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TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

CrazyThang wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:I'd go with the GE. I think their groundforces weapons and armor are superior to Guardsman. Next the AT-AT is more formidable than most people realise. It's shots were missing people and they were still blown away. The GE has shield technology located on almost every ground based armored vehicle, from the lumbering giants to the skimmer like ships in clone wars.

Jedi are not psykers. They manipulate the force, which is living things. Imperium psykers draw upon the warp and as such can be attacked by it. The two operate differently and as such the Imperium wouldn't be able to stop Jedi powers with anti-warp stuff like psychic hoods. If a Jedi had a unit of assault terminators bearing down on him he could just force push the Termies away, pick one up and start playing WII Bowling on the battlefield.

Pretty sure Titan and even some Titan-killer shots would do the same. The shields would probably stop things like lasguns but a Baneblade or even a Leman Russ would likely destroy them (as previously mentioned solid shots tend to work on them well). And as to Jedi... after the "bowling session" (more likely before) an Imperial Psyker would make the Jedi's head explode.

and the sith behind him, (and yes i say sith as we are talking about the empire and not the republic) would kill said psyker in the same manner using the force or possibly in an even worse manner (life drain anyone?)

My bad, Sith then, same principal applies. (Though you said Jedi.)

i would also like to see a Sith/jedi attempt to deflect a Lascannon or Bolter shot for the first time.

he would probably just dodge the lascannon, but he would deflect the bolter shot.

the bolter shot would promptly explode upon impact with the blade, showering the jedi with Shrapnel.

now imagine if that bolter shell were a Metal Storm, Helfire or Dragonfire round

Grey Templar wrote:i would also like to see a Sith/jedi attempt to deflect a Lascannon or Bolter shot for the first time.

he would probably just dodge the lascannon, but he would deflect the bolter shot.

the bolter shot would promptly explode upon impact with the blade, showering the jedi with Shrapnel.

now imagine if that bolter shell were a Titan Volcano Cannon Burst

Corrected your typo

He could just use the Force to block it or make it change directions.

I would like to suggest that during this battle the Empire would be upgrading their tech to that equal or greater than that of the Imperium using captured items. Meanwhile the Imperium would not due to their calling all foreign tech heretical.

A big hairy Tanith trooper in close combat with pansies in white armour

the instant a Volcano cannon round hit any sort of obstruction it explodes.

the best a Jedi/sith could do is put up a shield and hope he can stand the radiation.

Grey Templar wrote:i would also like to see a Sith/jedi attempt to deflect a Lascannon or Bolter shot for the first time.

he would probably just dodge the lascannon, but he would deflect the bolter shot.

the bolter shot would promptly explode upon impact with the blade, showering the jedi with Shrapnel.

now imagine if that bolter shell were a Metal Storm, Helfire or Dragonfire round

Ah but he would sense blocking would be a bad idea, and simply decide to be in a different place, thus dodging it

Strictly ground war IoM wins hands down. GE just doesn't have anything ground based that can even touch a Titan...far superior range and firepower than any GE ground based vehicle. I personally would assume that Storm Troopers in GE are about equivilant to Storm Troopers in the IG codex. While they are awsome and would be able to kill tons of guardsmen easily they just don't have the amount of support vehicles to really make a difference. One Emperor Titan and a couple of deathstrike missles is all the Imperium needs to keep them at range.

If you add in space combat GE wins hands down. Sure the Imperiums capitol ships are much bigger/heavily armored and have longer range/more destructive weapons. However, their fighter support is actually very poor to the point that it's almost defenseless against a dedicated fighter attack. Anyone who's ever played the old Tie Fighter video game knows that a single well-pioleted Tie Interceptor can take out the entire Imerial fleet by itself. Add in a Death Star and hyperdrive makes the GE dominate any space battle.


A more interesting combat would be a Grey Knight Grand Master vs. Jedi master....who wins?

I think the most effective way to kill a force-user with firepower might come from shotguns, preferrably automatic mode. Something like eight to twelve indivdually moving bullets per shell and three of those in one second...Jedi and Sith are good, and there are examples in books and movies where they were able to stop an onslaught like this with the force, but I doubt that every Jedi or Sith will be able to pull this off multiple times with 100% effectiveness. And since those guys wear 6+ armour at best, the slightest bit of shotgun ammo coming through will cause some serious damage.

The whole space battle thing, I'm still pretty sure the IoM would dominate pretty heavily, I mean their ships are just so much more heavily armed/armored/shielded and the point defense (at least in some of the books) is pretty good on anything larger than, like, a drop pod.

I would like to mention the fact of psykers. Every time they use their power, they could become possessed by the warp. Meanwhile the Jedi can use their power with the only negative outcome being that they turn Sith in which they grow more powerful.

darwinn69 wrote:Strictly ground war IoM wins hands down. GE just doesn't have anything ground based that can even touch a Titan...far superior range and firepower than any GE ground based vehicle. I personally would assume that Storm Troopers in GE are about equivilant to Storm Troopers in the IG codex. While they are awsome and would be able to kill tons of guardsmen easily they just don't have the amount of support vehicles to really make a difference. One Emperor Titan and a couple of deathstrike missles is all the Imperium needs to keep them at range.

