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Guitardian wrote:@Boss Big'Un

I actually have a old citadel lead figure of a space marine scout with an eldar shuriken catapult, which makes your idealism of the space marines wrong and wrong again.

What, back in Ye Olde Days when SM's were brutish thugs?
It's been retconned that SM's see xenos as disgusting, so these days it makes no sense for an SM to use an alien's weapon. Even if the marine would use one, he would not be able to keep it, as the chapter in general would see it as tainted.

Gwar! wrote:Instead we got The Bloody Bloody Bloody Talons with the Blood Fists and the Blood Chalices and the Blood lances and the Blood Armours with BFF FOREVER Necrons.

Mat Ward = CS Goto 2.0

Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not get carried away here.
Mat Ward writes...awkward rules, sure. But it's not him writing the fluff that fills the books. That's people like Phil Kelly, Andy Hoare, Gav Thorpe, etc.

And as an aside, precedent for these "alliances of convenience" was set prior to Blood Angels, with Planetstrike mentioning Marneus Calgar forming an impromptu cease-fire with the Tau to counter a Tyranid Splinter Fleet. Once it got too bad to handle, he opted to let the Tau even evacuate their forces from the planet before committing Exterminatus and burning the planet behind them.

It might happen. a Tac marine is fighting a mob of orkz, he's the only tac marine left, his bolter and bolt pistol are out of ammo. He knows the combat knife won't work forever, so he picks up a Ork Burna and roasts the orkz until backup can arrive (or he is overrun). Either way, he doesn't keep the burna.

Edit: i thought the Tau/Ultramarine teamup was against Necrons.

@ Guitardian - No need for hostility or smarmyism...

I am sure you feel ( an everyone will agree) that your "Old citadel lead figure" over-rules all the cannon out for the space marines. But I don't think that it would, unless it does, and if so, then I would need to see some documents on it!

I mean I am all for home-brewed rules... but publishing something is different than saying "this marine has a shruiken catapult he uses as a weapon as it was a trophy take from a far-seer who he killed in single coabt with a Power Spoon as he waited in line for chow..." and that being the reason you use the weapon profile instead of his normal bolter... whatever.. it is a game.

But when you publish something, it is saying "this has our corporation's stamp of approval." It means something.

I have a football with a clown glued to it....that doesn't mean that the NFL is going to play a game with a marrionette adhered to the ole pigskin.

Do you think so?

Iur_tae_mont wrote:It might happen. a Tac marine is fighting a mob of orkz, he's the only tac marine left, his bolter and bolt pistol are out of ammo. He knows the combat knife won't work forever, so he picks up a Ork Burna and roasts the orkz until backup can arrive (or he is overrun). Either way, he doesn't keep the burna.

Edit: i thought the Tau/Ultramarine teamup was against Necrons.

Sorry to cause confusion, but I was arguing against extended use of an alien weapon. Yours is a very valid point, though.

@ Guitardian - Please don't take offense and believe that anything I say is a slight against you personally, I don't even know you.

But do understand that you are in a minority when it come to THIS topic on THIS thread.

I admire you for standing up for C.S. Goto (who you believe is a good writer) and I commend you for doing so. (And hopefully you aren't just trollin' looking for a flame-out of this thread.)

But I have read the posts and feel that the concensus is correct. C.S. Goto has hacked up years of cannon, and thousands of years of "in game" history to "turn a phrase."

Not accebtable...IMO and totally deserved of all the venom he is accruing.

This sounds incredibly silly, I wonder if amazon.com sells his books?

Probably, they stock a lot of things on Amazon.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Just chalk it down to unsubstantiated rumours.

Wouldn't surprise me. There was a rumour once that the BA codex would have marines riding giant vampire bats a la Thunerwolf style. You go figure that one out.

That sounds pretty zarjaz actually. It could look like this but with bigger pauldrons.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Just chalk it down to unsubstantiated rumours.

Wouldn't surprise me. There was a rumour once that the BA codex would have marines riding giant vampire bats a la Thunerwolf style. You go figure that one out.

That sounds pretty zarjaz actually. It could look like this but with bigger pauldrons.

why does that image make me crave a happy-meal?

And a big red marine, no doubt swinging something lethally pointed. Now that I think about it, that actually sounds kinda cool.

the thing is...

