hammer unit.

I think they'll come into their own once people stop trying to do dread spam because it's an option. A balanced BA list should be just as, or more so, dangerous as any other assaulty army.

agnosto wrote:
Life's much easier if you don't get worked up over things that don't matter.

Yeah, but then 90% of the internet wouldn't exist.

As the Chaos players sit back and laugh bitterly seeing that they too know how it feels. Clearly Tzeentch has succeeded in his plan.

Yes, why would anyone on a Warhammer 40k web forum actually care about the background, or the game for that matter?

People who care are so lame anyways, amirite?

There's a fine line between caring and getting so worked up that things get ugly.

I think the more salient point is that the Taxonomy of Fenrisian Alien WolfMoose is nothing to get one's panties in a twist over.

WolfMoose?

@ Nurglitch,
It's a game. If you want a story, read a book; if you want a game, play it. If it meant anything, the company that makes it would actually hold to a storyline; instead they change fluff whenever the whim strikes them and the people the black library books are often worse than fan-fiction.