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Good Game!

Regardless of the players, regardless of outside arguments... I gotta give a lot of respect for this match. From what I was able to read there was a lot of very sharp play.

One note: If I was there and I had not been told that terrain thing would put vehicles on tops of buildings, I would imagine driving inside them as well. Makes more sense from a realism perspective. As I wasn't there I can't comment, however.

This thread has been.... decently civil I suppose. Better than I expected. Keep it up Dakka. Make my choice of tactics sites woth it.

Deadshane1 wrote:Stelek's not infallible/Human? Whodathunkit? (though he himself was prolly surprised)

He lost a game while remaining on top of the heap. Like MVBrandt essentaially said, another GOOD player beat him.

So what?

Losing to nobody but the guy who went 6-0 at a 90 person event is nothing but bragging rights, good job for Stelek. Im glad he came out of his Mom's basement and proved he knows what he is doing.


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Snikkyd wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I don't know why it matters. Saying "Orks suck" isn't the same as saying "Everyone that plays Orks sucks". A good player can take a sub-par codex and do pretty good with it, which Dash demonstrated at Nova.

Indeed, if you're a good player and do pretty good with Orks then why do you give a gak what "tier" some guy on the internet ranks them at?

I agree, and thats why he should say "Orks aren't competitive" if thats what he thinks, instead of "Orks suck" because thats what he come across as saying, that everything about them is bad.

Also Nash, I don't think Stelek changed his opinion on Orks, but he did seem to think they can still do well. Sometimes I don't really understand him, he annoys people by saying that their army sucks, then says that any army can win with a good player. No need to questin his motives I guess, just believe what you want to believe.

I disagree with Stelek on the ork ratings, I put them right below ba/wolves and right next to guard. As for your other comments.

'sometimes he annoys people by saying their army sucks'

Hell I have been told by lots of people on here and other forums my nid and eldar army lists suck. I could care less. If some guy on the internet telling you 'your army sucks' is annoying you should man up. Why would you dislike someone because they dislike your army.

'any army can win with a good player'

Oh man, I bet that was a huge revelation for him.


Stelek has been nothing but gracious to his opponents. He said Tony just outplayed him, and I do believe he told Dash if he had been running a better army he (stelek) would have lost. Like I said, I disagree that orks suck, but if big bad Stelek fits your definition of a douche bag you need to rethink some stuff.

I would loved to have watched that game.

DoP and Stelek would be awesome dudes to chat to...

Grimgob wrote:when someone does not know your codex and you keep asking alot of questions it can be really bothersome and distracting to the game. He should have just given you his codex and said "look up what ever you need to, I'm tring to concentrate". This does not lend credibility to your status as one of the best 40k players.

The only claim I've ever made is to know Orks very well. And I do. My Dark Eldar tournament record is just as good and better than my Ork record (and at harder events too!) but the only advice I've EVER dispensed about Dark Eldar is to look up Thor665, or Clthomps, who are the true Dark Eldar tacticians.

I was commenting on yours and steleks game, about how frustrating it can be sometimes when the person your playing doesnt have a good grasp of at least the popular codexes at a competitive tourny.

I'd like to say I'm pretty pleased with the way the game played out. I am surprised it went so slowly, but as DashofPepper has explained, he was out of practice with his Orks and I'm sure they were measuring all the distances carefully for each model.

Before DashofPepper quit posting battle-reports, it had seemed to me that he was a competent player who was successful against incompetent players, and that when he ran into a series of ties at the last 'Ardboyz event it was because he was finally playing non-clueless players. His game against Stelek proved to me that he can do well against players that don't make elementary mistakes, although I still find it interesting that he had to have so much of Codex: Space Wolf explained to him. I say interesting as it's currently inconclusive what such incomplete knowledge of the rules says about a successful competitor such as him.

I don't think it was unreasonable of Stelek to expect him to know the book cover-to-cover, and I'm certainly surprised by the news that he didn't. Again, this is inconclusive regarding what it means about him as a player and the state of the game, but interesting because of what it might suggest. Watching the videos it was nice to see DashofPepper coming off as a nice guy. From my perspective, and remember this is just a perspective limited to the video, it seemed like he was going out of his way to make Stelek comfortable, and that this did not seem to be reciporicated, which speaks to his character.