Marines riding giant ferocious beasts makes sense.

Marines falling in love with Eldar farseers who are Slanesesh w(h)orshiping Pedophiles doesn't make sense and is wrong on multiple levels.



Blood angels riding giant bats might be a little OTT, but it sort of works.

Grey Templar wrote:the thing is...

Marines riding giant ferocious beasts makes sense.

Marines falling in love with Eldar farseers who are Slanesesh w(h)orshiping Pedophiles doesn't make sense and is wrong on multiple levels.



Blood angels riding giant bats might be a little OTT, but it sort of works.

Besides, if nothing else, SMs riding beasts of war is so utterly METAL that it make up for it's oddness.
There is no redeeming factor to paedophilia.

Amen brother, Amen.

If you are the last one out, turn off the lights when you leave....

Anyone who has read 'Fellowship of the Ring' will notice that nowhere does it have Legolas doing backflips on the back of the troll, and I don't believe him sliding down the trunk of an Oliphant was in 'Return of the King' either... but nobody complained when they saw it in the movie, did they? Why? Because it was cool! because it was entertaining!

I complained about it, that gak was stupid.

Eisenhorn (an INQUISITOR and Daemon hunter!!!) flips out with fear when he sees a Chaos Marine. Indescrepancies exist everywhere.

Eisenhorne was not a Daemon Hunter, but a member of the Ordo Xenos and I believe that was his first up-close encounter ever with a Chaos Marine. And he didn't "flip out with fear", but could feel the projected menace and corruption (or whatever).

The guy is just trying to tell an entertaining story and unfortunately, his imagination is restricted by a pre-existing universe and a fan base made up largely of unimaginative nerds who criticize everything that wasn't handed to them as canon. Give the guy a break.

How about no? You can't excuse transformer tanks or basic discrepancies (spore mines? may as well say the emperor was a grot) with "oh his imagination was restricted". Anyway, that portion is mostly the fault of the non-existent editor who should have kept him in line on such basics. That said, I have little respect for an author unwilling to do the most basic research into his topic.

So quit censoring our hate. And get a haircut, hippy.

What about SoBs riding giant war bats?

the Legolas bits may have been a little OTT, but they at least didn't derail/completely fly in the face of the established cannon.

now if it had been Gimli or Aragorn then i would complain.

Kilkrazy wrote:What about SoBs riding giant war bats?

YES.

Ahhhh memories...... of mamorys.... and my first "beaver pelt" sighting.

feels good, man.
Need more badass minis of unreasonable cavalry.

LOL, dude! That is being Sigged!

I have been waiting for so long for an excuse to use this one:


I am finally glad the day has come.

OMGWTFGODAMMITSOMUCH!!! That is freakin' awesome...!!!...

....Unlike anything written by C.S. Goto.

Gotta keep the thread on track! (I did brofist it though.)

One day, I hope Goto reads the canon stuff. I hope be repents, realising that what he did was shocking, writes one single gloriously redeeming novel, and leaves with his head held high.

That will be a good day.

BossBig'un wrote:@ Guitardian - No need for hostility or smarmyism...

I am sure you feel ( an everyone will agree) that your "Old citadel lead figure" over-rules all the cannon out for the space marines. But I don't think that it would, unless it does, and if so, then I would need to see some documents on it!

I mean I am all for home-brewed rules... but publishing something is different than saying "this marine has a shruiken catapult he uses as a weapon as it was a trophy take from a far-seer who he killed in single coabt with a Power Spoon as he waited in line for chow..." and that being the reason you use the weapon profile instead of his normal bolter... whatever.. it is a game.

But when you publish something, it is saying "this has our corporation's stamp of approval." It means something.

I have a football with a clown glued to it....that doesn't mean that the NFL is going to play a game with a marrionette adhered to the ole pigskin.

Do you think so?

First off... it's spelled 'Canon'. That is not a typo. A Cannon is something that shoots, a Canon is collection of revered works. Okay nitpick aside, If they made a figure for it, then it existed. I played Rogue Trader where everything just had a points cost. I had an Ogryn Mighty Hero with a missile launcher in each hand and a psychic hood if I wanted it, too. I frequently had imperial assassins working with swooping hawk exarch carrying a bright lance or a shrieker cannon or web or whatever... you get the idea.