If you add in space combat GE wins hands down. Sure the Imperiums capitol ships are much bigger/heavily armored and have longer range/more destructive weapons. However, their fighter support is actually very poor to the point that it's almost defenseless against a dedicated fighter attack. Anyone who's ever played the old Tie Fighter video game knows that a single well-pioleted Tie Interceptor can take out the entire Imerial fleet by itself. Add in a Death Star and hyperdrive makes the GE dominate any space battle.


A more interesting combat would be a Grey Knight Grand Master vs. Jedi master....who wins?

the Empire may have better Fighters(highly debatable) however the size of the ships does matter.


the armour on even the smallest IoM ship is incredibly thick. the prow of escorts is 12 meters thick, Capitol vessels likely have side armour 3 times that thickness. plus there is Void shield technology.

also IoM space ships begin fighting at distances of 1,000s of Kilometers. at that distance you can't get a visual while it appeares that Empire vessals are quite visable when they fight meaning the effective range of their weapons is lower.

now the Empire does have the Hyperdrive to its advantage so they could pull hit and run attacks, but in any standup fight they would lose so bad. and they wouldn't start off thinking they could lose because they are used to standup fights.



Back on topic:

the GKGM would likely win as he is immune to the force powers of the jedi master while having powers of his own.

Whatsit Tooya wrote:I would like to mention the fact of psykers. Every time they use their power, they could become possessed by the warp. Meanwhile the Jedi can use their power with the only negative outcome being that they turn Sith in which they grow more powerful.

Yes but (having not read more than like 2 SW books) Psykers seem more powrful than Jedi/Sith, especially the trained ones (Librarians). I mean, they can rip holes in reality, can the force do that?

only those who are extreamly powerful in the force can do it.


i would say most sanctioned psykers are weaker or at best on par with a Jedi/Sith, but a Librarian would totally PWN any of them.

Porbably.. if Yoda went Sith and didn't CARE he was ripping holes in reality, i mean, what exactly does that accomplish? It would be so much more fun to just blow up their heads, convince them they were your best friends and turn on their enemies, throw them a couple hundred feet beneath a landing ship or walking AT-AT, or stunning them then carving your initials in their chest then lobbing off their head...

Most 40k psykers do one of two things, boost/lower a statline or kill stuff. A jedi can literally make someone do something they dont want to. Imagine your IG commanders suddenly ordering his entire battalion to open fire on the other battalion next to them because they are "heretics" or something, Nothing like a couple thousand free soldiers...

<waves hand> This is not the army you are looking for <waves hand again> That unit is infested with heretics and plans to kill you, shoot them all! <grabs lawnchair, popcorn and watches the show>

No but they can do all this http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_power

GT - I wasnt saying they were a viable counter, just that it existed.

The quote in the book described it as the oldest type of power weapon, using technology now lost - it strongly implies there are other examples around, just slightly less rare than hens teeth.

Whatsit Tooya wrote:No but they can do all this http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_power

Too bad the thing on top says the facts of the article are disputed.
Oh and (at least in the movies and games) for the mind trick you need to be pretty close and have clear LoS. You seem to forget that Psykers have a certain amount of precognitive ability as well (though not as much as the force grants) and can also throw up shields "just in time". Maybe an IoM psyker would be beaten, but a Librarian, and most definitly an Epistolary, would totally destroy the Jedi/Sith. And ya know, the whole hole in reality thing, that kills things just as effectively as exploding heads (which I don't recall from anything SW I have seen).

Many of these abilities are used in the Darth Bane novels.

Also you do not have to be close to the target it just helps in concentration.

Whatsit Tooya wrote:Many of these abilities are used in the Darth Bane novels.

Now that I actually read the article that is a ton of stuff I didn't know about.

But I still asert that well-trained psykers are more than a match for a well trained Jedi/Sith.

If we're discussing GE versus IoM, shouldn't we be discussing Sith rather than Jedi? Also, even then, Sith are rare. Far rarer than, say, Space Marines...

felixthecat345 wrote:

Lord Demon wrote: It would be like throwing a poodle in a pool with sharks.

Oh, that's just sad

Yeah, for the sharks. There's hardly any meat worth the chewing on a poodle. :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Whatsit Tooya wrote: If any of you had read Karen Travis' books .

Except most of her stuff has now been rendered non-canon by a cartoon.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:If we're discussing GE versus IoM, shouldn't we be discussing Sith rather than Jedi? Also, even then, Sith are rare. Far rarer than, say, Space Marines...

You're right!

So jedi are a moot point anyway. And there are only two sith in the GE.

Klawz wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:If we're discussing GE versus IoM, shouldn't we be discussing Sith rather than Jedi? Also, even then, Sith are rare. Far rarer than, say, Space Marines...

You're right!

So jedi are a moot point anyway. And there are only two sith in the GE.

Very good point. Now have a very large number of psykers signed "From the Imperium" thrown at your face with no counter, MWHAHAHAH!!

You'd still be fighting jedi if you were fighting on a neutral planet

Actually you bring up a good point, whats the time frame on this fight? (As in between what and what movies or whatnot)

EDIT:
Nevermind read OP. Between Clone Wars and Return there were very few Jedi that were not in hiding/dead so I still fail to see your point. (People who have read the books can correct me now about how the movies are wrong)

.....There is no spoon..... <watches all the psyker heads explode>

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:.....There is no spoon..... <watches all the psyker heads explode>

I find your lack of cutlery... disturbing.

Whut?

*head explodes*

Sorry, I have NO idea what happened there...