With regards to Stelek, I was surprised when I watched the video, having read his blog (including its specific personal attacks on me), his posts on Dakka, and heard his guest-spots on various pod-casts: it's always interesting to put a face to a voice and for a while I was surprised by the dissonance between the person I had grown to loathe and the regular game-store joe I saw in the video. However, I did notice him slip into familiar territory when interviewed about other 'challenge' type games he had played, complete with swearing, and I found it interesting that he seemed to sit and brood for most of the game (at least when the camera was on him!). Maybe he was doing complex calculations in his head, I don't know.

I certainly found it interesting that he considered the quantum entanglement of Battlewagon and Bastion early in the game to be reportedly "bullsh*t". It doesn't speak volumes about his character but there's some minor insight. Likewise the reports from DashofPepper that he got impatient with DashofPepper's incomplete knowledge of Codex: Space Wolf. It seems to me that when he's feeling threatened or put upon we get the Stelek of myth and legend, the internet tough guy, but otherwise we get something that every games store seems to have, the slightly portly guy that's really into the game and who plays the game rather than playing with his opponent.

I believe that Warhammer 40k is a co-operative game, where players are constantly negotiating within the framework of the rules to make sure that they're both playing the same game. I haven't faced a situation like the quantum entanglement mentioned earlier in a long while because I learned to play the game as a constant discussion where players interacted ("If I move into this terrain, do you agree that you'll have line of sight, because if you do, then I don't want to make that move. Where can I move this to keep it out of line of sight?") Mind you, if my experience on Dakka Dakka is any indication, I have a very unique and individual experience of Warhammer 40k that I share with only a few individuals that I have played as part of the Rogue Battalion in Halifax, a couple of Canadian Grand Tournaments, and my gaming group (to dignify it as something more than friends playing together) in Toronto.

Of the two, DashofPepper seems like the guy I would like to game with, because he seems like he knows that a game of Warhammer 40k is something the players create together, playing with each other rather than against each other. Stelek, for all that he managed to sublimate his distateful internet persona, doesn't seem to get that he's playing with someone, and that even competing against someone the point of the game is to co-operate to ensure an even competition and to enrich the experience. It's a subtle difference, but it's interesting to see it come across just from a few minutes of video and interview. I could be wrong. In fact I hope I'm wrong and Andrew Sutton is just another game-store misanthrope that's a little rough around the edges, but so far these are my conclusions and I'm looking forward to seeing them change and develop.

Nurglitch wrote:

Before DashofPepper quit posting battle-reports, it had seemed to me that he was a competent player who was successful against incompetent players, and that when he ran into a series of ties at the last 'Ardboyz event

Actually, out of the 6 rounds of 'Ard Boyz I was in, I had 5 full point massacres and a single massacred - on table #1 playing for a 2500 point army. =p

The tournament where I got a series of ties was a random RTT somewhere not local to me that had....about 16 players in it if I remember correctly. Maybe less; its fuzzy now.

Also, kind words coming from you - they're appreciated!

Anyway, my batrep is up; link is in my signature.

Dash,

You played a great game and did it with class. What more could people want?

Congrats to both Dash and Stelek for a great, albeit, long game on Friday night.

maki0423 wrote:Congrats to both Dash and Stelek for a great, albeit, long game on Friday night.

I addressed that in my battle report.

Between taking pictures, getting questions answered, interviews, and the fact that I'm rusty at Orks on the table (been playing DE for six months with the exception of 'Ard Boyz)....I was breaking back into stride.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Between taking pictures, getting questions answered, interviews, and the fact that I'm rusty at Orks on the table (been playing DE for six months with the exception of 'Ard Boyz)....I was breaking back into stride.

And maybe we will see a different kind of WaaaaghhH! in the future?

WarOne wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Between taking pictures, getting questions answered, interviews, and the fact that I'm rusty at Orks on the table (been playing DE for six months with the exception of 'Ard Boyz)....I was breaking back into stride.

And maybe we will see a different kind of WaaaaghhH! in the future?

Yes, a pink one with WBB and gigantic pyramid shaped battlewagons.