This was before they wanted to streamline the game away from the roleplaying/storyline kind of aspects and into the realm of what could be vaguely described as a nerdhammer rules-lawyering attempt to streamline it into a more understandable tournament format. This is all fine and dandy and I can accept the changes, but the FACT that someone went and modelled that fig for Citadel and they produced it, back when the rules weren't so tight, means that yeah... it is concievable for a SM to pick up a xenos weapon, learn to use it, and want to keep it. Perhaps not in a game, but as far as fiction is concerned, anything goes.

Incidentally, the second squad in the new Space Hulk is invalid. Sarge can't have his thunderhammer, sorry. Does anyone complain? NO. Because his backstory explains why he still keeps his TH/SS. Is this such an affront to GW caNon?

And Rogue Trader is no longer "canon".

Space Marines are no longer crazed convicts bolted into their power armor fighting for their freedom, but genetically engineered superhumans who feel no emotions outside of faith in the Emperor and the Imperium.

That's part of them evolving the background from just "fantasy themes--in SPACEFUTURE!", and making their own setting/intellectual property.

Gettin' rather heated in here. TBH I kinda agree w/ guitardian. The fluff is always changing. Why not? and sure, he wrote some stupid sounding stuff, but at least he wrote it semi-coherently. Riding atop a razorback is probably inspired by what american GIs did in vietnam: they rode atop their troop transports, out of the safety of the armor because A), it was hot inside the APCs, B), the viet cong would steal landmines and detonate landmines or random explosions buried in the road to kill the soldiers inside due to insufficient armor on the bottom, and C), the VC would rarely to a full frontal assault on a large convoy of soldiers. /endofftopicrant. I personally wouldn't do it, I'd be too afraid of the razorback turret shooting me!

But it sounds cheesy/cool, aka what most fluff is.

And is marines with multilazors really that bad? Space marines using an imperium weapon that they don't normally use? What about the "Soul Drinkers" series, where one of the characters has some sort of rivet shooting gun, and when he hits a necron warrior, it damages it so bad that the warriors body doesn't dissappear? Was that "realistic or fitting in with the current fluff"?

You know Guitardian, if you keep being snarky, nobody will like talking to you.
It's interesting that you bring up rogue trader here, too, despite most of that fluff being retconned. Also, there is a difference between a guy using an illegal loadout of weaponry he has actual access to, and a guy robbing the bodies of dead aliens for ammo because the Imperium doesn't produce eldar shurikens. In addition, you have also conveniently ignored the Imperium's massive anti-alien doctrines, something that even the Marines believe to be a good idea.

micahaphone wrote:Gettin' rather heated in here. TBH I kinda agree w/ guitardian. The fluff is always changing. Why not? and sure, he wrote some stupid sounding stuff, but at least he wrote it semi-coherently. Riding atop a razorback is probably inspired by what american GIs did in vietnam: they rode atop their troop transports, out of the safety of the armor because A), it was hot inside the APCs, B), the viet cong would steal landmines and detonate landmines or random explosions buried in the road to kill the soldiers inside due to insufficient armor on the bottom, and C), the VC would rarely to a full frontal assault on a large convoy of soldiers. /endofftopicrant. I personally wouldn't do it, I'd be too afraid of the razorback turret shooting me!

Difference is that a Space Marine is the exception to the rule when it comes to open/close topped vehicles. And the "it's too hot" thing...that's ridiculous. Actual, established canon(read: anything not written by C.S. Goto) states that Power Armour actually regulates the temperature of the individual inside.

And is marines with multilazors really that bad? Space marines using an imperium weapon that they don't normally use? What about the "Soul Drinkers" series, where one of the characters has some sort of rivet shooting gun, and when he hits a necron warrior, it damages it so bad that the warriors body doesn't dissappear? Was that "realistic or fitting in with the current fluff"?

Soul Drinkers series was written by Ben Counter, who is regarded just as poorly as C.S. Goto for the most part.

And hey, guess what?
Seemingly also not employed by Black Library anymore! Last novel was April 2009 with nothing, at all, upcoming(and the publishing schedule is available to look at up to May, 2011).