Dashofpepper wrote:

WarOne wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Between taking pictures, getting questions answered, interviews, and the fact that I'm rusty at Orks on the table (been playing DE for six months with the exception of 'Ard Boyz)....I was breaking back into stride.

And maybe we will see a different kind of WaaaaghhH! in the future?

Yes, a pink one with WBB and gigantic pyramid shaped battlewagons.

I approve of this paintscheme

In no way do those Necrons represent the views of the other Necrons out there.

Was an interesting read, that one very impressive deff-rolla tank shock piqued my interest and was nice to see two gents slugging it out through the use of plastic.

Bunker that army is some guy making his little girl very happy or some very twisted freak like Bufflo Bill.

tealzooka wrote:Bunker that army is some guy making his little girl very happy or some very twisted freak like Bufflo Bill.

That's actually Alex Fennel, multiple GT winner and all around fun Brit. He's "The Everliving" here on Dakka. He also has Pink Chaos marines, and probably enjoys playing pink armies for the same reason I do. This is a picture I took of his Chaos Marines at the SVDM GT.

Pink armies are a surefire way to throw an opponent off.

I can say with absolute certainty that if I was across the table from a Hello Kitty Marine army or a couple Unyuufexes, I'd be too busy laughing/asking to look at models to care how the match turned out.

Coincidentally, my fiance assures me that a pink army is the only way to even get her to think about the hobby. This is also the same girl that thinks that the zombies in Left 4 Dead are "adorable". Good thing for me she has scrapbooking.

Quite a few posts have been removed and/or edited in an attempt to keep this thread on-topic...which is to discuss the game played between Dash and Stelek at NOVA.

Anyone who wants to continue to take the discussion somewhere else, please be warned that doing so will result in disciplinary action.


Thank you for your cooperation.

Bunker wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

WarOne wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Between taking pictures, getting questions answered, interviews, and the fact that I'm rusty at Orks on the table (been playing DE for six months with the exception of 'Ard Boyz)....I was breaking back into stride.

And maybe we will see a different kind of WaaaaghhH! in the future?

Yes, a pink one with WBB and gigantic pyramid shaped battlewagons.

I approve of this paintscheme

I played on a table next to this army at adepticon, its very very cool.

Pink armies are boss, I run purple nids and pink/silver mechdar, its great fun.

hey dash, assuming points are accounted for do you feel long fangs or lootas are the better shooty unit?

Good tournament Justin, im glad to see another person consistently do well with ORKS. The green boggie men have gained much with you in the fold.
I look forward to playing your orks in some tournament in the future.

Anyone who says orks are not a top tier army has not bumped into one of the top ork players

Fantasy Results:


Fantasy Competitive: http://novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fantasy-Competitive.pdf

Fantasy Renaissance: http://novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fantasy-Ren.pdf

Competitive final between Nicholas Walters and Mark Aksel, Mark won (both Dwarves)

The RTT was down here in Atlanta. But that means you had played your Orks at least once in the past few months....





Clay

Can someone link me to the pod cast with Stelek? Thanks!


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Anyone???

i have to say i like the outcome of this match.

i am happy to see that stelek really seems to be a good player and not just a guy with a big mouth. i frequently have a look at his blog, reading about armylists and tactics, ignoring the ranting and swearing. yes, the way he presents his stuff is a bit special but so what? i have no problem to filter and process the information provided and think about it for myself. just don't look at his blog as "the law" or something. just consider it as ideas and views and its fine.
i agree with him that orks have issues. another good article about this is at kirby's 3++ blog. i play orks myself and well... the army has its issues but is no utter crap.

that brings me to the other half of why i like the outcome:
dash showed that he really is a good ork general that plays his list well although it doesn't seem to look optimal to lots of internet folks.

so glückwunsch to both of you, dash and stelek!

My impression of the game was that both players could have done some things more ideal, but that both players were clearly "good" at what they were doing.

Dash also operates with far and away NOT the best Ork list, but makes good things happen with it due to his familiarity.

There are certain ork builds that I'd take up against any army out there any day of the week; but it wasn't really my place to try and participate in proving a point at my own event.